Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: bortas1 on April 10, 2016, 02:37:44 AM
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:salute i3 i5 i7 depending on which one you may get will out perform another. how can you tell just by the numbers by the I? im have alittle confusion going on on which is the best performer for the buck. I have read some on this(what I have read really wasn't clear which is the best)
number 2: amd vs intel
number 3: GeForce(evga?)vs amd readon
truly im trying to understand this stuff. sometimes all I see is blah blah blah .
:salute :cheers: thank you in advance
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I like Intel CPU's over AMD CPU's. My preference used to be based on everyone testing everything more thoroughly on Intel CPU's that AMD, and thus fewer weird issues with drivers, software, etc. on Intel. These days, Intel CPU's might perform better per $ cost as well, although I'm not positive about that.
I prefer nVidia GPU's to AMD GPU's. My preference is based on, long ago not liking the quality of Radeon drivers vs. GeForce drivers and liking the antialiasing of nVidia cards better than Radeon cards. These days, my preference is that nVidia seems to use less wattage than AMD GPU's for similar performance. Also, I have been happy with nVidia cards in recent years.
I get i5 CPU's because they are faster (usually -- can depend on some specifics) than i3's but significantly (to my measure of significance) less costly than i7's. So, for me, it is a happy medium.
I have found that even an i5-2400 (a Dell computer, which cost $500 when new) and a GeForce GTX 750 Ti card (which costs about $130 today) gives me approx. 60 fps in AH3 beta flying offline around a base with drones.
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i3 i5 i7? No wonder you're confused, there's so many Intel processors on the market. Not only the i-line, there's also Celerons and Pentiums. Basically i7 is the king of the hill but then again its superiority depends on the task it has to do. For example AH2 leans heavily on the CPU, so a dual core i3-6320 @ 3.9 GHz would outperform an i7-920 @ 2.66 GHz by a margin. Even an i7-6700K @ 4 GHz wouldn't perform any better in AH2. Then again, there's multithreaded, memory intensive tasks where the high end quad core would be superior. But for AH only a high clocked dual core like the i3-6320 should be more than enough now and in the future.
AMD vs. Intel? There's been issues with AMD not so many years ago, so Intel might be a little safer choice at the moment. They also seem to use less energy which will show in your electricity bill.
GeForce vs. AMD? At the moment it seems that GeForce makes the fastest cards. And again, AMD plays the role of the energy hog. They both have their pros and cons, as always. If you want to know the hierarchy of a certain card in its series, Wikipedia seems to have quite a lot of information. Search for wiki articles for "GeForce 900 series", for example, for a chart telling all the models and their specs sorted by performance level. For comparing older cards with the current ones, you can find similar wiki articles but it also helps to search for card to card comparisons like "gtx 960 vs 770". Not to mention the Passmark benchmark (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html) of virtually all video cards there's ever been.
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i3 i5 i7? No wonder you're confused, there's so many Intel processors on the market. Not only the i-line, there's also Celerons and Pentiums. Basically i7 is the king of the hill but then again its superiority depends on the task it has to do. For example AH2 leans heavily on the CPU, so a dual core i3-6320 @ 3.9 GHz would outperform an i7-920 @ 2.66 GHz by a margin. Even an i7-6700K @ 4 GHz wouldn't perform any better in AH2. Then again, there's multithreaded, memory intensive tasks where the high end quad core would be superior. But for AH only a high clocked dual core like the i3-6320 should be more than enough now and in the future.
AMD vs. Intel? There's been issues with AMD not so many years ago, so Intel might be a little safer choice at the moment. They also seem to use less energy which will show in your electricity bill.
GeForce vs. AMD? At the moment it seems that GeForce makes the fastest cards. And again, AMD plays the role of the energy hog. They both have their pros and cons, as always. If you want to know the hierarchy of a certain card in its series, Wikipedia seems to have quite a lot of information. Search for wiki articles for "GeForce 900 series", for example, for a chart telling all the models and their specs sorted by performance level. For comparing older cards with the current ones, you can find similar wiki articles but it also helps to search for card to card comparisons like "gtx 960 vs 770". Not to mention the Passmark benchmark (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html) of virtually all video cards there's ever been.
Bizman
Where does the bus/ram speed fit in there though, for example I have an older 4 core AMD Phenom 2 Black Edition oc'd to 3.6. It works well still in many cases although in some it does not and I really don't feel it pushes the GTX970 vid card I have, by my guess because of the slower bus/ram speed (8gb)
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Hungry, truth to be said I haven't studied processor technology deep enough to give you an exact answer. That's also the reason why the Intel processors in my previous post are of same era.
In my layman way of thinking buses are like water hoses. To get more water running you'd either have to add pressure (oc) which may cause the hose to burst or get a wider hose. I know that's not a perfect explanation, it doesn't explain how it's possible to make anything run at a higher bus speed etc.
As for your overclocked AMD you may be right about the bus speeds, after all there's quite many years between the Phenom II and the GTX 970. Or, the lack of oomph may be due to the issues I referred to regarding AMD processors. AH could only use one core of certain AMD multi core CPUs. There used to be some program for unleashing the power of AMD processors but since I've never used that myself I can't remember what it was called and which processors it was for. Your processor may be from that date. The hardcore AMD users in this forum might be able to help.
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Thanks Bizman, I know early on I had to get the program to unlock the fourth core, Its been awhile since I built this one, getting ready for the next and maybe the last, the older I get the longer in between it is (Its not that I'm getting older mind you I think I'm getting cheaper) lol
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AH only uses 2 cores so anything more is overkill for AH but may be useful in other applications. As Bizman said there was a time AH could only use a single core in certain AMD CPU's. Not sure if that's still the case or not.
I3's are dual core processors so are enough for AH as long as you have a high enough clock speed. I5's and I7's are both quad cores with the I7 having a larger cache, thus the ability to process larger amounts of data faster than the I5 of similar speed. This is useful for graphics applications, video editing, etc.
Intel no longer uses a front end bus. In the Core2Duos you overclocked by increasing the BUS speed. The I series Intels use something called a ring BUS to move data in and out of cache. The ring BUS can be overclocked independently of the processor cores and vice versa. Only the K series Intels allow overclocking of the processor cores. This can be done in one of two ways; increasing the core clock or increasing the multiplier or a combination of both.
Because there's no longer a front end BUS RAM speed is independent of the processor. In the old days running RAM at a higher clock speed than the front end BUS was wasted money as the RAM would have to wait on the CPU. As RAM moved from DDR2 to DDR3 to DDR4 it's clock speeds had to increase but at the same time CAS latency also increased. I forget the exact numbers but it's something like DDR2 800, DDR3 1600 and DDR4 3200 are almost equivalent. There's a good article about this on Anandtech IIRC. In building my new computer DDR4 2400 was almost as fast as DDR4 3200 at a lower price due to the increase in CAS latency but I opted for the DDR4 3200 nonetheless. Moving to DDR4 3600 or higher showed no appreciable gains.
Back to the old days we knew an Intel CPU was double pumped. Thus, running on a 1600 Mhz front end BUS to DDR2 RAM each core was running at 400 Mhz (400*2 cores*double pumped=1600) and because the RAM was DDR2 transferring data at the tops and bottoms of the cycle 1600/2=800 Mhz RAM kept both in sync. I'm sure there's still some relationship between CPU core clock speeds and RAM speeds but try as I might I haven't been able to find it but even if I could it may be of little consequence given that you can change both the CPU's core clock and the multiplier now.
Hope that helps.
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on amd ah didnt have a choice. amd cpu would only use 1 core as opposite to intel that used 2 cores.
semp
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AH only uses 2 cores so anything more is overkill for AH but may be useful in other applications. As Bizman said there was a time AH could only use a single core in certain AMD CPU's. Not sure if that's still the case or not.
I3's are dual core processors so are enough for AH as long as you have a high enough clock speed. I5's and I7's are both quad cores with the I7 having a larger cache, thus the ability to process larger amounts of data faster than the I5 of similar speed. This is useful for graphics applications, video editing, etc.
Intel no longer uses a front end bus. In the Core2Duos you overclocked by increasing the BUS speed. The I series Intels use something called a ring BUS to move data in and out of cache. The ring BUS can be overclocked independently of the processor cores and vice versa. Only the K series Intels allow overclocking of the processor cores. This can be done in one of two ways; increasing the core clock or increasing the multiplier or a combination of both.
Because there's no longer a front end BUS RAM speed is independent of the processor. In the old days running RAM at a higher clock speed than the front end BUS was wasted money as the RAM would have to wait on the CPU. As RAM moved from DDR2 to DDR3 to DDR4 it's clock speeds had to increase but at the same time CAS latency also increased. I forget the exact numbers but it's something like DDR2 800, DDR3 1600 and DDR4 3200 are almost equivalent. There's a good article about this on Anandtech IIRC. In building my new computer DDR4 2400 was almost as fast as DDR4 3200 at a lower price due to the increase in CAS latency but I opted for the DDR4 3200 nonetheless. Moving to DDR4 3600 or higher showed no appreciable gains.
Back to the old days we knew an Intel CPU was double pumped. Thus, running on a 1600 Mhz front end BUS to DDR2 RAM each core was running at 400 Mhz (400*2 cores*double pumped=1600) and because the RAM was DDR2 transferring data at the tops and bottoms of the cycle 1600/2=800 Mhz RAM kept both in sync. I'm sure there's still some relationship between CPU core clock speeds and RAM speeds but try as I might I haven't been able to find it but even if I could it may be of little consequence given that you can change both the CPU's core clock and the multiplier now.
Hope that helps.
wow Thanks Guys
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IIRC HiTech said somewhere in the Alpha/Beta discussions that AH3 would make use of all cores at some point. However, knowing that he codes it using a Core2Duo E8400 dual core I believe it's safe to assume that the clock rate is more important than the number of cores. That said a dual core doing 3.5 GHz or more should be enough for quite a long time in AH3. If the situation changes in the future you can get a fitting quad core much cheaper than now.
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AH only uses 2 cores so anything more is overkill for AH but may be useful in other applications. As Bizman said there was a time AH could only use a single core in certain AMD CPU's. Not sure if that's still the case or not.<snip>
While the game only directly uses two cores, the OS will make us of the other cores, if available. For instance, any game sound play back can take multiple cores all by itself.
There is a benefit to having more than tow cores, even for Aces High.
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While the game only directly uses two cores, the OS will make us of the other cores, if available. For instance, any game sound play back can take multiple cores all by itself.
There is a benefit to having more than tow cores, even for Aces High.
:salute so I should see about a quad or more cores?
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:salute thanks all for the replays and comments. all info will help. :cheers:
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:salute thanks all for the replays and comments. all info will help. :cheers:
Get a quad. Todays quad vs duo is like double core vs single 5 years ago. More and more benefit will come from quad as time goes by.
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i3 i5 i7? No wonder you're confused, there's so many Intel processors on the market. Not only the i-line, there's also Celerons and Pentiums. Basically i7 is the king of the hill but then again its superiority depends on the task it has to do. For example AH2 leans heavily on the CPU, so a dual core i3-6320 @ 3.9 GHz would outperform an i7-920 @ 2.66 GHz by a margin. Even an i7-6700K @ 4 GHz wouldn't perform any better in AH2. Then again, there's multithreaded, memory intensive tasks where the high end quad core would be superior. But for AH only a high clocked dual core like the i3-6320 should be more than enough now and in the future.
AMD vs. Intel? There's been issues with AMD not so many years ago, so Intel might be a little safer choice at the moment. They also seem to use less energy which will show in your electricity bill.
GeForce vs. AMD? At the moment it seems that GeForce makes the fastest cards. And again, AMD plays the role of the energy hog. They both have their pros and cons, as always. If you want to know the hierarchy of a certain card in its series, Wikipedia seems to have quite a lot of information. Search for wiki articles for "GeForce 900 series", for example, for a chart telling all the models and their specs sorted by performance level. For comparing older cards with the current ones, you can find similar wiki articles but it also helps to search for card to card comparisons like "gtx 960 vs 770". Not to mention the Passmark benchmark (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html) of virtually all video cards there's ever been.
:salute ok thanks will check out wiki GeForce 900 seies :cheers:
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AH only uses 2 cores so anything more is overkill for AH but may be useful in other applications. As Bizman said there was a time AH could only use a single core in certain AMD CPU's. Not sure if that's still the case or not.
I3's are dual core processors so are enough for AH as long as you have a high enough clock speed. I5's and I7's are both quad cores with the I7 having a larger cache, thus the ability to process larger amounts of data faster than the I5 of similar speed. This is useful for graphics applications, video editing, etc.
Intel no longer uses a front end bus. In the Core2Duos you overclocked by increasing the BUS speed. The I series Intels use something called a ring BUS to move data in and out of cache. The ring BUS can be overclocked independently of the processor cores and vice versa. Only the K series Intels allow overclocking of the processor cores. This can be done in one of two ways; increasing the core clock or increasing the multiplier or a combination of both.
Because there's no longer a front end BUS RAM speed is independent of the processor. In the old days running RAM at a higher clock speed than the front end BUS was wasted money as the RAM would have to wait on the CPU. As RAM moved from DDR2 to DDR3 to DDR4 it's clock speeds had to increase but at the same time CAS latency also increased. I forget the exact numbers but it's something like DDR2 800, DDR3 1600 and DDR4 3200 are almost equivalent. There's a good article about this on Anandtech IIRC. In building my new computer DDR4 2400 was almost as fast as DDR4 3200 at a lower price due to the increase in CAS latency but I opted for the DDR4 3200 nonetheless. Moving to DDR4 3600 or higher showed no appreciable gains.
Back to the old days we knew an Intel CPU was double pumped. Thus, running on a 1600 Mhz front end BUS to DDR2 RAM each core was running at 400 Mhz (400*2 cores*double pumped=1600) and because the RAM was DDR2 transferring data at the tops and bottoms of the cycle 1600/2=800 Mhz RAM kept both in sync. I'm sure there's still some relationship between CPU core clock speeds and RAM speeds but try as I might I haven't been able to find it but even if I could it may be of little consequence given that you can change both the CPU's core clock and the multiplier now.
Hope that helps.
:salute ok I didn't understand all of this but still learning thank you :cheers:
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I like Intel CPU's over AMD CPU's. My preference used to be based on everyone testing everything more thoroughly on Intel CPU's that AMD, and thus fewer weird issues with drivers, software, etc. on Intel. These days, Intel CPU's might perform better per $ cost as well, although I'm not positive about that.
I prefer nVidia GPU's to AMD GPU's. My preference is based on, long ago not liking the quality of Radeon drivers vs. GeForce drivers and liking the antialiasing of nVidia cards better than Radeon cards. These days, my preference is that nVidia seems to use less wattage than AMD GPU's for similar performance. Also, I have been happy with nVidia cards in recent years.
I get i5 CPU's because they are faster (usually -- can depend on some specifics) than i3's but significantly (to my measure of significance) less costly than i7's. So, for me, it is a happy medium.
I have found that even an i5-2400 (a Dell computer, which cost $500 when new) and a GeForce GTX 750 Ti card (which costs about $130 today) gives me approx. 60 fps in AH3 beta flying offline around a base with drones.
:salute im leaning towards NVidia. but is evga and GeForce same? :cheers:
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:salute im leaning towards NVidia. but is evga and GeForce same? :cheers:
nVidia makes the GeForce series of graphics processing chips and chipsets.
Other companies buy these from nVidia and then make the graphics card. Those other companies include EVGA, MSI, Zotac, Gigabyte, etc.
AMD likewise makes the Radeon series of graphics chips and chipsets.
Companies that buy the AMD chips and make cards out of them include Sapphire, Powercolor, etc.
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nVidia makes the GeForce series of graphics processing chips and chipsets.
Other companies buy these from nVidia and then make the graphics card. Those other companies include EVGA, MSI, Zotac, Gigabyte, etc.
AMD likewise makes the Radeon series of graphics chips and chipsets.
Companies that buy the AMD chips and make cards out of them include Sapphire, Powercolor, etc.
:salutethank you for the clarification. that really helps a lot. :cheers:
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:salute hey gents this is my first draft if I try to build it my self. im still looking at other options so this isn't set in stone. here it goes.
cpu: intrl core 15-6600 3.3ghz quad=core processor $215.99
cooler: cooler master hyper 212evo 82.9 cfm sleeve bearing cpu cooler $34.89 -$10.00 mail rb $24.89
motherboard: gigabyte ga-z170-hd3 atx lga1151 motherboard $94.99-$10.00 mail rb $87.98
memory: g.skill ripjaws v series 32gm (2x16gm)dd4-3200 memory free shipping $149.99
storage: western digital caviar blue 1tb 3.5" 7200rpm internal hard drive $47.77
video card: evga GeForce gxt 960 4gb supersc acx 2.0 +video card $214.99-$20.00 mail rb free $194.99
case: phanteks pro atx full tower case $89.99-$15.00 mail rb free $ 74.99
power supply: evga500w 80+bronze certifies atx power supply $34.99-$5.00 mail rb free $ 29.99
optical drive: lg uh12ns30 Blu-ray reader,dvd/cd writer $ 39.99
os: micro office windows 10 home oem (64-bit) $95.49-$10.00 mail rb $ 85.49
software: micro office home and student2016 free $ 114.00
keyboard: gear head keyboard wired slim kb w/touchpad $32.99 $2.99 ship $ 35.98
wired network adapter:intel e1g42etblk 10/100/1000mbps pci-expressx4 #56.01 $3.99 ship $ 60.00
speakers:logiteck z200 ow 2ch speakers $ 24.89
base total $1246.97
mail in rebates -$ 70.00
shipping $ 9.97
total $1186.94
what do yall think :salute :cheers:
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I dont think you need 23 gigs of ram. 16 is plenty. use the extra money to buy a 970vc or a slightly bigger power supply.
semp
also you can use office libre or open office. both are free and do the same thing as msoffice.
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Here's is my suggestion of some modifications explained:
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/pgVkkL (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/pgVkkL)
CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($233.99 @ SuperBiiz) A little faster one which allows for overclocking, the price difference is nominal.
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($24.49 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($87.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($114.99 @ Newegg) Less RAM, but this has a lower latency i.e. it's faster.
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($48.77 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB SSC ACX 2.0+ Video Card ($308.99 @ NCIX US) As Guncrasher suggested, saving in RAM can be used for a better video card.
Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro ATX Full Tower Case ($84.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($78.99 @ SuperBiiz) Again as Guncrasher said, a slightly bigger power supply. This one is made by a reliable manufacturer and has some other advantages, too.
Optical Drive: LG UH12NS30 Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer ($39.89 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM (64-bit) ($85.49 @ OutletPC) It's your choice, who am I to argue.
Software: Microsoft Office Home and Student 2016 ($114.00 @ Adorama) As said, do you really need this or can you do with the free ones? Comparison here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Feature_Comparison:_LibreOffice_-_Microsoft_Office (https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Feature_Comparison:_LibreOffice_-_Microsoft_Office). You can also use older versions of Office if you already own one. 2007 and up should install to Win10 without issues.
Keyboard: Gear Head KBL5925W Wireless Standard Keyboard w/Laser Mouse ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Speakers: Logitech Z200 0W 2ch Speakers ($24.89 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $1287.45 A much more capable gaming rig for only $100 more! And if you can opt Office out, there's your $100.
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-04-14 07:54 EDT-0400
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I dont think you need 23 gigs of ram. 16 is plenty. use the extra money to buy a 970vc or a slightly bigger power supply.
semp
also you can use office libre or open office. both are free and do the same thing as msoffice.
:salute I don't need that much ram or the system don't need that much ram? in a 64gm system 32gm too much? im little confused about this point.
when I created this it said all I need was like 385w. that's why I got 500w. can you have too much power? what am I missing here?
so far as software don't matter. if I can get it free or just as good ok with me.
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Here's is my suggestion of some modifications explained:
PCPartPicker part list: http://.com/p/pgVkkL (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/pgVkkL)
CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($233.99 @ SuperBiiz) A little faster one which allows for overclocking, the price difference is nominal.
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($24.49 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($87.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($114.99 @ Newegg) Less RAM, but this has a lower latency i.e. it's faster.
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($48.77 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB SSC ACX 2.0+ Video Card ($308.99 @ NCIX US) As Guncrasher suggested, saving in RAM can be used for a better video card.
Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro ATX Full Tower Case ($84.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($78.99 @ SuperBiiz) Again as Guncrasher said, a slightly bigger power supply. This one is made by a reliable manufacturer and has some other advantages, too.
Optical Drive: LG UH12NS30 Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer ($39.89 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM (64-bit) ($85.49 @ OutletPC) It's your choice, who am I to argue.
Software: Microsoft Office Home and Student 2016 ($114.00 @ Adorama) As said, do you really need this or can you do with the free ones? Comparison here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Feature_Comparison:_LibreOffice_-_Microsoft_Office (https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Feature_Comparison:_LibreOffice_-_Microsoft_Office). You can also use older versions of Office if you already own one. 2007 and up should install to Win10 without issues.
Keyboard: Gear Head KBL5925W Wireless Standard Keyboard w/Laser Mouse ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Speakers: Logitech Z200 0W 2ch Speakers ($24.89 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $1287.45 A much more capable gaming rig for only $100 more! And if you can opt Office out, there's your $100.
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-04-14 07:54 EDT-0400
:salute thanks for the edited version I do like it better. but I blew my $800usd budget. so what to do what to do.
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:salute I don't need that much ram or the system don't need that much ram? in a 64gm system 32gm too much? im little confused about this point.
when I created this it said all I need was like 385w. that's why I got 500w. can you have too much power? what am I missing here?
so far as software don't matter. if I can get it free or just as good ok with me.
Most likely you don't need that much (32 GB) RAM. Unless you're going to do some serious video editing, that is. For Windows 10 Processor:1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster, RAM: 1 gigabyte (GB) for 32-bit or 2 GB for 64-bit are the official minimums. Note that those numbers are for Windows only, for anything else you'd like to run you need more. For enjoyably playing games like AH3 a multi core processor @ 3+ GHz and 8+ GB of RAM will perform well. There's a noticeable leap between 4 and 8 GB in the general feel, and probably also between 8 and 16 GB. Past that you most likely won't be able to tell any difference in everyday use. As said, there's memory intensive tasks such as video editing. Supposedly you would have mentioned if such tasks were on your to-do list.
Yes, you can have too much power. A good quality 500W should be enough for the GTX 960 you planned. The GTX 970 I suggested needs a little more, that's why I changed the PSU to 650 W. 600 W should also do.
Keep asking! :salute
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:salute thanks for the edited version I do like it better. but I blew my $800usd budget. so what to do what to do.
Oh, I took the price level from your original suggestion... Let's play with partpicker some more.
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Most likely you don't need that much (32 GB) RAM. Unless you're going to do some serious video editing, that is. For Windows 10 Processor:1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster, RAM: 1 gigabyte (GB) for 32-bit or 2 GB for 64-bit are the official minimums. Note that those numbers are for Windows only, for anything else you'd like to run you need more. For enjoyably playing games like AH3 a multi core processor @ 3+ GHz and 8+ GB of RAM will perform well. There's a noticeable leap between 4 and 8 GB in the general feel, and probably also between 8 and 16 GB. Past that you most likely won't be able to tell any difference in everyday use. As said, there's memory intensive tasks such as video editing. Supposedly you would have mentioned if such tasks were on your to-do list.
Yes, you can have too much power. A good quality 500W should be enough for the GTX 960 you planned. The GTX 970 I suggested needs a little more, that's why I changed the PSU to 650 W. 600 W should also do.
Keep asking! :salute
:salute ok just making sure I don't have too much. mainly its what skuzzy had said on another post. :cheers:
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This is basically the same as previously, with another case and cooler and a tad smaller power supply. And without Office:
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/YdWgYJ (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/YdWgYJ)
CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($233.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Gelid Solutions CC-Siberian-01 51.9 CFM CPU Cooler ($9.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($87.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($114.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($48.77 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB SSC ACX 2.0+ Video Card ($308.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Thermaltake VL80001W2Z ATX Mid Tower Case ($22.99 @ Micro Center)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 620W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($59.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: LG UH12NS30 Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer ($39.89 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM (64-bit) ($85.49 @ OutletPC)
Keyboard: Gear Head KBL5925W Wireless Standard Keyboard w/Laser Mouse ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Speakers: Logitech Z200 0W 2ch Speakers ($24.89 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $1077.84
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-04-14 13:45 EDT-0400
The next step would be cutting off some performance. A cheaper processor, a dual core i3-6320 @3.9 GHz would cut ~80 off. GTX 960 instead of 970 ~100. And a little smaller Seasonic PSU for ~20 less. That would be quite close to the $800 budget.
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I would keep the 970 if I where you.
It's the first thing you need to replace in a few years anyway ( if you play other modern games)
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This is basically the same as previously, with another case and cooler and a tad smaller power supply. And without Office:
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/YdWgYJ (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/YdWgYJ)
CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($233.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Gelid Solutions CC-Siberian-01 51.9 CFM CPU Cooler ($9.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($87.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($114.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($48.77 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB SSC ACX 2.0+ Video Card ($308.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Thermaltake VL80001W2Z ATX Mid Tower Case ($22.99 @ Micro Center)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 620W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($59.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: LG UH12NS30 Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer ($39.89 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM (64-bit) ($85.49 @ OutletPC)
Keyboard: Gear Head KBL5925W Wireless Standard Keyboard w/Laser Mouse ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Speakers: Logitech Z200 0W 2ch Speakers ($24.89 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $1077.84
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-04-14 13:45 EDT-0400
The next step would be cutting off some performance. A cheaper processor, a dual core i3-6320 @3.9 GHz would cut ~80 off. GTX 960 instead of 970 ~100. And a little smaller Seasonic PSU for ~20 less. That would be quite close to the $800 budget.
:salute had to change the case because the one you suggested had no front panel, so I substituted thermaltake versea h23 atx mid tower :cheers: think its a few dollars difference.
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I would keep the 970 if I where you.
It's the first thing you need to replace in a few years anyway ( if you play other modern games)
:salute thanks save well do :cheers:
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:salute had to change the case because the one you suggested had no front panel, so I substituted thermaltake versea h23 atx mid tower :cheers: think its a few dollars difference.
Good catch. I chose about the cheapest one, just trying to figure out if a long video card would fit in. That TT looks like a well breathing case.
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Good catch. I chose about the cheapest one, just trying to figure out if a long video card would fit in. That TT looks like a well breathing case.
:salute rgr that, morfiend brought that to my attention yesterday about air flow through the computer. (I always thought manufacturers would engineer that in) that and how many fans a case should be.
:salute :cheers:
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Heh, the airflow thing is as old as the idea of a gaming computer. Back when computer parts including cases were much more expensive, modding a case for improved airflow could be considered as a serious hobby and ghetto mods were also quite popular. I recall making an air duct for the CPU fan out of a milk carton, worked pretty well! Some guy told that modding cases was far less dangerous than modifying motorcycles which he had done earlier - something that his wife appreciated after several injuries.
As for airflow, the old basic rule still applies: Cool air in from the lower front end, hot air out from the upper rear.
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:salute I don't know if this is a wrinkle or not but. I read that the z170 chip set is not good over 2133mgh( something like that) and if that is true why get ddr4 3000 ram. yes I know your confused about every thing lol also msi and asus with the z170 chip sets which one has the most meat on it? :cheers:
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Most all Intel Z170 boards and 6th Gen Core ‘Skylake’ processors should be able to run DDR4 memory kits ranging in speed from 2133 MHz to 3200 MHz without issue, but getting beyond 3200 MHz might involve some tweaking
According to that it sounds funny that the lowest speed would be the only stable alternative.
As for the clock rate, a higher value won't have any major effect to your frame rate, but it can make the background processes run more fluently.
An overall rule of thumb seems to be that if you can afford spending $1000 to RAM, it's your choice. If not, you can be equally happy with nominally slower and much cheaper memory. Latency and a sufficient amount is more important than clock rate.
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I don't think that's what Intel meant when they said max memory speed supported (2133) in their specifications.
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According to that it sounds funny that the lowest speed would be the only stable alternative.
As for the clock rate, a higher value won't have any major effect to your frame rate, but it can make the background processes run more fluently.
An overall rule of thumb seems to be that if you can afford spending $1000 to RAM, it's your choice. If not, you can be equally happy with nominally slower and much cheaper memory. Latency and a sufficient amount is more important than clock rate.
:salute latency omg something else to study up :cheers:
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:salute latency omg something else to study up :cheers:
Latency is the time between the RAM receiving a request from the CPU until it delivers a response. Generally speaking, as RAM speed increases (the number of requests and responses the RAM can accept and deliver in a given amount of time) so does latency. RAM speed is more important than latency but if two RAM chips have the same speed with differing CAS latencies, the one with lower latency will be faster. There are many latency types but CAS latency is generally the only one you need to be concerned with.
Here's an article to check out: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/198894-raming-speed-does-boosting-ddr4-to-3200mhz-improve-overall-performance (http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/198894-raming-speed-does-boosting-ddr4-to-3200mhz-improve-overall-performance)
The first chart shows the RAM speed equivalents across generations while the second chart clearly shows that there's little to be gained in going beyond DDR4 2400, both of which I stated in an earlier post. That said DDR4 3200 does show a marginal gain over DDR4 2400 while DDR4 2133 is simply slow.
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A quick glimpse through the article gave me the impression that even latency isn't that important, which leaves the right amount as the most important factor.
Of course, if there's no price difference the fastest option sounds tempting. Or the most reliable? Or something in between?
bortas1, it's good to know about these things but they aren't crucial. According to studies an average computer user won't notice any difference if the computer is 20% slower or faster by numbers. That said the most important elements in planning a gaming computer is a decent CPU, a good video card, enough memory and a good quality power supply. Slight variations within each group may not even show a single frame more or less. More can be gained by optimizing Windows processes.
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Latency is the time between the RAM receiving a request from the CPU until it delivers a response. Generally speaking, as RAM speed increases (the number of requests and responses the RAM can accept and deliver in a given amount of time) so does latency. RAM speed is more important than latency but if two RAM chips have the same speed with differing CAS latencies, the one with lower latency will be faster. There are many latency types but CAS latency is generally the only one you need to be concerned with.
Here's an article to check out: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/198894-raming-speed-does-boosting-ddr4-to-3200mhz-improve-overall-performance (http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/198894-raming-speed-does-boosting-ddr4-to-3200mhz-improve-overall-performance)
The first chart shows the RAM speed equivalents across generations while the second chart clearly shows that there's little to be gained in going beyond DDR4 2400, both of which I stated in an earlier post. That said DDR4 3200 does show a marginal gain over DDR4 2400 while DDR4 2133 is simply slow.
:salute thank you for the article :cheers:
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A quick glimpse through the article gave me the impression that even latency isn't that important, which leaves the right amount as the most important factor.
Of course, if there's no price difference the fastest option sounds tempting. Or the most reliable? Or something in between?
bortas1, it's good to know about these things but they aren't crucial. According to studies an average computer user won't notice any difference if the computer is 20% slower or faster by numbers. That said the most important elements in planning a gaming computer is a decent CPU, a good video card, enough memory and a good quality power supply. Slight variations within each group may not even show a single frame more or less. More can be gained by optimizing Windows processes.
:salute ok rgr that :cheers:
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Just browsing threw the reviews on the Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3........ and looks like a lot of DOA boards from newegg . Just a heads up , not sure if its a manufacturing issue or people dont know what their doing when building them .
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Just browsing threw the reviews on the Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3........ and looks like a lot of DOA boards from newegg . Just a heads up , not sure if its a manufacturing issue or people dont know what their doing when building them .
:salute ok thanks for the heads up on that. I will see if I can find anything on it. :cheers:
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:salute ok what am I looking for when I look at motherboards? im not really sure what in supposed to be looking at when I review specs on them.
:cheers:
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:salute ok what am I looking for when I look at motherboards? im not really sure what in supposed to be looking at when I review specs on them.
:cheers:
So now you know you're planning a computer around a LGA1151 processor. As you've noticed there's several chipsets available. The most important thing to know is that only the Z170 allows for overclocking. If you don't plan to ever overclock your processor, you have more choices. More on the subject: http://www.xtremegaminerd.com/best-intel-lga-1151-motherboards-for-gaming/ (http://www.xtremegaminerd.com/best-intel-lga-1151-motherboards-for-gaming/) and https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Z170-H170-H110-B170-Q150-Q170---What-is-the-Difference-635/ (https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Z170-H170-H110-B170-Q150-Q170---What-is-the-Difference-635/)
Another thing to look for is the amount of RAM slots and the maximum RAM the motherboard can take. I suggest choosing one that can take up to four sticks and at least 32 GB.
And yet another thing is the amount of PCI-e 16x slots for video cards. If you think you'll never use more than one card, one slot is fine. As for now, in AH one high end card is a better performer than two mid-class ones.
As for the form, there's many sizes. Depending on the above, even a mini-ATX might do. However, if your case allows, a full size ATX has more space around the components which allows for better cooling. As you know, cool pretty much equals to longevity.
Yet a small detail: If the motherboard you choose has several sub-models, their performance is still similar. The more expensive variations have extra features like which often are unnecessary for basic use or gaming like ports for fancy and rare external storage devices or support for RAID or wireless networking etc. If you don't plan using them, don't pay for them. For example the Gigabyte GA-Z170-hd3 has three variations, one of which supports DDR3 instead of the newer DDR4. Such backwards compatibility would only pay if you already had a handful of the fastest DDR3 RAM sticks laying around.
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So now you know you're planning a computer around a LGA1151 processor. As you've noticed there's several chipsets available. The most important thing to know is that only the Z170 allows for overclocking. If you don't plan to ever overclock your processor, you have more choices. More on the subject: http://www.xtremegaminerd.com/best-intel-lga-1151-motherboards-for-gaming/ (http://www.xtremegaminerd.com/best-intel-lga-1151-motherboards-for-gaming/) and https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Z170-H170-H110-B170-Q150-Q170---What-is-the-Difference-635/ (https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Z170-H170-H110-B170-Q150-Q170---What-is-the-Difference-635/)
Another thing to look for is the amount of RAM slots and the maximum RAM the motherboard can take. I suggest choosing one that can take up to four sticks and at least 32 GB.
And yet another thing is the amount of PCI-e 16x slots for video cards. If you think you'll never use more than one card, one slot is fine. As for now, in AH one high end card is a better performer than two mid-class ones.
As for the form, there's many sizes. Depending on the above, even a mini-ATX might do. However, if your case allows, a full size ATX has more space around the components which allows for better cooling. As you know, cool pretty much equals to longevity.
Yet a small detail: If the motherboard you choose has several sub-models, their performance is still similar. The more expensive variations have extra features like which often are unnecessary for basic use or gaming like ports for fancy and rare external storage devices or support for RAID or wireless networking etc. If you don't plan using them, don't pay for them. For example the Gigabyte GA-Z170-hd3 has three variations, one of which supports DDR3 instead of the newer DDR4. Such backwards compatibility would only pay if you already had a handful of the fastest DDR3 RAM sticks laying around.
:salute that helps a lot thank you good reads too. one thing on ram sticks im not sure on. does the number determen how fast a ram speed is? I have seen 2400 and up. does the lower the number makes the ram faster?
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:salute how do you find out your fram rates on any computer? :cheers:
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The higher the GHz number the faster the RAM, basically. Think about it as the diameter of a tube: The bigger the tube the more water can go through it in a given time.
I said basically, because there's other factors affecting speed. Latency has already been mentioned here. Usually a faster type of RAM has a higher latency, the thing is to find a compromise where the higher latency slows the memory down less than the higher GHz speeds it. Continuing with the tubes, latency can be thought as the time you need to fill the tube to fully use its transporting capacity.
Frame rates are program specific as well as computer specific. As with any speed related value you need a program to run in several different computers to get a comparable value. That's what benchmarking is all about, running various tests and putting the results in a table. As you probably know you can see the current frame rate in AH by pressing Ctrl + i. Based on comments by HiTech, Skuzzy and other players we've been able to get an idea about how various computer layouts would perform in AH. Some of that information can be extrapolated to other games. Of course that works the other way round, too.
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The higher the GHz number the faster the RAM, basically. Think about it as the diameter of a tube: The bigger the tube the more water can go through it in a given time.
I said basically, because there's other factors affecting speed. Latency has already been mentioned here. Usually a faster type of RAM has a higher latency, the thing is to find a compromise where the higher latency slows the memory down less than the higher GHz speeds it. Continuing with the tubes, latency can be thought as the time you need to fill the tube to fully use its transporting capacity.
Frame rates are program specific as well as computer specific. As with any speed related value you need a program to run in several different computers to get a comparable value. That's what benchmarking is all about, running various tests and putting the results in a table. As you probably know you can see the current frame rate in AH by pressing Ctrl + i. Based on comments by HiTech, Skuzzy and other players we've been able to get an idea about how various computer layouts would perform in AH. Some of that information can be extrapolated to other games. Of course that works the other way round, too.
:salute that helps thank you. I was leaning towards the 17 6600k(me thinks) but further reading(mostly opinions ) alot of folks lean to the i5 6600k.
the 17 is 4.0ghz and i5 is 3.5ghz. well im still reading on all this mess so im still learning. mostly peoples opinions on all this stuff and the folks selling the stuff. hopefully I will eventually understand this stuff someday lol :cheers:
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Wanting to learn is a good thing.
However, building a decent computer for gaming or any other purpose isn't rocket science. If the components are compatible they usually work as expected and as I've previously said, a regular Joe won't notice minor differences in nominal speeds.
There's a bunch of questions one should answer while planning a new rig: What will be the toughest application to be run? What are the requirements for said application? Are there any known issues with some component running that application? What is your budget? If the answer to the first one is AH3, the second will be a multi core processor higher than 3 GHz plus a midrange to high end video card, the third is being suspicious about AMD processors because some models only can use one core for AH. Your budget is what forces you to make compromises, more or less. For $10,000 you can get a rig that can run anything at max, for $1,000 you can get a good balance between looks and speed, for $500 you'll have to lower your expectations a lot.
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Wanting to learn is a good thing.
However, building a decent computer for gaming or any other purpose isn't rocket science. If the components are compatible they usually work as expected and as I've previously said, a regular Joe won't notice minor differences in nominal speeds.
There's a bunch of questions one should answer while planning a new rig: What will be the toughest application to be run? What are the requirements for said application? Are there any known issues with some component running that application? What is your budget? If the answer to the first one is AH3, the second will be a multi core processor higher than 3 GHz plus a midrange to high end video card, the third is being suspicious about AMD processors because some models only can use one core for AH. Your budget is what forces you to make compromises, more or less. For $10,000 you can get a rig that can run anything at max, for $1,000 you can get a good balance between looks and speed, for $500 you'll have to lower your expectations a lot.
:salute well im not trying to be a rocket scientist, just trying to make the best decision possible for me. just don't want to jump into anything that I may regret later. trying to see all my options. and there are a lot.
anyhow thank you all for the help. your my best source for what is out there. and I trust your knowledge and opinions.
:salute :cheers:
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:salute ok I decided not to build it myself. im going with an outfit that builds the computers and have great warranties. I have a few to chose from so I will let yall know which one I go with.
again thank you for your input it means a lot to me.
:salute :cheers:
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:salute looks like I'm may go with ether maingear or digital storm I like there warrenties and other things they are offering.
:salute :cheers:
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:salute looks like I'm may go with ether maingear or digital storm I like there warrenties and other things they are offering.
:salute :cheers:
Letting someone else build your computer is a very good alternative as long as you can say which brand and flavour of each component you want to have. And as long as their price is worth the easiness both in warranty and effort.