Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: RedAgony on July 28, 2015, 04:02:29 AM

Title: Just a quick question
Post by: RedAgony on July 28, 2015, 04:02:29 AM
SINCE WHEN DID KI-67s HAVE A NORDEN BOMB SIGHT?  precision bombing from 30K is kinda ridiculous dontcha think?
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Zimme83 on July 28, 2015, 04:35:42 AM
It doesnt have a norden bomb sight. But if u dont have noticed, all bombers use the same bomb sight. Our B-17:s dont have a Norden either.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Wizz on July 28, 2015, 05:03:13 AM
See rule #4
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Scca on July 28, 2015, 09:53:21 AM
Ya, I have seen that guy...  Took a few shots at him, but couldn't hang at 30k with a KI-67.  I can't imagine anything more boring to do, but when you're chasing the #1 bomber position, you have to do boring stuff.  #It'sHis$15
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: lyric1 on July 28, 2015, 09:54:32 AM
SINCE WHEN DID KI-67s HAVE A NORDEN BOMB SIGHT?  precision bombing from 30K is kinda ridiculous dontcha think?

This would be true for all WWII aircraft. B-29's couldn't hit anything from that altitude hence why General Lemay forced them lower.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_LeMay

 
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Lusche on July 28, 2015, 10:26:51 AM
Ya, I have seen that guy...  Took a few shots at him, but couldn't hang at 30k with a KI-67.  I can't imagine anything more boring to do, but when you're chasing the #1 bomber position, you have to do boring stuff.  #It'sHis$15

I was almost waiting for the "score" blame thrown around again ;)

You are aware that if one is trying for #1 rank he will absolutely avoid flying Ki-67 and refrain from bombing small point targets?

Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Zimme83 on July 28, 2015, 10:28:32 AM
Sounds like someone got bomb****ed by Haver  :rofl
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Scca on July 28, 2015, 11:38:02 AM
I was almost waiting for the "score" blame thrown around again ;)

You are aware that if one is trying for #1 rank he will absolutely avoid flying Ki-67 and refrain from bombing small point targets?
Okay, so he doesn't know the best way to get there, but the same guy at 30K appears to be fighting for the top spot <shrug> 
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Dragon Tamer on July 28, 2015, 11:54:32 AM
You've gotta admit though, if survival is his game, he's doing a pretty damn good job at it.

I think the most I've ever done to him is killed one drone and heavily damaged another before I had to RTB deadstick.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Scca on July 28, 2015, 12:00:32 PM
You've gotta admit though, if survival is his game, he's doing a pretty damn good job at it.

I think the most I've ever done to him is killed one drone and heavily damaged another before I had to RTB deadstick.
Anyone can find it easy to survive in this game flying at 30k. 
A: hardly anyone is up there.
Two: Even if they are, it's really hard to get a kill.  If you practice enough you can, but so few times is the skill required, it's hard to get practice. 
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Zimme83 on July 28, 2015, 12:16:36 PM
Ki-67 can do excatly the same as all other bombers in the game, i dont see the problem. Buffs are regulary found at 30k+. Ki-67 atleast have the advantage of not need to spend an hour to get up there.

Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 28, 2015, 02:36:21 PM
This would be true for all WWII aircraft. B-29's couldn't hit anything from that altitude hence why General Lemay forced them lower.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_LeMay

The Jet Stream was probably the primary cause of the B-29s missing their targets when dropping from high altitudes.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Volron on July 28, 2015, 02:54:17 PM
The Jet Stream was probably the primary cause of the B-29s missing their targets when dropping from high altitudes.

I recall reading that being the major reason as well.  Barely any bombs were landing within the target area due to the jet stream.  Times were that they would be closing on target at 500mph, which gave the bombardier little time for calibration, or at 100mph, making them sitting ducks for the flak.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 28, 2015, 05:16:40 PM
I recall reading that being the major reason as well.  Barely any bombs were landing within the target area due to the jet stream.  Times were that they would be closing on target at 500mph, which gave the bombardier little time for calibration, or at 100mph, making them sitting ducks for the flak.

I think it was something like only 5% of the bombs actually hit their target when dropped through the Jet Stream.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: earl1937 on July 28, 2015, 05:18:15 PM
The Jet Stream was probably the primary cause of the B-29s missing their targets when dropping from high altitudes.
:airplane: You are 100% correct! There was nothing wrong with the bomb sight, I have seen "junk" 4X4's hit from 18,000 feet, over and over!
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: earl1937 on July 28, 2015, 05:26:19 PM
I think it was something like only 5% of the bombs actually hit their target when dropped through the Jet Stream.
:airplane: During WW2, if a bomb landed within (2) miles of the target, it was considered a hit! If anyone will study or look at the winds aloft for Japan and Europe they will see real quick that the prevailing jet streams are much lower over Japan than Europe, around 15K for Japan and 30 to 35K over Europe. that is why the bombers over Europe could better hit assigned targets than the 29's over Japan! (there used to be a "rumor" floating around that if a guy failed bombardier training, he was sent to Tinian to "fire" bomb Japan). (from 5,000 feet and they didn't even use the bomb sight to aim with, just fly over town and release fire bombs)   
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Dragon Tamer on July 29, 2015, 10:53:56 AM
Anyone can find it easy to survive in this game flying at 30k. 
A: hardly anyone is up there.
Two: Even if they are, it's really hard to get a kill.  If you practice enough you can, but so few times is the skill required, it's hard to get practice.

It's a well established fact that the further away from the ground I get in game, the worse my aim gets. I less references to judge the enemies speed off of.

If you want to watch me make an bellybutton of myself, just fly at 30k and wait for me to take a shot.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Zoney on July 29, 2015, 11:16:45 AM
Anyone can find it easy to survive in this game flying at 30k. 
A: hardly anyone is up there.
Two: Even if they are, it's really hard to get a kill.  If you practice enough you can, but so few times is the skill required, it's hard to get practice.

Sir, I am an unapologetic alt monkey, I fly at 30k a lot.  I would put forth the contention that if you yourself do not fly at 30k then your statement of "hardly anyone is up there", may simply be that you do not know.  Unless you are up there you probably are not observing whom is up there with you.  Time and time again I find many guys flying around between 20 and 30k that think they are safe, they never look up.  I know this because as I approach them they are making turns slowly left and right, as I do when I am looking for targets below me.  Many of these players never see me coming.  I am up there because I like the hunt.  I don't care what it is that comes into the area I am hunting.  I expect bombers but I find many fighters.  Maybe they are hunting bombers also, I would not know that.  Flying at alt is a different skill set.  Aircraft performance is obviously greatly affected.  The match up between different aircraft types is greatly affected because some planes do so much better at alt than others.

I have said before, "I dont mind fighting on the deck, I have fun there too, I'm just not going to start there.

They "Zoneysphere" begins at 30k and goes up from there.  The air is cleaner, there is no pollution and the unfiltered photons go directly in to me making me much more handsome.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: hitech on July 29, 2015, 01:04:14 PM
It's a well established fact that the further away from the ground I get in game, the worse my aim gets. I less references to judge the enemies speed off of.

If you want to watch me make an bellybutton of myself, just fly at 30k and wait for me to take a shot.

Btw it could also be that the bullets trajectory changes do to thinner air.

HiTech
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Swoop on July 30, 2015, 04:21:50 AM
Btw it could also be that the bullets trajectory changes do to thinner air.


Heh, cool.  16 years in AH and I never knew that.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Scca on July 30, 2015, 06:12:39 AM
Sir, I am an unapologetic alt monkey, I fly at 30k a lot.  I would put forth the contention that if you yourself do not fly at 30k then your statement of "hardly anyone is up there", may simply be that you do not know.  Unless you are up there you probably are not observing whom is up there with you.  Time and time again I find many guys flying around between 20 and 30k that think they are safe, they never look up.  I know this because as I approach them they are making turns slowly left and right, as I do when I am looking for targets below me.  Many of these players never see me coming.  I am up there because I like the hunt.  I don't care what it is that comes into the area I am hunting.  I expect bombers but I find many fighters.  Maybe they are hunting bombers also, I would not know that.  Flying at alt is a different skill set.  Aircraft performance is obviously greatly affected.  The match up between different aircraft types is greatly affected because some planes do so much better at alt than others.

I have said before, "I dont mind fighting on the deck, I have fun there too, I'm just not going to start there.

They "Zoneysphere" begins at 30k and goes up from there.  The air is cleaner, there is no pollution and the unfiltered photons go directly in to me making me much more handsome.
I still contend at 30k, 99% of the time, you are looking down for action.

Do people fly at 30k, yes, but if you never go below 20k, your user experience will equate to MSFS. Borrrrrrring
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Lusche on July 30, 2015, 06:22:17 AM
Just for giggles, not trying to 'prove' anything:

About three years ago I recorded for a month at what altitudes I was getting my bomber kills at:

(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/buffkillalts18septo18oct_zpsc58f9d2b.jpg)
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Scca on July 30, 2015, 07:19:52 AM
Just for giggles, not trying to 'prove' anything:

About three years ago I recorded for a month at what altitudes I was getting my bomber kills at:

(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/buffkillalts18septo18oct_zpsc58f9d2b.jpg)
Fair enough, but I am curious, what percentage of these kills were at or near strats?  My expectation is most... 

Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Lusche on July 30, 2015, 07:47:36 AM
Fair enough, but I am curious, what percentage of these kills were at or near strats?  My expectation is most...

The really high kills were almost exclusively made near (or heading towards) the strats. Attacks on bases rarely happen above 25k (except for the occasional long range town milker).

When I'm looking for bombers over bases, I'm generally hovering 15-25k, depening on what to expect and which ride I'm in.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: zack1234 on July 30, 2015, 09:11:19 AM
This would be true for all WWII aircraft. B-29's couldn't hit anything from that altitude hence why General Lemay forced them lower.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_LeMay

Our lancasters carpet bombed at night no need for Nordon sights.

USAF would rather sacrifice US bomber crews than carpet bomb narzzies.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Zoney on July 30, 2015, 12:06:32 PM

Do people fly at 30k, yes, but if you never go below 20k, your user experience will equate to MSFS. Borrrrrrring

I do not know what that means.

We all get charged up from different aspects of this wonderful game.  I assure you sir, I am doing exactly what I enjoy the most, most of the time.  I also enjoy squad nights on Tuesday, FSO's and Scenarios and the company of my squad mates.  I am not bored, I am constantly thrilled to play this game.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: nooby52 on July 30, 2015, 12:27:58 PM
We all get charged up from different aspects of this wonderful game.  I assure you sir, I am doing exactly what I enjoy the most, most of the time.  I also enjoy squad nights on Tuesday, FSO's and Scenarios and the company of my squad mates.  I am not bored, I am constantly thrilled to play this game.

^ ^ ^ ^
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Bear76 on July 31, 2015, 03:04:34 PM
The Jet Stream was probably the primary cause of the B-29s missing their targets when dropping from high altitudes.

Agreed
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: molybdenum on August 01, 2015, 08:25:49 AM
Okay, so he doesn't know the best way to get there, but the same guy at 30K appears to be fighting for the top spot <shrug>

Nope, my current #3 bomber pilot position is merely a combination of my wife being in Europe + the coincidental need for more Lancaster sorties than normal, given the strategic situations on the recent maps.
I've never understood the mindset of the town pork people (unless it is to try for that #1 spot). It's hard to imagine anything less entertaining and doesn't help one's side in the slightest. I never do it; so I doubt I will ever be #1.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Mongoose on August 01, 2015, 08:45:40 AM
I've never understood the mindset of the town pork people (unless it is to try for that #1 spot). It's hard to imagine anything less entertaining and doesn't help one's side in the slightest. I never do it; so I doubt I will ever be #1.

My guess:  They like watching things go Boom, and it's an easier target than the hangars.  For fun and/or practice, the town makes a good target.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Volron on August 01, 2015, 10:40:44 AM
Our lancasters carpet bombed at night no need for Nordon sights.

USAF would rather sacrifice US bomber crews than carpet bomb narzzies.

Germany didn't piss off the US, Japan did; and two of their cities vanished in less than a second. :bolt:
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Lusche on August 01, 2015, 11:22:23 AM
My guess:  They like watching things go Boom, and it's an easier target than the hangars.  For fun and/or practice, the town makes a good target.

common reasons:

- for boosting your score/stats
- for making big booms
- for farming perks. 2nd best target for that purpose after carriers (and much less difficult to hit)

That being said, I looked it up and found that 27 out of 296 bomber missions of mine this year had been town milk runs.  :joystick:
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Zimme83 on August 01, 2015, 01:57:42 PM
I cant remember i have done anyone yet, its not that hard to harvest bomber perks. It mess up base takes attempts by offsetting down times. Better way to get good bomber scores is to WF a town its just as easy and gives u 15k+ damage points.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Karnak on August 01, 2015, 07:15:18 PM
Our lancasters carpet bombed at night no need for Nordon sights.

USAF would rather sacrifice US bomber crews than carpet bomb narzzies.
By mid-1944 the Lancaster's bombing at night were more accurate than the B-17s bombing by day.  There were massive technological and technique improvements between 1941 and 1944.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: dirtdart on August 01, 2015, 07:33:50 PM
I absolutely loved going after havermyr .  He is amazing in those ki's. Respect H.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: mbailey on August 01, 2015, 08:03:50 PM
I absolutely loved going after havermyr .  He is amazing in those ki's. Respect H.

Heck of a nice guy to boot!!
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: JimmyD3 on August 02, 2015, 12:57:41 AM
My guess:  They like watching things go Boom, and it's an easier target than the hangars.  For fun and/or practice, the town makes a good target.
Town makes a much easier target.  :lol
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: JVboob on August 02, 2015, 02:15:56 AM
i typically have a wingman and when we see hiiiiiiiiigh 67s we work him like cattle. the only way we have found to kill ALL 3 of his buffs.

i fly buffs more lately than i use too, my tgt alt depends on what why when and where. bostons 300agl-8,000' 2 hangars or occasional town if hagars are dead. B26s 5,000-12,000' hangars/town or a string of dar, also my strat raid bomber. Ki67s 8,000-18,000' towns ords or town. Mossies are 20K+ everytime unless its a quiet arena or im leading a "droop snoot" mission. If they every add the B25J then ill be in it all the time hitting any target i please lol

Im rarely in 4 enginged bombers, so they dont count.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Zimme83 on August 02, 2015, 05:16:50 AM
Small (250lb and smaller) bombs are underestimated, they could be used to kill a lot of stuffs, Ki-67:s w 8x100kg can take down a factory to 65-70%, With 15x50kg it can take down both clusters in a town. Deacking in a level bomber is also a fun thing to do i have used Ki-67:s, a single Tu-2, TBM etc. There is a lot of interesting stuff u can do in bombers besides just overkilling targets w 1000lbs bombs.
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: JVboob on August 02, 2015, 07:40:26 AM
20K deack is fun in a TBM. with the 100lbrs
Title: Re: Just a quick question
Post by: Volron on August 02, 2015, 02:15:11 PM
By mid-1944 the Lancaster's bombing at night were more accurate than the B-17s bombing by day.  There were massive technological and technique improvements between 1941 and 1944.

Didn't you post a few pictures of rail yards hit by nighttime raids in comparison to those made in the daylight by the 8th, in another thread a year or so ago?  They were very accurate.