General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: pelota on October 08, 2015, 04:59:39 PM
Title: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: pelota on October 08, 2015, 04:59:39 PM
Greetings, folks,
I need some input from some of you smart computer folks out there: when playing AH, I have too much input lag from my 55 inch Vizio smart TV(even when it is in gaming mode). It gets very frustrating when missing the shot once you are on someone's six o'clock and, even worse, when going for deflection shots. I know that it is not an issue of my gunnery, as, even when I account for lead and other gunnery factors, my bullets seem to be doing little to nothing, even from 200 out! Yes, all other game settings have been optimized, including all gunnery options in the controls area.... So, now I have two questions: first, how do you precisely calculate (in milliseconds) your smart TV's lag time? Second, since I am convinced that it is an input lag issue, since I am using a TV monitor and not a CPU monitor, what large gaming monitor (greater than 30 inches) do you guys recommend? Curved gaming monitors, anyone? Which is easy to setup, has good colors and the least lag time? Any recommendations are much appreciated. And by the way, I did consider a triple monitor setup, but the downside to that is the side monitors picture distortions, which may require some getting used to--I would much prefer to use a single monitor.... Any input is greatly appreciated! :salute
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: Oddball-CAF on October 08, 2015, 06:28:05 PM
I'd been giving some thought to grabbing a new monitor Pelota and find this thread which you might find helpful.
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: pelota on October 08, 2015, 08:21:11 PM
Oddball-CAF,
Thanks for the reply. If money was not an issue, would you pick a single monitor or would you do a triple monitor setup? If you decide to go with a single monitor, think a wide screen is best? I am looking for one with the lowest response time (1ms). Most have 5ms response time--I honestly do not know if there is a big difference from a practical standpoint.... But one thing I do know, playing on a TV screen does cause major input lag.... Your thoughts?
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: pelota on October 08, 2015, 08:37:49 PM
Actually, in re-reading the link that you have sent me, it seems that wide monitors have more lag than others (per Mr.Ripley's response)?
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: The Fugitive on October 08, 2015, 09:13:59 PM
I use a 49 inch Insignia TV 1080p I have no noticeable "input lag". I thought about the 3 monitor idea, but I wanted a bigger view, not a wider view. AH view system either the buttons, or with TrackIR easily make up for the missing view in the 3 wide setup.
I sit about 4 feet back from my screen and can almost count the rivets on the planes when they fly by close, heck I know how ugly Odd-CAF is.... sorry boss but it's true. :D
I have played this game a long time (11 years) and it wasn't until recently I got a decent handle on gunnery. You didn't give your in-game name so I cant check back and pull the data on your career in AH. How long have you been playing? what kind of plane do you spend your time flying? Do you jump from plane to plane a lot or do you stick to one kind? Gunnery in this game isn't easy and takes a lot of practice. Before you go blowing a bunch of cash ..... unless this isn't a problem for you, in which case , Can I be your friend? :D Lets see if we can help with your aim first.
Post a film or two of a fight or two, let us know what your convergence is set at. Lets see if it is you missing, or your equipment.
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: Chalenge on October 09, 2015, 08:39:49 AM
I use a Philips BDM4065UC, which is a 40" 4k monitor. I love it, and I have never noticed any type of lag. However, 4k for most systems is not a viable option because even the most powerful video cards of today struggle to hold 60 fps. My system holds 60 fps in AHII, and AHIII, but of course AHIII will probably change before it comes out of Alpha. That said. . .
A wide screen does make everything bigger and it is easier to shoot and hit what you aim at in AH, but there are caveats. If your system is not up to pushing the resolution you are using (like 4k) you may hit the lag issue, or 'stutter,' 'sticky frames,' 'slideshow' etc. depending on the setup. Fortunately, there are many methods to get smooth frame rates and that is the number one goal of gaming is to get smooth, consistent frames and not just a large screen.
If you do get a large screen, then I recommend a curved screen if you can find one that suits your other demands. A curved screen is not a primary need, but it will avoid the parallax view issue of screens that enter into your peripheral vision (wide screens can cause your brain to interpret the screen as being bulged in the center when it is not).
If you use a TrackIR type device then you should consider that you might have to affix the IR pickup below the top of the monitor, unless you are nearly seven foot tall.
All of this aside, from your description of your gunnery I do not think that a new monitor is going to fix things for you. I think you should spend some time in practice (training) in scaling your stick so that you might fly more smoothly. Usually, unintended rudder input (twisty sticks in particular), and touchy stick inputs will ruin your gunnery. In this game you absolutely must be able to put a reliable, steady weight-of-fire upon your target, or your target will just fly away.
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: WWhiskey on October 09, 2015, 08:56:58 AM
Still using the Samsung 42inch LED! No regrets, no problems!
I've never noticed any lag,, but I've used this setup so long I'm not sure I'd know if I had any!
I've have used the triple head monitor setup,, I like this much better,, If I was going to upgrade and money was not limited tho,, I'd do three 40 inch LEDs and I'd stand them on end with the triple head setup
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: ebfd11 on October 09, 2015, 12:03:15 PM
I have a triple setup on my rig and I can say i love it... you can see people before you are given a check six or with out having to use the view keys... or spotting a gv off to your side
The yellow represents the single monitor 1920X1080 and as you can see I cant see the Turtle off to the side... in the yellow box... but with the triple screen I can... I am looking to get 2 more IPS panels when I can afford them to use my other setup as a triple monitor...
*DISCLAIMER* The yellow box is not a full 1920 X 1080 but a good representation of it.. and yes the view on the side 2 monitors is slightly stretched but after awhile you do get used to it.
LawnDart
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: pelota on October 09, 2015, 01:57:31 PM
Fugitive: thanks for the reply, sir. Let us start out as follows: sure, you certainly can be my friend! As to my background: I flew Air Warrior for years before I gave up flight sims for many years, then came back to AH2. While I do agree that it is a different game, I think that, overall, the genre is the same and the flying principles are the same.... With regards to gunnery, my convergence in the P38 (pretty much all I fly) is set to 400, both for cannons and machine guns. I realize that gunnery takes skill, but to consistently miss from 400 or 200 out, getting no pings on the enemy, has more to do with my setup lag. I am connected to a big HD Vizio 55 inch smart TV, driven by a top of the line Alienware CPU with killer graphics, getting nothing short of 55-60 fps. I use a TM Warthog Hotas and the Saitek Pro pedals, along with TIR-5. My stick setup has been configured to the proper settings, as per the advice on scaling that many here have posted about.... What's missing? Seeing plane parts fly off when I'm firing dead center on them from 200 or 400 out! I can only attribute that to input lag, since my plane and controls have been properly trimmed.... I definitely want to give a CPU monitor a try (perhaps a curved one per above recommendations) to see if my suspicions are true.... Wish there was an in-game input lag detector, but that seems far off... Anyways, I definitely appreciate all the input!
-flea
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: FLS on October 09, 2015, 02:13:22 PM
Post a film of the shots that you think should be causing more damage.
How is your offline deflection shooting on drones?
I seriously doubt that monitor lag is a factor here but reducing lag is always good. You don't have access to a PC monitor for a quick comparison test?
I have never heard that proper set up and good equipment will result in hits on the target. I question that assumption.
AW had easy gunnery. AH has real physics. It seems likely you're just missing, film will tell.
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: FLS on October 09, 2015, 02:18:35 PM
*DISCLAIMER* The yellow box is not a full 1920 X 1080 but a good representation of it.. and yes the view on the side 2 monitors is slightly stretched but after awhile you do get used to it.
LawnDart
The 3 monitor wideview is not stretched or distorted. Parallel lines have to diverge as they get closer, just like they have to converge in the distance. It looks odd because you can't focus on your peripheral vision but you can focus on your peripheral monitors.
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: Bizman on October 09, 2015, 02:46:05 PM
Pelota, a rather inexpensive way to test the effect of input lag is to use a crt monitor. They don't suffer from it. For testing, if your video card supports multiple monitors, set your current tv and a crt into clone mode. If the input lag is very bad, you might be able to see it even with your eyes. The official testing method is something like filming a stopwatch with a high speed camera and comparing the time shown on the monitors.
A crt monitor would also help you to determine whether it's the input lag or something else causing you to miss. One thing that comes into mind is that AH uses a wider FOW than most other flying sims. That can easily be adjusted in the video settings in the starting flash screen.
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: The Fugitive on October 09, 2015, 04:16:43 PM
Fugitive: thanks for the reply, sir. Let us start out as follows: sure, you certainly can be my friend! As to my background: I flew Air Warrior for years before I gave up flight sims for many years, then came back to AH2. While I do agree that it is a different game, I think that, overall, the genre is the same and the flying principles are the same.... With regards to gunnery, my convergence in the P38 (pretty much all I fly) is set to 400, both for cannons and machine guns. I realize that gunnery takes skill, but to consistently miss from 400 or 200 out, getting no pings on the enemy, has more to do with my setup lag. I am connected to a big HD Vizio 55 inch smart TV, driven by a top of the line Alienware CPU with killer graphics, getting nothing short of 55-60 fps. I use a TM Warthog Hotas and the Saitek Pro pedals, along with TIR-5. My stick setup has been configured to the proper settings, as per the advice on scaling that many here have posted about.... What's missing? Seeing plane parts fly off when I'm firing dead center on them from 200 or 400 out! I can only attribute that to input lag, since my plane and controls have been properly trimmed.... I definitely want to give a CPU monitor a try (perhaps a curved one per above recommendations) to see if my suspicions are true.... Wish there was an in-game input lag detector, but that seems far off... Anyways, I definitely appreciate all the input!
-flea
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I played AW as well, and shooting there was much easier than it is here. AW we shot lazers almost compared to here.
Here there is bullet drop due to gravity, there is drop due to the rounds loosing energy, there is the action of firing with out unloading your plane and so you spray your bullets like a water hose as your turning, and then there is just leading the target correctly. All of these things have to be thought of for each squeeze of the trigger.
Again, posting a film will show alot of how your shooting.
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: BaldEagl on October 09, 2015, 06:34:30 PM
I've only got an older 22" LG monitor but 2ms response time is fine. I tried another brand with 5ms response but it suffered from ghosting so I returned it.
I'm constrained by space and sit within 2-3' so it works for me.
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: The Fugitive on October 09, 2015, 08:24:10 PM
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: Zimme83 on October 10, 2015, 12:28:53 AM
Used to plug in the computer to the TV (50 in LED), worked just fine. Was awesome for spotting GV:s. Turning detailed terrain off made it possible to spot GV:s >5 miles away, my record is bombing a Wirble from 17k feet. CV hunting was also very easy, it was possible to spot the CV from just outside its dar ring.
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: Gman on October 11, 2015, 01:14:50 AM
I have NO experience with using a TV for a gaming monitor. I have a home theater setup with a 100"+ screen I use for surfing/etc, but only have tried games like Starcraft 2 and Aces High, and with AH only to pop in to check out the arena numbers and see who is online.
I have however used triple monitor setups as many here have - if you can afford it, it's an option you should at least check out, try and see one in a store or PC enthusiast shop if you can, or whatever. You can choose some pretty high end monitors, but as stated, need some horsepower to run them.
I cannot state enough that of all the options to make a gaming PC monitor "good" for gaming, 144hz refresh rate, or at least 120 (144hz is more common) makes the best difference IMO in terms of how games play. They allow up to 144 fps in many games, and it just looks better - many here who use 144hz monitors agree, and have posted about it in past threads this year.
1440p or 4k - I have one each of both, a 144hz 1440p monitor, and a 4k Acer - I honestly find that with most games, 1080p is fine, and works well - the difference between 1080p and 1440p in gameplay is there, and really noticeable in 4k, but for Aces High...I just prefer 1080p size resolutions for the size of the targets and whatnot.
There are some options nobody has really mentioned much here, sort of an inbetween of 3 screen and a large TV. Again, I have zip experience with TVs, but what I've read, they lack the capability to go to 144hz, which as I said, is likely the most important thing in a true "gaming" monitor, more than resolutions of 1440p or 4k, and more than Gsync (I have monitors with this feature, and while decent, isn't a must have IMO). Widescreen monitors like below might be up your alley, and there are 144hz options. Below are a couple examples.
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: morfiend on October 17, 2015, 04:31:42 PM
Flea,
Next time you show up in the TA ask me to help with this!
AW also had a hit bubble slightly larger than the target,AH uses a "hit bubble" that's the shape and size of the target!
Before you go spend money,try enabling the lead calculating gunsite offline or in the TA,just press crtl+ tab to enable friendly lock,then tab the target plane and you will see the LCG. Offline you dont need to enable friendly lock simply press tab once you enable the LCG in the arena settings.
I use a 55 in. screen also,my eyesight is so poor I have to sit back to see anything as my close range vision is nearly gone!
Give the LCG a try before you buy,you may find it isnt the TV it's the guy doing the shooting! Even a direct 6 shot requires some offset,depending on your location relative to the enemy! Using the LCG you clearly show you this!
I cant shoot worth a crap so I should give advice on this but I can say 100% that it's not the input lag or my monitor,or even my setup....... Nope it's just me! :o
:salute
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: pelota on October 24, 2015, 11:38:51 AM
Morfiend: thanks for the input, sir. I'll give it a try and get back to you, <salute!>.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: SirNuke on October 29, 2015, 03:52:52 PM
If you really want to go down the TV panel road, SONY is considered to be a solid brand for gaming, overall.
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: 38ruk on October 31, 2015, 06:05:04 PM
I cannot state enough that of all the options to make a gaming PC monitor "good" for gaming, 144hz refresh rate, or at least 120 (144hz is more common) makes the best difference IMO in terms of how games play. They allow up to 144 fps in many games, and it just looks better - many here who use 144hz monitors agree, and have posted about it in past threads this year.
This is a huge difference, if you play at 120-144 it's hard to go back to 60hrz. I know in AH it makes everything so fluid , you almost have to see it to explain it .
Title: Re: Biggest & Best Monitor for the game
Post by: Reschke on November 01, 2015, 03:04:23 PM
If money were no object then you should look into this setup.