General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Meatwad on February 01, 2016, 10:18:02 PM
Title: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: Meatwad on February 01, 2016, 10:18:02 PM
This is sad, he owned a heating and cooling business and gave honest rates, and was the go-to guy when our furnace or AC went out. Always seen him and one of his friends fly over our house every weekend :cry
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: Brooke on February 01, 2016, 11:55:44 PM
Poor guy. I wonder what happened.
I always had a desire to have a small personal flying craft or ultralight, but it just seems like they aren't that safe.
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: pembquist on February 02, 2016, 01:28:16 PM
Brooke here is a comparison I like, sourced from the bowels of the internet, comparing flying to motorcycles:
Daytime flight over non-mountainous terrain: Like riding a motorcycle with full gear.
Daytime flight in instrument conditions or over mountainous terrain in clear air: Like riding a motorcycle with only a helmet.
Night flight over non-mountainous terrain: Like riding a motorcycle with a helmet but no headlight.
Night flight in instrument conditions over non-mountainous terrain: Like riding a motorcycle at night with a headlight but no helmet.
Night flight in instrument conditions over mountainous terrain: Like riding a motorcycle at night with no helmet, in the rain, over the speed limit.
Any flight in which the pilot says 'watch this sh*t' - Like riding a motorcycle at night with no helmet, over the speed limit, while drunk.
And here is a link to a safety video from John and Martha king, a very pertinent part starts at about 13:15: www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHKbeT-EZHM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHKbeT-EZHM)
I think it is safe to generalize that small autogyros and ultralights can be operated with reasonable risk the problem is that it isn't as easy to do that as it is with other kinds of GA flying machines, and it might mean limiting yourself to flying only over open fields on calm days. Faulty design or construction can also crop up in the fleet but there are no doubt designs with better track records so for a serious study of risk you would probably have to limit yourself to a single design with a history in order to come to any kind of useful conclusion as to what the risk factors are.
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: fracca on February 02, 2016, 01:38:38 PM
Always a shame when something goes wrong. I've been looking longingly at part 103 ultralights for the last couple of years, considering giving up the bikes and taking to the skies instead. Gyros are very very attractive to me, but I dont think I could get my wife to agree to anything without a ballistic parachute.
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: Serenity on February 02, 2016, 03:38:56 PM
Personally, I've flown in some of those trikes and ultralights... I did it to say I did. I would never want to repeat the process. Aviation in general isn't inherently dangerous, it's simply unforgiving. That being said, from my standpoint and experience, the ultralights and experimentals are restricted to flying over open wilderness for a very good reason.
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: rpm on February 02, 2016, 11:33:35 PM
A neighbor of mine was a professor at Texas Wesleyan. His wife was one of my teachers in High School. He had a gyrocopter and you would see him flying out by the lake from time to time. One day something went wrong...
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: WaffenVW on February 03, 2016, 12:44:24 AM
From what I've heard the main safety issue with microlights/ultralights is that they're mostly flown by inexperienced pilots. They're made for sporting/hobby purposes rather than utility, so it's not really surprising.
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: Serenity on February 03, 2016, 10:00:17 AM
From what I've heard the main safety issue with microlights/ultralights is that they're mostly flown by inexperienced pilots. They're made for sporting/hobby purposes rather than utility, so it's not really surprising.
While the pilots certainly ARE a factor, the engineering isn't exactly robust...
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: WaffenVW on February 03, 2016, 10:04:08 AM
These aircraft are breaking in midair?
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: earl1937 on February 03, 2016, 10:42:52 AM
Not necessarily a total airframe failure, but from my time in them, Trikes especially, you don't really have options for controls. If things require a big correction, you don't have the means.
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: DaveBB on February 03, 2016, 06:29:50 PM
I saw one of these flying around Panama City a few times. I thought to myself "That just doesn't look safe".
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: rpm on February 04, 2016, 01:38:13 AM
The Sunshine Clipper (http://www.theledger.com/article/20150424/NEWS/150429680) (http://airportjournals.com/wp-content/uploads/0805009_20.jpg)
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: WaffenVW on February 04, 2016, 04:01:27 AM
Yes, I would stay away from the swamp boat hang glider conversions, and the home built experimental flying fishing boat. Luckily there are better options for ultralights.
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: Serenity on February 04, 2016, 09:17:01 AM
Yes, I would stay away from the swamp boat hang glider conversions, and the home built experimental flying fishing boat. Luckily there are better options for ultralights.
I think that Risen crosses the line from Ultralight over to Light Sport...
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: WaffenVW on February 04, 2016, 08:14:48 PM
Regardless of what you think, it is classified as an ultralight.
http://www.sea-avio.com/
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: Serenity on February 04, 2016, 08:41:33 PM
Regardless of what you think, it is classified as an ultralight.
http://www.sea-avio.com/
Not by the FAA, it is.
103.1 Applicability.
This part prescribes rules governing the operation of ultralight vehicles in the United States. For the purposes of this part, an ultralight vehicle is a vehicle that:
(a) Is used or intended to be used for manned operation in the air by a single occupant; (b) Is used or intended to be used for recreation or sport purposes only; (c) Does not have any U.S. or foreign airworthiness certificate; and (d) If unpowered, weighs less than 155 pounds; or (e) If powered:
(1) Weighs less than 254 pounds empty weight, excluding floats and safety devices which are intended for deployment in a potentially catastrophic situation; (2) Has a fuel capacity not exceeding 5 U.S. gallons; (3) Is not capable of more than 55 knots calibrated airspeed at full power in level flight; and (4) Has a power-off stall speed which does not exceed 24 knots calibrated airspeed.
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: WaffenVW on February 09, 2016, 04:00:04 AM
Ok, my knowledge on the subject is obviously lacking.
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: pembquist on February 09, 2016, 11:25:32 AM
Unfortunately it is is easy to confuse ultralights with microlights with experimentals with light sport. A U.S. ultralight can be built out of lawn accessories (Lawn chairs and mowers,) and be perfectly legal, they are the model airplanes of general aviation, in fact I don't know if they are considered general aviation at all. The big draw back with ultralights, as far as I can see, is that it costs a lot to make a safe-ish one, (the dacron sails aint cheap nor is AN hardware and ballistic chutes,) while the performance is so abysmal that i can't imagine them being that much fun after the novelty wears off. A lot of birds that look like ultralights, (sail wings, open tube frames, guy wires,) are actually light sport or experimentals, if I had the coin I'd love to have one of these beauties: http://www.aircam.com/ (http://www.aircam.com/) which seems like the ultimate in fixed wing low slow safe flying.
There are ultralight versions of a few venerable experimentals but I don't really understand why it would be better to build them as ultralights than experimentals. I guess because you don't have to do ANY paperwork.
Title: Re: Local gyrocopter pilot killed
Post by: Meatwad on February 09, 2016, 07:23:10 PM
So far nothing has come about other then it shows he was in good health. Here is a link to the PDF for the incident, it is still under investigation