Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Alpo on March 18, 2016, 11:31:18 PM
-
I was under the impression that floating down from alt is a no-no. The pilot was to end-flight as soon as bailed out.
The potential as an observatory and ack magnet is too great. Tonight was my second observance of this in the past two months. Tonight just floating, the last FSO a bailed pilot sat on the end of the runway absorbing ack fire until he was strafed.
I can find no written rule... did I miss something? :confused:
-
From the FSO Rules.. Penalties.. Item 7
- Pilots are expected to do their "fighting" from the AC or GV's that they have been assigned to by their CiC. Once you have been shot down you should be heading to your tower. Shooting at the enemy with your .45 or drawing anti-aircraft fire with your pilot is not allowed. You may be suspended for doing so.
-
Thanks Drone... I knew I had read it somewhere.
:salute
-
You can certainly float down...but once you are on the ground you are required to end flight.
-
I always understood the rule to be that a bailed pilot must immediately end flight.
-
- Pilots are expected to do their "fighting" from the AC or GV's that they have been assigned to by their CiC. Once you have been shot down you should be heading to your tower. Shooting at the enemy with your .45 or drawing anti-aircraft fire with your pilot is not allowed. You may be suspended for doing so.
It does not say explicitly. The rule is there to ensure no "Forward Observer Scouts" or ".45 bandits" run around the FSO frame calling in strikes on targets and doing a lot of nonsense. I don't mind if you float down but once ground contact is made its to the tower. Most pilots just tower right away.
Just follow the spirit of the rule.
There is no FSO rule against killing chutes. If you want to risk being strafed in your chute take the scenic route I guess <shrug> but don't complain that you got strafed. I think that's fair.
...so float at your own risk. :)
All that said...this:
Tonight just floating, the last FSO a bailed pilot sat on the end of the runway absorbing ack fire
Is absolutely against the rules as stated above.
-
So a bailed pilot floating over a base taking ack is ok???
-
My entire problem with the bailed pilot floating leisurely is his ability to radio anyone in the area. Sure we can shoot him, but didn't we already accomplish that? From the chute you can still give
Check sixes...
Directional information...
Another wave of bombers coming in on the deck...
And that is just on the defensive side of things, on the offensive side there is always becoming the ack shield. :noid
If you punch out from a damaged plane... you should be required to end flight immediately, period. :salute
-
Agreed! Tower out ends any chance for complaint. This rule would benefit from a clarification/rewrite. Bail out= tower out!
My entire problem with the bailed pilot floating leisurely is his ability to radio anyone in the area. Sure we can shoot him, but didn't we already accomplish that? From the chute you can still give
Check sixes...
Directional information...
Another wave of bombers coming in on the deck...
And that is just on the defensive side of things, on the offensive side there is always becoming the ack shield. :noid
If you punch out from a damaged plane... you should be required to end flight immediately, period. :salute
-
Agreed! Tower out ends any chance for complaint. This rule would benefit from a clarification/rewrite. Bail out= tower out!
I agree.
-
Agreed! Tower out ends any chance for complaint. This rule would benefit from a clarification/rewrite. Bail out= tower out!
Seconded. :aok
-
I once bailed over the channel,I tried to walk,errr swin to the french coast so I wouldnt be captured...... didnt make it as the frame was about to end so I had to tower.... :furious :furious
Now what about if you ditch a plane,do you have to tower or could you risk being killed as you sit in the plane and "advise" squadies,or is that against the rules also?
:salute
-
No you can not sit in a ditched plane and advise no you can not bail and advise. If you bail or your plane is no longer flyable
you should be in the tower or asking to gun for a teammate.
-
I would much rather gun or even just ride in the back seat as an extra pair of eyes!
I wasnt sure about the ditched plane and thats why I asked.
But hey I only want to be able to say I swam the channel! :rofl
:salute
-
Trust me I learned the hard way with this topic I forgot about the rule bailed say on the berm and aimed my 45 at a low flying plane then posted a screen of the incident. Breaking that rule gets ya one night off from FSO so if I bail now I tower as soon as my chute opens then gun or ride as second eyes
-
Now what about if you ditch a plane,do you have to tower or could you risk being killed as you sit in the plane and "advise" squadies,or is that against the rules also?
There are a few "what ifs" of which that is one.
Does it look like a violation of the spirit of the rule? I would say so.
As for bailing...i'm not going to proceed down a road where simply being in a chute is a some kind of violation. Not going there fellas.
-
There are a few "what ifs" of which that is one.
Does it look like a violation of the spirit of the rule? I would say so.
As for bailing...i'm not going to proceed down a road where simply being in a chute is a some kind of violation. Not going there fellas.
Please read this in the most non-argumentative tone you can muster as I'm just curious about the logic and scoring... :aok
I simply do not understand the distinction at all. If Morph's plane is critically hit and he ditches his plane and sits, as a potential forward observer, at that point if he ends flight or frame ends, he is still a lost plane/pilot to the scoring. To this you say it looks like a violation of the spirit of the rule.
However, if Morph instead pulls the ripcord at 10k and floats down to the ground for 10 minutes, the other side is just expected to waste ammo to get him out of the airspace, off the water, or the end of a runway after he's already been logged as a kill? The other option is to let him get all the way to the ground where it is apparently is in the rules that you cannot be running around.
Is it all about the ability to shoot someone with a .45?
Seems a lot easier to simply have folks tower out after bailing or ditching. :cheers:
-
be nice if *wish incoming*, that once a pilot was in his chute, all comms are disabled;
-no check 6
-no text buffer
-no private messages
-no clipboard map
Just a single clipboard button - End Sortie.
Would this not remove the "gaming the game" for the purposes of spying and/or drawing ack-fire? If not help alleviate the concern of a chute floating all the way down from altitude over a strategic target area whilst giving play by play to his own team.
I'm assuming this relates to intelligence gathering, and the pilot "making a significant contribution to their sides war effort, after being "eliminated" via a kill.
Just a rookie's perspective, flame away decade deviants. :salute
-
Trust me I learned the hard way with this topic I forgot about the rule bailed say on the berm and aimed my 45 at a low flying plane then posted a screen of the incident. Breaking that rule gets ya one night off from FSO so if I bail now I tower as soon as my chute opens then gun or ride as second eyes
Was the plane you shot at a Russian model perchance? If it was a Yak, that was me.
I about pee'd my pants when the .45 round hit me! :cheers:
It reminded me of the mouse flipping off the eagle at the critical endgame.
Last Act of Defiance
I got a great laugh out of that. Against the rules but still, it was funny as hell when you actually hit my engine cowling!
:salute
-
as the CO I make it a reguirement for my guys to tower immediately once they bail, this way
we eliminate any issues with the bail out rule. I also agree will towering once your plane is down
and I also encourage my guys to join another squaddie if possible. I find them more useful as a second set
of eyes than floating down in a chute.
weiser
co/162ndFG
-
How about an even more clear cut rule: No Bailing Out.
-
Glad the rule was clarified. I was always under the assumption that you had to tower on hitting the ground in a chute. I always figured that if the bad guys were flying around wasting ammo on my chute they weren't shooting at my squad mates.
-
How about an even more clear cut rule: No Bailing Out.
I will be welding all Pigs into their cockpits. :D
-
I didn't know you could weld pork. Looks like I'm trying a new technique when I cook my spareribs tonight. :devil
-
Welding is the perfect holiday treatment for smoked bacon.
At least, I've been told that.
:D
-
:rofl
-
My 2 cents, you bail you have 10 seconds to tower or you incur a 100 point penalty for your side. 30 seconds gets you suspended. Repeated violations get you suspended. Killing a chute gets you 100 points so you better act fast! :evil:
-
Since there's no grey area in FSO insofar as lives there's no point in bailing. You either live thru the frame or you don't. You either make it back before frame's end or you don't. It's the same ammount of points either way. No less because you bailed, ditched, were captured or what have you. A lost plane is a lost plane. All that said, since it seems to be becoming a thing, I say nip that in the bud now and rule it no bailing under any circumstances. You bail, you get penalized. Simple.
The MA is thataway!
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
-
I'm not going to say I am 100% correct in this, but I seem to remember several occasions where living, saved you a point or 2 vs going down in flames.
Essentially a bail or a ditch was worth less to the other side vs a death....
Everyone who flies FSO knows the rule, simple as that........ Just abide by it, it's not that hard.
-
Since there's no grey area in FSO insofar as lives there's no point in bailing. You either live thru the frame or you don't. You either make it back before frame's end or you don't. It's the same ammount of points either way. No less because you bailed, ditched, were captured or what have you. A lost plane is a lost plane. All that said, since it seems to be becoming a thing, I say nip that in the bud now and rule it no bailing under any circumstances. You bail, you get penalized. Simple.
The MA is thataway!
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Well, for me personally, It's sort of a badge of honor to survive each frame even if I get shot down and captured. I like to think that I'm wily enough to escape those bastages and get back in time to fly in the next frame. :neener: But I do like to make my survival a part of the plan if possible. Been a pretty good start to the year so far in that regard. Just one of them things. :bolt:
-
I don't open my chute until im about 1k off the ground anyway. keeps me from getting killed.
-
Since there's no grey area in FSO insofar as lives there's no point in bailing. You either live thru the frame or you don't. You either make it back before frame's end or you don't. It's the same ammount of points either way. No less because you bailed, ditched, were captured or what have you. A lost plane is a lost plane. All that said, since it seems to be becoming a thing, I say nip that in the bud now and rule it no bailing under any circumstances. You bail, you get penalized. Simple.
Well, for me personally, It's sort of a badge of honor to survive each frame even if I get shot down and captured. I like to think that I'm wily enough to escape those bastages and get back in time to fly in the next frame. :neener: But I do like to make my survival a part of the plan if possible. Been a pretty good start to the year so far in that regard. Just one of them things. :bolt:
When I originally posted this, I felt exactly as you do Bannor. I had ZERO problem with folks bailing out of a plane spiraling into the ground, I still have no problem with it. Especially with the HTC addition of the ability to End Flight from a chute. It was my understanding that once you are out of the plane and falling, it was mandated to End Flight (.ef) immediately after in ALL Special Events. A standard I make sure to try and impart on all of JG54 when I hear that someone is hit and bailing. Specifically for the reasons I explained in the original post.
I don't want penalties for simply hitting enter 3x and I certainly do not want to penalize the folks for "keeping it real" by playing the pilot survival card. However, there is just no reason I can see to be in the chute floating for 3+ minutes or walking around on the ground for a similar amount of time as the battle rages around them. I would just like to see the capabilities of using chutes as anything other than a method of getting out of a plane, removed if at all possible. :airplane:
:salute
-
Point wise I have always been under the impression that a bail or ditch was scored as a death in FSO anyway. I have always told our guys not to ride it down.
-
it was mandated to End Flight (.ef) immediately after in ALL Special Events.
No there was never any such rule.
-
Point wise I have always been under the impression that a bail or ditch was scored as a death in FSO anyway. I have always told our guys not to ride it down.
Some setups in the past have offered different scores against your side for death, ditching, captured or bailing. There were a few times that I flew a hopelessly damaged plane as far out of enemy territory as I could just in an attempt to earn a "bravely bailed" score that was slightly better than the "captured" score and much better than the "death" score. I would rather see this kind of scoring more often as it can lead to a longer FSO night and some additional personal drama that otherwise wouldn't be a tempting option if ditch/capture/bail/death all scored the same.
As far as the original topic goes, yeah as soon as you score as ditch (plane comes to a stop on the ground), death, bail (you're scored as bailed as soon as you hit enter the third time), or captured (same metrics as ditch/bail just too close to enemy when it happens) then you should be in the tower and offering to gun for a team mate.
-
It happened again at A11. Two allied chutes at the field soaking up ack. Names can be provided via film if necessary.
Muttman
-
We need film yes.
-
It happened again at A11. Two allied chutes at the field soaking up ack. Names can be provided via film if necessary.
Muttman
Muttman, are you going to send your film in? or do you want me to dig mine out and email it in?
a lot of us in the 412th were there seeing it and talking about it last night
TC
-
warloc1841@gmail.com
-
Film sent. :salute
-
Got it and I am contacting the parties.
-
thanks :aok
-
Film sent. :salute
Thanks Kanth :aok
TC
-
So to summarize this thread:
floating in a chute is OK.
floating in a chute and radioing observations is OK.
floating in a chute and drawing ack fire is OK.
floating in a chute to create a red ICON for enemy to see is OK.
floating in a chute to keep a base flashing is OK. It must be if all the above is OK.
Touching the ground in a chute is NOT OK.
Ditching an AC and sitting in the wreckage is NOT OK because you are no longer flying an AC.
Question: Didn't your AC become wreckage on the ground moments after you bailed? Are we considering a Chute ...an Aircraft?
Why the staunch avoidance to just make or clarify a simple rule that the majority seems to agree with that says....NO FLOATING IN A CHUTE?
Just wondering.
Softail
-
So to summarize this thread:
floating in a chute is OK.
floating in a chute and radioing observations is OK.
floating in a chute and drawing ack fire is OK. <-- How did you come up with this one?
floating in a chute to create a red ICON for enemy to see is OK.
floating in a chute to keep a base flashing is OK. It must be if all the above is OK.
Touching the ground in a chute is NOT OK.
Ditching an AC and sitting in the wreckage is NOT OK because you are no longer flying an AC.
Question: Didn't your AC become wreckage on the ground moments after you bailed? Are we considering a Chute ...an Aircraft?
Why the staunch avoidance to just make or clarify a simple rule that the majority seems to agree with that says....NO FLOATING IN A CHUTE?
Just wondering.
Softail
:old:
Back in the day.. many moons ago.. one could not end flight while suspended under the canopy of deliverance.. one must ride it to the ground to exit flight, so 'towering out' from the chute wasn't even an option. I got pretty good about figuring how close to the ground to free fall before hitting the 'O' without splatting. Hmm.. or, maybe if you towered out it counted as an immediate death, not a bail or capture.. This rule may have been established during that time.
I recall at least one time when somebody pulled the chord at 20k or so.. took them forever to land.. :rofl
Also, the CM team didn't like to change rules.. and, it appears that is still the case. And, really, there isn't a need to change them.
My additional $.02, anyway..
:salute
-
:old:
Back in the day.. many moons ago.. one could not end flight while suspended under the canopy of deliverance.. one must ride it to the ground to exit flight, so 'towering out' from the chute wasn't even an option. I got pretty good about figuring how close to the ground to free fall before hitting the 'O' without splatting. Hmm.. or, maybe if you towered out it counted as an immediate death, not a bail or capture.. This rule may have been established during that time.
I recall at least one time when somebody pulled the chord at 20k or so.. took them forever to land.. :rofl
Also, the CM team didn't like to change rules.. and, it appears that is still the case. And, really, there isn't a need to change them.
My additional $.02, anyway..
:salute
How did "I" come up with that one you ask. I didn't, it's in the thread.....it has been specifically stated...floating in a chute is OK. Sitting on the GROUND absorbing ACK is NOT. Drawing ACK in the AIR must be allowed because of the CM's desire to keep a very vague rule.....and applying simple logic. If I am in the AIR...I can do no wrong. Wrong can only be done on the GROUND. You cannot punish someone for floating over ack...you have no rule against it. When you say things like "Spirit of the rule" now you have just said...whatever rules I decide to have at the time. There is no "spirit" with rules...it is written...or it is not. If you wish to punish someone, you need to write a rule. Your rule is for GROUND only then as long as I never touch the ground....I can draw as much ack as will shoot at me. Given the reduced ack settings....I could float for quite a while.
I merely applied the rules and conditions stated in this thread in response to the question about floating in chutes. If someone said: The rules state: You have 30 seconds to .ef after a bailout. This would have been over in one post.
Now, if you still feel you can punish someone for breaking an "unwritten" rule, that is another issue. My final $.05
It does not say explicitly. The rule is there to ensure no "Forward Observer Scouts" or ".45 bandits" run around the FSO frame calling in strikes on targets and doing a lot of nonsense. I don't mind if you float down but once ground contact is made its to the tower. Most pilots just tower right away.
Just follow the spirit of the rule.
There is no FSO rule against killing chutes. If you want to risk being strafed in your chute take the scenic route I guess <shrug> but don't complain that you got strafed. I think that's fair.
...so float at your own risk
All that said...this:
Is absolutely against the rules as stated above.
-
From the FSO Rules.. Penalties.. Item 7
Quote
- Pilots are expected to do their "fighting" from the AC or GV's that they have been assigned to by their CiC. Once you have been shot down you should be heading to your tower. Shooting at the enemy with your .45 or drawing anti-aircraft fire with your pilot is not allowed. You may be suspended for doing so.
Dude.. from the 2nd post in this thread.
Nothing separates it from ground or air.
".. or drawing anti-aircraft fire with your pilot is not allowed."
That's pretty clear.
Don't do that.