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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Oddball-CAF on November 17, 2015, 11:30:34 PM

Title: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: Oddball-CAF on November 17, 2015, 11:30:34 PM
  Okay, here's an idea I think has some merit both from a gameplay perspective
and a good way to use up some bomber perks: a towed glider which a C47 could
drag along behind it. The glider would carry anywhere from 5-10 troops which
could be used as backups.
  The glider would be non-pilotable and could be tethered to the C47 like the
drones currently are for bomber formations.
  The glider wouldn't be free however. It'd cost perhaps 2-5 perks.
  Not everyone likes to fly B29s or A234s, so this'd also be a good way to put
some bomber perks to good use.
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: Vraciu on November 18, 2015, 07:23:48 AM
  Okay, here's an idea I think has some merit both from a gameplay perspective
and a good way to use up some bomber perks: a towed glider which a C47 could
drag along behind it. The glider would carry anywhere from 5-10 troops which
could be used as backups.
  The glider would be non-pilotable and could be tethered to the C47 like the
drones currently are for bomber formations.
  The glider wouldn't be free however. It'd cost perhaps 2-5 perks.
  Not everyone likes to fly B29s or A234s, so this'd also be a good way to put
some bomber perks to good use.

Let the Lanc drag a glider, too, since we have no Hallifax or Sterling.
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: guncrasher on November 18, 2015, 09:06:02 AM
oddball, If people dont want to use perks for ar's or b29's that can actually defend themselves or runaway, why would they spend them on a sure way to die?


semp
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: popeye on November 18, 2015, 09:40:22 AM
Yes.

And allow "formations" of three C-47s for base/town/strat resupply.

Risking perks would make the resupply run more <cough> interesting.


kong
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: lyric1 on November 18, 2015, 10:27:47 AM
Yes.

And allow "formations" of three C-47s for base/town/strat resupply.

Risking perks would make the resupply run more <cough> interesting.


kong

Your not thinking big enough.
Bomb town/troops for capture/then resupply all with one set.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,322970.msg4215849.html#msg4215849
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: The Fugitive on November 18, 2015, 11:17:41 AM
The biggest problem is that HiTech said that the day he makes it so a single player can bring more than 10 troops is the day he increases the number of troops it needs to capture a base.

So if he did this, everyone would have to take a goon and a glider.

As for supplies, it would be easier and quick just to change the setting from 10 minutes  per load to 12 minutes per load. I don't supply is really an issue. It is one of the few things I see people jump to help out with in the game.
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: Oddball-CAF on November 18, 2015, 11:57:50 AM
oddball, If people dont want to use perks for ar's or b29's that can actually defend themselves or runaway, why would they spend them on a sure way to die?
semp

  By that same logic, Semp, why would anybody up a single C47? What is being "bought" here with
the glider/perks is an increase in the odds that a particular base might be captured.
  ie: assuming one actually does get a C47 to a town/base and gets the troops out, having
15 or more chutes in the air gives the pilot and the cadre attempting the capture a better
shot at it being successful.
  As it currently stands, loss of a -single- paratrooper disallows a capture.
Think about that.... a single paratrooper's "death" scraps the entire mission.
So yeah, I'd most definitely spend a few bomber perks on a glider to better the
odds that my twenty minute C47 ride wasn't for naught.
 
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: Scca on November 18, 2015, 12:29:38 PM
  By that same logic, Semp, why would anybody up a single C47? What is being "bought" here with
the glider/perks is an increase in the odds that a particular base might be captured.
  ie: assuming one actually does get a C47 to a town/base and gets the troops out, having
15 or more chutes in the air gives the pilot and the cadre attempting the capture a better
shot at it being successful.
  As it currently stands, loss of a -single- paratrooper disallows a capture.
Think about that.... a single paratrooper's "death" scraps the entire mission.
So yeah, I'd most definitely spend a few bomber perks on a glider to better the
odds that my twenty minute C47 ride wasn't for naught.
 
Bring more than one goon?
 <shrug>
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: guncrasher on November 18, 2015, 12:32:13 PM
  By that same logic, Semp, why would anybody up a single C47? What is being "bought" here with
the glider/perks is an increase in the odds that a particular base might be captured.
  ie: assuming one actually does get a C47 to a town/base and gets the troops out, having
15 or more chutes in the air gives the pilot and the cadre attempting the capture a better
shot at it being successful.
  As it currently stands, loss of a -single- paratrooper disallows a capture.
Think about that.... a single paratrooper's "death" scraps the entire mission.
So yeah, I'd most definitely spend a few bomber perks on a glider to better the
odds that my twenty minute C47 ride wasn't for naught.
 

there wont be an advantage to bringing a glider.  if you can bring 20 troops then it will take 20 troops to take the base.


semp
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: earl1937 on November 19, 2015, 02:42:21 PM
  By that same logic, Semp, why would anybody up a single C47? What is being "bought" here with
the glider/perks is an increase in the odds that a particular base might be captured.
  ie: assuming one actually does get a C47 to a town/base and gets the troops out, having
15 or more chutes in the air gives the pilot and the cadre attempting the capture a better
shot at it being successful.
  As it currently stands, loss of a -single- paratrooper disallows a capture.
Think about that.... a single paratrooper's "death" scraps the entire mission.
So yeah, I'd most definitely spend a few bomber perks on a glider to better the
odds that my twenty minute C47 ride wasn't for naught.
 
:airplane: Since said glider does not have a pilot, would that count as a "kill" if you shot it down and left the goon alone, or two kills if you killed them both? Are, better than that, if you shot down the goon and the glider would crash because of no pilot, that would two kills, right?
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: Oddball-CAF on November 19, 2015, 05:10:49 PM
  As I see it, it work work just like the bomber formations do. In a bomber formation, if
a drone is killed, it's a legit kill. Same would apply to the glider.
  If you'd put -no- rounds into the drone, if it crashed, you may or may not
get the "proxy kill", same as the bombers work now.
  Nothing would change.
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: guncrasher on November 19, 2015, 06:45:00 PM
oddball, I think you are ignoring the fact that if you can bring 20 troops (10 on the c47 and 10 on the glider)  then the number of troops needed to take the base will increase to 20.

so there's no advantage.


semp
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: Oddball-CAF on November 20, 2015, 10:28:21 AM
   I wasn't aware that the game was hard coded such that the amount of troops in the air dictated
how many are required to capture said field/base.
Thank you for that insight.
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: guncrasher on November 20, 2015, 12:39:53 PM
   I wasn't aware that the game was hard coded such that the amount of troops in the air dictated
how many are required to capture said field/base.
Thank you for that insight.

you may want to read what fugitive wrote about the number of troops that can be brought by one player.


semp
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: Oddball-CAF on November 20, 2015, 01:11:29 PM
  I did in fact read it. If Hitech decided from the first iteration of Aces High that it was
absolutely perfect and required no "tinkering" whatsoever, we'd still be looking at the
"Aces High" which was first released to the public with regards, to planes, gameplay, and
graphics.
  Obviously, that is not the case.
  So, one might possibly be able to construe from that, that Hitech's visions
are "subject to change" and not "cast in stone".
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: Randy1 on November 20, 2015, 01:56:28 PM
In WW2 did the C-47 pulling the glider have troops on board as well?


Might be cool to have no troops in the C-47 when you towed a glider.  Then near the town, release the glider and it auto glides near the town then when stops lets the troops run.  I would also add the glider would have no icon.

Interesting idea Oddball.
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: guncrasher on November 20, 2015, 02:44:44 PM
then oddball if that is the case then why not ask for the number of troops in a c47 to be increased?  they didnt carry 10.


semp
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: Oddball-CAF on November 20, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Guncrasher,
 You need to find another ankle to hump.
If you're after "plutonium" status as an AH forum poster,
you're doing a fine job.
Oh wait.... I see you're already a "plutonium" member.  :D
 
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: bustr on November 20, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
1. - Troops never bailed out of gliders so you need someone to land the glider and kick out the troops. Landings will have to be precise due to no engine for a go around. You have probably killed many players now due to poor landing skills and uncertain terrain if they can land within the troop max range to trigger them to run to the map room. Might be kinder to allow storches to land and kick out a single trooper.

2. - As mentioned, if you "can" show up with 15-20 troops because you convinced Hitech to changed the game, Hitech will make the capture requirement 15-20 troops.

3. - A glider is a come and kill me dinner sign slowly fluttering in the air to everything with a popgun along with a hindrance to the C47 which is already at an incredible disadvantage. So the player flying the C47 will screw the player flying the glider out of the possible chance for self preservation and getting troops to the map room.

4. - Why not ask for one of the RAF repurposed bombers that acted as drop ships for commandos?
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: pembquist on November 20, 2015, 05:34:41 PM
How about this: costs perks, glider and c47 are flown by 2 pilots, glider has no icon, glider must land to drop troops or supplies or a jeep with troops or a jeep with supplies troops, historical glide ratio.
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: bustr on November 20, 2015, 06:02:06 PM
How about this: costs perks, glider and c47 are flown by 2 pilots, glider has no icon, glider must land to drop troops or supplies or a jeep with troops or a jeep with supplies troops, historical glide ratio.

Much better but, won't this be abused once someone figures out how to slip in their own gliders to an airspace since you are asking for no icon? Then who do you shoot down and not killshoot yourself. Gliders as you pointed out carried much more than troops.

Hey George how do we know which glider is carrying troops to take this town and which is resupplying it? Well just heck, our guys are on VOX and, hmmm, that's a lot of gliders flying close to each other. Hmmmm, they only get one shot at this. Tell our guys to swing to the north side of the town and land. Hey George, all the gliders swung to the north side of the town and one already landed...and our fighter guys won't shoot at any of them...killshooter is on...the auto ack is back up and the flag is red again......
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: pembquist on November 20, 2015, 10:05:31 PM
I meant no icon for the enemy to see. Its a little wacky but the logic was that gliders were used for stealthy reasons so no icon for the enemy to make them stealthy in game and give them an advantage over the plain vanilla C-47 but perk them because they have stealth.

Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: Oldman731 on November 21, 2015, 10:54:43 PM
I meant no icon for the enemy to see. Its a little wacky but the logic was that gliders were used for stealthy reasons so no icon for the enemy to make them stealthy in game and give them an advantage over the plain vanilla C-47 but perk them because they have stealth.


The theory of gliders, I believe, was to land the troops in a bunch, rather than scattered around like the parachute folks.  I'm fairly sure that glider infantry didn't have parachutes at all.

- oldman (but I might be wrong!)
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: Skyguns MKII on November 22, 2015, 12:36:59 AM
Technically speaking of you had separate pilots in the goon and glider being towed (asuming that they both carried troops at the same time) it would still be only 10 troops per player for you code crusaders. Perhaps the goon could select a glider loadout that can only be activated when another player joins as a gunner and switches position while idle on runway. Food for thought...
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: Tilt on November 22, 2015, 04:09:11 AM
Isn't the number of troops required defined as a terrain setting? Object hardness?

Re use of drone COAD.

Actually if you place an invisible runway object out side a town then drones will land on it if you "drop gear" from the correct approach. The existing drone "tethers" already seem to vary ( you can see how a glider drone might work if you mess about with bostons , which seem to have a long and at times quite flexible tether.)

So you don't need a glider pilot just a tether release which could be the same as releasing a bomb via weapon select.

There are then several options how to model it.

Release it and let AI land (per drones) and AI release troops when it stops.

Release it and let AI land (per drones) and manually release troops (weapon select etc) when ready.

Release it and fly it in. Here which ever plane you are not flying adopts auto level (tow plane) or auto speed (glider). The player moves between planes as he/she moves between drones now. Troops released as they are now. Here you don't need runway objects but suffer the vulnerability of which ever aircraft you are not actually piloting.

I think the key challenge to game play is the development of any game play advantage to using them. Because of the capture set up there does not seem to be any real advantage to their use.

One advantage in RL is that they put multiple troops down ( more) accurately in one spot.... Whereas para troops were often scattered and suffered a higher rate of attrition. Plus AH troops get dropped over towns and dense wood land without loss so our cartoon troops are so reliable that gliders lose any advantage.

I surmise that for gliders to have any benefit, paratroops should be modelled to suffer more of their RL limitations.
Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: save on November 24, 2015, 06:34:41 AM
The use of gliders permitted heavier weapons (read heavy mg and bazookas) and more ammunition for the troops, that's all, coherence is of secondary priority. even jeeps could be deployed this way..  imagine 10 gliders landing with jeeps with bazooka troops...
 

Title: Re: Gliders As A Use For "Bomber Perks"
Post by: earl1937 on November 24, 2015, 10:53:41 PM
The use of gliders permitted heavier weapons (read heavy mg and bazookas) and more ammunition for the troops, that's all, coherence is of secondary priority. even jeeps could be deployed this way..  imagine 10 gliders landing with jeeps with bazooka troops...
:banana I think this would be a great addition to the game! There are serveral bases now in play, which have no spawns into them and this would be a great way to attack the base for capture.
What I would advocate is when you decide to turn the glider loose for landing, you have the option of placing the "goon" on auto pilot, release and join the glider, land it safely, release troops or jeep, the be able to rejoin "goon" already in flight for RTB!
And while I am on this line of thinking, the goon shouldn't have an icon anyway, and I would want that for the glider as well!
The goon icon in the game now, makes it to easy to spot, so the icon should be removed from the game for that aircraft! Same with the "Storch", it shouldn't have an icon either!