General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: artik on July 22, 2015, 12:46:31 AM
Title: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: artik on July 22, 2015, 12:46:31 AM
I had noticed that Brew is almost 10 times more popular than I-16 at MA. However if you compare them:
1. I-16 and Brew has almost identical speed vs altitude profile 2. I-16 has way better climb rate at all altitudes (which also translates to better acceleration) 3. I-16 has way better all around visibility not restricted by heavily framed canopy 4. I-16 has has good firepower not falling of Brew. 5. I-16 dives very well
So how can this be that it has way lower popularity and k/d rate?
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: bozon on July 22, 2015, 01:14:54 AM
Brew is an American plane flown into glory by the Finns. I-16 is a Russian plane used to pad the outrageous kill scores of some German aces.
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: Lusche on July 22, 2015, 02:12:55 AM
The I-16 is crippled in terms of range. If you set away 10 minutes for combat purposes, the I-16 has a range of about 70 miles (at full military power) on deck while the B-239 has about 150 miles.
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: Zimme83 on July 22, 2015, 02:54:00 AM
The I-16 doesn't turn that well, its a slow turn fighter but most other slow turn fighters can beat it in a turn fight. Zeke's, Ki-43 and the Brewster has a better turn rate and its big enough difference to be a decisive factor in a turn fight. A6M5 and Brewster are also faster at sea alt and thus can catch an I-16 trying to run. So the problem with the I-16 is that its likely that it will meet cons that is better in both turn and speed performance.
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: Wmaker on July 22, 2015, 06:06:22 AM
- In my opinion, the biggest problem of the I-16 in AH is its very poor directional stability which, based on my testing, is due to the excessive gyroscopic precession of it's prop. At low speed the aircraft can just depart sideways as the gyroscopic yaw overcomes the aerodynamic force of the vertical stabilizer which doesn't seem accurate at all regarding practically any prop driven aircraft really. This makes the aircraft a handful to fly through which a lot of its maneuvering potential is lost. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,291191.msg3703387.html#msg3703387 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,291191.msg3703387.html#msg3703387)
- Another issue is its rather poor prop efficiency especially below best climb speed (for example being slow on the top of loop). There was some talk when I-16 was initially introduced and Hitech adjusted the prop efficiency back then. Considering the shape of the fuselage and the shape of the prop, I'm sure this is pretty accurate.
- While two cannons makes for a decent armament they have very short clips of 90 rounds each. Small amount of ammo combined with poor directional stability deprives a lot of lethality from the armament.
The I-16 is crippled in terms of range. If you set away 10 minutes for combat purposes, the I-16 has a range of about 70 miles (at full military power) on deck while the B-239 has about 150 miles.
While I agree that the range with internal fuel is easily poorest of any fighter in the game, with drop tanks, one can fly a very similar mission profile as the Brewster with 50% fuel. IE. short distance between fields; you go in, do your thing and leave as the ammo is gone. :) Of course just talking about what I'm used to do personally. It's a very very rare occasion I take more than 50% fuel to Brewster.
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: Wmaker on July 22, 2015, 06:46:01 AM
2. I-16 has way better climb rate at all altitudes (which also translates to better acceleration)
Just wanted to mention that while the I-16 indeed has a better climb rate compared to the Brewster, it isn't quite what the charts show in the MA. The charts are recorded with 100% internal fuel and Brewster practically never needs that much fuel on board and I-16 needs all of it.
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: artik on July 22, 2015, 06:56:03 AM
Just wanted to mention that while the I-16 indeed has a better climb rate compared to the Brewster, it isn't quite what the charts show in the MA. The charts are recorded with 100% internal fuel and Brewster practically never needs that much fuel on board and I-16 needs all of it.
At MA I-16's range is horribly hampered by fuel burn multiplier as actually most of Soviet planes that didn't require long hours flight to escort B-17s or fly over vast ocean. While flying pony or even F4F you can firewall the throttle and not think about anything in Yaks, Lavochkins and even more critical I-16 you must watch the fuel carefully and manage both throttle and RPM to keep reasonable loiter time.
What is actually interesting is flying with Type 24 or type 29 loadout. It is frequently forgotten that ShAKS has very high rate of fire of ~1,800 for wing mounted guns and ~1,600 for synchronized. These loadouts make the aircraft lighter however even in type 24 variant it brings firepower similar to Hurricane Mk I and does not have any problems to chop aircraft parts. UBS has also higher rate of fire and heavier bullets in comparison to .50 M2.
BTW @Wmaker I assume you are more than familiar with I-16. Can you please take a look on what I had written about it in the wiki: http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Polikarpov_I-16
Of course please edit if you find incorrect notes.
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: lyric1 on July 22, 2015, 07:03:54 AM
Also I recall reading that the cannon armed version had a worse turning radius than the conventional machine gun option. 13 feet rings a bell but I am not sure now. Hands down though when you have rockets on board it is the best V-base deacking aircraft in game. Set it up right you will get all the auto acks in 1 pass. :aok
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: Wmaker on July 22, 2015, 07:38:37 AM
BTW @Wmaker I assume you are more than familiar with I-16. Can you please take a look on what I had written about it in the wiki: http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Polikarpov_I-16
I haven't flown it that much in the MA, I really have hard time getting over the gyroscopic precession -issue. :( I know how to fly it but it just isn't that much fun to dance on the rudder pedals trying to keep the nose from swaying all over the place with the slightest pitch input. I've flown in more offline investigating the issue than online. :)
Anyway, the wiki-article looked good, nothing in particular jumped out that needed correcting IMO. :)
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: icepac on July 22, 2015, 06:03:39 PM
Drive an I16 behind a brewster and duplicate a hard 180 degree break turn.
Then look at the airspeed of both planes.
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: PR3D4TOR on July 22, 2015, 06:57:57 PM
In a word: Manly.
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: Nefarious on July 23, 2015, 08:34:42 PM
Would they be even in Combat Challenge?
Brew vs I16 Bf 109E vs I16
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: Slade on July 24, 2015, 09:31:10 AM
I do weird things in various planes. I'm gonna come clean on the I-16. It is one of the best planes in this game to go from orbit to an enemy's 6.
Why? When air braking from orbit (15k-20k) it can hold a near constant speed below that of parts coming off. That is one of it most incredible assets! Most all other planes, even great divers (51, 47, 190...) still increase speed and you have to be very careful.
On the other had, once you de-orbit on to someone's 6 you usually only get one shot as most all other planes do everything better than it or can at least dictate the fight from there.
When this works it is incredible fun! :rock
Go I-16's! :cheers:
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: Oldman731 on July 24, 2015, 10:51:44 AM
What is actually interesting is flying with Type 24 or type 29 loadout.
I-16 with Type 29 armament is a lot of fun. Sort of makes the 202 look like a heavily-armed plane, but both of them are dancers.
- oldman
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: JVboob on July 26, 2015, 03:57:17 AM
yesterday the 49th flew a 7 ship flight of brewsters :x one P39D was seen low and was litterally swarmed by the tiny nimble E monsters till it had no wings or tail. Then we approached his field there was an LA7 at about 5K and that pilot turned straight to the ack umbrella we followed killing him and a 190 who uppped while we were buzzing around in the ack
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: PR3D4TOR on July 26, 2015, 04:05:15 PM
Sounds like a lot of fun! :aok
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: icepac on July 27, 2015, 10:51:30 PM
Still trying to bag a B29 at high altitude with the I16.
I haven't gotten the perfect intercept yet............I get vis and closing but not enough and not in time.
Have to catch them coming in rather than leaving.
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: artik on August 27, 2015, 05:45:21 AM
Statistics of I-16 vs Bf-109E-4 at Axis vs Allies arena:
I-16 killed 22 times Bf-109E-4 and once Ju-87 I-16 was killed 22 times by Bf-109E-4 and once by Ju-88
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on August 31, 2015, 04:11:56 AM
The brew is stable and has x4 .50 cals. gun package option.
The I-16 is unstable and only has one .50 cal load out option with limited ammo. :D
(yea yea yea, it has 20mm cannons with limited ammo, and that adds even more weight to a already tiny winged fighter)
Oh and the flaps, go flaps down in a I-16 is a death sentence. Talk about hitting a brick wall. :bhead
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: JunkyII on August 31, 2015, 04:41:51 AM
The Brewsters stability in the roll makes it a lethal fire platform....it's like a M16 with a higher top speed that can turn better.
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: Rich46yo on August 31, 2015, 01:39:26 PM
I remember when both came out and the superiority of the Brew became so apparent. Still with the better stick in the I-16 there were some good fights. I liked both planes and still do.
Title: Re: Brew vs Polikarpov I-16 at MA
Post by: Slade on September 01, 2015, 09:29:03 AM
Quote
I-16 is a Russian plane used to pad the outrageous kill scores of some German aces.
So far this month I am 9-3 in the I-16 (I fly as X15). It is a BLAST to fly! If flown to its strengths...for 5-10 seconds it is the best fighter in the game. What?! :eek:
It eats altitude and E like few other planes. THAT is what can be made into an advantage as alluded to above. Most planes have parts break off because steep dives hit a terminal velocity even when air braking. Not so with the I-16!
You fly well above the enemy, issue a de-orbit burn, rudder\air brake staying above the enemy until 1k-ish then open up with the cannons at 300.
Not quite a vulch cause this thing only gets one (1) chance to get it right. Using that technique, it does not usually have enough E for a second pass let alone running home.
Warning: When that window of opportunity s-l-a-m-s shut you are left with a mediocre plane that cannot hope to run home if there are many cons.
In short, you pull in behind them appearing from nowhere in a plane that cannot be out-turned going 300mph +\-. Its incredible visibility makes it really hard for them to counter for those few moments. You can stick to them like glue as at that point you are not going 450mph+ (as in a 190\47\51 vulch).
I love doing this against Spit16s and LA7s! Fun! :rock