Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Zimme83 on July 10, 2015, 08:34:17 AM
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The Spit XIV is pretty much a hanger queen compare to the rest of the MW/LW spits and has a very bad k/d ratio. Its a bit hard to understand, A spit XIV in the right hands should be a monster, climb rate is amazing. Guess people tries to use it like the other spit instead of BnZ:ing. But i really do belive it deserves a bigger "role" in the MA. So why doesnt people wants to use it?
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I rip my wings off every damn time Haha
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It's fairly slow for a late war plane at the typical MA altitudes(Spit16 is faster below 10k). Its also the corkiest and least stable spitfire with its huge increase in torque and the fact that the prop spins in the opposite direction.
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(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=64&p2=86&pw=2>ype=0&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
I would say the XIV wins.
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What should make the XIV attractive is this:
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=64&p2=54&pw=2>ype=2&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
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I like to use it as a bomber interceptor if I don't have time to get a 152 up to Alt. It climbs crazy fast and has lots of speed at Alt.
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A good sortie in the XIV is some good fun
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The spit 14 is a blast to fly. I take it up quite often. It fights well up high. You can run down a P51 or P47 at high alt unless they dive out. The combo of 50 cal and 20mm is very lethal. When you have 1/2 a wing it's very difficult to stay upright and land with all that weight up front and torque. You can climb to 30k alt and still have 30 minutes of cruise fuel left. Overall it's my 2nd favorite interceptor after the TA152.
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Overly fragile, overly hard to aim with, not a great turn fighter and has a horrid 3 to 1 cooldown to WEP ratio.
And people kept telling me I was nuts to argue it shouldn't be perked, saying it would dominate the MA if the perk was removed. Turns out that what I, and others such as Luche, said would happen is exactly what happened.
EDIT:
It's fairly slow for a late war plane at the typical MA altitudes(Spit16 is faster below 10k). Its also the corkiest and least stable spitfire with its huge increase in torque and the fact that the prop spins in the opposite direction.
Not sure which Spits you've been flying, but the XVI is not faster than the XIV at any altitude. Does turn and roll a lot better though. Better gunnery platform too.
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I use it on rare occasions to run down high alt cons and as a stripper for high altitude bomber escorts. Nothing more scary for a bunch of jugs or ponies than realizing the Spit they see approaching is not hunting the bombers, it's hunting them. :devil The 14 is an absolute handful up high!
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Easy answer, because it is a Spit! :devil
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Overly fragile, overly hard to aim with, not a great turn fighter and has a horrid 3 to 1 cooldown to WEP ratio.
And people kept telling me I was nuts to argue it shouldn't be perked, saying it would dominate the MA if the perk was removed. Turns out that what I, and others such as Luche, said would happen is exactly what happened.
EDIT:
Not sure which Spits you've been flying, but the XVI is not faster than the XIV at any altitude. Does turn and roll a lot better though. Better gunnery platform too.
My mistake. However the spit16 is still more suitable to the typical MA alts. And the SPit14 is still relatively slow by Late ware standards on the deck.
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Karnak nailed it.
The performance numbers a great, the handling is not, especially as a weapon platform. Which makes all the difference.
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The Spit 14 is the best 109 ever built.
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I don't know the exact #s but it feels like it gains on faster planes for a bit (due to acceleration) then starts falling behind at higher speeds.
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The Spit 14 is the best 109 ever built.
Ehhh, all of the 109s can out turn the spit14, and really in truly It is a hard plane to BnZ in as well. I think the 109s are more capable as fighters. As Luche said, the handling is just weird in the spit14.
And those bloody wings.. you will kill yourself 7 out of 10 times pulling up too hard.
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I don't fly the Spit XIV because the one time I tried it was about as stable as a bobble head.
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Spit14 is great. It's super fast and dives great. I would describe it as a manual spitfire. Apply trims and throttle work in it. It's a great climber and can hang pretty good. Once you get use to the guns it's a great killer. Use the speed and climb rate to out fly ur opponents. Fly it like a 190. With the high speeds it has, you can easy rip ur Wings off trying to turn if someone is on ur 6. So don't pull hard, use trims and throttle to make ur opponent overshoot and once you get slow then start to scissors vertical and you will make ur opponent stall. Planes like 109k4, la7 and spit16 will give you a harder fight. So you will need to think quick and time your angles ahead of time. Spit14 works great in a vertical scissor fight. :salute
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Guess that with more "easy" spits aviable noone really takes the time to learn how to fly the XIV.
But compare to the K-4 the XIV should be an excelent replacement for most players. K-4 has about the same ups and downs as the XIV.
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But compare to the K-4 the XIV should be an excelent replacement for most players. K-4 has about the same ups and downs as the XIV.
Not at all. They have very different downs. The biggest "down" for most players in the K-4 is getting used to the tater ballistics, the thick cockpit frame (no issue if you got trackir) and the stiff controls at high speeds.
For the XIV it's being an unstable weapon platform - The K-4 is rock stable and precise in comparison.
The K-4 is faster than the Spit 14 up to about 24k (and there's little combat above that these days) and is effectively the much better climber to altitude due to it's generous WEP.
Guess that with more "easy" spits aviable noone really takes the time to learn how to fly the XIV.
You can say that for many planes.
There are much better planes in the Spit 14's performance leage, so those will be of course more popular. With it's rather extreme mixture of pros and cons it's essentially a mediocre fighter in AH's very unique combat environment.
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Always burn the fuel out of wing tanks before engaging in combat. That is part of why you pull the wings off or cannot pull out of a dive. Also make sure a bit of the bottom tank is burned off. Too much fuel onboard is a big reason it is so unSpit like for many to maneuver with. Think of it as a spit8 airframe with about 300 more pounds hanging off the nose and horrendous torque. It's one of the few planes in the game that I only turn off combat trim in a dive so I can recover using pitch trim. Otherwise, it is all over the place with it's own mind due to that torque if you don't spend the time learning how to fly it.
The 150 Oct 21lb boost version was faster than the K4 at Mil and WEP SL up to max alt except for a band between 15-18k. Climb on WEP, it left the K4 in the dust, SL to Max Alt. But, then Hitech would have to perk it again. And the Spit14 over the continent went to war burning 150oct. It just didn't have much endurance for range.
Our 18lb boost spit14 is a dog until it gets above 20k where it starts to be faster and out climb the K4.
All of this is from the comparison page at: http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14v109.html
The gonzo AH comparison page, if you put in the spit8, 14 and K4, is very generous to the spit8 and spit14 performance as a generalization to the K4. The other link shows the 18lb boost spit14 as a dog which is what our spit14 is rated.
Compare the 18lb boost spit14 and K4 here, then go back and look at that compared to the other link: http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php
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Not at all. They have very different downs. The biggest "down" for most players in the K-4 is getting used to the tater ballistics, the thick cockpit frame (no issue if you got trackir) and the stiff controls at high speeds.
For the XIV it's being an unstable weapon platform - The K-4 is rock stable and precise in comparison.
The K-4 is faster than the Spit 14 up to about 24k (and there's little combat above that these days) and is effectively the much better climber to altitude due to it's generous WEP.
You can say that for many planes.
There are much better planes in the Spit 14's performance leage, so those will be of course more popular. With it's rather extreme mixture of pros and cons it's essentially a mediocre fighter in AH's very unique combat environment.
Then ist weird that K-4 is ENY 15 while XIV is ENY 5
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The K4 is actually a pretty hard plane to fly, despite its performance measures. The majority of people who don't fly it a lot have a hard time getting kills and being successful in it.
A great fight is an La7 Vs spit 14.
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Little OT but it feels like the spits are a little too fragile, havent got the impressions that irl spite were weaker than other comparable fighters. The difference between spits and Yak-3 for ex is just ridiculous.
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Then ist weird that K-4 is ENY 15 while XIV is ENY 5
As far as I'm concerned, both could be at 10-12 ;)
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As far as I'm concerned, both could be at 10-12 ;)
Would be more reasonable.
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Like what I said covers the spit14. Btw violator the k4 is easy mode. Hardest 109s to fly are 109g14 and 109g6. In my opinion I think the spit14 is the sexiest spit out of all. Also la7 will eat up a spit14 below 9k. I love talking about these old school planes. :cheers:
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The K4 is actually a pretty hard plane to fly, despite its performance measures. The majority of people who don't fly it a lot have a hard time getting kills and being successful in it.
A great fight is an La7 Vs spit 14.
Anyone with patience and a few years of fighter flight experience in our game can land 2-3 kills each sortie in a K4 if they don't ACM. Just perch on the edges of furballs, dive through, stick the spinner up their target's rear end and climb out. It's by the 3rd or 4th time you try to setup for a repeat, a few of the enemy have caught on and begin getting alt to challenge you. It is the perfect drive through and back shoot people ride for our game because you get up on station 2-3 times faster than many other rides. And if you need to climb away, you are free.
Now if you want to ACM with it.....find a muppet and live in the DA for about 6 months..... :O
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There was a reason they considered renaming the Griffon Spits. The XIV is a much different bird. If you fly it like lighter Merlin Spit its not as effective. Take advantage of the speed and climb and it can be a beast.
I remember flying around in the Spit Vb back prior to a scenario and running into Spit 14s. They could have completely controlled the fight but they appeared to believe the higher number meant they could turn better and they'd get slow with the Vb get turned inside and killed.
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The K4 is actually a pretty hard plane to fly, despite its performance measures.
Agreed.
But the Spit 14 is harder. Much harder. Possibly the most difficult plane in the AH plane set to fly well.
IMHO, that is!
- oldman
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The 14 I find very hard to make accurate shots with. I don't struggle with aiming in any other plane more than the spit14. It's not a terrible dogfighter, just have to fly it like a yak or typhoon. People expect it to be like the other spitfires, but it's not. This is a extremely high performance interceptor.
The right hand spiral climb is not a good tactic in this place, the torque will over take you and you will cross control the plane into such a slow speed it will stall. Make a left hand spiral and let the plane fall to the right in the stall. Much more control able.
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That plane is amazing if you fly it right. treat it like a 51. fast and low angle turns its great at roping too
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I love the power of the Spit 14! It's so unlike the other spitfires. The only reason I don't fly it more often is because it is a Spit amd I lost a lot of my affection for the spitfires after I found the 109F4 :D
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The XIV evolved into the Spiteful and maybe the Griffin was a bit too much for the spit airframe to handle. But as i said, i belive its a good substitute to the K-4 if u accept that its not a TnB spit.
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Always burn the fuel out of wing tanks before engaging in combat. That is part of why you pull the wings off or cannot pull out of a dive.
Fuel in the wing tanks should if anything make the wings less likely to rip off - weight outboard reduces wing bending moment during flight, although it may reduce maneuverability or handling characteristics due to roll inertia and/or center of gravity issues.
Mike
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Spit XIV is the most dangerous spit to a Moquito. I target them with high priority togeter with the La7s - except that it is hard to tell it is a 14 till you are very close. The acceleration of that thing is so high that it is very difficult to escape from it, even in a faster plane. The climb rate is insane and if you look away from the 14 for a few seconds, you suddenly find it co-E with you - kind of like the Yak3.
It really should have gotten a new name - it is nothing like the Merlin Spits and the vast majorityof players have no idea how to fly it. Unlike the Merlin Spits that are "start and go", this one has many ins and outs and quircky features that are typical of planes with too powerful engine for their frame. It does take a higher degree of skill to fly well, but has much more potential than the other spits. Also, it still turns pretty well inspite of what others may say. In this case, WEPing while the stall horn is on is not always the best way to go - sometimes it needs to reduced power in order to keep it in control, and it has plenty of power to spare.
The real problem with the 14 is that every time I think of taking one, it is ENY locked.
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I tried it a few times today and I've noticed that it's harder to slow down and get a tracking shot. The plane feels more unstable at slower speeds. That and as others have said it tends to be hard to steady up for a shot at high speeds as well. Love the power and the climb rate but it really is better at BnZ or slashing. I'd love to hear more opinions on how to fly it as it does seem to be an interesting ride.
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Spit XIV is the most dangerous spit to a Moquito.
I just noticed I haven't done a chart for a long time :D
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/spits%20vs%20moss%206%202014_zpsezy8fpqz.jpg)
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Years ago a guy named Machfly was pretty good in that ol girl.
So was Viperious of The Few. :) I seen him reverse 7 cons 3 times in the same sortie in that squeak lol
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I have fought spit14 while in a spit8 and the reverse. Fighting a spi14 using a spit8 is fun because most players try to fly the spit14 like a spit. I either shoot it down or have the fun of watching the spit14 auger.
Fighting and defeating spit8s with a spit14 is not fun and time consuming if you are not picking the spit8. Especially if you make the spit14 fly like a spit8 to keep the squirrely sucker from going home. Or, you get caught on the deck by the spit8. You can fly the spit14 like a spit8 and defeat the spit8. You can do this all the way down to spit9s. It's absolutely no fun.
It's more efficient to fly the spit14 like a hybrid P51B\spit8. If you gauge this by your fuel, as your fuel reduces you can transition more into flying like a spit8.
I used to snap the wings off spit14s until I made sure I emptied the wing tanks before executing any high G maneuvering.
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Fuel in the wing tanks should if anything make the wings less likely to rip off - weight outboard reduces wing bending moment during flight, although it may reduce maneuverability or handling characteristics due to roll inertia and/or center of gravity issues.
Mike
Mike has brought the correct.
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I love the spitty 14 :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
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I just noticed I haven't done a chart for a long time :D
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/spits%20vs%20moss%206%202014_zpsezy8fpqz.jpg)
First thing to notice is that spits have k/d < 1 against the mossie except the spit 16 which is very close to 1. This proves that the mossie is a better Fighter than spitfires and is equal to the dreaded Spit16 - statistics don't lie :D
Spit 14 actual threat is far below its potential, just like the La7s. The problem is that in order to tell whether the player in them has any clue, I have to get close enough to start a scrap and then, escaping these two is very difficult. So I just target them with a priority and usually find out they really don't have a clue, so I get away with it.
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First thing to notice is that spits have k/d < 1 against the mossie except the spit 16 which is very close to 1. This proves that the mossie is a better Fighter than spitfires and is equal to the dreaded Spit16 - statistics don't lie :D
Spit 14 actual threat is far below its potential, just like the La7s. The problem is that in order to tell whether the player in them has any clue, I have to get close enough to start a scrap and then, escaping these two is very difficult. So I just target them with a priority and usually find out they really don't have a clue, so I get away with it.
Not the K4, or the G14 or the Spit 16, though? If acceleration is what gets you, they're right up there with the La and Spit 14. Certainly far ahead of the Mossie.
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The Spit 14 is a monster ! I've chased down pony's with ease. Made P38's with alt/speed advantage cry cheat. Poor Ruaml had a fit when I out climbed his LA and picked him to pieces at the top of his loop... But if you get slow with her, you're doomed ! she'll stall without warning, She'll roll you over into the ground in an instant. and if you do get into a spin (wich is very common) you better have atleast 10k to pull her out of it ! Fly it like a Pony that climbs and accelerates really well.
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Not the K4, or the G14 or the Spit 16, though? If acceleration is what gets you, they're right up there with the La and Spit 14. Certainly far ahead of the Mossie.
The spits16 pretty much owns the g14 and K4 in any 1v1 fight. The only way to beat a spit16 is to out fly the pilot. The G14 is an average late war plane. The guns on the spit make it easier to kill than the K4 and as I said before, a lot of people have trouble being successful in the 109ss becauase they don't dive well. Many people fly botth the spits and 109s too aggressively aand die a lot whicha is why they have low K/Ds.
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Not the K4, or the G14 or the Spit 16, though? If acceleration is what gets you, they're right up there with the La and Spit 14. Certainly far ahead of the Mossie.
The only thing I don't recall ever killing in a Mossie is a Bf109K-4. Bf109s in generally gave me headaches.
There was this one time, I was gaining position on him, almost had him, when his Fw190D-9 buddy got me. I knew I was almost certainly going to lose when I engaged the two who were obviously winging. Players flying German stuff are, on average, better than players flying other stuff.
La-7s could be rough, but I have a lot of silly kills on them. Spitfires I generally found easy due to the players using them. Like Bozon the Mk XIV was my biggest worry because a Mossie cannot disengage from one unless the XIV wants to let the Mossie disengage.
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Not the K4, or the G14 or the Spit 16, though? If acceleration is what gets you, they're right up there with the La and Spit 14. Certainly far ahead of the Mossie.
K4 and G14 are tough adversaries, but their weaknesses are something that I can easily work against. The are definitely easier to escape from due to their dive speed limits (provided I have some air under me). I don't find the K4 exceptionally dangerous more than the other 1945 monsters - that is not to say it is not dangerous... The Spit 14 vs. the Mossie is a more wierd matchup - The mossie like the Spit14 has massive torque. Like the Spit14 it is very unstable at slow speeds and can easily flip out of control. However, the torque works in opposite direction, which also drives me nuts when I fly Spit14 or Typh while so used to the Mossie - my responses are all wrong. It also means that in a matchup, a left turn benefits the mossie while a right turn benefits the 14 - the difference is huge. Against the 109s the right/left differece is not so big and I can hang with a K4 in a turn for quite some angles, either way. Also, while the Mossie is a big target, a K4 is much more likely to miss than a Spit14, and those hispanos hurt bad, so the extra power of the tater is usualy an overkill.
Spit 16, with a bit of initial separation, the mossie can extend from... on the deck... with WEP.... with these you either have to kill them in 1-2 moves, choose your timing and escape, or rely on the likely lower skill of the Spit pilot that can be exploited in a knife fight. You cannot run from a Spit14, cannot out dive it and cannot reverse E states, and he can keep pressure on you without pulling more than 3G and never get into a knife fight. Very soon some of his hispano rounds WILL connect. It is not like the Spit14 is a super plane, it is very much killable. It just can be a prolonged and annoying fight where the Mossie will be on defense the whole time.
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Because as long as there is a K4 there is no reason to fly the Spit14. :salute
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as long as there is a K4 there is no reason to fly the Spit14.
Just some base facts:
- Spit 14 slightly out climbs K4.
- Spit 14 has slightly better turn radius.
- Some find gun package on Spit 14 easier get hits with.
- K4 has a slightly better acceleration.
- Most novice pilots find k4 more stable.
- K4 is aprox 10 mph faster than the Spit 14.
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Just some base facts:
- Spit 14 slightly out climbs K4.
- Spit 14 has slightly better turn radius.
- Some find gun package on Spit 14 easier get hits with.
- K4 has a slightly better acceleration.
- Most novice pilots find k4 more stable.
- K4 is aprox 10 mph faster than the Spit 14.
the term "novice" makes no sense in point 5. The Spit14 is not as stable as the K4 under load transitions from low to high power, especially in turns, giving the K4 big edge in actual manueverablity, that an expert K4 would make much better use of. True it takes an expert to fly a spit14 to full potential, but that potential is less than an expert will get out of a K4. :salute
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Just some base facts:
- Spit 14 slightly out climbs K4.
- Spit 14 has slightly better turn radius.
- Some find gun package on Spit 14 easier get hits with.
- K4 has a slightly better acceleration.
- Most novice pilots find k4 more stable.
- K4 is aprox 10 mph faster than the Spit 14.
Spit 14 also has worse endurance and horrendous wep cycle. The K4 can spend almost 2/3rds of it's sortie WEP'd up, while the Spit 14 is effectively limited to 5 minutes, with perhaps enough flight time to WEP up on egress.
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the term "novice" makes no sense in point 5. The Spit14 is not as stable as the K4 under load transitions from low to high power, especially in turns, giving the K4 big edge in actual manueverablity, that an expert K4 would make much better use of. True it takes an expert to fly a spit14 to full potential, but that potential is less than an expert will get out of a K4. :salute
I always found the K4 far more stable. Some reason the Spit 14 just never seemed to "fly right". Then again I do have thousands of kills in a K4, and barely 200 in a Spit 14. If I want a Spit below 15k I just take a Spit 16, that extra "Speed" doesn't help a spit 14 because whatever it "can out run" it can't out turn.
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A lot of your problems fighting a spit14 vs. K4 is easier to do with a spit8. Most of the time I run into K4 with alt and have to spend all of their passes in either spit getting equal or above them. Then most these days start HOing as soon as either spit equalizes with them. I suspect we are growing a better quality of spit vets these days for all the K4 HOing I get now.
Lord forbid if Hitech changes the Griffon 65 to a 21lb boost like they really were over the continent. When the spit14 was first used for combat, it was against V1 mid 44 and they were cleared for 150oct so they had a chance to catch the V1s. England had been receiving stores of 150oct since March 44.
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After doing some offline testing I think the key to master the XIV is to learn to use the rudder, it feels unstable because of the yaw motion during maneuvers, it prob take some time to master but when u do...