Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Open Beta Test => Topic started by: hitech on October 29, 2015, 11:11:56 AM

Title: Default head positions.
Post by: hitech on October 29, 2015, 11:11:56 AM: Anyone interested in creating a full set of head positions for all planes.

Or at least the primary views?

HiTech
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: 100Coogn on October 29, 2015, 11:52:55 AM: Perhaps some of us could submit our head position settings file and you may choose the one you like.
What do we upload, the settings folder?

Coogan
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on October 29, 2015, 01:13:04 PM: Primary being front, back, left, right, up back? Or do you want corner views also? Do you prefer the full set with up and down modifiers?

These would be set for FOV 80?

Do you want the alternate front view focused on the instruments?

Window frames in side views for reference if possible?

How soon do you need it?
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: hitech on October 29, 2015, 01:59:24 PM: All the 2 key combos, except the down stuff.

Also the 2nd forward map to angled down (see gauges) if needed and moved up for over the nose.

As to how soon, no real time frame but with in few weeks would be nice.

I would ship these files in a 2nd default directory, and they would be used when a saved one does not exist.

HiTech
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: TequilaChaser on October 29, 2015, 02:14:50 PM: I am down here in Florida visiting for my granddaughter's first birthday (this past Sunday) and my youngest daughter's birthday next Monday, but when I return on November 6th, I'll zip file all my AH .hps view setting files (for the Alpha) and email them to HTC, if that will help

I don't mind doing the same for the current AH version as well, if needed

Hope this is helpful

TC
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on October 29, 2015, 02:29:16 PM: Quote from: hitech on October 29, 2015, 01:59:24 PM
All the 2 key combos, except the down stuff.

Also the 2nd forward map to angled down (see gauges) if needed and moved up for over the nose.

As to how soon, no real time frame but with in few weeks would be nice.

I would ship these files in a 2nd default directory, and they would be used when a saved one does not exist.

HiTech

I'll give it a shot. I've wished for adjusted views for newbies. :D
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: mustng2 on October 29, 2015, 03:27:19 PM: Good idea. I played the game for weeks with people telling me to check 6 and all I could see was a head rest when I looked back. Then I found out about setting the head position. Frustrating for new players.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: hitech on October 29, 2015, 04:53:25 PM: FLS Send me or post a couple so I can make sure we are on the same page.

HiTech
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on October 29, 2015, 11:38:18 PM: Quote from: hitech on October 29, 2015, 04:53:25 PM
FLS Send me or post a couple so I can make sure we are on the same page.

HiTech

I had the same thought. :D

FOV is 80. There is a bit of aircraft visible for reference in each view except the right side up view. Left side would be symmetric.

(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/d919/bjy07ecvc9uyc3j4g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/bjy07ecvc9uyc3j/DV.jpg) (https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/83e3/778f8lqev5dit994g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/778f8lqev5dit99/FU.jpg)

(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/52a2/pwutcb99hzhk16p4g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/pwutcb99hzhk16p/RF.jpg) (https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/b255/k53btm1593m2w1b4g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/k53btm1593m2w1b/RFU.jpg)

(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/0299/11if646ihxh6gb64g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/11if646ihxh6gb6/R.jpg) (https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/4fea/wxzwd74xsd1b7024g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/wxzwd74xsd1b702/RU.jpg)

(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/c0ed/4l2g9h9f5tctsza4g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/4l2g9h9f5tctsza/RB.jpg) (https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/5735/y24htcohzqpov014g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/y24htcohzqpov01/RBU.jpg)

(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/7ffc/2mti2lol7x16pdo4g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/2mti2lol7x16pdo/B.jpg) (https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/a7cd/8t2cpih0wwa0hha4g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/8t2cpih0wwa0hha/BU.jpg)
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on October 29, 2015, 11:42:59 PM: I renamed my settings folder and that fixed the F8 pan key and the mouse look.

The first picture is how I think you want the second forward view set but the mouse view tilt isn't saved with F10 so I end up with what you see in the second picture with only the head raised. The third pic is the instruments without the tilt.

(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/ec85/lc69rm5i6jg6amd4g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/lc69rm5i6jg6amd/F2.jpg)

(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/8e26/70xwgjq4axzgy854g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/70xwgjq4axzgy85/F1.jpg)

(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/1120/kjb3mabhzhc06644g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/kjb3mabhzhc0664/dash.jpg)
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: Randy1 on October 30, 2015, 06:01:21 AM: What would be really neat is to fix the head initial position to be historically accurate.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: hitech on October 30, 2015, 08:36:02 AM: Quote from: FLS on October 29, 2015, 11:42:59 PM
I renamed my settings folder and that fixed the F8 pan key and the mouse look.

The first picture is how I think you want the second forward view set but the mouse view tilt isn't saved with F10 so I end up with what you see in the second picture with only the head raised. The third pic is the instruments without the tilt.

(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/ec85/lc69rm5i6jg6amd4g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/lc69rm5i6jg6amd/F2.jpg)

I mean for you to post the hps files. in Settings/planes

HiTech

(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/8e26/70xwgjq4axzgy854g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/70xwgjq4axzgy85/F1.jpg)

(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/1120/kjb3mabhzhc06644g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/kjb3mabhzhc0664/dash.jpg)
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: hitech on October 30, 2015, 08:40:32 AM: Quote from: FLS on October 29, 2015, 11:42:59 PM
The first picture is how I think you want the second forward view set but the mouse view tilt isn't saved with F10 so I end up with what you see in the second picture with only the head raised. The third pic is the instruments without the tilt.

You are correct on that is what I wish for, I forgot that only the default view saves the angle.

So lift over nose will only is what I would choose for the 2nd forward view.

HiTech
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on October 30, 2015, 10:52:03 AM: Quote from: Randy1 on October 30, 2015, 06:01:21 AM
What would be really neat is to fix the head initial position to be historically accurate.

You are making more than one assumption here with no validation.

The initial position is generally accurate. You assume it's wrong or you forgot to explain how it's wrong.

Pilots were different sizes. Which size pilot is correct?

Pilots had different preferences. Which pilot's preference is correct?

We get to choose our position and now new pilots will start with a useful rear view. What is better than that?
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on October 30, 2015, 11:30:21 AM: Quote from: hitech on October 30, 2015, 08:36:02 AM
I mean for you to post the hps files. in Settings/planes

HiTech

I got that but I thought it would be faster for you to look at pics for the example.

By the way, hps files will not attach to the forum.

P-51 hps (https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/j3DthsnbyGnUqQ566YnL0pnCYiMKXY15TlJP7utEQBV?ref_=cd_ph_share_link_copy)
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: MrKrabs on October 30, 2015, 11:50:47 AM: Quote from: FLS on October 30, 2015, 10:52:03 AM
We get to choose our position and now new pilots will start with a useful rear view. What is better than that?

This :rock
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: bustr on October 30, 2015, 03:18:45 PM: When I map Shift_H to a key and enable mouse pan with that. Then tilt down and save F10, it keeps the down tilt in the default forward view. I have to pull the view full back after tilting down.

Here is default at 80 FoV and the down tilted forward view in 80 FoV and 105 FoV.

(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee508/KDavis6030/Def80Fov.jpg)

(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee508/KDavis6030/Tlt80Fov.jpg)

(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee508/KDavis6030/Tlt105Fov.jpg)
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: hitech on October 30, 2015, 03:30:37 PM: I'm starting to think we should configure the default forward like busters 80 deg pitched down view.

HiTech
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on October 30, 2015, 03:41:07 PM: Quote from: hitech on October 30, 2015, 03:30:37 PM
I'm starting to think we should configure the default forward like busters 80 deg pitched down view.

HiTech

Sounds good. It would still be configurable to personal preference. Although I'm not sure most players ever look at their instruments.

Would that be on your end or should I set each default view for better instrument view?
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: bustr on October 30, 2015, 04:01:30 PM: If you don't change the "Home" setting default value for the default pilot view, it then becomes posting somewhere easy to pull up that "Home" will set it to the reticle center as the default center of your PoV.

Many will probably never care and adapt.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: hitech on October 30, 2015, 04:46:16 PM: Quote from: FLS on October 30, 2015, 03:41:07 PM
Sounds good. It would still be configurable to personal preference. Although I'm not sure most players ever look at their instruments.

Would that be on your end or should I set each default view for better instrument view?

Set each one, that way home will still center it for you.

HiTech
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: Randy1 on October 31, 2015, 08:19:48 AM: Quote from: FLS on October 30, 2015, 10:52:03 AM
You are making more than one assumption here with no validation.

The initial position is generally accurate. You assume it's wrong or you forgot to explain how it's wrong.

Pilots were different sizes. Which size pilot is correct?

Pilots had different preferences. Which pilot's preference is correct?

We get to choose our position and now new pilots will start with a useful rear view. What is better than that?

In AH2 the P51D is a good example. Too far back.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on October 31, 2015, 10:03:39 AM: How far?

Do you think the seat is in the right place but the pilot should lean forward?
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on October 31, 2015, 12:29:22 PM: Here's an example with the default view tilted down.

A6m2 hps (https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/lHj5MbheW1miU0Zd0eHSIbgjgdGfHs8f9uKtHhcsJFr?ref_=cd_ph_share_link_copy)
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: Chilli on October 31, 2015, 01:52:38 PM: HiTech,

Most definitely DO THIS, and thank you for this conversation about head position. Bustr, thanks for your input and work with gun sights, it finally clicked in with this thread.

All along I had assumed that any change in point of view / angle would throw my sights off and would need adjustment, THAT IS NOT TRUE..... hizaaah epiphany :rock

First, I went back to Field of View 80 and default "home" head position, and adjusted nose down angle (using mouse look) to include the instruments panel's about top 2/3 (enough to see speed, altimeter, ammo, etc.). This cut off an "important" top section of my view until I lowered the head position to bring sight into view(page down). ^{{edit: correction on instruction}}

The result was indeed what Bustr had been describing for some time; a wonderfully straight correlation to MK8tt sight and hits on target in range!! :banana:

Screenshot attached shows Field of View 110 (expanding dash visability = my preference) and hit sprites predictably on target! :aok

I also included this *.hps file attached (I assume that you want one of these for each aircraft).

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/2chilli_photos/Aces%20High/sightF4U.png)

Cropped view of the sight correlation, for full screen capture please see attachment below the post.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: bustr on October 31, 2015, 02:35:58 PM: I tried an experiment. I set the P51D back to all defaults for HPS positions. I know if I set the default PoV with a down angle to include the bullet counters that I can always hit NumP_8 to see straight through the center of the reticle.

I tried from the default holding down on NumP_8 and setting the down tilt, then saving. Result, nothing when I pressed NumP_8.

If the new player uses zoom in FoV 80 mode with a down tilt, he zooms into the barrel of the gunsight and sees nothing. Shouldn't this be reversed with the default pilot view through the center of the reticle while NumP_8 gives him a quick look at his instruments and gun counters? Then leave the Home key to allow him to reset the NumP_8 view.

The change I made to the P51D default view will not allow you to use zoom to see your jabo target during your bombing or missile run.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on October 31, 2015, 03:13:02 PM: Good catch Bustr I hadn't tried the zoom yet.

I think that if a targeting problem is stable enough for full zoom it's stable enough to hit the home key first.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: bustr on October 31, 2015, 05:05:34 PM: What does the guy do who needs zoom in a furball.

Excuse me Mr. wiggly FW190 A5, can you hold still while I combine several keys just to see if you brushed your hair today.....I really want to shoot you but, I'm being sneaky. Say cheese.....
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: Chilli on October 31, 2015, 06:54:01 PM: Quote from: Chilli on October 31, 2015, 01:52:38 PM
HiTech,

Most definitely DO THIS, and thank you for this conversation about head position. Bustr, thanks for your input and work with gun sights, it finally clicked in with this thread.

All along I had assumed that any change in point of view / angle would throw my sights off and would need adjustment, THAT IS NOT TRUE..... hizaaah epiphany :rock

First, I went back to Field of View 80 and default "home" head position, and adjusted nose down angle (using mouse look) to include the instruments panel's about top 2/3 (enough to see speed, altimeter, ammo, etc.). This cut off an "important" top section of my view until I lowered the head position to bring sight into view(page down). ^{{edit: correction on instruction}}

The result was indeed what Bustr had been describing for some time; a wonderfully straight correlation to MK8tt sight and hits on target in range!! :banana:

Screenshot attached shows Field of View 110 (expanding dash visability = my preference) and hit sprites predictably on target! :aok

I also included this *.hps file attached (I assume that you want one of these for each aircraft).

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/2chilli_photos/Aces%20High/sightF4U.png)

Cropped view of the sight correlation, for full screen capture please see attachment below the post.

Sorry attachments got lost and appended here :O
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on October 31, 2015, 07:01:43 PM: Quote from: bustr on October 31, 2015, 05:05:34 PM
What does the guy do who needs zoom in a furball.

Excuse me Mr. wiggly FW190 A5, can you hold still while I combine several keys just to see if you brushed your hair today.....I really want to shoot you but, I'm being sneaky. Say cheese.....

Who uses max zoom in a furball? If you really need full zoom you hit "home" and F10.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on November 01, 2015, 12:13:48 AM: Here's my take on the B-29.

I've done 24 aircraft so far so it shouldn't take too long.

B-29 hps (https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/XTruk92T7udYnxXcE99QMtdTnPifvYDxUfaQAR2Ajt4?ref_=cd_ph_share_link_copy)
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: Chilli on November 01, 2015, 01:33:00 AM: Quote from: hitech on October 30, 2015, 03:30:37 PM
I'm starting to think we should configure the default forward like busters 80 deg pitched down view.

HiTech

Unless, the head tilt position will be programmed to zoom perpendicularly, this is not a bad default. With a slightly adjusted head angle, ~ 150% zoom is still possible with a simple button click and still maintain target. Max zoom, however follows the head tilt angle into the dash.

Here are all 5 F4U Corsair *.hps (head position) files in zip attachment.
Please note: I use unconventional head views, for 2 button looks, so these files will not do as default for anything other than forward, rear, and left + rear looks.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: bustr on November 01, 2015, 01:47:38 PM: Quote from: FLS on October 31, 2015, 07:01:43 PM
Who uses max zoom in a furball? If you really need full zoom you hit "home" and F10.

I use TR in 2-axis so I inherit the HPS file views as I head pan. I hit zoom during jabo, hunting tanks, ACM to see flaps and engine kill, and to utilize my Gen10 ACM gunsight for shooting during air to air combat. I use it between 75-100% depending on the job. I have zoom mapped to a single button. Otherwise at FoV 105, a 35Mil ring un-zoomed deceptively looks like you can place it over the con at 400 and all of your rounds will hit it. If you can make out the con against the game's background at that distance. On zoom you discover that a 40ft wingspan at 400 is 57Mil. And a dot 6-12 Hitech Mil is washing around in one huge area of missing that un-zoomed looked like an easy kill shot. And that there really is a difference between 5, 10, and 20 degrees off angle of travel deflection. Which un-zoomed, the average player just misses.

Many new players and even vets don't use zoom and can't hit anything in our game. In real life the reticle if it was a 100mph ring, was about 2.5 inches in diameter 17" or less in front of the pilot's nose. And the majority in WW2 couldn't hit anything either.

I know, what do I know about anything.......
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on November 01, 2015, 02:13:11 PM: I don't see a problem Bustr. The point of a configurable system is everybody gets their preference. This is just a different choice for default. Every player can still set it up to suit themselves. Home and F10 are easy instructions to restore the gunsight view and if you don't use the F8 over the nose view it can easily be an instrument view with page down and F10.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: Chilli on November 01, 2015, 03:17:16 PM: I think there might be a communication problem. LISTEN, the head tilt IS a better default picture. The DEGREE of head tilt and zoom, is what determines whether or not it is preferable during combat.

Solution: A lessened tilt angle and decreased zoom % works wonderfully :rock
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on November 01, 2015, 03:34:48 PM: The setup HiTech asked for already works with zoom, just not full zoom. The degree of useful zoom depends on the cockpit layout since some cockpits have instruments mounted lower so they require more tilt. On some aircraft full zoom is available in the second forward view already. Either view is configurable to your preference. The default will work well for new players. If a new player doesn't like the default there will likely be a video showing them how easy it is to change it.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: bustr on November 01, 2015, 04:46:52 PM: NumP_8 changed to be the tilted pilot default alternate view would solve this.

Then all of these tilted front views players are submitting would be mapped to that since it's a line in a file. Or Hitech adds another line in the file for each "aircraft.hps". The current unchanged default pilot view through the center of the reticle would be left as is and a note prominently placed would say press NumP_8 to see your instruments. The default level position then can have the azimuth 3 positions kept off the end of the x,y,z line for players like Chilli who just discovered shooting with some down pitch. The more key presses involved, the less players will have attention for what is in front of them. Most of my squad uses a hat switch and will only admit to using zoom to jabo for some reason.

We do not know how many players have HOTAS or programmable buttons out the YingYang like many of us arguing here. I'm thinking in the least case scenario, not the most fortunate, willing to do more than press a button, or affluent of gamers. Just those guys you hear on Saturday night drinking beer and going piu, piu, piu. There happens to be a lot of them paying the light bill.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on November 01, 2015, 06:35:07 PM: You don't need a lot of key presses or a HOTAS. You just set up your preferred default when you've played enough to have a preference.

Plan A was tilt F8. Unless Hitech rewrites the code we're going with plan B. How much tilt vs zoom is up to Hitech. Unless I hear specific guidelines I'll use my judgement since I'm the one that volunteered to do the work.

You can get full zoom and instruments without Hitech writing new code with a FOV wider than 80. We have many options.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: Chilli on November 01, 2015, 07:28:23 PM: Agreed.... keep the tilt within "playable" zoom on target parameters. No need for any extra key or button presses. Just toggle zoom on or off.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: bustr on November 02, 2015, 12:22:59 PM: The work doesn't take very long. Most of us have all the HPS files in AH2, copied them over, and are just looking through them to validate our setting of each. Now for the ones with sticking points in some views, you can manually adjust the x,y,z in the file itself. It took me two days to recreate all of the reticles for the historic pack. So the pain in doing the work is meaningless.

The absolute new player will suffer from our hubris. He is the one who will find these minor annoyance's a problem and not subscribe. And they all don't just trundel on down to the TA. Adjusting to a titled forward view like Chilli is describing is fine for us vets of the game. Having to figure out that kind of a nuance will go on the list of negatives about ease of play for a new player. Think about how confusing finally getting everyone up to speed on how to set the frikkin tilt was in the first place. And we are vets.

Then think about for 15 years the whole concept of setting views was left up to the potential new subscriber and now Hitech has decided to pre set them. Ease of using the views is very important to the uninitiated to combat in our game. Most of us just blaze through the views to update our mental picture while working in the combat airspace. To the new player, those views are everything for a very long time. Especially that default forward view.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on November 02, 2015, 12:36:34 PM: I agree that restoring the default forward view with "home" and F10 is a lot easier for a new player then telling them how to set up an instrument view with head tilt.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on November 02, 2015, 03:07:50 PM: The initial fighter setups are done. After I finish the bombers I want to check them all with a 106 FOV before I post them.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: FLS on November 12, 2015, 03:40:59 AM: Here it is.
Title: Re: Default head positions.
Post by: hitech on November 12, 2015, 10:24:22 AM: Quote from: FLS on November 12, 2015, 03:40:59 AM
Here it is.

Thanks