Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kirin on May 19, 2000, 10:06:00 PM
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Wow - only flew one mission there (it started 4am local time here) but had the time of my (virtual flying-) life.
Because I was obviously a bit short of time I took off premature and flew in front of the main formation. Not long and I ran into the allied main formation. I turned back home with a white-shining dot on my far 6 amongst some black ones. I led them back to our 109s and the 2 formations clashed. After some fierce furballing I was able to pick a P38 (Joemud) off one of my countrymen. The fight went on - looking for enemies - dodging friends mistaken as enemies - shooting down Spits at point blank range when I could see the patches on the pilots jacket. Got 4 kills on the way and thought it a good time to rtb when I saw two planes batteling each other. Since I still had 17 rounds of 30mm left I decided to head back into the fight. I could not make out which was the enemy the chased one or the hunter... Then the latter shot down it's prey. Kill buffer said "victory #1 by Joemud" - great I thought there he is again the dreaded P38 pilot now in a spit. I moved onto his dead six and squezed the trigger. Most of the 30mm missed and I kept hosing him with MGs. His plane began smoking and he pulled down and away --- when I saw the markings on the underside of his wings, followed by a cry on the friendly radio buffer!!! *KIIIRIN* it said... Now I finally realised my mistake - I had shot down a fellow pilot... well that completed my 5th kill and I returned to base to give back my wings...
Wah - NO ICON is just what flying is about!!! It's been a blast everytime I did it. The thrill, the paranoia, the satisfaction when you get the kill... HT please get the NO ICON setting working; at least in SEA - even if computers aren't as far to give real life visual experience flying with this limitations and without icons is a thousand times better than this billboard shooting... it adds a whole new dimension to AH!! Now give us a bit more spottable camo and here we go!!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Joemud - I owe you a drink - and I have to work on my plane spotting skills... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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~Kirin~
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/kirin.jpg)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/home.htm)
[This message has been edited by Kirin (edited 05-19-2000).]
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I agree, it is one heck of a great environment.
We do need to get those ICONS controlled from the HOST though. There is still a heck of a lot of guys flying around, by accident or design, with them ON from both sides. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
The tip off is when a friendly flys by and says "Hi Badger"...hehe, or a bad guy drops out of the sky full bore from being a dot with guns blazing before visual range.
Anyway, it is a lot of fun and I think demonstrates the potential of what this type of arena can offer us in the future.
Also, a good bunch of people as well.
Regards,
Badger
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 05-19-2000).]
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hehe flying as an observer was even fun, I was calling out all kinds of contacts since that was all i could do, I saw a con barelling in on our six from on high and called 666 but it was just seconds to late and we died (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
we need those CM tools though (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Badger:
The tip off is when a friendly flys by and says "Hi Badger"...hehe, or a bad guy drops out of the sky full bore from being a dot with guns blazing before visual range.
[/B]
Rgr, Badger. I had icons on on my first reconnoiter to test the connect in that arena (it was me that commed you (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)). Our function was supposed to be at 10:30 ET, but the Luftwaffe never comm'd us. The general consensus of my squad was that "Boy Scouts Honor" wasn't working.
This is a lot of fun to me, but I want the arena cleared of icons if we continue. It should be nearly impossible to HO on the initial merge, unless they have icons on. I saw three incidents of attempted HO, and one case where my flight had a lone plane bracketed, only for him to turn on whomever was closest. That's a dead give away.
This feels like a good thing to pursue, for the purists. I know not everyone will fly there, but it would make for the closest thing we have to accuracy, IMHO.
(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/vosssig.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Voss (edited 05-20-2000).]
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I decided to jump up in a bf109. I was flying east looking for a rumooured b17 formation.. so I'm casually flying along. I then "casually" look right, and there off my formation are 4 b17s in formation with a couple p51s escort (around 2k distance (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)). So after having a nervous breakdown, a peel around for an attack. I guess that's when the p51s decided I was a baddy and proceeded to engage me. The battle was damn exciting.. it ended with me getting one kill. With no icons you are really forced to get close and personal with guys.. none of this "600yard" shooting business.
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I had a heluva time with HO's.. can't tell if they's comin or goin. All my deaths but one were in HO's I thought were dead 6:00 AOT shots.
Pickin out who to shoot was not hard.. when he gets to what looks like guns range I'd snap on full zoom; and if he was manuvering it was easy to pick out the spits from the 109's. 205's were easy. Very diffrent cammo.
Of course; being in a P51, I had no friendly fire incidents. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I's suggest enemy/friendly icons of some sort at double gun range.. the zoom ain't very realistic, and my human eyballs can easily distinguish real aircraft plane types in the real world at 2000 yards. A red or green dot would suffice.. becoming vis at reasonable aircraft type recgnition distances (d3.0??)so we don't need to use and (struggle with) the zoom keys would be nice..
Had fun.. and we killed lotsa LW stuff. Was like a smorgasboard. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Salute! All of you who flew!
Hang
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Well, WRT HO's possible without icons...
Yes, they are. 19" monitor here, 1024. I can see quite well. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Got caught in a couple 51 sandwiches tonight. Good fights! I knocked a couple down, but inevitably was taken down by the survivor. It wasn't all the Allied way, Hang. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Salute to all of you....great fights!
Had a hard time seeing plane shapes tho....hard to tell change of direction.
Was great fun nonetheless (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I got that feelin I was tellin you about hang (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Rude Out!
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The Musketeers took off from 22 in <5> B-17s
It was awesome cause we knew that friendly collisions was on and we had to carefully maneuver into formation. Man you had to hear the RW chatter with no icons, straight out of 12 O'Clock High. I was fortunate to evade all the bogeys on the way to 4 and was able to take out my assigned target the northernmost fighter hangar. After the 180 turn I dropped my second salvo on the tower but met my end I suspect at the end of HaHa's bullet stream. No Icons, the way to go.
On the subject of No Icons. HT c'mon turn them off at the source. Till they do so, if you "suspect" somebody has them on just put out a reminder on the chanel. We've got to assume that everybody in there is honorable. Damn! What kinda sick pup would keep icons on when everybody is supposed to have them off. And, please, no suggestions to turn them off just cause you think somebody or other has them on. Just go to MA and enjoy the billboards passing by.
I luv it!
Beeg
Originally posted by HaHa:
I decided to jump up in a bf109. I was flying east looking for a rumooured b17 formation.. so I'm casually flying along. I then "casually" look right, and there off my formation are 4 b17s in formation with a couple p51s escort (around 2k distance (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)). So after having a nervous breakdown, a peel around for an attack. I guess that's when the p51s decided I was a baddy and proceeded to engage me. The battle was damn exciting.. it ended with me getting one kill. With no icons you are really forced to get close and personal with guys.. none of this "600yard" shooting business.
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(http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/beeger.jpg)
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This is from a couple of days ago, but it was in the SEA turned HA with icons off. It's a film of a B26 raid going to take out hangers and a luftwabble base (and is why the B26 is now used as a standin for the JU88 (they say it's because they dinnae want id conflicts, but that's what the radio is for (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) )). This is the second such raid, the first hit A4, forcing the LW to fly from A3, this one hits A3.
http://www.rivertown-computers.com/cmj/4-b26-lolvl-ha.zip (http://www.rivertown-computers.com/cmj/4-b26-lolvl-ha.zip)
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Rude...
LOL!
Kirien.. it wuz from where I sat. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 05-20-2000).]
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I was supposed to be on Kirins wing during his 'mission'..after the first turn, we lost each other! Had fun, as I have all week, except I have this tendancy to look in my rear view mirror while driving an automobile WAY to much!
We need icons set up similiar to what WB's had, no icons for enemy, and friendly icons up to , say, 1/2 mile.
My apologies to Ranger Bob, as I had just finished off a spitfire, he zoomed in from of me, I pursued, and shot him down...whats wrong with that you say? Well, he FLEW FOR THE SAME COUNTRY AS ME! LOL, we laughed about it.
<S> all of you~!
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Hey ripsnort....
Don't feel bad. After seeing a big blue F4Uc move slowly from my 9 to my 11, I tried making 2 different IFF calls on both channel 100 and Knights country channel with no reply. I then radioed intent to shoot him down as I thought he might have been a "bish" interloper who had wandered into scenario.
I bagged him as he dropped tanks and began a dive into a huge pile of dots near friendly base 38. Turned out to be allied F4Uc from my side. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/redface.gif)
hehe...then wasted 15 minutes of game time trying to explain what was going on, because he thought I had done him wrong....ughhhhh!
Another important reason to get CM tools in place that besides dealing with the icons, permit restriction of aircraft and countries from being selected. It would also be nice to have a PAGE display as one enters arena, so that the CM can setup and describe the configuration that's currently playing.
In spite of the rough edges, I have found it really enjoyable.
I also like the different caliber of pilots and personalities than one generally finds in the MA.
I watched some amazing flying last night on both sides, but saw a few engagements involving guys like yourself, Kirin, Hangtime, Sundog, Citabria and Rude to name a few, where there was some particularly awesome virtual flying. I need to get some lessons from these guys. I had a great scrap with BigJim....man can that guy maneuver a 205...<salute>
hehe..even my squaddie Kieren banged me on the head with one of his flippers in a great bounce, while flying for the dark side.
bonus....nobody asked "what is a rudder for?".....hehehe
Salute to all....
Regards,
Badger
The New Baby Harp Seals
hey Voss....thanks for letting me know, but actually, I was referring to another friendly who said "Hey Badger!" a few times . (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Even funnier, I got the following as well from yet another allied pilot: "Badger 6666".....hehehe...... They must have seen my handsome "Galland" like profile and flying scarf protruding from the cockpit, smoking that huge cigar as a way of identifying who I was. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 05-20-2000).]
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I had one of the most exciting flights ever last night. I was in a 190 winging with Ripsnort who was in a 109g10. I was at abot 15k while he was slightly ahead of me, starting his descent into a furball ahead. All of a sudden I see a p51 about 1 mile at my 1:00 diving on ripsnort. So I call his 6 and start to manuver towards the p51.
At about this time I start to think "hmm I wonder if he has a wingman too". So I check my 6 to see a p51 at about 400 yards parked on my 6 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif) I split-S just as he oppend up w/ those 6 .50's. I started my pattented negative G "please God I hope this works" manuver when I started taking hits, and lost my left aileron. I dove towards rip and made a pass at the 51 on him, but this guy was on me GOOD. I finaly had to dive for the deck and was able to shake the 51, but I had to leave the fight to do it. I looked around and the sky was clear and peaceful.
I have a feeling that was hangtime and his wingman. They bounced me the flight b4 that too and hangtime shot up my beloved a8. I'll get you hangtime! and your little dog too! er... wrong movie and your little cat too! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
BTW, here are a couple of things I've noticed in the last week. My flights seem to all take 45 min to an hour now. The big thing is all the plane detail I notice now. I am actualy watching the plane instead of the icon. I can clearly see the bullet stream from the wings on a spit or from the nose of the 109 or 38. The plane detail up close is awesome. I like no icons up close (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Udie
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Originally posted by Udie:
I have a feeling that was hangtime and his wingman.
...various snipped stuff...
Udie
Yep, that was us. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) We had to let you go, the other element that you missed called high cons. One 109 ended up ditching before we could finish him (gee, that should be a kill) and we egressed after an unidentified con (maybe Japanese? wtf?) hit my stbd wing tank.
The heat was great! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I was so busy keeping tally on my wing, that a lot of cons got away.
I still want the option in the MA, so we don't lose anyone, but it would be nice to put a day or two per week in on an arena like this.
(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/vosssig.jpg)
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I think it should be nightly, alternating ETO, Afrika, PTO, Eastern front. What do you guys think?
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For those having a hard time identifying aircraft use the Army's own method taught to me...
The WEFT method...
Wings: Wings
Engine: (actually the cowling will do)
Fusalage: Body of Aircraft
Tail: Tail section
using this method in AH also works well with the zoom key...
Im running at 800x 600 and i can identify the aircraft very well...
just my 2 cents
Get that Events arena converted to no icon arena....
DoctoryO
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I had a great time last night doing this. Even had the chance to sneak my p51 up on Udie and score a kill. There wasn't that 100ft billboard givin me away back there. I look forward to doing it again (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
It sure makes ya sweat a little seeing a furball ahead and not knowing who is who till ya get there.
I even managed not to rip the wings off my of stang all night. That felt good (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hope to see ya all next time!
S!
Rocket
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Exciting thats for sure but.......
Extremely difficult to communicate with wingman and friendlies due to not knowing who was who. This was like flying with a RW blindfold.
The part I was in was more like a regular main arena furball without icons. Difficult
and frustrating.
In my opinion, HA icons would be preferrable
unless the mission is very defined and the enemy sticks to a single countries plane types.
Yeager
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Yeager, let me take it one step farther: exciting but NOT more realistic. Icons are not only necessary to tell friend from foe, but to give you a better idea of closing speeds. While no real world pilot could tell if an enemy plane was 998 yards away or only 997 yards away, he could at least tell if the enemy was getting closer or farther away. It is also not unreasonable to be able to ID an enemy plane from a mile away. In the real world an F4F pilot may mis-identify a Ki-43 as a Zeke from a mile away, but he wouldn't mis-ID it for an F4F. With no icons we go from unrealistically good SA to Mr. Magoo SA. It can be fun, but when 'stealth' and monitor size/res become a factor in a furball, something's wrong.
The best cure for icon super SA is to have icons not show up unless the other plane itself is visible, not hidden behind part of your airframe or a hill or a hangar. This has to be tough to code, but if it can be done it would eliminate a lot of the complaints against icons.
ra
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ra,
I liked Vypers post on visual cues.
A camo painted small single engine plane simply cannot be identified by plane type out at 4.5 miles. Let alone gets its aspect, exact range, and/or rate of closure.
It IS more realistic then the icon setup we have now, for the reasons I gave above.
It is not perfect, I agree, but more realistic yes. 4.5 nm is a long way off to be able to discern all of that critical info don't you think?
I agree with not being able to see the icon if its hidden behind an airframe or something, but it would not eliminate alot of the complaints. I think the detection range should be less, and the info be additive as the range closes. For instance if the con is at 4k yards (2 3/4 miles) then you should get aircraft type. Inside of say 2k yards, range info becomes available. Inside 1k u loose range info, this would be more accurate. The range counter inside 1k yards is like putting a laser sight on your rifle.
And finally, maybe tone down the color of the icons as well. To me that's a good middle ground.
Cobra
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Cobra,
Icon settings are currently way too long, maybe it's to make things easier for newbies. And icons by their very existence are a reminder that visual realism can only be poorly simulated on a 2D monitor. It's tough to say the words 'icons' and 'realism' in the same sentence.
That said, there's still a basic argument to be made that icons are more realistic than no icons: icons lead pilots to develop realistic ACM tactics, no icons leads to weird gamelike tactics.
With icons on, we learn that energy management is the key to long-term success, furballing is done only for fun or as a last resort, or to seal-club some poor enemy who have squandered their E.
With no icons speed and altitude are reduced in value, stealth suddenly becomes important. With BnZ so difficult, furballs are the rule, and then plane color becomes a major factor. Plane color should not be a factor in a furball. I've never heard of a daylight furball in the real world where the aircrafts' paint jobs mattered.
I also have to wonder how many people in the no-icon HA are leaving icons off all the time. Turning icons on for 3 seconds could make all the difference, and I'm cynical enough to think that many people are yeilding to the temptation. So what we have is a 'mostly no icons' HA.
One thing that does work well with no icons is a 1 v 1 between 2 P-51s. These planes are easy to see so the lack of a range icon is not a big deal, and with only 1 opponent you don't have to worry about a ghost sneeking up on you from out of the murk below. The most egregious problem with icons is that they are a 'shoot here' indicator during deflection shooting, flying without them is a whole new game.
ra
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Let me add what I forgot to mention: Friendly collisions and killshooter off were the best features to last nights event i m o.
I enjoyed the event even though I was frustrated. It would also be nice if the arena controlled the icon settings. I was very tempted to flick those things on when my SA became crowded and haphazard under 2k.
Yeager
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Hehehe Badger that 205 was a 190 <grin> I never flew anything but the 190 in there and was the first time I have tried the sea, what a blast (except RWY seemed to have my number LOL)
BigJim
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none of this "600yard" shooting business.
Plenty of that business in the historical record. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Historically, where was the converngence for the weapons usually set?
I ask because:
1.) I don't know
2.) What ever that range was, would be the range that most of the fighting took place, and the range that most pilots would move into to get the kill.
3.) And historically, at or inside the convergence range is probably where most of the kills were scored.
Does anyone have any info on the ranges where most of the fighter to fighter kills were accomplished?
Cobra
[This message has been edited by Cobra (edited 05-20-2000).]
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Everything I've ever read indicates that guns were "harmonized" for something like 300yds. Guns could be setup to converge, or group. There doesn't seem to be any record of what specific range, or harmonization technique was more common. I saw an interview on "The History Channel" of an F6F fighter pilot that stated his guns were set to converge at three different ranges, so as to give him a long "cone of effect."
(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/vosssig.jpg)
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Originally posted by BigJim:
Hehehe Badger that 205 was a 190 <grin> I never flew anything but the 190 in there and was the first time I have tried the sea, what a blast (except RWY seemed to have my number LOL)
hehe...well, it just goes to show you that old guys like me wearing bifocals should have a handicap when playing with no icons.
I don't care if you were in a Cessna 172, you flew the pants off me. <Salute>
Regards,
Bagder