Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Randy1 on December 03, 2015, 03:27:39 PM
Title: P-38 attacking bomber formation-angle of attack?
Post by: Randy1 on December 03, 2015, 03:27:39 PM
I can make a good slashing attack on a bomber formation from a high position, and survive but the amount of damage I do per pass with the P-38 is not as much as I would want. On occasions, while taking my time slashing away at a set of B17s as an example, a P-47 or heavy hitting canon plane will pull up on the bomber's six and take them out.
My passes are very close to the red bombers often going between planes in the formation. The P-38 has the hitting power but I don't seem to be able to attack at an angle that gets enough hits to take a bomber out on the first pass. On the bomber's six, with zoom, you can do a lot of damage but as everyone knows, that will get you shot down in a hurry.
Any suggestions for the proper attack method using a P-38?
Title: Re: P-38 attacking bomber formation-angle of attack?
Post by: FLS on December 03, 2015, 03:42:46 PM
Put the bomber in your front quarter view and hold it steady on the cockpit glass until you get close then duck. Practice on the drones.
Let me know if you need help with that. Here's a film but you need to play it in the alpha. Bomber Merge (https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/vghMuKjoEZkR1NAUsaapqMQBOnS8ZBoLKfsH3wy1JaQ?ref_=cd_ph_share_link_copy)
And let's reserve angle of attack for the angle the air meets the wing. :aok
Title: Re: P-38 attacking bomber formation-angle of attack?
Post by: DmonSlyr on December 03, 2015, 04:03:24 PM
I always like to attack from the front high about 11 o'clock position. At this angle it's difficult form them to lead you and get all the guns facing you. Attack the formation from right or left or left to right so that all the guns cannot shoot you. If you come in high from the front, roll over, and get a steep angle, while shooting at the cockpit, you should hopefully kill them without them hitting you too much.
Title: Re: P-38 attacking bomber formation-angle of attack?
Post by: morfiend on December 03, 2015, 04:25:44 PM
Try setting up the attack so you get a good shot at the cockpit!
Just a few rounds into the cockpit area should do the trick,if you can get an angle so 2 of the formation plane line up you have a better chance of nailing both in the cockpit area.
It's been my experience that a good cockpit hit will make the buff go BOOM!!
YMMV.
:salute
Title: Re: P-38 attacking bomber formation-angle of attack?
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 03, 2015, 04:40:47 PM
In the Southwest Pacific, USAAF and USN pilots either used the overhead or beam attack against bombers, with the overhead attack being the preferred method.
Title: Re: P-38 attacking bomber formation-angle of attack?
Post by: Randy1 on December 03, 2015, 05:16:51 PM
Strong words of advice that should get me right on track. I thank you all. Pure good stuff.
Randy1
Title: Re: P-38 attacking bomber formation-angle of attack?
Post by: DmonSlyr on December 03, 2015, 05:50:07 PM
One more thing Randy.
After you make the pass going down. Obviously cutting throttle is necessary. Do a nose down turn under the bombers and get out in front of them quickly. This way you can climb back up out in front of the bombers rather than behind them. This allows you to roll back over from the front high 11 position, instead of climbing behind the bombers, which is their strongest position.
Title: Re: P-38 attacking bomber formation-angle of attack?
Post by: hgtonyvi on December 03, 2015, 06:14:30 PM
I usually get above them and dive straight down for the leader....as I get in closer I take the right bomber right wing and climb straight back up. Then I split S and continue the same procedures. Never ever ever ever attack from their direct 6 lol.
Title: Re: P-38 attacking bomber formation-angle of attack?
Post by: Randy1 on December 04, 2015, 05:50:36 AM
Ran into a set of bombers where the player had obviously just read this thread :D He gave up his bomb targets to do evasive maneuvers making it difficult for me to set up the front-high attack.
It's going to take some practice to get a good pattern going.
After you make the pass going down. Obviously cutting throttle is necessary. Do a nose down turn under the bombers and get out in front of them quickly. This way you can climb back up out in front of the bombers rather than behind them. This allows you to roll back over from the front high 11 position, instead of climbing behind the bombers, which is their strongest position.
I did cut back under the set and got hit by some good shooting on his part. Next time I will pay more attention to the bottom turn as you noted.
Thanks again for all the replies.
Title: Re: P-38 attacking bomber formation-angle of attack?
Post by: Mongoose on December 04, 2015, 07:59:45 AM
He gave up his bomb targets to do evasive maneuvers.
Count that as a succesful attack. Even if he got away, making him miss his target is still a win.
Title: Re: P-38 attacking bomber formation-angle of attack?
Post by: Scca on December 04, 2015, 08:45:09 AM
Regardless of type of plane, I always use the same tactic.
Attack from high and above. Depending on the bomber, I hit it in a different place. B-24, left wing root - once it's on fire, peal off and reset Lanc and B-26, Wing tip - Once you knock it off peal off. They will spiral away, and have a hard time hitting you until the bail or explode. Reset the attack.
Ask 999000 how it works :D
Title: Re: P-38 attacking bomber formation-angle of attack?
Post by: Mongoose on December 04, 2015, 09:42:11 AM
My problem is getting in the right position to start the attack. That's why I usually end up in the kill box. That and the fact that when I do get in good position for a slashing attack, I usually miss because I am a lousy shot. :frown:
Title: Re: P-38 attacking bomber formation-angle of attack?
Post by: Zoney on December 04, 2015, 10:06:12 AM
Before everything else, any skill, any plan, any flying, any gunnery.....before that all, there is one thing that you must absolutely bring and from that everything is possible.....that is Patience.
Title: Re: P-38 attacking bomber formation-angle of attack?
Post by: FLS on December 04, 2015, 02:08:21 PM
My problem is getting in the right position to start the attack. That's why I usually end up in the kill box. That and the fact that when I do get in good position for a slashing attack, I usually miss because I am a lousy shot. :frown:
Start high and in front or to the side. You end up in the kill box when you point at the bombers. If you aim at the bombers for a tracking shot you have to get your nose off the bombers before you end up on their 6.
Title: Re: P-38 attacking bomber formation-angle of attack?
Post by: Kanth on December 05, 2015, 04:38:11 PM
not sure if this helps or not but I have some film of what I think is a good series of attacks. My gunnery is still lacking (I'm only just back) but I think the approaches are sound.
not sure if this helps or not but I have some film of what I think is a good series of attacks. My gunnery is still lacking (I'm only just back) but I think the approaches are sound.
I think Randy's films would look like yours. The guns on Randy's P-38 are ideally clustered for a long shot from above and he could conceivably pull out before ending up on the dead 6 like you also did. Happily you aren't there long. When the bomber doesn't die and you keep pointing at it to shoot it you will always end up on their 6. The only way to avoid that in this type of attack is to dive below or pull out above the bombers. In either case you'd have to stop shooting a little sooner.
There is a range and dive angle where the bottom of the sight ring shows where you will consistently hit the bomber you're diving on. You can easily learn that on the offline drones with the lead computing gun sight. Aiming between the wing roots allows for dispersion at max range.
Alternately the film I posted shows how to avoid the 6 position with a slashing attack and raking fire at close range. I'm not saying it's a better way but it's fun. :D
Title: Re: P-38 attacking bomber formation-angle of attack?
Post by: Kanth on December 06, 2015, 08:27:42 AM
Yes, unfortunately my gunnery is pretty bad so I have to stay on target far too long. I'm working on it. :D
Title: Re: P-38 attacking bomber formation-angle of attack?
Post by: DmonSlyr on December 06, 2015, 03:00:32 PM
Here is a film of me attacking some bombers. You can see the methods I've described in the thread here. I only come on the dead six once I realize they are not shooting, but then there was spit after me too. Also it shows some defensive techniques during gang situations. The icons are off, but everyone thing is a red trying to kill me lol