Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Gard06 on August 06, 2015, 07:23:26 AM
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Since downloading and trying to run the new AH III "open Alpha", it became very apparent that my old 8 year PC will not cut it. I am at 2 FPM in the tower! With all the eye candy off. WTF
I would like the pro's here to start letting us old guys know what we should be shopping for in a new gaming PC. I know, I know, we have all heard that we should wait until the game is officially out. However, if that alpha test game is anywhere near the finished product there will be a lot of people not flying until we either upgrade or buy and new complete gaming system. I am sure we have some idea what it will take to run it with all the eye candy on and with a frame rate better then 2.
If able, can we get some recommendations? Links to combos and systems we don't have to be a rocket scientist to work?
We should consider the lowest cost to the highest complete system recommendations.
Anybody?
:noid
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At this moment "wait" is indeed the best advice. The second best is to get as good a computer as you can afford - something that would run any game with ease.
Since we don't know the final requirements for AH3, any suggestions for the best bang for buck low budget rig would be wild guesses. Educated guesses, maybe, but guesses whatsoever. Something like MrRipley's build it or not! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,369865.0.html) or Brooke's $650 modified Dell (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,373771.msg4979190.html#msg4979190) should be quite safe bets also for AH3 with mid-class graphic quality.
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Again, if we wait there will be 75% less people in the game. Using the Alpha game as a guide, anyone can tell if they are going to have to buy a new system or a massive graphics card update. From what I can tell and what I have read is, the frame rate in AHIII is horrible because it now depends on GPU more the CPU. Those of us that have playing for almost two decades will have to buy new equipment just to play at the lowest level of settings.
The minimum requirements for the new AHIII is far greater then it is today, understandably. What is needed is some guidance on buying new systems and links to them, that would possible meet those standards.
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For a budget build the two I mentioned above are built for AH3 in mind. If your budget allows, mikev just built himself a sweet rig for about $2000 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,372743.msg4966002.html#msg4966002) in order it to serve him for several years.
If you don't want to build it yourself, look at the components of those and try to find a matching one readily built. If you want to build it yourself, do as the others and throw a list here for evaluation.
Without knowing where you're from, it's quite impossible to recommend you where to buy from. People here talk about Amazon, Tigerdirect, BestBuy, Newegg. I wouldn't buy from any of them, simply because they might not even ship to my home and if they did, the taxes and shipping costs would double the prices.
By the way, what do you mean by a complete system? Does that include peripherals like monitor, mouse, keyboard, stick, throttle, pedals... Or just the computer?
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Many of us do not have the time for a build our own "do it yourself system." I am looking for a link to a site we can purchase a computer that possible meets the new AHIII standards.
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I am wondering if something like this would be sufficient.
ASUS Desktop Computer GR6-R019R Intel Core i5 5200U (2.20GHz) 8GB DDR3 1TB HDD NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 2GB Windows 8.1
5 out of 5 eggs (1) | Write a Review
In stock.
Intel Core i5 5200U (2.20GHz)
8GB 1600MHz DDR3 Memory
1TB 7200rpm HDD
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 2GB
Windows 8.1
799.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA24G36F9438
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ASUS Desktop PC M32BF-US012S A8-Series APU A8-6500 (3.50GHz) 8GB DDR3 2TB HDD Windows 8.1 (64-Bit)
Eligible for free game offer, please go here after purchase
Be the first to review this product...
In stock.
A8-Series APU A8-6500 (3.50GHz)
8GB DDR3 2TB HDD
Windows 8.1 (64-Bit)
AMD Radeon HD 8570D
$439.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883220754
would that graphics card be ok?
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No need to panic. Most people will make bad purchasing decisions if they do. We still have a Beta period to go through and the current game will continue running in parallel during that as well. The Alpha is not done yet. It is still premature to talk about hardware requirements.
HiTech's current 7 year old computer runs the Alpha great. Intel E8400 CPU with GB of system RAM, Windows 7 64 bit, and an NVidia 660GTX video card (3 years old) with 2GB of video RAM.
What I am saying is, you may have a good core system and all that is needed is a video card upgrade. Certainly is up to the user as to whether or not they want to by a new computer.
That said, Windows XP 32 bit (32 bit anything actually) is going to be a tough operating system to get everything needed. A 64 bit operating system would be a good upgrade. Trying to cram everything into a single 4GB address space is getting really hard.
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CyberpowerPC Gaming Desktop AMD Configurator
Allow 5-7 Days for Assembly
View Details
1 × CYBERPOWERPC X-Titan Black/Red Full-Tower Gaming Case
Item #: N82E16811855011
1 × AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz(4.1GHz Turbo) CPU and AMD 760G Chipset Motherboard Combo
Item #: N82E16813456002
1 × AMD CPU Cooler
Item #: N82E16835118146
1 × Major Brand 500GB 7200 RPM SATA III 6.0
Item #: N82E16822826018
1 × G.Skill 8GB DDR3 1866MHz (2 X 4GB) RipJaws-X
Item #: N82E16820231763
1 × NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card (Require Min. 500W Power Supply)
Item #: N82E16814132045
1 × Corsair 500 Watt CX500 80+ Power Supply
Item #: N82E16817139094
1 × 24X DVD/CD Re-Writer Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16827468004
1 × Microsoft Windows 8.1 64 Bit - OEM
Item #: N82E16832416793
$851.91
AMD v Intel?
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Rather than AMD I'd choose Intel for CPU. There has been issues with AMD processors only using one core in AH and IIRC it still is somewhat of a lottery to get a model that will run it on more cores.
Your first suggestion is basically OK, but the processor is a little on the down side. Something above 3 GHz would be better. At Newegg I made this filtering (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100019096%20600014733%20600014730%20600014732%20600030537%20600554390%204814%20600537061&IsNodeId=1) for a starter. Even the cheapest would outperform the Asus you first mentioned. My personal favourite of that bunch is http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883102060 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883102060) for $1,099.99. The unavailable $719 Pentium G3258 version would have been my choice for a budget build.
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I am wondering if something like this would be sufficient.
ASUS Desktop Computer GR6-R019R Intel Core i5 5200U (2.20GHz) 8GB DDR3 1TB HDD NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 2GB Windows 8.1
5 out of 5 eggs (1) | Write a Review
In stock.
Intel Core i5 5200U (2.20GHz)
8GB 1600MHz DDR3 Memory
1TB 7200rpm HDD
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 2GB
Windows 8.1
799.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA24G36F9438
I am going to purchase and new PC anyway. The new update was a great excuse to the wife. :-) I am just researching what might be expected.
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ABS Commander ALI014 Desktop PC Intel i5-4690K (3.5GHz) 16GB DDR3 1TB HDD NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 4GB Win 8.1 64-Bit
Free Game: Metal Gear Solid V The Phantom Pain w/ purchase, limited time offer
3 out of 5 eggs (3) | Write a Review
In stock.
Intel Core-i5-4690K (3.5GHz)
16GB DDR3 |1TB HDD
Nvidia GTX 970 4GB
Tt eSPORTS Commander KB/MO
$1,099.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883102060
like
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I would not go below a 3GHZ CPU. We still need the CPU for a lot of the non-graphic work. If you are dead set on running with all the eye candy enabled (sans environment mapping), I would not get a video card with less than 2GB of dedicated video RAM.
If you want to run with real time environment mapping, consider an NVidia 980 Ti as the slowest card to get. It seems to do okay with full environment mapping, as long as anti-aliasing is off.
An NVidia 970 is probably the best bang for the buck video card in the 1920x1080 resolution marketplace.
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I am leaning towards this one. My credit card is burn a hole in my pocket, so this research will have to be fast. lol
CyberpowerPC Desktop PC Gamer Xtreme H170 Intel Core i5 4460 (3.2GHz) 8GB DDR3 500GB HDD Windows 8.1 64-Bit
Type: Gaming & Entertainment
Optical Drive Type: DVD±RW
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 2 GB
Part#: GXH170
Model #: Gamer Xtreme H170
Item #: N82E16883230007
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
$719.99
Save: 18%
$9.99 Shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883230007
any thoughts?
Add To Cart
?????
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Not bad, nor anything stellar either.
Of your suggestions I like CyberpowerPC more because they allow for customizing the component list to a higher quality. You never know what the "standard" no-name power supplies might do to the rest of your rig, for example. If you can wait a second I'll go through it for something I believe would be good.
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all ears :old:
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How about this, based on the Z97 i5 Configurator (http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/CyberPower_Z97_i5_Configurator)? The prices within parentheses indicate modifications to the original:
*BASE_PRICE: [+755]
CASE: ZALMAN Z3 Plus Black ATX Mid-Tower Gaming Case w/ USB 3.0 & Side-Panel Window [-72]
CD: 24X Double Layer Dual Format DVD+-R/+-RW + CD-R/RW Drive (BLACK COLOR)
CPU: Intel® Core™ i3-4360 3.70 GHz 4MB Intel Smart Cache LGA1150 [-100]
CS_FAN: Default case fans
FAN: DeepCool GAMMAXX 400 CPU Air Cooler 4 Heatpipes 120MM [-7]
HDD: 1TB SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 32MB Cache 7200RPM HDD (Single Drive)
IUSB: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
KEYBOARD: AZZA Multimedia USB Gaming Keyboard
MEMORY: 8GB (4GBx2) DDR3/2133MHz Dual Channel Memory (G.SKILL Ripjaws X)
MOTHERBOARD: GIGABYTE G1.Sniper Z97 ATX w/ Killer GbLAN, 2 PCIe x16, 3 PCIe x1, 2 PCI, Creative Sound Core3D / AMP-UP, 6x SATA 6Gb/s (All Venom OC Certified)
MOUSE: AZZA Optical 1600dpi Gaming Mouse with Weight Adjustable Cartridge
NETWORK: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network
OS: Windows 8.1 Pro (64-bit Edition) [+135]
POWERSUPPLY: 650 Watts - Corsair CSM Series CS650M 80 Plus Gold Certified Modular Ultra Quiet Power Supply [+64]
RUSH: Standard Process Time: Ship within 8 Business Day
SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR [3 Year Labor, 1 Year Parts] LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
VIDEO: EVGA Superclocked NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 2GB GDDR5 PCIe 3.0 x16 (Maxwell) [+114] (Single Card)
_PRICE: (+889)
You can cut the price down to $803 by changing the processor to Intel® Pentium™ Anniversary Edition G3258 3.2 GHz (overclocks amazingly well, up to 3.8 or so).
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Now that sounds like an excellent buy...Bizman I will be ordering this very soon.
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I was giving my computer to my son so he could play and just upgraded. My ONLY complaint is WIN 8.1. I just haven't caught up to the times of Windows navigation yet.
If you want to spend a little more, this computer rocks.
I was disappointed it didn't come with a keyboard, monitor, mouse, etc... But, this thing flies and I don't even hear the fans. I dust her every week just to be safe...
http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-x51-r2/pd?oc=dpcwxy03s&model_id=alienware-x51-r2
And I was able to set up an account with Dell. Since I sold my bike I was able to pay it off in a month...
But it is as sweet deal.
:rock
SlipKnoT
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Check out digital storm models. They are great computers for the price.
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I would not go below a 3GHZ CPU. We still need the CPU for a lot of the non-graphic work. If you are dead set on running with all the eye candy enabled (sans environment mapping), I would not get a video card with less than 2GB of dedicated video RAM.
If you want to run with real time environment mapping, consider an NVidia 980 Ti as the slowest card to get. It seems to do okay with full environment mapping, as long as anti-aliasing is off.
An NVidia 970 is probably the best bang for the buck video card in the 1920x1080 resolution marketplace.
kinda surprised the 980 ti is the slowest . about the only card to compare was the titan unless you want to 2nd mortgage the house
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I think he meant lowest.
I was finally able to get my GTX 980s to do full environment by overclocking the cards, and that still holds 4k at 60fps.
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kinda surprised the 980 ti is the slowest . about the only card to compare was the titan unless you want to 2nd mortgage the house
A better way to say it. If you want to run with full environment mapping and still maintain good frame rates, then the NVidia 980 Ti is what you are going to want to get. The 970 will struggle.
That one feature is the most intense graphic feature any video card can do.
All the other graphic features can be done with much slower video cards and done quite well. Kicking the environment mapping slider to 1, or None will usually give a great boost in performance.
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kinda surprised the 980 ti is the slowest . about the only card to compare was the titan unless you want to 2nd mortgage the house
It's not as surprising as it first looks. Environment mapping is the hardest task for a video card. When the slider was introduced in AH a few of years ago, there was no card that could run AH with Environment Mapping on full without sacrificing FPS. Now there's a couple of them. Back then we had a lengthy thread about running everything on max (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,338724.0.html). Most of those saying they could do that had to admit they still had Environment Mapping off or at 1/4.
And while I was typing, Skuzzy and Chalenge explained the thing I first thought you were asking about.
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From what I can tell and what I have read is, the frame rate in AHIII is horrible because it now depends on GPU more the CPU. Those of us that have playing for almost two decades will have to buy new equipment just to play at the lowest level of settings.
The minimum requirements for the new AHIII is far greater then it is today, understandably. What is needed is some guidance on buying new systems and links to them, that would possible meet those standards.
I have some unresolved issues with the alpha with regards to water. But I can tell you right now my current system was built in November of 2008. Here is my AAR at the time
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,253159.msg3120878.html#msg3120878
The only change I've made is to the video card which is now a GTX 650 Ti.
The ONLY issues I have and have had had running the alpha is with the water rendering PERIOD. And even that isnt always consistant
The only real frame rate issues I've had over land was with everything turned all the way up while using 4096 textures where FRs would drop into the low 20s and then usually only over the field. Which given the system specs and the age of the system combined with the fact Im still running XP
As a matter of fact. I just gave it a try to confirm this.
Using lower texture settings I can run the game pretty good even with most of the graphics turned up though it does seem to run best at its default settings (minus the water issue) In fact if it wasnt for the water issue I'd say this machine runs the game pretty damn good for its age and specs
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At 2048 textures, the environment set at 2 and all other graphics set to high .I can get frame-rates over the field and surrounding area ranging from the upper 30's to the mid 40's.
Which IMO is well within playability
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Question regarding the 980 ti and Titan-
Despite performing very similarly with many games/tests, will the Titan be a better performing card due to having 2x the RAM (I know I've read that the RAM will be important for AH3/whatever it's called)? Just trying to figure out what to keep and move around with a new build. Not an issue of bang/$, I'd just like to know if the Titan would outperform the 980ti with the environmental cranked as was mentioned, due to the extra RAM or not.
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Question regarding the 980 ti and Titan-
Despite performing very similarly with many games/tests, will the Titan be a better performing card due to having 2x the RAM (I know I've read that the RAM will be important for AH3/whatever it's called)? Just trying to figure out what to keep and move around with a new build. Not an issue of bang/$, I'd just like to know if the Titan would outperform the 980ti with the environmental cranked as was mentioned, due to the extra RAM or not.
most test i have checked out rate the titan and 980 ti pretty even . my first thought was the titan until the 980 ti came out. i have run the alpha at full graphic setting with my ti and held solid 60 fps. my only concern was heat as it ran it to 83 c which is to high for me . but i solved that problem installing msi afterburner where i could set the fan speeds. in your case its a choice you have to make . i have a you tube video posted with graphics at full maxed setting . to me the $400 saving with the 980 ti was the better choice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqwICWzx3JI
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I have already tested 4k in surround on the Titan Z (11520x2160). Frame rates dropped to less than half of what a GTX 980 can do on a single monitor (8-15fps versus a solid 60). Memory was not an issue. It might do better with the settings adjusted, but I just wanted to see if it would do it. If you used two Titan Zs and the EVGA X99 Classified you might even be able to squeeze in a SBZ for better audio, but after using 144Hz by comparison I doubt you would do it for long.
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Give me about two weeks...(I know, I know...everything is two weeks away.)
I am part of the Beta test team, though I run into the issue of 10-15 frame rate with no one else near by and eye candy turned off. I have an older, small tower Dell Optiplex 760 with a weak video card, though I get 60 frame rate in AH2. I double checked and I can upgrade to a 1G video card for about $60. Now I need to find the time, thus the two weeks.
Once I upgrade my older computer with a new video card I'll let you know what it's like. I'm hopeful this is the simple requirement for nirvana. Regardless of results, I'll post.
boo
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The added RAM of the Titan will be of no benefit. Anything with over 2GB of video RAM is going to overkill, right now. That does not mean it can change. HiTech is not done yet.
Be careful. It is not just about the RAM. An NVidia *20 with 1GB of video RAM will run badly just because the GPU is horribly inefficient/slow.
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Rgr, thanks for the info/clarification Skuzzy. Is this the case for UHD resolutions as well? I read that 6gp was recommended for UHD resolutions, will 12 make any difference in that case? I have the Titan, just trying to decide if I should swap it into a new build or buy a 980ti for it, as it's primarily going to be for AH.
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Rgr, thanks for the info/clarification Skuzzy. Is this the case for UHD resolutions as well? I read that 6gp was recommended for UHD resolutions, will 12 make any difference in that case? I have the Titan, just trying to decide if I should swap it into a new build or buy a 980ti for it, as it's primarily going to be for AH.
4GB to 6GB should be plenty for UHD. Once you get passed that, the GPU can start being the bottleneck. I am not convinced this generation of video card is really ready for UHD. The only reason they can play it right now is the gaming industry has not made a complete switch to 4K textures, for everything.
The industry seems to be chasing its tail, at the moment. The current crop of UHD capable video cards is that way due to the games not making extensive use of the large format textures which are needed to really show off that UHD resolution. Yet, if they were here today, the GPU's would run out of performance before they ran out of RAM. It is a bit of a quagmire for the bleeding edge enthusiast.
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Ok thanks again.
That's pretty much how I'm left feeling. I'm not sure what Chalenge feels/thinks, but it's probably a similar attitude, as I know he's one of the other AH members who uses UHD. I've got a 4k and probably the best 1440p monitor, but find the whole experience of UHD in many games so far...I don't know, lacking I guess. I'm still going to stay near the tip of the spear though, and plan on trying to run max including environmental with the new version once it gets into beta/etc a lot more.
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I think it's still a lag filled experience on a single card and that having to overclock to make things better is an indication that it's just too soon. The only way to make this viable is for every device in your system to be a peak performer, meaning $900 RAM (3000MHz), 2 x $1k video cards (Titan Z SLI), top of the line processor (or e5 if you're just crazy), and even NAS HDDs (because wasting SSD space on games is also crazy). Once you do all that you get hit in the face with just a handful of games to showcase the expense, so what have you really accomplished?
I'm hoping this fall there will be cheaper UHD monitors and next Spring will bring new hardware.
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Well, this is what I came up with. I just need to decide on a good CPU Cooler.
Any comments or suggestion are welcome.
OS System Item#: N82E16832116992 $139.00
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit - OEM
Case Item#: N82E16811139015 $109.00
Corsair Vengeance Series C70 Military Green Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
PSU Item#: N82E16817139011 $149.00
CORSAIR HX Series HX850 850W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
CPU Item#: N82E16819117369 $340.00
Intel Core i7-4790K Devil’s Canyon Quad-Core 4.0 GHz LGA 1150 BX80646I74790K Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4600
Mother Board Item#: N82E16813131976 $270.00
ASUS SABERTOOTH Z87 LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Hard Drive Item#: N82E16822236244 $129.99
Western Digital WD VelociRaptor WD5000HHTZ 500GB 10000 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive Bare Drive - OEM
CD / DVD Item#: N82E16827135240 $27.99
ASUS DVD Burner 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 24X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model DRW-24B3ST/BLK/G/AS
Memory Item#: N82E16820233237 $250.00
CORSAIR Vengeance 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 Desktop Memory Model CMZ32GX3M4X1866C10
Video Card Item#: N82E16814121978 $209.00
ASUS Radeon R9 380 STRIX-R9380-DC2OC-4GD5-GAMING 4GB 256-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
Total-- $1,623.98
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Many of us do not have the time for a build our own "do it yourself system." I am looking for a link to a site we can purchase a computer that possible meets the new AHIII standards.
Digital Storm
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A better way to say it. If you want to run with full environment mapping and still maintain good frame rates, then the NVidia 980 Ti is what you are going to want to get. The 970 will struggle.
That one feature is the most intense graphic feature any video card can do.
All the other graphic features can be done with much slower video cards and done quite well. Kicking the environment mapping slider to 1, or None will usually give a great boost in performance.
If hitech plays with a 660 card. Why would a 970 card struggle? The comp I purchased has a 970 card
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HiTech uses a video card which better serves to represent performance levels needed by the code.
In other words, A 970 or 980 card could masked performance issues a slower card would show. Not the best circumstance when you want to optimize your code.
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I suppose your question was on the last line of the quote, since Skuzzy's original post didn't include that line.
If hitech plays with a 660 card. Why would a 970 card struggle? The comp I purchased has a 970 card
Simple answer: He doesn't play with all features maxxed. There's a reason for that: Using a mediocre system for development he sets himself in the shoes of average Joe's, the majority of the clientele. An affordable system automatically sets the limits for an enjoyable playing experience. That enables the less equipped to play at a tolerable level, yet allowing the gear enthusiasts enjoy their toys. Errmh... Hope I didn't express myself in too a complicated way.
[Edit] And again, Skuzzy was faster than me... [/edit]