Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: DubiousKB on January 29, 2016, 09:30:36 AM
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I feel like I'm missing something critical in the 88m flak field guns...
(this is going to sound very narcassistic....)
But I was in TT last night and had just popped a couple radars on the V-bases with my N1k. I was heading back to base at 4-6k altitude, juking and jiving from auto-ack not getting hit... Then all of a sudden, i hear, boom, boom, start looking around to see which base the fire is coming from, but before i could even ascertain it's origin, boom, and on the next boom, I go boom...
Due to how i was flying I was completely shocked that the 88 got me.... Wallowing in my own self-pity, i pm'd the guy asking "how'd you do that!?"... to which i got no reply... I saluted him and proceeded to whine a bit on 200. I checked the gents stats in hopes of finding a million and one kills from field guns, and found the stats, less than impressive...
So the question remains, am i simply missing something on the 88m field guns, why can i never seem to get close & kills!? Any tips would be helpful
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KB, give me a day or two, look for an email.
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If you can run the beta, get the current beta 3. Look for my post in that forum titled: Copperhd.
Download the offline gunnery training terrain. On the island I've put in place three 88mm positions so you can practice against the drones out to about 7k. Don't miss the rest of the island's features.
1. - Two tank firing ranges to learn your optics relationship to tanks at different ranges. One 4 miles long with tank hulks all over it. The second 4000yds long with tank hulks starting at 1000yds then every 500yds after that to 4000yds. Each range has a 17lb and an 88 on the firing range.
2. - A wirbel nest spawn to the top of a mesa set 400ft below the path of the drones. There are also 37mm and an 88 up there.
3. - An 88mm on a peak over the 4 mile tank range to get you a 7k shot at the drones. And one down in a big canyon with a 7k shot at another set of drones.
4. - Fighters have a 7k air spawn so you don't have to waste time climbing to the drones or practicing jabo. There is a 12k spawn over several CV groups to practice jaboing them.
5. - Bombers have a 15k spawn to get into level bombing mode quickly. There is a nice target for them past the 4 mile line at the end of the tank range. Then there is a 12k spawn to practice level bombing of a rapidly turning and zigzagging CV group. To complete that, there are several 1250ft spawns near the CV groups for torpedo bombing or the B-25H. There is an updated 4000yd gunsight for the B-25H in the package.
6. - There are two ports controlling three CV groups. The zigzag group and two that steam at and past each other, then reverse direction. I set that up for ship to ship gunnery or practicing with a torpedo bomber. From those parts are 8 PT spawn to get you within easy practice distance of the CV groups.
7. - There are two tank Hogan Alleys on the map. There are tank hulks everywhere to help you learn to see tanks under the new trees from SpeedTree in the AH3 terrains.
It is not a bug that AP rounds will only make a nice explosion against the tank hulks. It is a Hitech program feature. Bombs and HE ammo will make them go boom because I had to identify their object as a structure. About 3 88HE or a single 500lb should do it.
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excellent, ty gents!
... it appears I just ain't that good in'em.... :old:
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Keep in mind too, the roll of the dice fits flying through any ack. Sooner or latter you are going to roll snake eyes.
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I'm thinking my astonishment at the situation was mirrored by the guy who shot me with surprise and excitment...
Just a darn tootin' lucky shot.... :mad: Gotta be good to be lucky I suppose....
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There are some folks out there getting REALLY good with the 88 I have found. Up until recently, I thought "isn't that cute" when the 88's started flying. Now, I'm thinking, "damn, I gotta kill that thing..."...
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I am fairly good in the 88 but anything over 1.5k and luck has to start figuring into the shot. That is say you have to have the path and the distance to the fighter coincide after 2 or 3 secconds. I can make a fighter dance at 5-6k but the chance of a kill is low.
I did see a guy waste a full formation of B17s at better than 5k out with one shot.
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All it takes is practice. Collect enough 88 data in the offline arenas, and you can make up a small targeting overlay like I did. I put it on the monitor screen, and it tells me where the round will burst at a certain distance and gun elevation. Crossing shots are a little harder, but certainly not impossible. It just takes practice. I will typically start sending rounds out to an incoming target at 7k. My personal record is 8k.
And the whole trick to the overlay method is using the proper zoom. It took some time, but I figured that out, too. If I knew how to record a clear video of the screen (not screen capture, because that wouldn't show the overlay), I'd post one.
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At least now in the beta, and then in AH3, you will have my offline gunnery training terrain with 3 88's that let you shoot at drones out to 7k. On the other hand having three dimensions to set the target will allow you to range the target, then setup any kind of overlay you want for azimuth. Lead timing and progressively resetting your fuse timer takes live experience. Nothing like having 6 live moving bombers to shoot at over and over and over..... :joystick:.....:O
Oh!! And you get to learn how to range with the 88 AP and 17lb AP round out to 4miles against tanks.
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Very interesting... Now to practice and get a sharpie for my monitor! :devil
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With an overlay and practice I'd imagine one could get quite good at it. The other day I had popped into the 88 just to see what was coming into a field, then realized it was coming in so nice and straight I thought I'd take a shot at it. I walked them in and hit one of them at about 4500 yards. Don't know who was more surprised, me or the guy I hit.
Question though- wouldn't the amount of perceived drop change depending on the elevation angle of the gun? I've only ever shot with it by walking it on.
Wiley.
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Elevation changes and how much time you decrease or add to the fuse. Those skills are the heart of hitting planes. Rule of thumb, I zoom until the tip of the barrel is just into the screen. Then I know 1\3 down between the bottom of the white ring and the tip of the barrel is the drop for 7000yds(4 miles). Discovered that the other day testing the 88 on my gunnery terrain on the 4 mile firing line.
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Not quite what I mean. If you shoot it horizontally, from your POV you will see the round drop a certain amount of distance on your screen, correct? If you were shooting it exactly vertically, it would still be decelerated the same amount by gravity, but from your POV it would still be on the same line of sight, right? On your screen the puff would be right on the gunsight.
Wiley.
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KB, I just emailed you the range card. Contact me in game so I can explain it.
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And then I rotated around and tried it on the drones 7k away. I built an offline terrain to test these arguments.
There will be no aimbot type of aiming solution. You will still be constrained by your judgment of setting the fuse against the time to travel for a moving target. Azimuth out to 7k in most standard AH scenario of defending a base will not change much unless you are shooting above 45 degrees over head. It is kind of interesting we were given only a single 88 for flack duty when even the Germans used battery's because hitting moving aircraft with a single 88 was a fools bet. Though it takes care of the constant wish over the years for a more powerful air base defense against tanks.
Clear overlays or even a knotted string with a small weight require you to set your zoom to the same place every time. That takes care of only azimuth for range. You still have to have the touch for setting the fuse.
Then there is lead, no two fighters are going by at the same speed but, most bomber guys will either run balls to wall or follow the current wisdom on speed for calibration to perform pinpoint drops. In that case, a clear overlay big enough to have rings based on the 88mm time to travel to distance say in 1000yds increments combined with a speed index closing and leaving. Suddenly you are recreating the 88mm analog aiming director on a clear overlay.
There is a free pdf on the internet of the manual created by the ARMY for operating the 88. It has all the tables in the back of the manual along with illustrations for the analog director data face.
Is all of this devolving down to hoping some genius will simply post you a picture of what to draw on the overlay?
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I know people are going to ask, so here is a shot of the card.
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy2/dtoakridge/IMG_0224_zps1jifuqq2.jpg)
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thx jinx, i got the email. :rock
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I was wondering what someone's variation on page 125 (Sterioscopic Director 36) and the ballistics tables in the back of the manual would end up looking like. The zoom to match diameter looks like the tip of your barrel just shows on the left side of the screen.
https://ia802705.us.archive.org/31/items/TmE9-369a/TmE9-369a.pdf
TME9-369A is the US ARMY manual for operating the 88.
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There's one big caveat with my card. It was developed off of my monitor, which is an LG E2242. If you cut out the card from a printed sheet of paper along the rectangle, once you place the card on the screen (bottom edge resting on the bottom edge of the screen), the center of the reticle on the paper should line up with where the center dot shows up on an LG E2242 with the game running. If it doesn't, then everything will have to be scaled.
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy2/dtoakridge/3d0ed275-de86-4256-b09d-719fc444ec58_zpssku97fmk.jpg)
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KB, I just emailed you the range card. Contact me in game so I can explain it.
Hey, Jinx. Do you mind emailing me this info as well? I PM'd you my email.
<S>
Kingpin
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And that is why 8thJinx is so good in all of the things he does. Pure dedication to the art of shoot making.
:salute
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And that is why 8thJinx is so good in all of the things he does. Pure dedication to the art of shoot making.
:salute
Shootegery.
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That answers my question about how you addressed the zoom setting and elevation angle of the gun when putting an overlay together. Nicely done.
Even WITH an overlay, it still requires practice to determine the azimuth lead required for the direction and speed of travel of the target, along with the timing required to adjust the range so your round will arrive when the target reaches that distance.
Also good of you to clarify that it is calibrated to your specific monitor and FOV settings, so this isn't a quick fix for most people.
Thanks for sharing info on the art of 88 "stootegery". ;)
<S>
Kingpin
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I think you can scale everything off of the distance from the bottom of your screen to center of reticle in-game. So if your distance is 6 inches, then the scaling is 6/5.3125=1.1294. Then set your printer scaling to 1.1294, and it should print to your scale. I think.
As for how it works, yes, you do need more than just an overlay. This overlay only gets you close. It only shows where the round will burst. You need practice and experience in figuring the flight path and lead.
On another note, I used the overlay on the tank island map. Even though you can't see the corner airfields from the gun emplacements at the outermost vehicle fields, I was able to hit the runway and radar with AP rounds at 8,650 yards. I knew I was getting hits because you can see a sprite when a round hits a structure or vehicle, even at distance. GYK or KrisKros (can't remember) was AFK on a hill in a jeep halfway to the base, so hopped in a gun and got some practice in. I was able load the film and see what the sprites were from. I was hitting the bomber hangar from almost 5 miles away.