Those pro-Russian rebels don't deserve praise a :salute given to them by the OP.
If they were US they'd be labeled terrorists. They're insurgents on a sovereign country.
Title: Re: We never
Post by: Zimme83 on June 23, 2015, 02:58:20 PM
Terrorist or freedom fighter is just a matter of whitch side u are on, a 100% subjective title.
Title: Re: We never
Post by: wpeters on June 23, 2015, 03:25:42 PM
I still respect a man for dying for what he believes in.
Title: Re: We never
Post by: Zimme83 on June 23, 2015, 03:30:54 PM
Even if he belives in the Islamic state?
Title: Re: We never
Post by: PR3D4TOR on June 23, 2015, 03:57:39 PM
Terrorist or freedom fighter, they're all (insert appropriate derogatory word here). Rotten fish smelling ones.
Title: Re: We never
Post by: Zoney on June 23, 2015, 04:48:48 PM
PR3D4TOR, in the late 1700's those are names the English would have called those who fought for and won in the "American Colonies" now referred to as the "United States", sir.
You are labeled a Terrorist if you lose.
You are called a Freedom Fighter if you win.
Nice language by the way.
Title: Re: We never
Post by: Swoop on June 23, 2015, 04:55:24 PM
Yep, damn colonials should learn their place....er, oh sorry, wrong forum. :bolt:
Title: Re: We never
Post by: PR3D4TOR on June 23, 2015, 04:55:38 PM
Yeah, but it takes a special kind of individual to be an insurgent/terrorist/freedom fighter.
Title: Re: We never
Post by: Zoney on June 23, 2015, 05:00:23 PM
Yeah, but it takes a special kind of individual to be an insurgent/terrorist/freedom fighter.
Yes but instead of the name you called them, they may have gone by name's like, Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton...............
Title: Re: We never
Post by: Zimme83 on June 23, 2015, 05:01:04 PM
There are a lot of reasons, some do it for the kick, some for the ideology, some just dont have anything better to do. Most people prob do it because they are poor and the armed group provides them with some food etc. (and if u join them they likley wont kill u)
Title: Re: We never
Post by: Skyyr on June 23, 2015, 05:02:02 PM
Yeah, but it takes a special kind of individual to be an insurgent/terrorist/freedom fighter.
A majority of Americans in the revolutionary war created and used tactics that we would now call "terrorism." Long-range sniping of officers on the battlefield (in a time when officers were not usually targeted); asymmetrical hit and run attacks; burning of homes and businesses that supported the English government and, in some cases, execution of British government employees (such as tax collectors).
The important takeaway is that calling someone a terrorist is little more than propaganda; what matters most is to what end the tactics are used for, and that no innocents, civilians, or those unable/unwilling to fight are harmed.
Title: Re: We never
Post by: PR3D4TOR on June 23, 2015, 05:05:49 PM
The majority of Americans in the revolutionary war created and used tactics that we would now call "terrorism." Long-range sniping of officers on the battlefield (in a time when officers were not usually targeted); asymmetrical hit and run attacks; burning of homes and businesses that supported the English government and, in some cases, execution of British government employees (such as tax collectors).
My point exactly. They were (insert appropriate derogatory word here).
Title: Re: We never
Post by: Zimme83 on June 23, 2015, 05:08:53 PM
Remember that when talking about terrorism we narrow it down a bit:
Quote
Terrorism is commonly defined as violent acts (or the threat of violent acts) intended to create fear (terror), perpetrated for an economic, religious, political, or ideological goal, and which deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (e.g., neutral military personnel or civilians).
So the term terrorism should not be used to label any kind of armed group, even if it is an enemy. The term is wildley misused dough.
Title: Re: We never
Post by: PR3D4TOR on June 23, 2015, 05:37:16 PM
Terrorism is as old as mankind itself. Any "definition" you can find has been written to single out someone and protect another.
Title: Re: We never
Post by: Scherf on June 23, 2015, 06:40:40 PM
It's what happens when cultural borders don't match administrative borders.
Title: Re: We never
Post by: wpeters on June 23, 2015, 08:32:49 PM
Guess it just struck me how he was preparing for battle. In his mind someone else was going ( well you know what I mean) within a hour his body was growing cold.. just gave me that goose bump feeling at how fragile and uncretain life is.
Title: Re: We never
Post by: BuckShot on June 24, 2015, 01:47:45 PM
So it looks like predator is actually a sheep.
Title: Re: We never
Post by: PR3D4TOR on June 24, 2015, 03:55:36 PM
Nah, I know I'd be a (insert appropriate derogatory word here) if it ever should come to that. I'm just not expecting people to glorify what I'd do regardless of whether my cause is just or not. I'm sure the ISIS (insert appropriate derogatory word here) are heroes to someone. Terrorism works.
Title: Re: We never
Post by: BuckShot on June 25, 2015, 11:30:43 AM
I see your point, but do not entirely agree.
If I could edit my Richard-cranium post above I would. I tried, but was unable to edit it.
~S~
Title: Re: We never
Post by: FBKampfer on June 25, 2015, 11:45:19 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: We never
Post by: Widewing on June 25, 2015, 01:00:16 PM
A majority of Americans in the revolutionary war created and used tactics that we would now call "terrorism."
A majority? Less than 15% of colonial Americans actively participated in the revolution. Tories committed as many acts of violence as the revolutionaries. It was a tit for tat, ever elevating the level of violence.
Title: Re: We never
Post by: PR3D4TOR on June 25, 2015, 01:05:32 PM
You said they were savages. Two other Germans they were heroes. My thought is, that any man who is willing to die for what he believes in is honorable to whatever cause he believes in. I am NOT supporting what they did. what day did. But i fine that when any man is willing to give up his life for whatever believe he has in I respect him.
Whether you think so or not it takes balls put yourself in harms way knowing that you could be killed. And to mean that takes an amazing amount of courage to go out and do it anyhow. Which in my book required respect.
Title: Re: We never
Post by: zack1234 on June 25, 2015, 03:27:13 PM
Nonsense!
They were led by nose to commit atrocities :old:
It took two world wars and two defeats for them to realise it was cheaper to make cars and sell them to daft people who thought they were getting something special.
The Germans have fantastic panzers today, but they don't use them just in case they mess the paint jobs up
Title: Re: We never
Post by: Mar on June 25, 2015, 05:35:08 PM
Willing to die, sure...
what about the ones willing to kill?
Title: Re: We never
Post by: PR3D4TOR on June 25, 2015, 05:57:19 PM
You know zack, there was a thread here a few years back where someone posted pictures of memorials all over eastern Europe (except Russia for obvious reasons) honoring SS soldiers. In some places even the Germans were seen as liberators.
You know zack, there was a thread here a few years back where someone posted pictures of memorials all over eastern Europe (except Russia for obvious reasons) honoring SS soldiers. In some places even the Germans were seen as liberators.
I dont buy the willing to die thing. people go to war willing to fight, perhaps willing to kill if they have to. but willing to die? I dont think so.
when I joined the marines way back then, I didnt join because I was willing to die. I joined because I was willing to fight, protect knew dying was a chance I took, but I sure as hell wasnt willing to die.
I dont think anybody that I knew back then that joined because they were willing to die. You know that is a risk you can take but you dont go willingly to die.
people go in willing to fight and do what is right but they hope they come out alive or maybe at least sane.
semp
Title: Re: We never
Post by: PR3D4TOR on June 26, 2015, 08:38:05 PM
It made me wonder how bad communism must have been, that the nazis were preferable and the SS were heroes to them.
Well, let's just put it this way, some historians say Stalin treated the Ukrainians worse than the Germans did and point to the pogroms of the early '30s against the kulaks that was considered to be "class genocide".
Title: Re: We never
Post by: PR3D4TOR on June 26, 2015, 09:16:42 PM