Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Vraciu on November 15, 2015, 11:14:31 AM
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Well, I finally was able to fly my skins in the Alpha to see how they will respond to the new graphics features.
I noticed one error that is not my doing, namely the main wheel is bleeding through the gear door.
The bottom of the rudder is also flashing even though the bump map settings are for it to be dull/flat.
The other issues are how the game is rendering my skins. It is making my panel lines and rivets look screwy. Can anyone tell me what has changed that is causing this? In the current game version none of these mistakes are present as best I can tell. (I may be running my graphics slightly higher in the Alpha, but I think it is one of the new Bump settings that's causing it--I just don't know which one.)
Any help is appreciated.
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Here's what it looks like in the viewer with ALL LIGHTING selected. Something is washing out the airplane completely.
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Here's what it looks like in the viewer with ALL LIGHTING selected. Something is washing out the airplane completely.
If it's anything like the current version, I'd say something is screwy with your specular map or material.
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If it's anything like the current version, I'd say something is screwy with your specular map or material.
Here's how it looks in the old viewer with everything on.
I know the new engine has added some things to the Bump settings but I don't know exactly what.
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There are a lot of changes to the Alpha skins (file names have changed. Use of normal maps, instead of bump maps...). Greebo and HiTech have a thread about it in the Alpha forum.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,375706.0.html
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There are a lot of changes to the Alpha skins (file names have changed. Use of normal maps, instead of bump maps...). Greebo and HiTech have a thread about it in the Alpha forum.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,375706.0.html
Still limited to 256-color BMP, or is AH FINALLY moving to RGB DDS files?
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DDS is a lossy texture compression format. You risk loosing details in the texture. It is also not supported by all video drivers.
All textures use some type of compression format, with other parameters dictating the format.
I take it you are not happy with the look of the skins in AH3?
Greebo posted a sample of one of his skins.
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c155/Jonchaz/Screenshots%20British/852_NAS_Avenger_SC2_zpsdvpxuclv.jpg)
What is it you are not happy with?
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I'm just saying it's strange to see a game still using 256-color bitmaps. The change to the new engine seemed like the perfect time to make the switch to RGB (I'm trying to remember any other game I've done textures for since the mid-2000s that was still using 256-color).
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Most of the true color of any object is going to be derived from the lighting of the object. The base color is actually a small component of the overall image.
Why quadruple the size of something when there is no perceivable benefit?
Full color textures are being used in AH3, where it makes sense.
I'll ask again. Is there something you do not like about the new skin Greebo posted? Where do you see any visual deficiencies?
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There are a lot of changes to the Alpha skins (file names have changed. Use of normal maps, instead of bump maps...). Greebo and HiTech have a thread about it in the Alpha forum.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,375706.0.html
I will check it out.
Will you port the old skins to the new version or will we have to resubmit? Mine look a little screwy in the Alpha now.
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We will convert all the AH2 skins to AH3, when it is time to do so.
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We will convert all the AH2 skins to AH3, when it is time to do so.
Okay, so the way they look now is not final I take it. Guess I will wait and see. Better get my updates in before you switch! :)
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Vraciu, First I don't see what issue you are reporting in the jpgs. Can you explain further
2nd I do not know if these are skins we have shipped with the version or something you are working with.
If it with the skins we shiped, which one?
If they are yours can you please post the source files.
Other then the wheel bug which is simply a z fight or shadow issue.
HiTech
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If you didn't paint them onto the skin the "washed out" areas around the rivets would appear to be where the bump map is creating highlights on the skin. I am assuming you have either created a bump map or are using the default one. As HT said without the source files we are just guessing.
The highlight under the rudder may or may not be a bug that is built into the skin but as I haven't skinned a P-51 I'm not that familiar with it. I have noticed something similar on various AH aircraft that have one or two odd-looking highlights in specific places when bump mapping is turned on.
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Vraciu, First I don't see what issue you are reporting in the jpgs. Can you explain further
2nd I do not know if these are skins we have shipped with the version or something you are working with.
If it with the skins we shiped, which one?
If they are yours can you please post the source files.
Other then the wheel bug which is simply a z fight or shadow issue.
HiTech
It is the 52FG/4FS P-51D Skin I submitted. I can post the files if you like unless it is easier for you to look at them since you already have 'em.
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If you didn't paint them onto the skin the "washed out" areas around the rivets would appear to be where the bump map is creating highlights on the skin. I am assuming you have either created a bump map or are using the default one. As HT said without the source files we are just guessing.
The highlight under the rudder may or may not be a bug that is built into the skin but as I haven't skinned a P-51 I'm not that familiar with it. I have noticed something similar on various AH aircraft that have one or two odd-looking highlights in specific places when bump mapping is turned on.
I have BUMP and SPEC maps in use. In the current AH version these shadows and flares on the rivets and lines are not visible. Only in the Alpha do they appear--and that is not intended by me. They look almost pixelated.
Also the way it appears in the new viewer is almost completely washed out with ALL LIGHTING EFFECTS enabled. I don't know what is causing this.
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Here are the source files for your review, Hitech.
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Last file.
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Here is a comparison in the skin viewers. This may be hardware driven or it may be driven by the new graphics files/settings. What is causing the flashing in the new version that isn't there in the old?
I have highlighted some of the problem spots in the second photo. These don't appear in the current AH game, only in the Alpha. I can't figure out the cause.
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Here is a side by side of the wing issue. In the current game it looks smooth like the viewer (top). In Alpha 84 it is pixelated in the areas outlined in red (bottom). :headscratch: Maybe my vid card is garbage... (Apologies for the poor screen shot. Was trying to reduce the file size and it degraded the image a bit.)
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If you are trying to get an AH2 skin to work in AH3, you are going to have to do some work, as there have been a number of changes to the skins format for AH3.
Start by reading this post: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,375706.msg5005307.html#msg5005307
It details all the specific files a skin should have for AH3.
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If you are trying to get an AH2 skin to work in AH3, you are going to have to do some work, as there have been a number of changes to the skins format for AH3.
Start by reading this post: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,375706.msg5005307.html#msg5005307
It details all the specific files a skin should have for AH3.
I understand that but what I don't understand is what file I need to fix to correct these anomalies. When you guys convert them will these things still be there?
I think I will give up skinning once the new version comes out. I know nobody will care, but I enjoyed it. Too many changes for me to keep up with, unfortunately. :(
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Here is your skin viewed in the Alpha Skin Viewer on my PC. The only change I made to your files was to rename the specular map from P51D_B_a.bmp to P51D_S.bmp. Also the material.txt file you uploaded is not needed. This as I understand it is also what HTC's skin converter is going to do, just rename and/or delete the relevant files from existing skins so they match the new format. So skinners will not need to do anything to their existing skins to work with AH3. Also you can continue to make skins the way you have been doing, apart from renaming the specular file to an _S suffix. The new normal, environment and power files are optional, so if you don't fancy using them you don't have to.
I am not seeing the graphics issues you have described in the viewer. So either its something specific to your PC or it is down to me renaming the spec map.
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c155/Jonchaz/Aces%20High/Vraciu_P-51D_Skin_SC1_zps3jlgn2yf.jpg)
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If you want to view an AH2 skin in AH3, you will have to rename and supply files or the skin is not going to look right.
P51D.bmp stays the same.
P51D_B_A.bmp -> rename <- P51D_S.bmp
P51D_B.bmp -> convert to normal map -< P51D_N.bmp (use the tools Greebo supplied links to)
The _B file is not used in AH3.
I have attached a split screen view of one of your skins in AH2. The left side shows what the skin would like copied directly over to AH3. The right side shows the conversion with the _B (bump map) converted to an _N (normal map) and the _B_A file renamed to _S.
None of the *.txt files are used in AH3. They have all be converted to image files with the channels of the image files containing data. That is where the _E and _P files come in.
Everything done in AH3 is to allow the skinner more control over the appearance of skins in the game.
Will your AH2 skin look exactly like it does in AH2, when it is converted to AH3? I don't know yet. We just did our first batch of skins. Take a look at the same P51D skin when it is down loaded in AH3 and you tell us.
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OK then that has changed since Waffle first explained the new files to the Skinner Team. As I understood it the game would use a bump map if no normal map had been supplied.
Vraciu I've moved my viewpoint around more in the skin viewer and from some angles I can see the rivet issue you mentioned earlier. Try making your aluminium on the spec map less shiny and/or your rivets not as raised.
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I think early on in the Alpha, they were thinking about how to use the bump map file, but it went the way of the dodo. You can verify it in the skin viewer by checking the "Diffuse Only" light option as that is where you will see the bump/normal mapping if it is present.
Keep in mind, what is true in today's Alpha, may change tomorrow. It is the nature of the beast. :)
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Here is your skin viewed in the Alpha Skin Viewer on my PC. The only change I made to your files was to rename the specular map from P51D_B_a.bmp to P51D_S.bmp. Also the material.txt file you uploaded is not needed. This as I understand it is also what HTC's skin converter is going to do, just rename and/or delete the relevant files from existing skins so they match the new format. So skinners will not need to do anything to their existing skins to work with AH3. Also you can continue to make skins the way you have been doing, apart from renaming the specular file to an _S suffix. The new normal, environment and power files are optional, so if you don't fancy using them you don't have to.
I am not seeing the graphics issues you have described in the viewer. So either its something specific to your PC or it is down to me renaming the spec map.
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c155/Jonchaz/Aces%20High/Vraciu_P-51D_Skin_SC1_zps3jlgn2yf.jpg)
HOLY COW!!!! FRIGGIN' AMAZING!!
I will have to tone down the BUMP effects some for the panel lines but the metal effect is stunning.
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If you want to view an AH2 skin in AH3, you will have to rename and supply files or the skin is not going to look right.
P51D.bmp stays the same.
P51D_B_A.bmp -> rename <- P51D_S.bmp
P51D_B.bmp -> convert to normal map -< P51D_N.bmp (use the tools Greebo supplied links to)
The _B file is not used in AH3.
I have attached a split screen view of one of your skins in AH2. The left side shows what the skin would like copied directly over to AH3. The right side shows the conversion with the _B (bump map) converted to an _N (normal map) and the _B_A file renamed to _S.
None of the *.txt files are used in AH3. They have all be converted to image files with the channels of the image files containing data. That is where the _E and _P files come in.
Everything done in AH3 is to allow the skinner more control over the appearance of skins in the game.
Will your AH2 skin look exactly like it does in AH2, when it is converted to AH3? I don't know yet. We just did our first batch of skins. Take a look at the same P51D skin when it is down loaded in AH3 and you tell us.
Thanks guy. Looks great the way Greebo showed it. I am stunned actually... I will try working through this post and get back with questions. Great summary of what I am dealing with. You have my gratitude again.
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OK then that has changed since Waffle first explained the new files to the Skinner Team. As I understood it the game would use a bump map if no normal map had been supplied.
Vraciu I've moved my viewpoint around more in the skin viewer and from some angles I can see the rivet issue you mentioned earlier. Try making your aluminium on the spec map less shiny and/or your rivets not as raised.
I will try it. What I can't figure out is why they are only present in some areas of the panel lines. As if I copied and pasted down those panel lines and picked up some sort of noise that was not visible in AH2 but is in AH3. Very strange.
Also the rivets are not raised they are dimpled. I hope that is some clue to solve the riddle.
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Will your AH2 skin look exactly like it does in AH2, when it is converted to AH3? I don't know yet. We just did our first batch of skins. Take a look at the same P51D skin when it is down loaded in AH3 and you tell us.
All the bare metal Pony skins I looked at, including mine, look really washed out compared to AH2 depending on lighting angle. Even painted areas on some (like Red Tail 7, P-51D) look bright white in some spots, and definitely overexposed. I will post a screenshot tomorrow for reference.
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(EDIT IN: The Viewer is stealing the panel lines from the default Mustang and not from my files. See second upload below.)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c155/Jonchaz/Aces%20High/Vraciu_P-51D_Skin_SC1_zps3jlgn2yf.jpg)
I was able to duplicate this on my viewer. I was also able to create a Normal Map for the P51_N.bmp file. However, the panel lines shown in the image above are present with or without the _N and/or _S files and do not seem to duplicate my skin. THE ONLY THING I CAN GUESS is that the viewer is taking the rivets from my P51D.bmp main file and giving them depth that I do not intend as they are only present on that file (I have them on the Spec file but even when I delete that they still show up as depressions when they should be flush). Is that possible?
I am also unable to fly my skin offline as I could in AH2 (it would list my skin twice if already in the game and once if not--in AH3A it is showing only the in-game skin).
I apologize for monopolizing this section for the last couple of days, but I really want to get this right.
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If your normal map is named "P51_N.bmp" then that may be your problem, it should be "P51D_N.bmp".
To view your skin in the alpha game the files' folder needs to be in the alpha skins folder and the folder needs to include the hangar text description file, "p51d.txt" in your case.
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If your normal map is named "P51_N.bmp" then that may be your problem, it should be "P51D_N.bmp".
To view your skin in the alpha game the files' folder needs to be in the alpha skins folder and the folder needs to include the hangar text description file, "p51d.txt" in your case.
I have all of that. All named correctly. (Sorry for the typo in the post above.)
Look at your own screenshot. Those panel lines and rivets that are bumped are the default skin's not mine. (Compare my panel lines under NO LIGHTING to the ones that appear under ALL LIGHTING or LIGHTING ONLY / SPECULAR ONLY.)
I have deleted everything I can find of the default map and it still imports those panel lines and rivets onto my skin from somewhere no matter what my P51D_S and _N files contain.
:headscratch:
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The game/viewer will used a default normal and specular map, if they are not provided.
If you provide them, then that is what will be used.
Real easy to test. Create a flat specular map (R128,G128,B128 for all pixels) and a flat normal map (R128,G128,B255 for all pixels) and it will produce a flat skin in the skin viewer.
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The game/viewer will used a default normal and specular map, if they are not provided.
If you provide them, then that is what will be used.
Real easy to test. Create a flat specular map (R128,G128,B128 for all pixels) and a flat normal map (R128,G128,B255 for all pixels) and it will produce a flat skin in the skin viewer.
I have provided it and the viewer ignores it, opting for the default instead. I believe Greebo has experienced the same result both with my P-51D and his Ki-43.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,375903.msg5008301.html#msg5008301
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There is something happening. Hitech is going to look into it.
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There is something happening. Hitech is going to look into it.
:aok :cheers:
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Yes, he found a bug.
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And he posted a test executable for you guys to try out.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,375706.msg5008356.html#msg5008356
Just remember; DO NOT RENAME THE TEST FILE!! IT WILL BREAK THE NEXT PATCH IF YOU DO!
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And he posted a test executable for you guys to try out.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,375706.msg5008356.html#msg5008356
Just remember; DO NOT RENAME THE TEST FILE!! IT WILL BREAK THE NEXT PATCH IF YOU DO!
:aok :salute