General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DREDIOCK on January 25, 2016, 08:09:50 PM
Title: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: DREDIOCK on January 25, 2016, 08:09:50 PM
In war, typically, terrible things are done on all sides.
Interesting video. Haven't watched the whole thing yet but seems to be from the viewpoint of the average German citizen.
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: Delirium on January 25, 2016, 09:09:19 PM
If you can find a truly objective film, I'd be interested in viewing it. Unfortunately, this one is written by a one who has a known history with current white supremacists.
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: FLOOB on January 25, 2016, 10:50:53 PM
Leave it to PBS.
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 25, 2016, 10:51:09 PM
Seems to me that the video tries to make Nazi Germany the victims, not the aggressors.
That is common among white supremacists. I hear a lot of "Germany didn't start it, France and the UK did by declaring war on Germany when they didn't have to, so it was all France and the UK's fault." from such people.
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: jeep00 on January 26, 2016, 04:28:10 AM
"Stalingrad" was a pretty good flick for a foreign film. Subtitled but pretty good. Was from the Russian side of the battle.
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: Lusche on January 26, 2016, 05:07:07 AM
Did not need to look at the vid when I noticed the channel name...
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: zack1234 on January 26, 2016, 09:25:16 AM
Churchill 2 Hitler nil :old:
Well done to bomber command :salute
Hitler killed all though civilians :old:
Churchill was a fatty I liked brandy and cigars and died in bed.
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: FBDragon on January 26, 2016, 02:38:13 PM
I normally don't chime in on something like this but this one I will. This video is NOT I repeat NOT how the average "German" thinks. I have alot of family both from my adopted parents and biological parents that were in all branches of the German military during the war. Of the ones that survived the war they all said the same thing, Hitler and and the Nazi party had pulled the wool over the German peoples eyes. While they turned the economy around after WW1 they only did it to gain the support of the people for their own gain. The first 5 minutes of this video clear shows that this is more a "pro nazi" movie more than anything else.
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: WaffenVW on January 26, 2016, 03:28:26 PM
Just to point out: That "documentary" is not made by any German.
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: zack1234 on January 26, 2016, 03:31:56 PM
Neither was the Spitfire :old:
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: Tumor on January 26, 2016, 07:00:09 PM
Do you know of a truly objective one done by either side?
Like I said. I didnt watch the entire thing. And I am certainly not justifying or taking sides with the Germans. But the fact of the matter is during war all sides do terrible things. Even the "Good Guys"
For example Band of Brothers "Speirs" not only really did shoot those prisoners, but also two of his own Sergeants under his own command.
There was no good reason for the bombing of Dresden at that late stage of the war And the account presented in the video seems accurate as corroborated by this article authored by English Historian Dominic Selwood http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/11410633/Dresden-was-a-civilian-town-with-no-military-significance.-Why-did-we-burn-its-people.html
" From 13 to 15 February 1945, British (and some American) heavy bombers dropped 2,400 tons of high explosives and 1,500 tons of incendiary bombs onto the ancient cathedral city of Dresden. In just a few hours, around 25,000 to 35,000 civilians were blown up or incinerated.
Victor Gregg, a British para captured at Arnhem, was a prisoner of war in Dresden that night who was ordered to help with the clear up. In a 2014 BBC interview he recalled the hunt for survivors after the apocalyptic firestorm. In one incident, it took his team seven hours to get into a 1,000-person air-raid shelter in the Altstadt. Once inside, they found no survivors or corpses: just a green-brown liquid with bones sticking out of it. The cowering people had all melted."
Only about 7% of Germans were Nazis. Yet as is almost always the case during war in the 20th century. It is the civilians who suffer the most. And the civilians from either side are indeed the victims.
Our troops. The ones who had entered and or fought their way from North Africa, through Sicily, Italy, France and into Germany and all other points in between often found of all the places they had been and lands they had fought in. In the end the one people they found they had the most in common with. Were the German people
I thought it would be interesting to see and hear of the German civilian experience. Not as a way to glorify or justify the Nazis. But just to hear the experience from their side.
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: DREDIOCK on January 26, 2016, 09:05:41 PM
Do you know of a truly objective one done by either side?
Like I said. I didnt watch the entire thing. And I am certainly not justifying or taking sides with the Germans. But the fact of the matter is during war all sides do terrible things. Even the "Good Guys"
For example Band of Brothers "Speirs" not only really did shoot those prisoners, but also two of his own Sergeants under his own command.
There was no good reason for the bombing of Dresden at that late stage of the war And the account presented in the video seems accurate as corroborated by this article authored by English Historian Dominic Selwood http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/11410633/Dresden-was-a-civilian-town-with-no-military-significance.-Why-did-we-burn-its-people.html
" From 13 to 15 February 1945, British (and some American) heavy bombers dropped 2,400 tons of high explosives and 1,500 tons of incendiary bombs onto the ancient cathedral city of Dresden. In just a few hours, around 25,000 to 35,000 civilians were blown up or incinerated.
Victor Gregg, a British para captured at Arnhem, was a prisoner of war in Dresden that night who was ordered to help with the clear up. In a 2014 BBC interview he recalled the hunt for survivors after the apocalyptic firestorm. In one incident, it took his team seven hours to get into a 1,000-person air-raid shelter in the Altstadt. Once inside, they found no survivors or corpses: just a green-brown liquid with bones sticking out of it. The cowering people had all melted."
Only about 7% of Germans were Nazis. Yet as is almost always the case during war in the 20th century. It is the civilians who suffer the most. And the civilians from either side are indeed the victims.
Our troops. The ones who had entered and or fought their way from North Africa, through Sicily, Italy, France and into Germany and all other points in between often found of all the places they had been and lands they had fought in. In the end the one people they found they had the most in common with. Were the German people
I thought it would be interesting to see and hear of the German civilian experience. Not as a way to glorify or justify the Nazis. But just to hear the experience from their side.
Dresden is where a lot of Germans, civilian and military, went because it was away from the war they started. I have no problem with the people who started the war suffering.
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: FLOOB on January 26, 2016, 11:51:50 PM
For example Band of Brothers "Speirs" not only really did shoot those prisoners, but also two of his own Sergeants under his own command.
Source? He executed a squad leader for disobeying a direct order in combat as a good officer should. The squad leader was attempting to take his squad into a friendly arty barrage, repeatedly disregarding LT Speirs order to hold. As far as I know the rest has never been anything more then allegation and rumor.
Only 7% of germans were nazi party members, the rest were just following orders right? The truth is that the other branches of the german military murdered more than the SS did.
Don't be dumb enough to buy into the apologists propaganda.
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: FLOOB on January 27, 2016, 12:08:26 AM
I didnt see a single thing in the first 5 minutes of the film that even remotely resembled anything as being "pro nazi"
LOL
"But then things changed dramatically. Soon after the national socialists were elected the german economy sprang into life" Coupled with video of a swastika flag being hoisted with an upbeat musical score.
I also like how they twisted the allies rebuilding of post-war Germany into "spiteful evil hatred". Good one.
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: DREDIOCK on January 27, 2016, 07:00:19 AM
"But then things changed dramatically. Soon after the national socialists were elected the german economy sprang into life" Coupled with video of a swastika flag being hoisted with an upbeat musical score.
I also like how they twisted the allies rebuilding of post-war Germany into "spiteful evil hatred". Good one.
And exactly what was inaccurate about that statement? I didnt see that as being pro nazi as much as it was simply pro fact. I still havent watched all of it so I cant comment on the post war part of it
And again. I didnt put the link up to support Germany as much as to take a look from a different perspective then that of the victors, who typically also write history with their own spin and propaganda painting themselves as the pure in heart and action shining knight on the white horse which is never the true case either
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: DREDIOCK on January 27, 2016, 07:18:56 AM
Source? He executed a squad leader for disobeying a direct order in combat as a good officer should. The squad leader was attempting to take his squad into a friendly arty barrage, repeatedly disregarding LT Speirs order to hold. As far as I know the rest has never been anything more then allegation and rumor.
Only 7% of germans were nazi party members, the rest were just following orders right? The truth is that the other branches of the german military murdered more than the SS did.
Don't be dumb enough to buy into the apologists propaganda.
An interview with Private Art DiMarzio, published on YouTube in 2012, describes how he, Speirs and a sergeant from his Dog Company platoon became lost and disorientated as a result of being landed away from their intended drop zone – before encountering three German soldiers. With no means of managing the prisoners and needing to reach their military objective, Speirs gave the order to shoot them. According to fellow Dog Company member, Art DiMarzio, each man shot a prisoner.5 A few hours later four more German soldiers were encountered and this time Speirs shot all of them himself.
Winters assessed Speirs as being one of the finest combat officers in the battalion. He wrote in his memoirs that Speirs had worked hard to earn a reputation as a killer and had often killed for shock value.[7] Winters stated that Speirs was alleged on one occasion to have killed six German prisoners of war with a Thompson submachinegun and that the battalion leadership must have been aware of the allegations, but chose to ignore the charges because of the pressing need to retain qualified combat leaders. Winters concluded that in today's army, Speirs would have been court-martialed and charged with atrocities, but at the time officers like Speirs were too valuable because they were not afraid to engage the enemy.
I only use those accounts because they are the ones people most know about. But this was far from an uncommon occurrence.
If you remember the sequence in Band of Brothers where Winters assigns a soldier to bring prisoners back to the rear but only lets him take one bullet to guard them with. This is because that soldier was known for not bringing prisoners to the rear and shooting them en route instead.
Just because we were "the good guys" does not mean our guys didnt do terrible things
I've argued in favor of total war such as is described here for our current problems. But usually I am met with "We dont do that" Well...yea we do.
Im not dumb enough to buy into the apologists propaganda any more then I am dumb enough to buy into our own
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: Delirium on January 27, 2016, 09:39:34 AM
Drediock, if you can find the time, please read the below.
The original book 'Hellstorm' was written by Thomas Goodrich. If you read even the very first page you can easily see this man is a white supremacist. Here is his webpage in case you don't believe me.
http://thomasgoodrich.com/
The movie, while under the guise of a documentary, was basically the book Goodrich write made into film. This project was directed by Kyle Hunt. Here is his webpage.
http://renegadetribune.com/
In fact, he is so well recorded and documented on so many sites across the web (look around) that his beliefs are clear to all. Looking further, I'm sorry to report he lives in Massachusetts, it makes the entire New England look bad.
The only reason I did the 5 minute leg work to research this garbage is because I'm hoping you are reasonable, Drediock. I sincerely hope you can stop attempting to defend this as an objective documentary. I agree that history is written by the victors to a large extent, but these two men are racist, delusional and dangerously paranoid.
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: Randy1 on January 27, 2016, 10:40:16 AM
I wonder what it was like to be an average person in Germany during those prewar and early war days? The average person must have seen some value in Hitler. Just pure improved economy based support by the average German citizen?
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: zack1234 on January 27, 2016, 11:39:23 AM
The average German thought he was awesome :)
After they lost for a second time they did not think he was awesome :)
They had no one to blame but themselves and they know it :old:
Dresden?
Germany invented area bombing :old:
They got off lightly considering they were savages :old:
Anyone who has a German car is a clowns pocket.
Japan on the other hand was harshley treated by the Allies and their story needs to be told.
Pearl Harbour and two Japanese city's are wiped out! :old:
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: Hetzer7 on January 27, 2016, 12:01:16 PM
Zack nailed it.
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: Skuzzy on January 27, 2016, 12:10:14 PM
In one incident, it took his team seven hours to get into a 1,000-person air-raid shelter in the Altstadt. Once inside, they found no survivors or corpses: just a green-brown liquid with bones sticking out of it. The cowering people had all melted."[/b]
Sorry but I need to pull the BS meter out on this one, and it is pegging out at maximum. People don't melt. And we ain't green.
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: Arlo on January 27, 2016, 02:48:32 PM
Drediock, if you can find the time, please read the below.
The original book 'Hellstorm' was written by Thomas Goodrich. If you read even the very first page you can easily see this man is a white supremacist. Here is his webpage in case you don't believe me.
http://thomasgoodrich.com/
The movie, while under the guise of a documentary, was basically the book Goodrich write made into film. This project was directed by Kyle Hunt. Here is his webpage.
http://renegadetribune.com/
In fact, he is so well recorded and documented on so many sites across the web (look around) that his beliefs are clear to all. Looking further, I'm sorry to report he lives in Massachusetts, it makes the entire New England look bad.
The only reason I did the 5 minute leg work to research this garbage is because I'm hoping you are reasonable, Drediock. I sincerely hope you can stop attempting to defend this as an objective documentary. I agree that history is written by the victors to a large extent, but these two men are racist, delusional and dangerously paranoid.
Im not nor have I at any point claimed it was objective. But simply another viewpoint
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: DREDIOCK on January 27, 2016, 06:16:14 PM
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: MADe on January 29, 2016, 05:21:23 PM
the Germans, the Confederates, the extreme Islamists........
for what ever reason, those that try and force their views, ideals, morality on others violently always bleeping whine and cry foul after they get their tulips kicked from the fight that they started in the first place.
This is what I like about America, we ain't perfect, we've diddlyed up, but if our leadership ever tried the BS that the NAZI's got away with, to a family Americans would say screw you. Were a little slow off the blocks, but the turtle won the race! :salute
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on January 29, 2016, 05:25:29 PM
It's relevant to the fact that he'da had to save up extra long to give Eva a good rogering.
He was also a vegetarian (paleoanthros tell us that higher fat consumption associated with a semi-carnivorous diet was essential to the development of the human brain) -and had bad gingivitis. I guess he didn't like to floss.
I always like to tell the kiddiwinks that if they don't floss properly, they're going to be foul breathed devolved-brain one-nuts who seek a glass of juice, or something sort of homophonic to that last bit.
Still, a nation completely exhausted with soft-left easy money policies, courted by a nationalist populist... Hmmm... You've got to enjoy something timely about that.
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: guncrasher on January 29, 2016, 09:46:35 PM
the Germans, the Confederates, the extreme Islamists........
for what ever reason, those that try and force their views, ideals, morality on others violently always bleeping whine and cry foul after they get their tulips kicked from the fight that they started in the first place.
This is what I like about America, we ain't perfect, we've diddlyed up, but if our leadership ever tried the BS that the NAZI's got away with, to a family Americans would say screw you. Were a little slow off the blocks, but the turtle won the race! :salute
ask the japanese americans in the 40's how it went.
semp
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: zack1234 on January 30, 2016, 02:16:27 AM
I am japanese :old:
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: DREDIOCK on January 31, 2016, 09:21:14 AM
the Germans, the Confederates, the extreme Islamists........
This is what I like about America, we ain't perfect, we've diddlyed up, but if our leadership ever tried the BS that the NAZI's got away with, to a family Americans would say screw you. :salute
Some remainders of some native Americans might disagree with you on that
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: wil3ur on January 31, 2016, 01:43:21 PM
You want a great war movie, check out a Finnish flick called "The Winter War". Good perspective on the attempted Soviet invasion and one of the greatest defenses of a country ever. It has subtitles, so don't worry if you don't speak Finn. :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtQPyMymFJo
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: WaffenVW on January 31, 2016, 02:08:04 PM
Were are the subtitles?
Title: Re: WWII From the Germans Point of View
Post by: wil3ur on January 31, 2016, 02:17:33 PM
Dunno, said it had them... My buddy's copy on dvd had subtitles. :p