I would gag if I would have anything to do with such genocide....
...gladly I don't, nor do I congratulate those of you who have participated to such an act.
How does the intent of the meme have anything to do with murdering 40,000 civilians? You must be much better at seeing what you want out of things than I.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: pipz on May 24, 2015, 06:46:20 AM
Why is her bed humble? Does it subscribe to the ways of Buddhism or just naturally enlightened? :headscratch:
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: pipz on May 24, 2015, 07:01:03 AM
After further consideration I wonder what Jesus would say .....
Jesus said, "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy; But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those whose persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Mt. 5.43-46
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: Wmaker on May 24, 2015, 07:14:38 AM
How does the intent of the meme have anything to do with murdering 40,000 civilians? You must be much better at seeing what you want out of things than I.
Well, that's the last big war of the country that the said person would be part of. Simply as that.
Sorry about my figures....they were a bit of the low side: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War_documents_leak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War_documents_leak)
Like I said, I'm so glad I have zero to do with it. Disgusting.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: BuckShot on May 24, 2015, 09:37:45 AM
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 24, 2015, 10:06:45 AM
Whenever someone says 'what would Jesus do' I try to remind them that flipping tables and chasing people with a whip is within the possibilities.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: Widewing on May 24, 2015, 10:08:15 AM
Why does casting pearls before swine seem so fitting to the garbage heap this thread has become?
Skuzzy, lock this thread as nothing good will follow.....
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: pembquist on May 24, 2015, 11:54:09 AM
It is a powerful meme and I hesitate to comment as being powerful it is polarizing and emotional. I would love to believe that all of America's best qualities were honed to a spear point dropped from the air to fight righteous battle against evil enemies persecuting weak innocents. but I simply cannot and I feel that such simplification, while appealing, is dishonest and does not honor the complex, dirty, and morally ambiguous nature of the world. Would that it were so and that we could be righteous samurai, but it isn't and we cannot.
My opinion.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: FBKampfer on May 24, 2015, 12:17:57 PM
Not only that, Pembquist, but such simplifications are dangerous as well.
Granted it's going in the opposite direction, but it was a simplification of thinking that allowed the holocaust.
Now I'm not saying this necessarily will lead to a second holocaust, but it could lead to a second tier of citizenship (something which, while already in place for all practical purposes, does violate the very principal of equality which stands as one of our core tennents.
People thinking in terms of simplification are people thinking stupid. And the stupid are easy to manipulate.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on May 24, 2015, 12:20:28 PM
It's indeed a naïve chest thumper meme. Still cool. :aok
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: rabbidrabbit on May 24, 2015, 12:48:03 PM
Well, that's the last big war of the country that the said person would be part of. Simply as that.
Sorry about my figures....they were a bit of the low side: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War_documents_leak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War_documents_leak)
Like I said, I'm so glad I have zero to do with it. Disgusting.
You make some remarkable leaps without regard to logic or decency simply for the convenience of serving your shallow self righteous arrogance. Your statements are indeed profound and detract from your humanity in that you say what you want to serve your agenda without any respect for truth. Maybe at some point you will achieve the level of self respect necessary to understand that how you treat others is reflective of you far more than them. There is simply no relationship between this meme and your agenda.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: pipz on May 24, 2015, 12:51:07 PM
You make some remarkable leaps without regard to logic or decency simply for the convenience of serving your shallow self righteous arrogance. Your statements are indeed profound and detract from your humanity in that you say what you want to serve your agenda without any respect for truth. Maybe at some point you will achieve the level of self respect necessary to understand that how you treat others is reflective of you far more than them. There is simply no relationship between this meme and your agenda.
You find killing innocent people a-ok, I personally don't like the idea too much, regardless if one wears an uniform or flies a plane into a building without one.
I don't see any need to have respect for those who kill innocent civillians "just to be on the safe side".
No respect, none what so ever.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: rabbidrabbit on May 24, 2015, 01:46:25 PM
You find killing innocent people a-ok, I personally don't like the idea too much, regardless if one wears an uniform or flies a plane into a building without one.
I don't see any need to have respect for those who kill innocent civillians "just to be on the safe side".
No respect, none what so ever.
Where does it advocate " those who kill innocent civillians "just to be on the safe side"." ?? No where.
These statements have what to do with the subject? To an honest mind, absolutely nothing. You are creating connections where they do not exist beyond your own contrivances and are the product of your personal weakness. Have enough respect for yourself to not reveal them to the world as it will most likely come back to undermine you in the future.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 24, 2015, 01:58:18 PM
Anyone glorifying war is an idiot. No way around it.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: Wmaker on May 24, 2015, 01:59:25 PM
Where does it advocate " those who kill innocent civillians "just to be on the safe side"." ?? No where.
These statements have what to do with the subject? To an honest mind, absolutely nothing. You are creating connections where they do not exist beyond your own contrivances and are the product of your personal weakness. Have enough respect for yourself to not reveal them to the world as it will most likely come back to undermine you in the future.
My personal weakness? Right... :rofl
Like I said, no other country has performed such a genocide in the 21st century. The picture which started this thread had a pretty clear picture of an american equipped paratrooper in it. Considering the events on this millenuim, I commented the meme as I saw fit. Again (may not be simple to you though), simple as that. And, as I said, I'm glad I have nothing to do with such genocide.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: FBKampfer on May 24, 2015, 02:08:24 PM
You make some remarkable leaps without regard to logic or decency simply for the convenience of serving your shallow self righteous arrogance. Your statements are indeed profound and detract from your humanity in that you say what you want to serve your agenda without any respect for truth. Maybe at some point you will achieve the level of self respect necessary to understand that how you treat others is reflective of you far more than them. There is simply no relationship between this meme and your agenda.
Don't attack widdow as a person, and address his points. Just because he's stepped on your Murica boner doesn't necessarily make him wrong.
US soldiers are hardly perfect, and definely not agents of god. At least not any god worthy of believing in. But if you feel that way, back it up! Show the righteousness and holy infallibility of the US soldier! Disprove any false accusations of failure and wrongdoing against him!
Because that's exactly what it will take. "Murica and our freedom!!! Mc Donalds! Koch Brothers!" is no longer an acceptable argument against anything and everything you want to throw it at.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: Mar on May 24, 2015, 02:18:21 PM
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: rabbidrabbit on May 24, 2015, 02:31:00 PM
It's hard to say whether he is trolling or just an arrogant bigot. I suppose it does not really matter. Either way does more to undermine his character than I can do.
I agree that that no person is perfect but none of his points have anything to do with the meme. If you think I'm pounding the 'Murica drum, you are wrong. One can easily fault the leadership for mishandling the invasion and attempt to rebuild Iraq. My issue is with his broad reaching claims that have nothing to do with the subject. He derailed the thread for his own personal weakness to include arrogance and bigoted broad judgements that are so broad as to be categorical statements when a honest person would understand such absolutes are impossible and greatly insulting to those swept with said wide brush.
Do you really believe that I " find killing innocent people a-ok" from my statements? Obviously not. Do you really believe that the US engaged in systemic genocide in Iraq? No honest person would make those statements. You could argue that the US intervention in Iraq unintentionally brought about opportunity for those with genocidal intentions to operate in the theater. You could also argue that innocent people died as the result of the intervention? Sure, but again, this is nothing near his accusations which again, have nothing to do with the meme posted which shows a soldier jumping into a situation to presumably aide and innocent child who is hoping for salvation. That's all it shows. The rest of this thread is contrived crap.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: FBKampfer on May 24, 2015, 02:51:06 PM
No it wasn't systematic genocide, but his point was that the meme is a toejamty joke for probably more people than its accurate for. But in the states we ignore that as an inconvenience standing in the way of our idealized image of the American soldier. We really have glorified the military almost as bad as Hitler did, and it worries me.
Do we need to respect our soldiers? Of course. They've agreed to lay down their lives for us if the need arises. But we seem incapable of realizing that not EVERY death is in defense of the US, and her people. More often than not lately, it's been in defense of the dollar. Perhaps it's because people can't stand the thought that their brothers and sons are dying for an awful cause, and so they HAVE to ignore the bad for their own mental and emotional wellbeing.
But the problem is that because they justify that awful cause, our leadership has not reason to alter course. There is nothing inherently good, virtuous, or sacred about the United States or our leaders or system and of government. If it doesn't best serve the greatest number of people, we need to change it. But it won't happen until people start to think critically about the assumptions they've been indoctrinated with since birth.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: rabbidrabbit on May 24, 2015, 03:11:11 PM
I generally agree with much of your position but you can surely see the difference between what you posted and his actions which were no better than the worst of which he has such high contempt for. Such broad judgements are greatly bigoted against those who sacrificed so much to make the best of an imperfect situation.
He chose to hijack this thread to spout such bigotry with blatant disregard for the original poster and this message board.
It's been fun and again, for the record, none of this has much of anything to do with the original post.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: Wmaker on May 24, 2015, 03:30:42 PM
And, as I said, there's thousandths upon thousands of them. And that is the quite of an big 'elephant' in this 'room' (this bbs) which no one has said anything about. There's a huge number of civilians in Iraq that have been killed for every US life. The difference in those numbers is so huge that, it cannot be considered anything but genocide...again, as simple as that. It is not "criminal negligence". Tens of thousands of civilians. Again, I'm glad I have no part in it.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: ink on May 24, 2015, 03:33:50 PM
I generally agree with much of your position but you can surely see the difference between what you posted and his actions which were no better than the worst of which he has such high contempt for. Such broad judgements are greatly bigoted against those who sacrificed so much to make the best of an imperfect situation.
He chose to hijack this thread to spout such bigotry with blatant disregard for the original poster and this message board.
It's been fun and again, for the record, none of this has much of anything to do with the original post.
I took it to be a criticism of the United States in general, not of our soldiers in particular. When you get down to it, it's our fault 40000+ are dead. We elected the halfwits that botched the conflict in every possible manner, and then did nothing to demand they atone for their mistakes.
Even worse, we're also letting them worm their way out of the debt they owe the veterans themselves. We have veterans with PTSD being left untreated, being kept in the service until they act out, and can then be dishonorably discharged with no benefits, being kept from the care they need by Golly-geen bureaucracy.
We as a country have failed miserably to responsibly act as a wold power, and in the debt we owe our own soldiers, and allies. It's obscene how selfish and complacent we've grown.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: FBKampfer on May 24, 2015, 03:35:15 PM
And, as I said, there's thousandths upon thousands of them. And that is the quite of an big 'elephant' in this 'room' (this bbs) which no one has said anything about. There's a huge number of civilians in Iraq that have been killed for every US life. The difference in those numbers is so huge that, it cannot be considered anything but genocide...again, as simple as that. It is not "criminal negligence". Tens of thousands of civilians. Again, I'm glad I have no part of in it.
What does that have to do with the original post? It does not say anything about the nationality of the soldier. It only implies that part of a soldiers duty is to try to protect the innocent. I'm sorry you disagree with that but whether you like it or not, many soldiers have gone far out of their way to protect innocents.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: ink on May 24, 2015, 03:44:59 PM
but whether you like it or not, many soldiers have gone far out of their way to protect innocents.
For sure, but they tend to have different nationality than what is depicted in the said 'meme'. As I said, the ones that carry the fatigue and equipment in the pic tend to kill a lot of civillians (as per the statistics I provided). I'm just not a big fan of killers of civillians. And that is what US does best.....considering a few tens of years....
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: Volron on May 24, 2015, 03:47:01 PM
This is funny. A LOT of people read FAR TOO DAMN MUCH into it than it should've been.
I'll tell you what I saw; A neat poster that had a little too much religious tag to it for my liking, but was a bit funny anyway. Nothing more. Someone pointed out that it's symbolism, and it is. I merely agreed to that. Doesn't mean I back it.
Some of you are being complete idiots about it, and are really only using it to vent your frustration that it is against whatever it is you believe in.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: rabbidrabbit on May 24, 2015, 03:51:05 PM
For sure, but they tend to have different nationality than what is depicted in the said 'meme'. As I said, the ones that carry the fatigue and equipment in the pic tend to kill a lot of civillians (as per the statistics I provided). I'm just not a big fan of killers of civillians. And that is what US does.
I'll try again. How does the meme indicate anything other than it's a soldiers duty to help the innocent? Where does it even say the soldiers nationality? I must have missed that because I don't see any nationality defined. That is your assumption to support your bias coming into the discussion. I'm not talking about your political points of view. Taking it for what it is, how do you necessarily come to your conclusion or did you bring your prior prejudice ( stated in your reply ) into this thread?
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: FBKampfer on May 24, 2015, 03:53:27 PM
really...well maybe you should do a bit of research :cheers:
I know everyone likes to think they cant be wrong....but I can prove "jesus" is not his original name..... and I can prove what his original name was.
the KJV bible came out in 1611...the word "jesus" is no where in it...instead the name Isous(sp?) is there which is a Greek translation of Yeshua.
those are facts so open your eyes or believe the lies your choice.
edit
and BTW Gods name really isn't "The LORD" ;)
Not quite what I meant. You're reading too much into a fantasy novel. What your favorite character was called in the original print doesn't really matter, so long as the writing stays consistent.
Now that that's out of the way, shall we drop the religion topic? I understand that you feel strongly about it, but this is really not the place.
If you like, we can continue it via PM.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: Wmaker on May 24, 2015, 03:54:43 PM
vent your frustration that it is against whatever it is you believe in.
Yes, it is bad to be against killing people....to a point I even agree...but we have to take into consideration that there are far too many people on this planet. But the question is...where you would start reducing them? We can't start from you, I'm sure, right?
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: ink on May 24, 2015, 03:59:23 PM
Not quite what I meant. You're reading too much into a fantasy novel. What your favorite character was called in the original print doesn't really matter, so long as the writing stays consistent.
Now that that's out of the way, shall we drop the religion topic? I understand that you feel strongly about it, but this is really not the place.
For sure, but they tend to have different nationality than what is depicted in the said 'meme'. As I said, the ones that carry the fatigue and equipment in the pic tend to kill a lot of civillians (as per the statistics I provided). I'm just not a big fan of killers of civillians. And that is what US does best.....considering a few tens of years....
Of course when you consider the last hundred years instead of the last few "tens of years," you realize we do other things best, like saving the world from a bunch of dictatorships started on your part of the globe and finishing wars you guys should have taken care of yourself.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: Wmaker on May 24, 2015, 04:11:08 PM
Of course when you consider the last hundred years instead of the last few "tens of years," you realize we do other things best, like saving the world from a bunch of dictatorships started on your part of the globe and finishing wars you guys should have taken care of yourself.
Bwahahhahhahahahaa.... :rofl :rofl Sorry that the statistics won't support you retarted view of this world. :) No boubt, with your ethics and 'morals' you'd like to nuke it down, though.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: Wmaker on May 24, 2015, 04:16:12 PM
Of course when you consider the last hundred years instead of the last few "tens of years,"
As for considering the last big decade instead of the whole evolution of a human race....well, I'd like to think humankind should move forward in general. Some countries just do it faster than some police states...
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: FBKampfer on May 24, 2015, 04:17:16 PM
im sorry hold on while I :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl some more.
no seriously.... :rofl
ok....... ok........ I will stop..... :o
I would gladly talk to you about it...but it seems like your mind is completely closed to the idea.
I used to be open to the idea, I used to be a devout Catholic. But now I'm an atheists. I see no evidence of a god, nor would I accept one if there were. But to be clear, the later is for humanist reasons, not for any love of debauchery and immorality.
If you can convince me, I'll immediately adjust my thinking. I welcome you to try and convince me, but I am skeptical of your ability to actually try and argue your position, instead of just telling me your personal anecdotes and telling me the good god has brought into your life.
If you still wish to talk, I leave you with the opening move.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: Wmaker on May 24, 2015, 04:24:35 PM
I used to be open to the idea, I used to be a devout Catholic. But now I'm an atheists. I see no evidence of a god, nor would I accept one if there were. But to be clear, the later is for humanist reasons, not for any love of debauchery and immorality.
If you can convince me, I'll immediately adjust my thinking. I welcome you to try and convince me, but I am skeptical of your ability to actually try and argue your position, instead of just telling me your personal anecdotes and telling me the good god has brought into your life.
If you still wish to talk, I leave you with the opening move.
I agree you Kamfer as far as the whole thread is concerned but I'm guessing that the religion part will get it locked. :( You might have time to edit it (if you are so inclined).
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: mbailey on May 24, 2015, 04:25:50 PM
Thanks for posting Widewing. I'm sorry your well meaning post turned into this. I enjoyed it immensely. :salute
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: Volron on May 24, 2015, 04:43:57 PM
Yes, it is bad to be against killing people....to a point I even agree...but we have to take into consideration that there are far too many people on this planet. But the question is...where you would start reducing them? We can't start from you, I'm sure, right?
Again, you read far too much into it. You are the one who decided to turn it into this kind of conversation, not I. You were the one who was quick to label it a genocide poster. You believe it to represent genocide, and someone argued against that, hence: vent your frustration that it is against whatever it is you believe in. But it appears by the time you replied to my post, you hadn't noticed that the thread dove into religion as well. It would also apply to them as well. Granted, I shouldn't have used such blanket wording in that last bit, because for some reason you seem to think I'm Hitler.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: ink on May 24, 2015, 04:46:11 PM
I used to be open to the idea, I used to be a devout Catholic. But now I'm an atheists. I see no evidence of a god, nor would I accept one if there were. But to be clear, the later is for humanist reasons, not for any love of debauchery and immorality.
If you can convince me, I'll immediately adjust my thinking. I welcome you to try and convince me, but I am skeptical of your ability to actually try and argue your position, instead of just telling me your personal anecdotes and telling me the good god has brought into your life.
If you still wish to talk, I leave you with the opening move.
if it was you wouldn't admit it... :D
but you will have a PM coming :cheers:
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: Wmaker on May 24, 2015, 05:20:36 PM
You were the one who was quick to label it a genocide poster. You believe it to represent genocide, and someone argued against that, hence: vent your frustration that it is against whatever it is you believe in.
I really don't care about the poster one way or the other, I just aren't a big fan of genocides...
...nor am I a big fan of war porn...I really don't care how you take it. :)
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: Skyyr on May 24, 2015, 05:30:20 PM
Well this evolved quickly.
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: FLOOB on May 24, 2015, 05:45:08 PM
Welp, I just aren't a big believer of war porn. Especially when the country in question has killed tens of thousands of civillians.
I really don't care about the poster one way or the other, I just aren't a big fan of genocides...
...nor am I a big fan of war porn...I really don't care how you take it. :)
Then you should've flat out said it, instead of the round about way you went. :) Straight and to the point would've been better, instead of it turning into a fiasco. :aok
Title: Re: Powerful meme....
Post by: Oldman731 on May 24, 2015, 05:54:25 PM