Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Randy1 on October 18, 2015, 08:12:11 AM
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There is one player in the game that seems to make shots without, what looks like, a valid shooting angle. I have heard many players make the same statement about this player. I have been shoot down by the best in the game and they all, save one, always have valid shooting angles every time. Players like Violator, AKAK, Latrobe and so on just beat me with sound ACM. This player has good ACM for sure as well.
Surely it is not a hack of any kind or HTC would have found it so it must be hardware, and or legal, software enhancement program.
Any ideas?
My guess is the player sees, and can make a shoot before my computer updates to show me the player has a shooting angle. I see this most often when pulling under the nose of this player getting me clearly out of the line of fire that works for all other players except this one.
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Lol Anarchy isnt that good of a tator chucker ;P
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Try to film an engagement. You'll be able to jump into their cockpit to see what they are seeing when they fire...
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There is one player in the game that seems to make shots without, what looks like, a valid shooting angle. I have heard many players make the same statement about this player. I have been shoot down by the best in the game and they all, save one, always have valid shooting angles every time. Players like Violator, AKAK, Latrobe and so on just beat me with sound ACM. This player has good ACM for sure as well.
Surely it is not a hack of any kind or HTC would have found it so it must be hardware, and or legal, software enhancement program.
Any ideas?
My guess is the player sees, and can make a shoot before my computer updates to show me the player has a shooting angle. I see this most often when pulling under the nose of this player getting me clearly out of the line of fire that works for all other players except this one.
In most cases this is just lag rearing its ugly head. If you believe there is anything "funny" going on whether its a "hardware, and or legal, software enhancement program" <snicker> film it and send it to HTC. Posting stuff like that here on the boards does no good.
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Film will help immensely.
I know with my terrible internet I'll see some people shooting no where near me but on their screen they're shooting at my plane.
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Sawzaw always knows when my aimbot is on... :cry
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Sawzaw always knows when my aimbot is on... :cry
Or when you're using your second account...lol
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Try to film an engagement. You'll be able to jump into their cockpit to see what they are seeing when they fire...
You can't really see what the enemy saw from your own film. That's only an approximation that can be close, but can also be quite far off, depending on the total combined lag of you two.
In a lot of my own films the enemy seems to shoot way behind my plane, yet I get hit. That's the result from me being a non US player with a relatively high lag. If the other is from a similar remote location that can add up quite a bit.
You'd need the shooters film to see what he really saw.
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Or when you're using your second account...lol
Leave Jroc out of this. :rofl
:noid
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When I used to play late night, and have around a 65 ping to HTC's servers, whenever I would run into a couple of the guys from Japan playing with high 100s or even low 200s pings (so they told me), they would look WAY out of position on my front end when they would get shots on me. It's just the nature of how things resolve themselves on the net. I could take the Pepsi challenge with them, anytime, and know it was one of the two guys I'd see this type of thing with, and it wasn't anybody's fault, nor some sort of "device", software, hardware or otherwise.
Again, film is needed before you start throwing stuff like in the OP out there. HTC can tell a lot of stuff from the .ahf films about what's going on - not posting a film and then throwing accusations (or in a certain case, making up every excuse in the book NOT to release your .ahf films of duels) - says something about the situation.
If you have a specific complaint about a specific player, send the film in. If he's screwing around, they'll catch him eventually.
And once caught cheating, not even Strategic Dominance Gaming Theory can save you.
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There is one player in the game that seems to make shots without, what looks like, a valid shooting angle. I have heard many players make the same statement about this player.
The likely explanation, as we've explained many times, is that the data travel time on your internet connection is always added to the travel time of the player shooting at you. With 2 fast connections this is negligible. With one slow connection it becomes noticeable, but it's only noticeable when you get shot at. When you shoot at the slow connection guy it looks normal because you shoot on your own PC. Because you get shot at on a different PC it doesn't look the same to you. It's perfectly normal and the slow connection shooter has no advantage. Everybody has the same disadvantage vs their bandit when getting shot at. The amount of visual disparity the defensive fighter sees just reflects that combination of connection speeds.
Offense is normal. Defense needs an early response.
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Does having a high refresh rate monitor help like a 120?
I keep thinking it is not one single advantage but a combination of several small factors to get shoot solution before the other guy.
Just to be sure I am clear on this. I do not think this is a cheat of any kind.
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System lag is not a factor. Your PC is not lagging behind the "real" AH world, your PC is creating your AH world.
The critical factor in shot solution speed is the pilot.
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Lag is simple physics, speed of light sort of thing. If you're fighting a guy from Australia with the distance delay, routing efficiency, processing overhead, congestion, etc. the time difference between what you and he see on the screen can be seconds apart. If you've ever talked on a sat phone you know what lag is.
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Lag is simple physics, speed of light sort of thing.
PC system lag like monitor latency, and data travel time on the internet are not the same thing. Referring to both as lag can be confusing to the careless reader.
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Does having a high refresh rate monitor help like a 120?
If the overall image quality is better, determining the direction of the target might be more realistic. If your computer and monitor are able to redraw the picture 144 times in a second instead of 60, you are able to see more subtle movments. If you were able to see the movement of the control surfaces of your opponent before his plane actually turns, it might help to estimate the lead. In my case it wouldn't, it would take me a minute or two to figure out what his resulting direction would be...
As you supposed, several small factors make the advantage. Having a 144 Hz monitor doesn't help if your video card only can give you 30 FPS. The fastest video card wouldn't help if your processor can't calculate the angle, speed and direction fast enough. And so on. Even if you had the best possible system, your and your' opponent's connections may cause issues.
Like Lusche, I live in a country with a higher ping time and more lag. The best pilots can take even that into account when estimating the lead. We mere mortals tend to stick to what we see and acting accordingly, the best ones intuitively calculate and add the Internet lag for each of their opponents separately. The spooky thing is, they don't know how they do it. Androids???
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I keep thinking it is not one single advantage but a combination of several small factors to get shoot solution before the other guy.
The lag is not an advantage. He is most likely having the same lagged view as you are. I.E. you also are shooting him at angles he sees can not hit him.
HiTech
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Like Lusche, I live in a country with a higher ping time and more lag. The best pilots can take even that into account when estimating the lead.
This could be a confusing statement to the casual reader. Just to be clear: The shooter does not have to take lag into account when leading his target. When shooting, what you see is what you get. You always aim for the representation of the enemy on your own screen. :old:
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I expect that most players with noticeable input lag get it from joystick damping.
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I've seen something like this... once. I was coming out of a very fast dive (P51 over 400) and into a slight climb towards oncoming "player". Oncoming player was in a dive towards me... not true "ho" though, he was about my 11 o'clock in an F4u (don't remember variant), so I figured he was gonna go right on by, which he did. I didn't so much as wiggle as we passed (I wouldn't exactly call it a merge). When he went by off my left wing, we were going exactly opposite directions. "Player" managed to do a 180 and and shoot me down inside of 5 seconds.
I was never entirely sure if it was lag (him having ruddered over for a HO shot), or "something else". I have no idea of his speed, however he was and had been in a dive and there's no way that "reversal" happened in a remotely realistic manner.
In fact, I know of a couple other players who manage impossible "reversals" routinely. Is this a bug or glitch exploit?
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How long should it have taken? 6 seconds?
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I've seen something like this... once. I was coming out of a very fast dive (P51 over 400) and into a slight climb towards oncoming "player". Oncoming player was in a dive towards me... not true "ho" though, he was about my 11 o'clock in an F4u (don't remember variant), so I figured he was gonna go right on by, which he did. I didn't so much as wiggle as we passed (I wouldn't exactly call it a merge). When he went by off my left wing, we were going exactly opposite directions. "Player" managed to do a 180 and and shoot me down inside of 5 seconds.
I was never entirely sure if it was lag (him having ruddered over for a HO shot), or "something else". I have no idea of his speed, however he was and had been in a dive and there's no way that "reversal" happened in a remotely realistic manner.
In fact, I know of a couple other players who manage impossible "reversals" routinely. Is this a bug or glitch exploit?
Define "impossible"? Obviously it's a game and some things will have gamey effects or unrealistic nuances that you simply cannot control. Most of the reversals I've learned may seem as though I lagged on an opponents six because they have lost sight of me for a quick second. If they lose sight on me it would sure seem like I lagged onto their 6 by how fast it happened. I have seen people actually lag when I'm about to shoot them but they certainly don't lag on my 6 and gain any sort of advantage from it. However, I would miss my shot and that would be aggravating.
In my opinion it's just a lag issue. I believe that one person's connection is lagging behind the others when you get really close to an opponent. It seems to happen only when the opponent is very close to you. I've seen it a # of times when they hit you after they have passed you.
I don't really know how computer and internet things work but what I can tell you through the experience I've had with the game is that it doesn't benefit either player and on their side they made a clean shot. There is nothing you can do to really make this a consistency when you play, it just sort of happens, I guess.
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I have come to understand that the radio shows LAG like nothing else. It can be as long as 20 seconds of lag just in the radios on AH. When I hear the radio chatter getting strung out I always have odd angle hits on my plane soon there after. How many times have you given or received a check six call that seems in time just to be told "thanks anyway" :eek:
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I've seen something like this... once. I was coming out of a very fast dive (P51 over 400) and into a slight climb towards oncoming "player". Oncoming player was in a dive towards me... not true "ho" though, he was about my 11 o'clock in an F4u (don't remember variant), so I figured he was gonna go right on by, which he did. I didn't so much as wiggle as we passed (I wouldn't exactly call it a merge). When he went by off my left wing, we were going exactly opposite directions. "Player" managed to do a 180 and and shoot me down inside of 5 seconds.
I was never entirely sure if it was lag (him having ruddered over for a HO shot), or "something else". I have no idea of his speed, however he was and had been in a dive and there's no way that "reversal" happened in a remotely realistic manner.
In fact, I know of a couple other players who manage impossible "reversals" routinely. Is this a bug or glitch exploit?
He most likely did what you posted, ruddered hard to slide and raked your plane from nose to tail. On his computer/view he may have don this move 200-300 out from your merge, but with lag you didn't see the maneuver. Given the closing speed of the planes, about 700+ mph (your 350 plus his 350) it doesn't take very long to cover that space, were talking about 800+ feet a second, so a quarter second lag between BOTH of you and you don't see his rudder kick until he is past you.
At least that is the way I've always thought it worked
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The lag is not an advantage. He is most likely having the same lagged view as you are. I.E. you also are shooting him at angles he sees can not hit him.
HiTech
Respectfully disagree a little, at least in my case...
Part of my fighting style is to sucker people in by giving them what looks to them like a shot, then I try to maneuver just out of gun range. Often I can get an overshoot or a reversal because I make them commit to a high E bleeding turn and I flip them to a defensive posture. I have found players with higher ping times/greater lag are able to get me because I don't see them where they see themselves. For example, it looks to me like they are not able to get the shot, but I end up in the tower when they aren't even pointing their plane at me (from my perspective at least). Sure, when I am on their six, the same applies to them, so it's fair, so to speak. When they are on your six, it's an advantage, when you are on theirs, it's a big disadvantage.
To be clear, I understand it's a limitation of an internet game, and I am okay with it. This is not a complaint, but a reality one has to be aware of. Sometimes things aren't exactly what they appear to be, and you have to compensate for it. :aok
Disclaimer: Just my observation, I could be wrong.
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When they are on your six, it's an advantage, when you are on theirs, it's a big disadvantage.
So you wish your internet conection had more lag?
HiTech
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So you wish your internet conection had more lag?
HiTech
If that's the case, may I suggest:
(http://west.frontier.com/images/wft/logo-large.gif)
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So you wish your internet conection had more lag?
HiTech
I believe he's just describing what happens.
It's probably part of the reason for the popularity of creating an overshoot.
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So you wish your internet conection had more lag?
HiTech
Nope. Why do you ask?
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Nope. Why do you ask?
Probably because he said the same thing you did and you said you disagreed a little with that.
If you had more lag you'd see less variation in total lag from different players.
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Meathead's right, it's just a fact of online gaming. The good news is it goes both ways, as he stated.
You've just got to assume anything you see regarding other planes' gunnery is an approximation, nothing more. The better the ping times are on both ends, the closer of an approximation it is. When all is said and done though about all you can say for certain when you see or hear the bandit's guns firing, is that he's shooting at you. Where the tracers are on your end is almost meaningless.
When I'm defensive against another plane, one of the main things I keep in mind is they've always got a slightly better gunnery position than it appears they have. I err on the side of caution to make sure I'm out of their way, but it makes getting the shot on the overshoot a lot more difficult.
Wiley.
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Probably because he said the same thing you did and you said you disagreed a little with that.
If you had more lag you'd see less variation in total lag from different players.
Ummm He said
The lag is not an advantage. He is most likely having the same lagged view as you are. I.E. you also are shooting him at angles he sees can not hit him.
HiTech
I challenged it saying it's situational. Now if I could guarantee that never would anyone be on my six, then more lag could be a true advantage. Since that's not the case, more lag could be a disadvantage.
No outrage here, just pointing something out.
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Ummm He said
I challenged it saying it's situational. Now if I could guarantee that never would anyone be on my six, then more lag could be a true advantage. Since that's not the case, more lag could be a disadvantage.
No outrage here, just pointing something out.
I think what HT is saying is, it's not an unfair advantage. If a high-lag opponent is defensive, it's equally as bad for him as when you're defensive, which you pretty much stated in your first post.
Hold hands, kumbaya, and all that. :)
Wiley.
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Nope. Why do you ask?
Because you trying to frame it into words, "He has an advantage" which would go on as a perpetual myth that some one who has more Lag has an advantage over some one who doesn't.
But yet you clearly do not think it is an advantage because you don't want to be the guy with the lag.
I understand what you are saying about both disadvantage and advantage. But many people do not (see threads about collisions). So I am simply trying to make it clear that lag is NOT a good thing.
HiTech
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Because you trying to frame it into words, "He has an advantage" which would go on as a perpetual myth that some one who has more Lag has an advantage over some one who doesn't.
But yet you clearly do not think it is an advantage because you don't want to be the guy with the lag.
I understand what you are saying about both disadvantage and advantage. But many people do not (see threads about collisions). So I am simply trying to make it clear that lag is NOT a good thing.
HiTech
Fair enough, it's about optics. I agree, less lag is better, zero would be preferred, but as Wiley said it's a limitation we are stuck with, and hopefully with education comes understanding, and with understanding, acceptance. Nothing you can do will make the internet faster, so I feel you have made a good compromise that works.
Dale, I know you have to deal with some real crap every day, and the shield of the internet makes people mean as hell. I don't envy your position, but I thank you for sticking it out. Sending thick skin your way. I can't play as much as I want to, but when I do, your invention is a blast. :salute