Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on September 25, 2015, 05:09:07 AM
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“We are now proud to extend our partnership with a new, mutually beneficial collaboration,” Boeing Chief Executive Officer Dennis Muilenburg told airline officials, employees and reporters gathered in a factory bay in Everett, Washington.
Details of the new agreements remain vague. The “general terms agreement” announced Wednesday covers orders and commitments for 190 single-aisle 737s and 50 wide-body jetliners, although models and customers weren’t disclosed. Lessors ICBC Financial Leasing Co. and CDB Leasing Co. are taking another 60 737s. It’s not clear how many of the orders already have been placed and marked as “unidentified” in Boeing’s order book.
China is poised to displace the U.S. as the world’s biggest aircraft and travel market in two decades, according to Boeing. The center would be Boeing’s largest industrial expansion outside the U.S. The center will be operated jointly with Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China Ltd.
The joint-venture partners are working with Chinese government officials on a final business agreement and will announce the facility’s location and the timing of first deliveries later, Boeing said.
Boeing also said it would broaden its agreement with Aviation Industry Corp. of China, a supplier, to add major component and assembly work packages.
Boeing announced that it had won $38 billion (list price value) worth of orders — though standard discounts mean the actual value is $19 billion — from China for narrowbody 737 aircraft and 50 widebody aircraft. Investors did not find this news to be a reason to celebrate — Boeing stock fell 1.73% after the news and another 0.84% in the after-market.
No word on how many American jobs were eliminated or how passengers will know if they are flying on a Chinese 737.
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The chi-comm planes only take off, they don't land
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They'll land but in 100 pieces, and in lead paint too
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It cracks me up how assuming the uninformed are.
They will be finishing the interiors of the planes in China. Yes. A "Green" airplane (interior wise, those in the biz know what this means) will continue to be assembled, test flown, pilot check out here state side.
Once it passes all inspections, then it will be flown over to China for the final interiors installation based on the customer's design request.
Considering 1 out of 4 - 737's are sold to Chinese airlines this actually relives the pressure on the Renton line allow more planes to go out the door, delivered sooner (than the current wait time of 5 years) and directly competes with what Airbus is already doing.
As a reasonably large shareholder of stock in our company I applaud them for moving in the right direction as it is good for shareholder value.
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Ohhh no, how are going to spray chemtrails? ! :(
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I told you all this last month even before news was released :rofl
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Last month you was talking about pies and pie accessories
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Last month you was talking about pies and pie accessories
Ohhhhhhh,...I thought he was talking about seven hundred and thirty seven pies!
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There has been some union grumbling that they are being cut out of future work by this move to china for the interior finishing. How much future work and union job security does the China work really impact?
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Pies are the future :old:
Pies are the cake :old:
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I was on a brand new -9ER last week, "I should have taken pictures", wait I did. Beautiful airplane and definitely not the 737 your Daddy flew on. It was two weeks old and still had that "new plane" smell. I would have taken a picture of me in the Capt. seat but the Capt. had Father /son friends sitting there and I thought let the kid get as much seat time as he could he looked so thrilled sitting there.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/WP_20150917_0011_zps3ip2bzyh.jpg)
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It's an aluminum dildo with wings, just like all modern airliners. Efficient it is. Beautiful it is not.
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It's great to build stuff in China. Not only does China get paid for the work, but they get to steal all of the technology and trade-secret knowledge as a free additional benefit. It's win-win!
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It's great to build stuff in China. Not only does China get paid for the work, but they get to steal all of the technology and trade-secret knowledge as a free additional benefit. It's win-win!
China would get it either way, whether it be a US Citizen stealing it for them or our US Gov't essentially handing it over to them (Thanks Bill)
MD did the same thing in the 90's, Airbus is established over in China, Boeing is a late comer.
Combine that with the China Russia merger that will create a company to directly compete with Airbus/Boeing in the wide body range, well, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" applies.
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I wonder if the US is the leading consumer of tinfoil yet...
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I wonder if the US is the leading consumer of tinfoil yet...
Does this apply to my comment on China stealing tech?
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I hope not, Brooke. Your comment was completely accurate!
I'd say I'd sooner believe that movie of yours 'Final Countdown' happened than believe the Chinese aren't stealing.
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Does this apply to my comment on China stealing tech?
No, that is actually quite accurate, though it is also broadly accurate because their us not one nation on this earth that would not steal whatever information available to give them a leg up.
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Still no word on how many American jobs this will cost?
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Still no word on how many American jobs this will cost?
Current or future?
Current. 0.
I'd rather see Boeing remain competitive and earn $$ than not and lose money, lose jobs.
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No word on how many American jobs were eliminated or how passengers will know if they are flying on a Chinese 737.
I like chinese takeaways.
Why dont you vote in the next elections to stop Americans losing jobs, in fact why dont you vote 5 days a week :old:
I thought China was determined to destroy the yanky imperialists?
Dont you think you should get out your pitch forks?
By the way i dont remember any so called highly educated aircraft engineer doing me any favours :old:
Clowns like me will always be able to do crap jobs do get by, because i live within my
Means.
Its all in that book written in 1870's that envokes a immediate ban :rofl
Colonials crying is very funny MAN UP! And take the pain :old:
The only ones who can be anoyed are those who fought in korea or vietnam :salute
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I like chinese takeaways.
Why dont you vote in the next elections to stop Americans losing jobs, in fact why dont you vote 5 days a week :old:
I thought China was determined to destroy the yanky imperialists?
Dont you think you should get out your pitch forks?
By the way i dont remember any so called highly educated aircraft engineer doing me any favours :old:
Clowns like me will always be able to do crap jobs do get by, because i live within my
Means.
Its all in that book written in 1870's that envokes a immediate ban :rofl
Colonials crying is very funny MAN UP! And take the pain :old:
The only ones who can be anoyed are those who fought in korea or vietnam :salute
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Current or future?
Current. 0.
I'd rather see Boeing remain competitive and earn $$ than not and lose money, lose jobs.
They will become increasingly competitive and profitable with every American job they cut.
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Guess who won't be buying anymore boeings. This guy!
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I told you all this last month even before news was released :rofl
I'm assuming you sold just before the announcement to catch the pre-announcement run-up "leakage", then called an uninformed stockholder friend just before the announcement and left him a voice message that sounded uncannily like a flushing toilet.
Let me check: did it dump or go up after the announcement? Well, scheisse howdy, guess I nailed it.
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Guess who won't be buying anymore boeings. This guy!
:rofl :aok
I went to the Boeing tour recently at the giant hangar complex where they assemble 747's, 787's, etc. (many of them at once, all in one building). It was awesome. The guide (after talking to us about a 747 costing about $400 million) showed us a 747 on the line and told us that it was bought as a birthday present for a teenage girl whose brother recently got one for his 18th birthday by a father who already has one. None of us had to guess where that family was from. I thought that it was hilarious. It brought to mind the book "Why Nations Fail", by Acemoglu and Robinson, and its discussions of governments that coercively extract the wealth of their populace to enrich a tiny portion of the rulers.
I love Boeing. I don't want them to get ripped off, but I will assume that they know what they are doing.
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No, that is actually quite accurate, though it is also broadly accurate because their us not one nation on this earth that would not steal whatever information available to give them a leg up.
It's true that companies have to be worried about theft anywhere, but there are regions where it is state sponsored, heavily pursued by people very capable of doing it and utilizing the results, and where courts are not on your side (the former Soviet Union and currently China) where the risk therefore is gigantically greater than most places.
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They will become increasingly competitive and profitable with every American job they cut.
Have they cut any American jobs due to this announcement? If so, show us.
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It's great to build stuff in China. Not only does China get paid for the work, but they get to steal all of the technology and trade-secret knowledge as a free additional benefit. It's win-win!
Trust me...after more than 30 years in these things, there isn't any technology in a 737 that's worth stealing.
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It cracks me up how assuming the uninformed are.
Yes it is a pain in the butt, however there is larger issue here isn't there?
That would be the potential loss of more jobs here in the United States. It drives a lot of commentary and opinions behind the headlines.
Global economies are scary to some of us. And while we might not understand the economics of the 'greater good', we do understand that a large number of baby boomers and new job holders alike were driven out of their jobs because businesses (the basic unit of the global economy) moved the jobs to other countries. It was never dramatic...just a few jobs here and there...but over time it equated to many jobs and unemployment in numbers not seen since the 1930's.
While this might not be the case with the Boeing plan, and I trust that you know more than I do, Rip, it might be very confusing to the craftsmen at Boeing or their sub-contractors that have done that work in the past. My first reaction, I confess, was negative. I'm tired of global marketing driving bad behavior (bad because it is not good for our country in the long run).
If our multi-national companies are driving behavior detrimental to the well-being of the citizens of our own country then you can accuse me of having a nationalist sentiment. If it's not good for our country as a priority, then it simply isn't any good. If we don't take care of ourselves, who will? I know that's not a popular notion with some but, well, that's the way I see it. Milo Minderbinder was fictional character wasn't he? Ummm. These days, I'm not so sure.
With respect.
:salute
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"Take care of ourselves" :rofl
Do you think the President has any real power or the "People"
I would not wish anyone to lose thier jobs.
There will no revolutions only more TV channels.
I stopped reading 'real" books years ago, not the kak on wikidiot or those massage ego justyfying kak you all read.
Comsumerism is awesone.
The new update is awesome.
Its the Iluminaty or lizard mens fault.
I wonder what the new Adolf is doing at the moment :old:
Waiting me thinks :)
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Zack rules. :old:
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I wonder what the new Adolf is doing at the moment :old:
Actually, I'm at work right now.
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Its the Iluminaty or lizard mens fault.
Zack, they aren't supposed to know about the Lizard Men until after the "event"!
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Trust me...after more than 30 years in these things, there isn't any technology in a 737 that's worth stealing.
There usually still is know how that businesses should protect, even for 737's and even for Coca Cola. Consider GM and cars. Until I worked there, I would have thought that there is no new tech to worry about being stolen for something as mundane as a car. Then I worked for Chevy Engineering for a few years and saw why places still have to be concerned about industrial espionage. There are tech tweaks even to things that seem mundane. There is a lot of tech not just in the product itself but in the equipment that makes or tests the product. There are processes that, while not being patentable technologies, are ways of doing things that work well but are not generally known.
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I wonder what the new Adolf is doing at the moment :old:
Waiting me thinks :)
Zack - you are quite hopeless but in an amusing and thoughtful way. That is why you totally rule the remnants. In darker moments one can see the historical parallels between the decline of the post-war British Empire and what is happening to America today.
History will be kinder to you than us, perhaps. The dismantling of the greatest empire in history could have occurred with a lot less grace. Americans are watching their own decline in the guise of 'Whiney Babies'. Disgusting, yes? To one of your inferences, there is nothing more frightening in the world than a potential resurrection of nationalism. But they are not saying that in Tehran, Beijing or Moscow. Rushing to fill the vacuum?
Read more kak is my advice to you. It helps one get through the darker moments.
Ashamed of three paragraphs for simple thoughts,
:salute
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To one of your inferences, there is nothing more frightening in the world than a potential resurrection of nationalism. But they are not saying that in Tehran, Beijing or Moscow. Rushing to fill the vacuum?
I note that, in Germany, and in an interesting historical parallel to the last time internationalism was thrust on Der Volk, the nationalist party has also seen a resurgence, not that German nationalism is any cause for concern...
My own take: there is much to say for nationalism. We could use a dose of it here regarding the wholesale export of US capital. An intelligent incentives-based industrial policy might be worthwhile. Consider Norwegian and Korean shipbuilding as an upside of a nationalist industrial policy.
Of course, some of the other elements of it can be more troublesome, but, as with all of the 'isms", implementation to fact is a critical and often damning step.
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You can fight it all you want but its just bussines. Boing makes more planes, good for them. Airbus did not get the contract :bolt:
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You can fight it all you want but its just bussines. Boing makes more planes, good for them. Airbus did not get the contract :bolt:
I'm actually okay with it myself. I note that we here at the Big F make sure that we take as much advantage as we can of low cost country sourcing. It's a competitiveness and survival issue.
However, I think it behooves the US government to try to incentivize on-shoring. Understand, our corporate rates are very high. While corporation pass taxes on to the consumer, there is an asymmetry if you're a US based corporation paying the top rate in the world trying to compete with a foreign competitor who pays a lower rate. You get a penalty for being US-based, effectively.
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Korean ship building :rofl
where do they get the money to build ships :rofl
Japan.... they were told by US to invest in Korea or trade tariffs would be envoked by the US :rofl
google it :rofl
Free markets :rofl :rofl
Not been a free market since 1946
blah blah blah :rofl
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Korean ship building :rofl
where do they get the money to build ships :rofl
Japan.... they were told by US to invest in Korea or trade tariffs would be envoked by the US :rofl
THAT'S an example of Industrial Policy - and No, it is not a Free Market mechanism. But it has its' upside. Norway does something similar internally with some hide-the-pea cost relief. Fungibility...
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See Rule #14
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:rofl
I am going to bed to dream about AHIII.
:)
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Fungibility...
I have seen that term used in the conversations justifying the movement of jobs off-shore.
"Tech workers are fungible. Manage to that." - Advice given to senior management at a company I once worked for.
I can't tell you how much I hate it when savvy businessmen equate people with families to sacks of grain (or name a commodity).
But I might be going all Pinko. I'm glad Zack is sleeping at this hour.
:salute
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"Tech workers are fungible. Manage to that." - Advice given to senior management at a company I once worked for.
Businesses that "manage to that" are fungible.
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What I'm talking about when I use the word fungi limits is the subsidy issue.
You should know me better than that Brooke.
Consider, for example, the central bank of Japan holding the dollar up by holding dollars on account -dollars that were exchanged for yen because of payments made by Americans to Japanese importers.
Is that a subsidy to Japanese companies that sell goods in the US? It certainly helps them achieve cost parity, thus driving revenue. It certainly is a bill footed by the Japanese government.
Fungible: money is the thing to which I'm referring, and if you want to see examples of who is exploiting it, just look at those nations holding large dollar reserves.
For the record, no, not all things can be off-shored. There are good shippers and bad, as well as sizable differences, including qualitative in all factors of production.
My point above: it sure would be nice if the US government weren't providing a tax disparity in that most fungible of things, thus encouraging capital flight.
Otherwise, pardon my buzzword.
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You should know me better than that Brooke.
Sorry, PJ. I meant no offense. I wasn't commenting on your stuff -- just the quote from Ratsy's former employer.
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Roger, good in the hood... :salute
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Have they cut any American jobs due to this announcement? If so, show us.
I was just agreeing with you. The more American jobs they cut, the more Boeing profits. As far as this announcement, every unit that would have been completed here is cut, thus jobs lost. I'm curious how many that is. I've never partnered with a communist government before.
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:rofl
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I've never partnered with a communist government before.
Yeah, so I often wonder if the day will come when the Chinese government nationalizes everything we've "invested" with some kind words, "hey, thanks for capitalizing the PRC, now read the shoe and get the f*** out <boot>!". That's what you can only call "political risk".
However, to call modern China communist is to confuse the name with the thing. I've spent time in Nanjing. That place is communist in name only. It's open for business, has private ownership, and is very much profit-driven. It's a bit more of a synthetic, call it crony capitalist, much like most of the west these days.
Chinese traffic: Jesus tap-dancing christ...
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It's an aluminum dildo with wings, just like all modern airliners. Efficient it is. Beautiful it is not.
Quiet, grown ups are talking.
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Gozilla is talking nonsene :old:
The Chinese are going to burn down the Whitehouse!
I dont want a little red book :cry
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Come now, Zack, admit it. You're just upset because the colliery shut down and moved operations to Chongqing and all the coal miners ended up on the dole living in council estates. Don't worry, there's always the BNP and marching and tinkering. now, you know I hate to see a grown man cry, so off with you.
As for burning down the White House, isn't it about time? You guys tried it in 1812 but, back then, people would've been more upset about it. Nowadays, they'll just stand on the lawn and watch amused as the WFD hoses down the embers.
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Anyone read "One Second After" ?
What happens with the Chinese regarding the US at the end of the book? :lol
It's why I have a Chinese SKS and scotch tape to assist my round eye droop. :rolleyes:
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I am chinese :old:
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Wir sind alle...
or, at least maybe soon.
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I am chinese :old:
I think that you are turning Chinese. I really think so.
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Anyone read "One Second After" ?
Yep. And without preparation by the US (which would be quite cheap and easy to do if only we would decide to do it), we are hugely vulnerable to N. Korea, Iran (once [can't talk about it] helps them get nuclear weapons), Pakistan, and any group that manages to get even one nuke on a crappy rocket into a shipping container off our coast.
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I think that you are turning Chinese. I really think so.
Hmm... I guess masturbation needs a new metaphor.
I got your picture. I got your picture...