Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Mickey1992 on July 01, 2015, 08:17:11 AM

Title: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: Mickey1992 on July 01, 2015, 08:17:11 AM

The pictures of the damaged wings are really surprising.  Of course, the trashed nose is a little concerning.

Wouldn't a pilot try and avoid a storm like this in its path?

(http://media.bizj.us/view/img/6333201/unknown-11.jpg)

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2015/06/30/hail-pummels-delta-747-over-china-nwas-spirit-of.html
Title: Re: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: XxDaSTaRxx on July 01, 2015, 09:36:42 AM
Some idiotic pilots.

Even with weather radar.
Title: Re: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: Ripsnort on July 01, 2015, 11:26:53 AM
Someone is assuming it would be scrap?
LOL!

In 1985 A team of Boeing Engineers and mechanics once flew over to Paki after a 747 ran off the runway and trashed it's landing gear (collapsed, or failure to put them down, I don't remember but there was severe damage to the belly) and managed to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

This would be a piece of cake to fix compared to that aforementioned endeavor in Paki !

(http://www.historyofpia.com/apayw1b_acdp1.jpg)

(http://www.pakwheels.com/forums/attachments/aircrafts-trains/283202d1313013135-what-will-pia-replace-their-747s-apayw2b_acdp1.jpg)

Title: Re: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: mikeWe9a on July 02, 2015, 02:27:46 PM
The article states that the aircraft may not be returned to service, and notes that Delta is phasing out it's 747s over the next 2 years.  The aircraft would likely not NEED to be "scrapped," though it is possible that Delta would not find it financially sound to repair it with little time left to recoup the costs.  Based on an article linked from the first story, the aircraft's depreciated value is between $6 and $10 million, so it may not be worth it to repair even if it is possible (given the apparently severe turbulence it encountered, there may be damage to structure from over-stress as well).  The article suggests the engines could be sold for between $1 and $2.5 million each, though expecting the engines to be undamaged after going through that hail might be a stretch.

Mike
Title: Re: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: PR3D4TOR on July 02, 2015, 05:54:15 PM
Considering that a new one costs $200+ million a $6 million repair bill is well worth it. Even if Delta doesn't fix it they will sell the aircraft to someone who do.
Title: Re: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: mbailey on July 02, 2015, 06:29:23 PM
Or turn it into their insurance company, get their settlement and have the insurance company take it for salvage......expecially if they were looking to thin them out of the fleet anyway
Title: Re: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on July 02, 2015, 07:04:12 PM
The aircraft was already 24 years old.
Title: Re: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: Ripsnort on July 02, 2015, 10:32:54 PM
The aircraft was already 24 years old.
That's very old in Airbus years. Just breaking it in with Boeing years...
Title: Re: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: saggs on July 02, 2015, 11:53:46 PM
The aircraft was already 24 years old.

Pshhh... ... 24 is just a young 'un. 

At my work we operate aircraft daily that are 50-70+ yrs old.
Title: Re: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: Karnak on July 03, 2015, 01:43:31 AM
Pshhh... ... 24 is just a young 'un. 

At my work we operate aircraft daily that are 50-70+ yrs old.
Probably not pressurized ones.  Pressurization limits an airframe's longevity whereas aircraft that are not pressurized can pretty much be flown forever so long as they are maintained.
Title: Re: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: Curval on July 03, 2015, 05:10:10 AM
Glad I wasn't on that plane.

I went to London last week and was in the back of the bus.  The woman in front of me had what I can only describe as a super reclining chair and her seat was so close I had to recline my chair just to be able to see the TV screen on the chair back because it was so close.

It made me feel claustrophobic badly.

At some point in the flight I drifted off and only woke up when the plane dropped like 100 feet out of the sky and then started being thrown about by the turbulence.   I woke up, grabbed the seat handles and both my feet shot up under her chair so hard she actually said "Ow".

No more sleep for me.  We ran into 3 of these weather incidents on the flight.  Scary as hell.
Title: Re: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: mike8318 on July 03, 2015, 01:12:53 PM
We are supposed to be phasing them out anyway. Our 777's and 767ER's are much more fuel efficient. We are even making a few 757's usable for some international routes.
Title: Re: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: Zimme83 on July 03, 2015, 04:41:22 PM
Probably not pressurized ones.  Pressurization limits an airframe's longevity whereas aircraft that are not pressurized can pretty much be flown forever so long as they are maintained.

yep, but a Boeing is on the ground so much that it dont get that many cykels in 24 years.  :D

(Sorry, could not resist it.)

A 24 year old 4-engine plane is prob not worth repairing even if the damage is moderate. It doesnt have that many years left as a passenger plane. B-747 is not excatly a money maker either so I fully understand if they scrap it.
Title: Re: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: saggs on July 03, 2015, 05:09:09 PM
Probably not pressurized ones.  Pressurization limits an airframe's longevity whereas aircraft that are not pressurized can pretty much be flown forever so long as they are maintained.

Right.  Our DC-6s where pressurized originally, but when we got 'em we pulled out the cabin superchargers, mixers and all the pressurization stuff.  Makes life much simpler maintenance wise.  But what's really stupid is even though we don't fly them pressurized any more, we still have to certain inspections to comply with ADs dealing with pressurization issues.

Our oldest planes (C-46s) where never pressurized, and where built in the war to only last 500 hours (they figured during the war, within 500 flight hours it would either be crashed or shot down).  We have some at over 30,000 hours now, but all the really poorly manufactured war-era parts have been replaced with better post war (1950s) manufactured parts.

We do however operate DC-9s, some of which are 40+ yrs old which are pressurized, the more cycles they have the more NDI stuff we have to do on the pressure vessel, but we've never encountered any problems in that area.

It's just funny to me.  24yrs old where I work would be considered practically brand new.
Title: Re: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: Ripsnort on July 03, 2015, 06:40:18 PM
I would have hated being a passenger in seat 1A or 1K on that flight!  :uhoh
Title: Re: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: Zimme83 on July 03, 2015, 07:18:42 PM
Pressurized planes have a limited lifespan due to fatigue in the fuselage due to the pressurized cabin expanding and stretching the fuselage when flying on high alts. A lot of 747.s end their lifes as freighters.
guess its primarly a economic issue, that maintainace cost etc increase beyond the point were its economical to fly the plane.

A worst case scenario:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243
Title: Re: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: Busher on July 03, 2015, 08:04:47 PM
Probably not pressurized ones.  Pressurization limits an airframe's longevity whereas aircraft that are not pressurized can pretty much be flown forever so long as they are maintained.

That's what "D" checks are for. Basically an airframe renewal. They often go on until the cost of the renewal gets excessive.
Title: Re: Delta 747-400 might be scrapped after encountering hailstorm in flight.
Post by: Ripsnort on July 04, 2015, 10:04:34 AM
Pressurized planes have a limited lifespan due to fatigue in the fuselage due to the pressurized cabin expanding and stretching the fuselage when flying on high alts. A lot of 747.s end their lifes as freighters.
guess its primarly a economic issue, that maintainace cost etc increase beyond the point were its economical to fly the plane.

A worst case scenario:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243

That worse case scenario was unrelated to pressurization fatigue. It exposed the issue (below) but wasn't the culprit.

(NTSB) concluded that the accident was caused by metal fatigue exacerbated by crevice corrosion. The plane was 19 years old and operated in a coastal environment, with exposure to salt and humidity.

Ironically, they found this note on the floor of cabin after landing.

(http://luckypuppy.bravehost.com/GALLERY/galleries/Aviation/Crazypics/quantas.jpg)