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General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Condor on March 25, 2016, 01:36:51 PM

Title: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Condor on March 25, 2016, 01:36:51 PM
When running AH3 Alpha I hear a sort of click from my computer case every 30 to 60 seconds. It's sound like some type of relay. I don't hear this in AH2 or at any or when running any other software.

I am seeing FPS of 80-100 with most of the graphics settings except detail disabled.  I notice nothing unusual on the screen when it occurs. Any of you hardware experts have any ideas? Does it indicate a problem? I do have vertical sync disabled for FPS monitoring. Could it relate to that?

I have a 700W power supply so I can't believe anything is starved for power. DxDiag attached.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Bizman on March 25, 2016, 02:32:25 PM
I don't know if this is related. I have a HD 6970 and when I play AH3 Beta the fan spins like the GPU would get airborne at any moment. It does the same when I run a graphic intensive benchmarking program so the key word is maximal GPU usage.

I recall reading that some power supplies have some sort of a relay system to reduce something. I know this isn't too clear but I read it several years ago. If my memory serves me it had something to do with cutting down the fan noise, the relay checking the need for cooling every minute or so. The author described the clicking sound being somewhat annoying. Thus, because your video card is dragging lots of power the power supply is also running hotter than usual, triggering the fan control relay. Maybe.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Condor on March 25, 2016, 03:09:42 PM
I don't know if this is related. I have a HD 6970 and when I play AH3 Beta the fan spins like the GPU would get airborne at any moment. It does the same when I run a graphic intensive benchmarking program so the key word is maximal GPU usage.

I recall reading that some power supplies have some sort of a relay system to reduce something. I know this isn't too clear but I read it several years ago. If my memory serves me it had something to do with cutting down the fan noise, the relay checking the need for cooling every minute or so. The author described the clicking sound being somewhat annoying. Thus, because your video card is dragging lots of power the power supply is also running hotter than usual, triggering the fan control relay. Maybe.

Thanks,

Sounds reasonable. I checked temps and my video GPU temp increases from 42C ate rest to about 80C in AH3 and the fan speeds up from 24% to 36%
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Chalenge on March 25, 2016, 06:50:13 PM
It could also be a failing hard drive.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Condor on March 25, 2016, 07:37:03 PM
It could also be a failing hard drive.

Love an optimist
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Chalenge on March 26, 2016, 01:43:00 AM
Better that you be warned in advance.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: TequilaChaser on March 26, 2016, 09:36:42 AM
I was also thinking it might be possibly a hard drive (the platter type)

Also, what Bizman posted sounds familiar, from past article readings...

Your VC temperatures you posted for idle: 42c ...speeding up to 80c running AH3, seems a bit high to me...especially the idle temp.... 80c seems high to me as well...

You posted that you have your VC fan speed set to 24%:idle/low load , then 36%: high load

I personally recommend to adjust your current set limits, or turn off the automatic fan speed control, then go in and for example: set the idle or bottom temp/fan speed to around 40-50% and set the under load/higher temp/fan speed anywhere from say 65%, 70% or even 80% or higher...

Just a recommendation....your temperature readings seems high to me, both for idle and for under load....

I don't know anything about your computer build, but one needs good adequate airflow ...

Hope this helps

TC

Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Bizman on March 26, 2016, 10:03:51 AM
The higher end Radeon HD6000 series seem to run quite hot. Mine has been on for an hour or so and it's 53c idle. I don't monitor frequently but I did some testing when the Alpha triggered the high fan speed. 80 seems to be a normal temperature under heavy load.

IIRC there was some discussion about their temperatures way back when the HD 6000's were new. Pudgie might know. Anyway, if my memory serves me right, they run hot by design without any performance or stability issues. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: TequilaChaser on March 26, 2016, 10:17:39 AM
Hmm...my XFX HD6950 2GB video card never goes above 47/48c under load while playing aces high...

Got to love my Thermaltake Level 10 GT PC case.....it really does keep everything running cool


TC
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Spikes on March 26, 2016, 10:36:18 AM
Love an optimist

When dealing with computer issues it is very difficult to be optimistic. You'll see one day. :)
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: guncrasher on March 26, 2016, 10:50:23 AM
I was also thinking it might be possibly a hard drive (the platter type)

Also, what Bizman posted sounds familiar, from past article readings...

Your VC temperatures you posted for idle: 42c ...speeding up to 80c running AH3, seems a bit high to me...especially the idle temp.... 80c seems high to me as well...

You posted that you have your VC fan speed set to 24%:idle/low load , then 36%: high load

I personally recommend to adjust your current set limits, or turn off the automatic fan speed control, then go in and for example: set the idle or bottom temp/fan speed to around 40-50% and set the under load/higher temp/fan speed anywhere from say 65%, 70% or even 80% or higher...

Just a recommendation....your temperature readings seems high to me, both for idle and for under load....

I don't know anything about your computer build, but one needs good adequate airflow ...

Hope this helps

TC

idle temp depend a lot on the temperature of the room itself as well as the case.  80 degrees is not too bad considering that that specific card can handle temps up to 100.  ah3 uses a lot more of the gpu than ah2. so everybody is gonna see a spike in higher temps for their card.

semp
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: hgtonyvi on March 26, 2016, 10:58:21 AM
I also noticed that my GPU fan speed increased when running AH3 beta. I guess that's because the game is relying more on the GPU.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Condor on March 26, 2016, 07:06:40 PM
When dealing with computer issues it is very difficult to be optimistic. You'll see one day. :)

Yup. The IT guy at the plant where I worked like to say there are two types of computer users. Those who's hard drives have failed and those who's hard drive will fail. I'm one of the latter so I always have backups.

I doubt the noise is the hard drive though, it's a different sound than I'm used to hearing from HDs and I only hear it in AH3. Never in AH2. 
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Condor on March 26, 2016, 07:21:29 PM
The higher end Radeon HD6000 series seem to run quite hot. Mine has been on for an hour or so and it's 53c idle. I don't monitor frequently but I did some testing when the Alpha triggered the high fan speed. 80 seems to be a normal temperature under heavy load.

IIRC there was some discussion about their temperatures way back when the HD 6000's were new. Pudgie might know. Anyway, if my memory serves me right, they run hot by design without any performance or stability issues. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

My HF6950 is at 41C right now with fan at 29%. I did an internet search and it seems these cards tend to run hot. The max temp mentioned in several reviews is 95C.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Chalenge on March 26, 2016, 11:36:08 PM
I would immediately move all of the data on the drive that AH3 is mounted on to another drive (clone it). You can use Macrium Reflect to do the migration quickly and efficiently for free. After the move if the noise continues then you know it is not the hard drive. In that case you should probably begin replacing all of your case fans, and even the GPU fan(s). I can't remember ever having a GPU fan make that kind of noise, but I try to replace things long before they might fail.

What happens in the case of a HDD is the platter starts to get this deep rut engraved into the surface. I just love taking HDDs apart and finding that very rough groove cut into the mirror surface. It can develop very quickly, too.

(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/hard_disk_head_crash_zpsg4shtnjp.jpg)
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Bizman on March 27, 2016, 04:08:24 AM
Cloning the hard drive for testing is a very good idea, Chalenge! Thanks for bringing it up.

Condor, yesterday I did some more monitoring while testing the Beta. The highest temperature was 99c and it dropped rapidly even while alt-tabbing from the game to view the monitoring program. And at times the fan was blowing like a tornado!
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Condor on March 27, 2016, 04:17:51 PM
I would immediately move all of the data on the drive that AH3 is mounted on to another drive (clone it). You can use Macrium Reflect to do the migration quickly and efficiently for free. After the move if the noise continues then you know it is not the hard drive. In that case you should probably begin replacing all of your case fans, and even the GPU fan(s). I can't remember ever having a GPU fan make that kind of noise, but I try to replace things long before they might fail.

What happens in the case of a HDD is the platter starts to get this deep rut engraved into the surface. I just love taking HDDs apart and finding that very rough groove cut into the mirror surface. It can develop very quickly, too.

(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/hard_disk_head_crash_zpsg4shtnjp.jpg)

Thanks for the tip about free Macrium reflect. Ive got a couple of spare HDs. Do you know if I can do the clone to an external hard drive via USB? The Macrium site was kind of light on details.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Chalenge on March 27, 2016, 06:19:34 PM
IF your OS can see the drive you can use it.

EDIT: The manual is here: http://updates.macrium.com/reflect/v6/user_guide/macrium_reflect_v6_user_guide.pdf
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Condor on March 29, 2016, 11:39:39 PM
Thanks for all your suggestions. I decided to go low tech and try to locate the sound by ear while AH3 was running. It's not from the computer. It's from my APC UPS that's next to the computer. So now I have to wonder what the deal is with that. It only happens when playing AH3, never when playing AH2. It's nice to know it's not the computer.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: TequilaChaser on March 30, 2016, 01:36:20 AM
Thanks for all your suggestions. I decided to go low tech and try to locate the sound by ear while AH3 was running. It's not from the computer. It's from my APC UPS that's next to the computer. So now I have to wonder what the deal is with that. It only happens when playing AH3, never when playing AH2. It's nice to know it's not the computer.

battery sounds like it's about to conk out on you if it is your BPS making the clicking..... I don't have that problem, but I only have 2 APC UPS's running, and the PC's on them don't run all he time, but it sounds familiar from a few yrs ago.... I recommend you get ready to buy some back-up battery(s) for that APC UPS

TC
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Chalenge on March 30, 2016, 02:19:12 AM
Probably your UPS is not sufficiently supplying power when your PSU is powering your GPU at peak output.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: TequilaChaser on March 30, 2016, 03:21:02 AM
Probably your UPS is not sufficiently supplying power when your PSU is powering your GPU at peak output.

yes, is a possibility it is under sized for his system, I've ran into that issue before myself many years ago.....
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Drane on March 30, 2016, 04:31:25 AM
Thanks for all your suggestions. I decided to go low tech and try to locate the sound by ear while AH3 was running. It's not from the computer. It's from my APC UPS that's next to the computer. So now I have to wonder what the deal is with that. It only happens when playing AH3, never when playing AH2. It's nice to know it's not the computer.

Condor I'd recommend minimum 850VA UPS for a CPU, modem, router, and a low power draw monitor (like LCD). That should give you enough time to land if you're near a friendly base when the power goes out.

I hook everything else, like printers and sound, to surge only. Printers can be torture to an UPS when hooked up to the battery output.  :O  If you can move something from battery to surge that might help your situation.

Personally I've given up on APC. They kept screwing up even when the batteries are good.  :furious  We do have a lot of power fluctuations here. The cost of shipping them back for warranty makes them a bad deal for me.

Bought a couple Tripplites and they have been awesome with keeping power steady to my rigs. Got these from Amazon.  :)
http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-ECO850LCD-Battery-Outlets/dp/B004ZMESXE?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00 (http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-ECO850LCD-Battery-Outlets/dp/B004ZMESXE?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00)
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Condor on March 30, 2016, 12:38:34 PM
Condor I'd recommend minimum 850VA UPS for a CPU, modem, router, and a low power draw monitor (like LCD). That should give you enough time to land if you're near a friendly base when the power goes out.

I hook everything else, like printers and sound, to surge only. Printers can be torture to an UPS when hooked up to the battery output.  :O  If you can move something from battery to surge that might help your situation.

Personally I've given up on APC. They kept screwing up even when the batteries are good.  :furious  We do have a lot of power fluctuations here. The cost of shipping them back for warranty makes them a bad deal for me.

Bought a couple Tripplites and they have been awesome with keeping power steady to my rigs. Got these from Amazon.  :)
http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-ECO850LCD-Battery-Outlets/dp/B004ZMESXE?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00 (http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-ECO850LCD-Battery-Outlets/dp/B004ZMESXE?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00)

Probably your UPS is not sufficiently supplying power when your PSU is powering your GPU at peak output.

My APC is rated 750V and 450W. I only have computer and monitor plugged into battery backup. Everything else is surge protection only. Right now according to the APC software, the system is consuming 100 watts (It only measure whats plugged into battery backup) and I have 15min of battery time. In AH3 the power consumption increases to 250-300 W and battery time drops to 5 min. It doesn't appear I'm overtaxing the APC unit if their software is to be believed.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Condor on March 30, 2016, 12:44:03 PM
battery sounds like it's about to conk out on you if it is your BPS making the clicking..... I don't have that problem, but I only have 2 APC UPS's running, and the PC's on them don't run all he time, but it sounds familiar from a few yrs ago.... I recommend you get ready to buy some back-up battery(s) for that APC UPS

TC

Thanks,

You may be right. I've had it for more almost 6 years without a battery replacement but the computer only runs for 2-3 hours a day if that. Can you explain why a failing battery would cause a clicking sound when the system is running on house power and the battery is not needed?
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Bizman on March 30, 2016, 01:01:33 PM
Thanks,

You may be right. I've had it for more almost 6 years without a battery replacement but the computer only runs for 2-3 hours a day if that. Can you explain why a failing battery would cause a clicking sound when the system is running on house power and the battery is not needed?

Quote from: http://www.apc.com/site/support/us/en/faq/?page=content&country=ITB&lang=en&locale=en_US&id=FA156554&redirect=true
---The Smart-UPS will make a clicking sound when the UPS is enabling AVR Boost or AVR Trim. AVR Boost is when the UPS uses the internal transformer to increase input voltage which may be too low; AVR Trim is when the UPS uses the internal transformer to decrease input voltage which may be too high. When the UPS switches to use this transformer, an internal relay makes a clicking sound. This is normal operation of the UPS reacting to too-high, or too-low voltage.---

Also http://www.edugeek.net/forums/hardware/10634-apc-ups-clicking-constantly.html (http://www.edugeek.net/forums/hardware/10634-apc-ups-clicking-constantly.html) gives some ideas about the clicking. And http://forums.apc.com/spaces/4/back-ups-surge-protectors/forums/general/755/back-upss-clicking-on-and-off-due-to-electrical-noise-all-day (http://forums.apc.com/spaces/4/back-ups-surge-protectors/forums/general/755/back-upss-clicking-on-and-off-due-to-electrical-noise-all-day).

Seems you're not alone.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Drane on March 30, 2016, 01:51:30 PM
Thanks,

You may be right. I've had it for more almost 6 years without a battery replacement but the computer only runs for 2-3 hours a day if that. Can you explain why a failing battery would cause a clicking sound when the system is running on house power and the battery is not needed?

Wow Condor! 6 years is amazing time to get out of ups batteries. I usually get 3 years max.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Drane on March 30, 2016, 01:57:20 PM
Also http://www.edugeek.net/forums/hardware/10634-apc-ups-clicking-constantly.html (http://www.edugeek.net/forums/hardware/10634-apc-ups-clicking-constantly.html) gives some ideas about the clicking. And http://forums.apc.com/spaces/4/back-ups-surge-protectors/forums/general/755/back-upss-clicking-on-and-off-due-to-electrical-noise-all-day (http://forums.apc.com/spaces/4/back-ups-surge-protectors/forums/general/755/back-upss-clicking-on-and-off-due-to-electrical-noise-all-day).

Seems you're not alone.

Yeah Bizman that's why I mentioned the part about giving up on APC. Sounds like Condor has an ups that's starting to fail.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Drane on March 30, 2016, 02:06:40 PM
My APC is rated 750V and 450W. I only have computer and monitor plugged into battery backup. Everything else is surge protection only. Right now according to the APC software, the system is consuming 100 watts (It only measure whats plugged into battery backup) and I have 15min of battery time. In AH3 the power consumption increases to 250-300 W and battery time drops to 5 min. It doesn't appear I'm overtaxing the APC unit if their software is to be believed.

Hi Condor, looks like you've got it set up good.  :salute  All my APC ups started doing goofy things when they were about to quit.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Condor on March 30, 2016, 02:40:16 PM
Wow Condor! 6 years is amazing time to get out of ups batteries. I usually get 3 years max.

It's just that I'm cheap and lucky. Probably time to replace the battery. APC recommends every 3 years. I can get a battery for $45-50. But then what if it's the UPS itself..........?
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Drane on March 30, 2016, 03:02:00 PM
It's just that I'm cheap and lucky. Probably time to replace the battery. APC recommends every 3 years. I can get a battery for $45-50. But then what if it's the UPS itself..........?

You might be able to find one for $15 - $25 dollars if you get the manufacturer part number and AH rating off the battery and search for that. Bought my last couple batteries off Amazon that way. I personally would get a new UPS for peace of mind.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Condor on March 30, 2016, 03:22:15 PM
You might be able to find one for $15 - $25 dollars if you get the manufacturer part number and AH rating off the battery and search for that. Bought my last couple batteries off Amazon that way. I personally would get a new UPS for peace of mind.

Good thought. APC has placed their label over the manufacturer's and there's has no part number but I can probably strip off the APC label and get the info I need. Have to think about replacing the UPS.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Chalenge on March 30, 2016, 04:59:28 PM
I buy batteries off of Amazon (like a lot of people) and keep spares on hand because (just like everything else) batteries can be off specs even on day one. As far as the clicking goes there can be many reasons it is happening, but there are things that you may want to do that you are not already doing that would improve the life of any future UPS that you buy. First, you can buy a surge protecting and power conditioner power strip, or buy them as series devices. I buy Furman for this and usually I will have a 6-plug surge protector (Furman SS6B) at every outlet. My house is already prepared with line conditioning like a lot of people, but I also add a power conditioner (Furman M-8X2) at every station (my main desk uses two). If your house sees a lot of discontinuity, or variation then it will drive your UPS nuts and prematurely age electronics all the way down the pipe.

This is not the end of the story, however. You will have to replace the surge protectors occasionally. I think the $25 is an expense I can live with for the protection it offers to my electronics. Here in lower Alabama/North Florida we get a LOT of lightning. Maybe where you live it is not so bad, but surge protectors are not perfect and they do have a limited lifetime. That's part of the price for protection. If you get a strike local to your house, or experience something like a blown transformer it is a pretty good indication that something may have come down the wire, so just be aware of things and maintain things regularly and you'll be fine.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Condor on April 06, 2016, 05:52:49 PM
Symptoms are worse and I think it's time for a new UPS. My current unit is an APC BE750G Back-UPS 750VA is not line interactive and we have not only a lot of lightning here in Indiana but also frequent power fluctuations. It's my understanding that a line interactive unit will deal better with the power fluctuations. From the research I've done it appears that one of the following will best meet my needs. The only things I will have plugged into the battery backup are my gaming computer and 24" Asus LCD monitor so I think any of the 1000 VA units should be adequate. The APC is most expensive but they are all within $15 of one another. I'm leaning toward the CyberPower but would appreciate recommendations from any of you who have experience with these units or more expertise than me.

APC Back‑UPS Pro 1000 UPS ‑ 600W ‑ 1000 VA
CyberPower CP1000AVRLCD Intelligent LCD Series UPS 1000VA 600W AVR
Tripp Lite SMART1000LCD 1000VA 500W UPS Back Up Smart Tower LCD AVR

Thanks
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Chalenge on April 09, 2016, 04:52:04 AM
Any unit you buy at the consumer level is not going to mitigate a problem on the line more than once. I use what they call "Online UPS" for the really important stuff, but it is really overkill for your personal computer. It is "the real deal," and for that reason it is more expensive. Anyway, the more "usual" protection I use is a surge protector, power conditioner, and UPS as separate units. It should be all you need.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Skuzzy on April 09, 2016, 05:46:11 AM
That is not quite accurate Chalenge.  The MOV (the device used for surge protection..aka Metal Oxide Varistor) used in the consumer market will take many hits before it stops taking them.  The problem is, even a slight transient surge is a hit so the MOV is being damaged (that is how it works) when you are not aware of it.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Chalenge on April 09, 2016, 06:55:19 AM
Thank you for clarifying Skuzzy. I was paraphrasing I guess, based on what has been discussed here before. What I mean to say is that the effect of those transient hits are invisible to the user, and then a major hit takes it down for real. I prefer to engage in multiple layers of preemptive action rather than depend on one last ditch barrier. I don't think most users leave their systems running 24/7, but I do.

Of course, with Windows 10 now I have to reboot a lot more often.
Title: Re: Strange Sound from Computer Case When Runnung AH3
Post by: Skuzzy on April 10, 2016, 06:38:08 AM
Quite frankly, I would not rely on the built-in surge protection of any consumer UPS.  There are some quality power strips with surge protection and a monitor to tell you when it needs to be replaced which are far more effective than the built-in UPS surge protection.