Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: darkzking on June 09, 2015, 02:12:15 PM

Title: Collision Model
Post by: darkzking on June 09, 2015, 02:12:15 PM
We need a different topic now. Somebody make a new thread about collision model. We didn't have that for a while  :old:
It Sucks! :noid
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Beefcake on June 09, 2015, 02:22:30 PM
It's great! It works perfectly given the current level of technology and internet communication speed.  :aok
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 09, 2015, 02:24:53 PM
It Sucks! :noid

Truth be told, it's not the collision model that sucks.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Mitchell on June 09, 2015, 03:13:59 PM
The collision model is perfect, you hit an enemy plane you get damaged.
The only people who don't like it are those that don't understand it.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Lusche on June 09, 2015, 03:15:21 PM
It Sucks! :noid

Thank you.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Scca on June 10, 2015, 11:22:56 AM
The collision model is perfect, you hit an enemy plane you get damaged.
The only people who don't like it are those that don't understand it.
+1

It's great! It works perfectly given the current level of technology and internet communication speed.  :aok
Also +1
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Latrobe on June 10, 2015, 11:50:30 AM
I get collisions with planes that flew no where near me :(
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Lusche on June 10, 2015, 11:54:48 AM
I get collisions with planes that flew no where near me :(

They get collisions, and the resulting collision mesage is "XYZ has collided with you."
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Copprhed on June 10, 2015, 12:09:18 PM
I get collisions with planes that flew no where near me :(
It's because you're so awesome that your aura is actually colliding with the other plane! :joystick:
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Latrobe on June 10, 2015, 12:40:55 PM
They get collisions, and the resulting collision mesage is "XYZ has collided with you."

Yes, and I lose the wing and die while they fly away undamaged  :(
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Wiley on June 10, 2015, 12:46:58 PM
Yes, and I lose the wing and die while they fly away undamaged  :(

If you've got film of that, I'd love to see it, and I know HT has in the past made changes based on a collision film that showed something like that.  I believe it was someone going head on in a deuce with a B17 (basically the worst case scenario for the collision model) showed something they fixed.

They're fairly adamant about the WYS(on your end)IWYG on the collisions.

If it said 'XYZ has collided with you.', you didn't get 'You have collided with XYZ.' and you took damage, far more likely to be gun damage just before they collided on their end that didn't give you a noticeable sound for whatever reason.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Lusche on June 10, 2015, 01:17:13 PM
Yes, and I lose the wing and die while they fly away undamaged  :(

When you don't get "You have collided" but get damage, they shot you.
Furtheremore, just because you don't see them having damage doesn't mean they actually don't have any. Occasionally I lose something odd like a gear from a collision. But I can't remember any collision (where I actually collided) without any damage at all.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Wiley on June 10, 2015, 01:59:07 PM
When you don't get "You have collided" but get damage, they shot you.
Furtheremore, just because you don't see them having damage doesn't mean they actually don't have any. Occasionally I lose something odd like a gear from a collision. But I can't remember any collision (where I actually collided) without any damage at all.

Gear, guns...  Plenty of invisible options.

The one that happens to me fairly often that I'd really like looked into, is when I get a collision and lose an aileron.  How on Earth does an aileron take damage without shearing the wing?  It has happened to me often enough that I refuse to believe every time I was doing something like rolling away from him, his plane went under my wing, and ONLY touched the aileron to his aircraft.

It never bugged me enough to film unfortunately, but I'm fairly sure I could reproduce it within a few tries if it were desired.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Latrobe on June 10, 2015, 02:23:56 PM
If you've got film of that, I'd love to see it, and I know HT has in the past made changes based on a collision film that showed something like that.  I believe it was someone going head on in a deuce with a B17 (basically the worst case scenario for the collision model) showed something they fixed.

They're fairly adamant about the WYS(on your end)IWYG on the collisions.

If it said 'XYZ has collided with you.', you didn't get 'You have collided with XYZ.' and you took damage, far more likely to be gun damage just before they collided on their end that didn't give you a noticeable sound for whatever reason.

Wiley.

When I have it happen again then I'll be sure to save the film. I know it happens quite frequently when I'm upping. An enemy plane will come in for a vulch attempt, miss badly, he doesn't pull up until the very last second, passes over me and then I get a collision message! How can I be the one doing the colliding when my engine isn't even spun up yet? There was even an incident one day where me and an enemy flew right through each others on both of our screens and neither of us got a collision message. You can even see this happen in my WW1 video on youtube. An enemy plane pulls up into me from below, flies through my plane, but there is no collision detection.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Lusche on June 10, 2015, 02:30:28 PM
When I have it happen again then I'll be sure to save the film. I know it happens quite frequently when I'm upping. An enemy plane will come in for a vulch attempt, miss badly, he doesn't pull up until the very last second, passes over me and then I get a collision message! How can I be the one doing the colliding when my engine isn't even spun up yet?

What has the engine to do with that? And what message exactly? There are two with very different meanings...
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Latrobe on June 10, 2015, 02:34:12 PM
The "You have Collided" message that says "Hey! You ran into this guy! Take some damage!"
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Lusche on June 10, 2015, 02:36:31 PM
The "You have Collided" message that says "Hey! You ran into this guy! Take some damage!"

It doesn't say "you ran into this guy"
It mereley notifies you there has been a collision on your front end. Not that you caused it.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 10, 2015, 02:37:19 PM
Why do people have such a difficult time in grasping the very simple concept of how collisions are modeled in this game?  It's not like it's some complex system that only a rocket scientist has any chance of figuring out. 

ack-ack
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Lusche on June 10, 2015, 02:44:43 PM
Why do people have such a difficult time in grasping the very simple concept of how collisions are modeled in this game? 

For many it's difficult to understand/accept that there are two differing 'realities' involved on two computers.

I remember a discussion with a German player many years ago, he really tried to understand the concept but simply couldn't wrap his mind around it.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Skuzzy on June 10, 2015, 02:51:45 PM
The term "collision" causes most people to go down a prescribed path of knowledge they are comfortable with.  Most immediately look for fault as to who caused it because that is what we learn growing up.  If there is a collision, someone must be at fault.

If it was not so unwieldy, it would be better to call it "an attempt, by multiple objects, to intersect with each other".
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: hgtonyvi on June 10, 2015, 02:58:32 PM
In the next update please make both planes go down.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Wiley on June 10, 2015, 03:02:01 PM
In the next update please make both planes go down.

No, please don't.  I have no desire to watch another aircraft fly past me without touching me and have parts of my plane fly off for no reason.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Aspen on June 10, 2015, 03:21:54 PM
I can't come up with a better solution than what we have.  Yes, it stinks when a guy dives in and flys through your slow plane, you get the message (and damage) and he flys home. But on his end, he didn't fly through your plane so penalizing him isn't fair.

The only thing I see wrong with it is that Im guessing we survive way more collisions than real pilots did.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Dragon Tamer on June 10, 2015, 03:24:06 PM
The term "collision" causes most people to go down a prescribed path of knowledge they are comfortable with.  Most immediately look for fault as to who caused it because that is what we learn growing up.  If there is a collision, someone must be at fault.

If it was not so unwieldy, it would be better to call it "an attempt, by multiple objects, to intersect with each other".

"Two objects tried to occupy the same space at the same time."
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Randy1 on June 10, 2015, 03:27:52 PM
The other guy gets the kill nearly 80% of the time in my collisions incidents.  Not sure if the P-38 size or any plane size figures into the crash model.  Can't say I have ever been hit in a bomber by a fighter but I have hit the bomber in my fighter and went down.

The problem is when you are close and at speed, what you see is not always what you get.   





Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: ink on June 10, 2015, 03:29:21 PM
No, please don't.  I have no desire to watch another aircraft fly past me without touching me and have parts of my plane fly off for no reason.

Wiley.


seconded  :aok
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Skyyr on June 10, 2015, 03:29:33 PM
I can't come up with a better solution than what we have.  Yes, it stinks when a guy dives in and flys through your slow plane, you get the message (and damage) and he flys home. But on his end, he didn't fly through your plane so penalizing him isn't fair.

The only thing I see wrong with it is that Im guessing we survive way more collisions than real pilots did.

The only complaint I have with it is, sometimes, I want to ram the other guy to down him (e.g. my radiator is damaged several grids into enemy territory, I'm out of ammo, and there's someone heading straight at me, so my only choice is to try to force a collision). With the natural delay in position reporting, it can make this difficult.

Overall, though, it works out nicely.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 10, 2015, 04:12:16 PM
In the next update please make both planes go down.

Why should my plane go down if I didn't collide?
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Zoney on June 10, 2015, 04:19:06 PM
I am absolutely convinced that those who ask for the collision model to change do not understand how it works or the limits the internet has.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Wiley on June 10, 2015, 04:21:32 PM
I am absolutely convinced that those who ask for the collision model to change do not understand how it works or the limits the internet has.

Not entirely true.  I've seen 2 guys over the years that appeared to understand it, and still wanted it that way.

I didn't understand how they could think that way, but that was how they felt.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Mitchell on June 10, 2015, 07:48:46 PM
Not entirely true.  I've seen 2 guys over the years that appeared to understand it, and still wanted it that way.

I didn't understand how they could think that way, but that was how they felt.

Wiley.

Maybe they suck so badly that all they do is HO and get themselves killed in collisions which they would like to see there other guy die from also?
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: vHACKv on June 11, 2015, 12:02:15 PM
This old thing will help clarify the collision argument
(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y313/LittleGeorgeJr/collision1.png)
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Scca on June 12, 2015, 10:18:10 AM
Why should my plane go down if I didn't collide?
... waits for the "because in real life...." answer. 

I wish there was for just a day that both would go down so I could watch the hilarity.  Much would be from the very people who WANT that model. 
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: mussie on June 12, 2015, 05:54:50 PM
Somewhere a programmer is rocking in the fetal position.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: DREDIOCK on June 12, 2015, 09:47:06 PM
If you've got film of that, I'd love to see it, and I know HT has in the past made changes based on a collision film that showed something like that.  I believe it was someone going head on in a deuce with a B17 (basically the worst case scenario for the collision model) showed something they fixed.

They're fairly adamant about the WYS(on your end)IWYG on the collisions.

If it said 'XYZ has collided with you.', you didn't get 'You have collided with XYZ.' and you took damage, far more likely to be gun damage just before they collided on their end that didn't give you a noticeable sound for whatever reason.

Wiley.

I've had it happen to me as well as recently as two nights ago. And it does seemingly happen fairly regularly. Though I cant really say the other plane is completely undamaged as I had no access to the other plane. They may have lost a tail wheel or something. I dont know. I do know I see them fly off,fight,get and land kills after my plane has been cleaved in two.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Karnak on June 13, 2015, 07:01:19 AM
I've had it happen to me as well as recently as two nights ago. And it does seemingly happen fairly regularly. Though I cant really say the other plane is completely undamaged as I had no access to the other plane. They may have lost a tail wheel or something. I dont know. I do know I see them fly off,fight,get and land kills after my plane has been cleaved in two.
Even if both collide they do not necessarily suffer the same collision, so in your example his tail wheel isn't what tore you in half.  It is that you collided with a major structure, wing or such, on your FE and on his FE his tail wheel clipped your aircraft.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: DREDIOCK on June 13, 2015, 08:55:34 PM
Even if both collide they do not necessarily suffer the same collision, so in your example his tail wheel isn't what tore you in half.  It is that you collided with a major structure, wing or such, on your FE and on his FE his tail wheel clipped your aircraft.

Oh I understand how it works. Im just saying it does happen that you and someone else will collide in a way that does send you to the turf while the other guy flies off and continues to fight seemingly unscathed.

Collisions can be annoying that way. even if you know how it works.
The most annoying ones are the ones where someone climbs up MY 6 and Im the only one that gets a collision.

You can see where there might be some frustration there. Your tooling around flying straight and true, even on autopilot and suddenly you collide with someone behind you
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Scca on June 13, 2015, 10:18:03 PM
You can see where there might be some frustration there. Your tooling around flying straight and true, even on autopilot and suddenly you collide with someone behind you

Is this a frequent occurance? Ya, it happens, but I can't even recall when to me.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Rich46yo on June 13, 2015, 10:51:23 PM

Is this a frequent occurance? Ya, it happens, but I can't even recall when to me.

Oh it happens. Its happened to me in bombers. At first I was left there wondering how in hell I could collide with a fighter that ran into the back of my bomber when we were flying in the same direction and he ran into my rear at twice my speed?

Now? Ive learned to grasp the realities and limitations of the internet. Even more so Ive learned to not care. I think in a 1 on 1 dog fight where the players in their fighters both try and avoid ramming each other there is a pretty fair approximation of a dog fight. If anything FPS's are even worse.
Title: Re: Collision Model
Post by: Scca on June 13, 2015, 11:40:15 PM
Oh it happens. Its happened to me in bombers. At first I was left there wondering how in hell I could collide with a fighter that ran into the back of my bomber when we were flying in the same direction and he ran into my rear at twice my speed?

Now? Ive learned to grasp the realities and limitations of the internet. Even more so Ive learned to not care. I think in a 1 on 1 dog fight where the players in their fighters both try and avoid ramming each other there is a pretty fair approximation of a dog fight. If anything FPS's are even worse.
99% of the time I die from my own stupidity. The other 1% to haxxors :)