Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: caldera on January 30, 2016, 05:00:18 PM
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Since the three way war often spends much of the time being a 2v1 war, can't we at least try a 2 sided war in the MA?
Make two new countries and try it out. Convert some of the smaller scenario maps to use in the MA. Can it get any worse than this?
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/2v1.jpg~original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/2v1.jpg.html)
One side's HQ is surrounded by enema bases. Not to mention this map is 4 times the size needed for these numbers.
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This what happens when a bunch grown arse men reenact "lord of the Flies" and it's the rooks turn to be the fat kid. In all seriousness, if I were loged on right I'd Probably jump sides give and give you all a hand.
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seems to be the nature of the game lately..... 2 chess pieces gang 1..... and I would hope most of us think it sux.
Most of us I hope would kick our kid's butt for bullying and that's what this is.
I hope HT sees the problem as well and has some ideas on how to encourage a 3-way fight.
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So how do suggest screwing AH2 players by forcing them to either side? Remember, AH3 has many types of arena being tested. Or do you have no faith in AH3?
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I'm cool with Bish vs Knits/Rooks. No change there then eh. :D
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Since the three way war often spends much of the time being a 2v1 war, can't we at least try a 2 sided war in the MA?
Make two new countries and try it out. Convert some of the smaller scenario maps to use in the MA. Can it get any worse than this?
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/2v1.jpg~original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/2v1.jpg.html)
One side's HQ is surrounded by enema bases. Not to mention this map is 4 times the size needed for these numbers.
+1
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kings vs queens? :D
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Joker and his crew thought it was a good plan to hang around the Rook HQ with his CV just off shore keeping the dar down and killing goons that tried to resupply. Mean while the Knights grabbed enough bases that the bish no longer had a shot at winning the map. Later that evening after MANY supply runs to get ammo back up so that we could hit the base that owned the CV. Once the Rooks took the base back and its CV it was a march down the coast taking base after base back.
So were they strategic and working to win the map, or were they being "dick's" keeping HQ down looking for easy kills on goons? :headscratch:
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Joker and his crew thought it was a good plan to hang around the Rook HQ with his CV just off shore keeping the dar down and killing goons that tried to resupply. Mean while the Knights grabbed enough bases that the bish no longer had a shot at winning the map. Later that evening after MANY supply runs to get ammo back up so that we could hit the base that owned the CV. Once the Rooks took the base back and its CV it was a march down the coast taking base after base back.
So were they strategic and working to win the map, or were they being "dick's" keeping HQ down looking for easy kills on goons? :headscratch:
The answer is self-evident.
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Joker and his crew thought it was a good plan to hang around the Rook HQ with his CV just off shore keeping the dar down and killing goons that tried to resupply. Mean while the Knights grabbed enough bases that the bish no longer had a shot at winning the map. Later that evening after MANY supply runs to get ammo back up so that we could hit the base that owned the CV. Once the Rooks took the base back and its CV it was a march down the coast taking base after base back.
So were they strategic and working to win the map, or were they being "dick's" keeping HQ down looking for easy kills on goons? :headscratch:
Those damn Jokers again huh. It seems that they represent a personal affront to your definition of ethics. :uhoh
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Those damn Jokers again huh. It seems that they represent a personal affront to your definition of ethics. :uhoh
ethics? hardly, poor game play you bet. They spent a lot of time keeping the HQ down and in the end instead of winning the map, which everyone says is the point of the game, their self serving tactics cost their team a win.
When it comes to lame game play like dropping HQ, flying off the map while you grab alt in B29 and such it hurts the game more than helps it. The more negative comments that come out the less likely people are going to try it out. Sure everyone could just shut up and only post nice things and sweep the crap under the rug :rolleyes: but I think fixing the issues to steer players away from lame game play would help a lot more. Then maybe we would be reading more after action reports where everyone had fun instead complaining about poor gamesmanship.
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ethics? hardly, poor game play you bet. They spent a lot of time keeping the HQ down and in the end instead of winning the map, which everyone says is the point of the game, their self serving tactics cost their team a win.
When it comes to lame game play like dropping HQ, flying off the map while you grab alt in B29 and such it hurts the game more than helps it. The more negative comments that come out the less likely people are going to try it out. Sure everyone could just shut up and only post nice things and sweep the crap under the rug :rolleyes: but I think fixing the issues to steer players away from lame game play would help a lot more. Then maybe we would be reading more after action reports where everyone had fun instead complaining about poor gamesmanship.
Sorry to hear you think the Jokers are at the root of these issues. I am a Joker and for the record I can't recall the last time we attacked anyone's HQ. We do attack strats as all Countries do..... it does facilitate, as you say, "winning the map".
As to "fixing the issues to steer players away from lame game play", I suggest its HT's purview to define what players can and cannot do. You might want to respect other peoples right to play without defining their actions in a self-serving way as "poor gamesmanship".
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Use a small to medium sized map with two sides could be a good way to re-kindle the fire that the game had ten years ago. I remember the days of 50 vs 50 aircraft in the air fur-balling and mixing it up.
Three sides on a small map may be good as well.
With smaller maps, we may experience a faster map rotation since it doesn't take as long to travel between bases along with a smaller number of them. With this in mind, it might be good to have more map varieties to keep the game-play fresh and engaging.
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See Rules #4, #6
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See Rules #4, #6
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I don't think we'll ever see a 2 sided MA in AH. 2 sides just doesn't work, Kesmai figured that out when they made Air Warrior. HiTech tried to mix things up with a 4 sided war in WB and that led him to the conclusion that a 3 sided war was best.
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I don't think we'll ever see a 2 sided MA in AH. 2 sides just doesn't work, Kesmai figured that out when they made Air Warrior. HiTech tried to mix things up with a 4 sided war in WB and that led him to the conclusion that a 3 sided war was best.
Was that before ENY or a similar device to keep the sides even?
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Was that before ENY or a similar device to keep the sides even?
If you search for HiTech's posts on the subject, you'll see that he stated that there will not be two sides was made before and after ENY was implemented.
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Well if the discussion is about things that ruin the game, let's not forget the recent craze of 2 chess pieces making piece to pile on 1.
As Bruv said above, he's fine with knit-rooks vs Bish . I don't care for it whether giving the gang or taking it.... and it will likely soon cause some departures from the AH community.
in my time zone Bish mainly (not all the time) have a 20-30% player advantage (ENY 20+) and have steam rolled plenty of maps. If I played when you did and Bish were down and out bums then of course I would be flying with you. The game is 24/7 all teams give and take.
It would be cool to see a 2 side map for one 24 hour period a week where teams can have ample numbers to sustain BIG attack / defence situations and roll some larger missions and get more defenders out to intercept in time before it becomes a vulch fest. These types of situations are what make the game great with combat for buff/fighter and gver alike. Not a sparse map with very little going on where a handful of guys can setup a vulch against 1/2 defenders and milk it for all it's worth.
This would work off hours because of the low numbers but during peak prime time it could get to much pretty quickly.
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I don't think we'll ever see a 2 sided MA in AH. 2 sides just doesn't work, Kesmai figured that out when they made Air Warrior. HiTech tried to mix things up with a 4 sided war in WB and that led him to the conclusion that a 3 sided war was best.
Two sides in Warbirds was a blast. Worked great.
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war birds is gone.
semp
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war birds is gone.
semp
Yeah. So is Chance-Vought.
The two-sided war was never the problem with Warbirds.
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Yeah. So is Chance-Vought.
The two-sided war was never the problem with Warbirds.
then what was the reason why people stopped playing?
semp
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Yeah. So is Chance-Vought.
The two-sided war was never the problem with Warbirds.
WB experienced some of its largest exodus of players when the game went to a rolling plane set and AvA set up.
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Just to clarify, I want the exact same MA rules.
The only differences would be one less team and smaller maps. Not asking for rolling plane sets or AVA matchups.
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then what was the reason why people stopped playing?
semp
Same reason it is happening here with *THREE* sides.
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WB experienced some of its largest exodus of players when the game went to a rolling plane set and AvA set up.
Not true.
The MA was still available. People *CHOSE* the AvA and it was a blast. People eventually gravitated back to the MA. That's when I left and came here the first time.
The icon changes are what killed the game--that and Wild Bill's oversized ego and heavy-handed dealings with the player base through his surrogates.
I loved the RPS. I may be one of the few, but I thought it was exceptional. YMMV.
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This last Monday night in the AvA was setup for OddCAF's Monday night Midwar furball. Two sides with the usual one side good rides other side garbage rides. Good side call went out and the darbar reflected it for awhile. So the CM gave both sides the same plane set. Fun petered out pretty quickly when everything was equalized and the garbage men started doing the spanking in good side rides.
You always have a large percentage of the MA who do not want to play with even odds and a very tiny percentage who like going to a 12 on 1 gang fight with a tooth pick against baseball bats. A two side night would end up with a few guys who like tooth picks versus a hoard with meat seeking nukes. If side balancing of any kind was imposed, people would log for the night and simply avoid Tuesday nights.
If you have to impose on the MA what players choose to do, they will leave until the MA goes back to freedom of choice. And if you were given your own arena with this wish setup in it, no one would show up. So this wish requires the power of Hitech to force players to do what they are not paying for. That could cost him customer good will and money, in the end what will the business owner vote for?
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This last Monday night in the AvA was setup for OddCAF's Monday night Midwar furball. Two sides with the usual one side good rides other side garbage rides.
Pretty sad if you can't find an Axis ride that competes with any Allied ride, when all planes are enabled. "Garbage rides" indeed.
- oldman
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That doesn't change the reality of human nature and how the bills get paid, or how a none exclusive group of drop in players will choose to fight. Or how our community has helped send bill payers to the competitors over the years visa peer shaming to how they choose to spend the time they paid for.
Which gets back to the only way to have a two side Tuesday night is with the full weight of Hitech programmed coercion which is not what the customers are paying for as a main arena. With AH3 they will accept it with AI missions and the exclusive groups will have a 1v1 system controlled dueling arena. And the AvA will still be there for that group of exclusive enthusiasts.
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if you want a 2 country war, ask the guys in the ava and I am pretty sure they will accommodate you. then if numbers jump up that will be proof that a 2 country war could be tried in the MA.
semp
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if you want a 2 country war, ask the guys in the ava and I am pretty sure they will accommodate you. then if numbers jump up that will be proof that a 2 country war could be tried in the MA.
semp
Not exactly.
Most people reflexively go to the MA.
Also, a two-sided MA is a totally different animal compared to a AvA. They can't be compared.
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How do you guys see a 2 sided war playing out? My money would be on hordelings all going to one side and rolling bases for eternity.
Wiley.
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How do you guys see a 2 sided war playing out? My money would be on hordelings all going to one side and rolling bases for eternity.
Wiley.
We never had that problem in Warbirds.
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How do you guys see a 2 sided war playing out? My money would be on hordelings all going to one side and rolling bases for eternity.
Wiley.
Then me and others would viciously hunt them down :)
As of late horde hunting has become a hobby instead of being apart of one
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We never had that problem in Warbirds.
Yeah. We didn't have hordes like we do here in WB either. It is almost as though the communities are different.
Wiley.
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Yeah. We didn't have hordes like we do here in WB either. It is almost as though the communities are different.
Wiley.
Well stated. I agree.
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Not exactly.
Most people reflexively go to the MA.
Also, a two-sided MA is a totally different animal compared to a AvA. They can't be compared.
ok I'll play along. just like hitech used to have the pink arena.
we'll ask hitech to change the name of ava to 2 country arena. then we'll ask hitech to change the MA name to pink arena.
take a wild guess which arena is gonna have the most players. but dont take my word for it, ask hitech. he already tried the 2 country arena.
semp
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ok I'll play along. just like hitech used to have the pink arena.
we'll ask hitech to change the name of ava to 2 country arena. then we'll ask hitech to change the MA name to pink arena.
take a wild guess which arena is gonna have the most players. but dont take my word for it, ask hitech. he already tried the 2 country arena.
semp
Logic = FAIL
HINT: The name is irrelevant to what makes them different even with the same number of countries.
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Logic = FAIL
HINT: The name is irrelevant to what makes them different even with the same number of countries.
so the fact that two countries have been tried it in here and it failed has nothing to do with logic?
semp
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so the fact that two countries have been tried it in here and it failed has nothing to do with logic?
semp
Times change. As others have noted we have in effect a two-sided MA now (just more unbalanced than a true two-sided MA would be).
In any event...
If you can't follow the bouncing ball I am done parlaying with you, sir.
A two-sided AvA is not the same thing as a two-sided MA.
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a 2 sided ava with changes to plane set as you wish is not the same as a 2 sided ma.
well how can I argue against your bouncing ball. final question for you is 2+2=4 every time?
semp
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a 2 sided ava with changes to plane set as you wish is not the same as a 2 sided ma.
well how can I argue against your bouncing ball. final question for you is 2+2=4 every time?
semp
:O Uh....wut? :headscratch:
Changes to plane set as in RPS?
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Well they are running Monday Night Madness in there with even plane sets. As the MNM has a decent following we will see if 2 sides work as the numbers climb.
Personally, I think as a furballing setup 2 sides is ok, but when it comes to a sandbox war type play 3 is better. Sure you get one side singled out, but if it is only 2 sides your either the hammer or the nail. With 3 side there are more options IF you choose to use them.
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Well they are running Monday Night Madness in there with even plane sets. As the MNM has a decent following we will see if 2 sides work as the numbers climb.
Personally, I think as a furballing setup 2 sides is ok, but when it comes to a sandbox war type play 3 is better. Sure you get one side singled out, but if it is only 2 sides your either the hammer or the nail. With 3 side there are more options IF you choose to use them.
I was actually thinking about it a bit because I was thinking along the lines of your second paragraph. Assuming the same size map/number of bases/number of players and somewhat even sides, what's stopping people on the side that's being attacked at the moment from moving to another part of the front to attack?
I still think it would wind up being one side rolling bases and the people who like it on the other doing nothing but defending. That's not terrible as long as the offensive side will actually stick around to fight it out for a base and doesn't start playing NOE whackamole, then it gets lame and boring.
Wiley.
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How do you guys see a 2 sided war playing out? My money would be on hordelings all going to one side and rolling bases for eternity.
Wiley.
ENY
I still think it would wind up being one side rolling bases and the people who like it on the other doing nothing but defending. That's not terrible as long as the offensive side will actually stick around to fight it out for a base and doesn't start playing NOE whackamole, then it gets lame and boring.
So you mean just like it is now, except 1v1 instead of 2v1.
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ENY
Yes, because that slows down the strike hordes so incredibly effectively now.
So you mean just like it is now, except 1v1 instead of 2v1.
If that was the case, why bother making a change?
Wiley.
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Yes, because that slows down the strike hordes so incredibly effectively now.
If that was the case, why bother making a change?
Wiley.
A typical breakdown of daytime LW Arena numbers:
Country A - 47
Country B - 34
Country C - 25
More often than not, both the higher numbered Countries will go after the easier opponent. Which ends up as:
A+B, with 81 players versus C, with 25 players. Team C gets crushed until A+B have such a huge number of C fields, that they eventually have to fight each other to reset the map.
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Now with just 2 teams:
Team A - 81
Team B - 25
This imbalance will trigger a huge ENY penalty and people will have to switch sides or fly low end rides. What will happen is the numbers will eventually balance out, just as they do now. The big difference being, the outnumbered country can not be nearly as outnumbered as it can be with 3 sides.
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For those whines about country or ez-mode plane loyalty:
#1 It will be the only day of the week in which you will be forced to fight a reasonably fair fight.
#2 HTC already limits what you can fly with ENY and perk planes. What about the poor folks that only want to fly the 262 every sortie and also never switch sides?
#4 By switching sides, people will fly with people that they hated and find out they're not so bad.
#5 People will get to fight their friends and find out some of them do the exact same things that they whine about when the bish/nit/rook guys do it to them.
#6 If it doesn't work. It can easily be restored back to 2v1 again.
ps. the teams can be called Team Ginger and Team Mary Ann
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A typical breakdown of daytime LW Arena numbers:
Country A - 47
Country B - 34
Country C - 25
More often than not, both the higher numbered Countries will go after the easier opponent. Which ends up as:
A+B, with 81 players versus C, with 25 players. Team C gets crushed until A+B have such a huge number of C fields, that they eventually have to fight each other to reset the map.
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Now with just 2 teams:
Team A - 81
Team B - 25
This imbalance will trigger a huge ENY penalty and people will have to switch sides or fly low end rides. What will happen is the numbers will eventually balance out, just as they do now. The big difference being, the outnumbered country can not be nearly as outnumbered as it can be with 3 sides.
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For those whines about country or ez-mode plane loyalty:
#1 It will be the only day of the week in which you will be forced to fight a reasonably fair fight.
#2 HTC already limits what you can fly with ENY and perk planes. What about the poor folks that only want to fly the 262 every sortie and also never switch sides?
#4 By switching sides, people will fly with people that they hated and find out they're not so bad.
#5 People will get to fight their friends and find out some of them do the exact same things that they whine about when the bish/nit/rook guys do it to them.
#6 If it doesn't work. It can easily be restored back to 2v1 again.
ps. the teams can be called Team Ginger and Team Mary Ann
Beautiful analysis. :salute