Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Open Beta Test => Topic started by: bustr on April 18, 2016, 01:41:20 PM
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Spent the last hour looking at tracers and hit sprites for some fighters.
Disclaimer, this does not work as well for some planes as it does for other planes. It also over brightens many surfaces.
Beta 17 to increase visibility of tracers and hit sprites.
1. - Use .sliders , then the top slider stdshps, push to max of 4.00.
2. - Set gamma 1.4.
3. - Found you have to repeat the .sliders with some planes by hitting default then sliding it over to 4.00 after you spawn out in it.
4. - Helped increase the vibrancy of hit sprites when shooting from some planes.
5. - Helped some small bit with the general darkening effect the ocean has on anything you look at while it is the back ground.
6. - Will cause bare metal paint schemes to be harder to see hit sprites unless zoomed or inside 200.
7. - Increasing the stdshps slider to 4.00 stopped the black 2D square appearing when the b17, b24 and sometimes the a20 first exploded.
In most planes this gives you the big white smoke traces and brighter tracer flame viewed through the gunsight reflector plate when not zoomed. The best were either the Mossi6 or 262, then wing mounted .50cal. The best hit sprites were from the P51D and the F4u family and F6f. Spits were not too bad but the Tiffy just didn't respond while it's hit sprites were few to none while planes died from the rounds. Luft planes middling. The worst hit sprites came from the Japanese fighter stable and C.202\5 along with visible tracers. I thought the cannon rounds in general would give the best hit sprites. I did not test every single plane, just a country sampling.
The MK108 30mm and german 20mm if pure HE round, are packed with an explosive that explodes with a burn of 1300C which is why gun cam films show such large flashes. Most HE content explodes brightly if it surface detonates or at least a visible out gassing with small debris from an internal explosion in a wing section. AP\HE punches a hole with more of a response like a .50cal. Early cannon spits used a solid bronze training round until various other rounds became available.
Observations about the gunsights themselves.
1. - The best tracer view response came from the reflector plates that had only a single glass plate and the lightest mask applied by Waffle.
2. - The Japanese Type98 in the a6m family needs to loose the sun shade. Very few pilots ever used those things in combat because they killed the view through the reflector plate just like in our a6m family.
3. - The Type3 in the K84 needs to loose the half slid down sunshade because it blocks half the view hole. Sunshades were either up or down.
4. - The PBP1 in the Russian fighters has a crappy tracer and hit sprite dimming mask. Didn't look at the I16.
5. - In general all of the masks for all of the fighter gunsights, even bomber gunsights need to be lightened by half of what they are now. They dim the tracers and their targets in the beta.
Observations on FoV and hit sprites.
1. - If you zoom to make a 100Mil ring 50mm or set your FoV to 60. Hit sprites are very visible 600 and closer generally to real life.
2. - FoV 100 and higher will shrink hit sprites proportionally along with seemingly their brilliance unless you are 200 and closer, not using zoom.
3. - If you are hitting a con with a steady stream you will get hit sprites. The random one or two that many are looking for to help them correct their aim may not show sprites. Or their custom FoV has shrunk everything to the point they may not see most of their hit sprites unless they have their bullet stream concentrated on one spot on their con.
I have to apologize. I've been doing the testing of new gunsights I'm building that I have not been watching the tracers. In the drone circle it is very easy to hit the drones causing a large amount of sprite activity from the first rounds on target. I also thought Hitech would tweek this one more time before going live.
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Spent the last hour looking at tracers and hit sprites for some fighters.
Disclaimer, this does not work as well for some planes as it does for other planes. It also over brightens many surfaces.
Beta 17 to increase visibility of tracers and hit sprites.
1. - Use .sliders , then the top slider stdshps, push to max of 4.00.
2. - Set gamma 1.4.
3. - Found you have to repeat the .sliders with some planes by hitting default then sliding it over to 4.00 after you spawn out in it.
4. - Helped increase the vibrancy of hit sprites when shooting from some planes.
5. - Helped some small bit with the general darkening effect the ocean has on anything you look at while it is the back ground.
6. - Will cause bare metal paint schemes to be harder to see hit sprites unless zoomed or inside 200.
7. - Increasing the stdshps slider to 4.00 stopped the black 2D square appearing when the b17, b24 and sometimes the a20 first exploded.
In most planes this gives you the big white smoke traces and brighter tracer flame viewed through the gunsight reflector plate when not zoomed. The best were either the Mossi6 or 262, then wing mounted .50cal. The best hit sprites were from the P51D and the F4u family and F6f. Spits were not too bad but the Tiffy just didn't respond while it's hit sprites were few to none while planes died from the rounds. Luft planes middling. The worst hit sprites came from the Japanese fighter stable and C.202\5 along with visible tracers. I thought the cannon rounds in general would give the best hit sprites. I did not test every single plane, just a country sampling.
The MK108 30mm and german 20mm if pure HE round, are packed with an explosive that explodes with a burn of 1300C which is why gun cam films show such large flashes. Most HE content explodes brightly if it surface detonates or at least a visible out gassing with small debris from an internal explosion in a wing section. AP\HE punches a hole with more of a response like a .50cal. Early cannon spits used a solid bronze training round until various other rounds became available.
Observations about the gunsights themselves.
1. - The best tracer view response came from the reflector plates that had only a single glass plate and the lightest mask applied by Waffle.
2. - The Japanese Type98 in the a6m family needs to loose the sun shade. Very few pilots ever used those things in combat because they killed the view through the reflector plate just like in our a6m family.
3. - The Type3 in the K84 needs to loose the half slid down sunshade because it blocks half the view hole. Sunshades were either up or down.
4. - The PBP1 in the Russian fighters has a crappy tracer and hit sprite dimming mask. Didn't look at the I16.
5. - In general all of the masks for all of the fighter gunsights, even bomber gunsights need to be lightened by half of what they are now. They dim the tracers and their targets in the beta.
Observations on FoV and hit sprites.
1. - If you zoom to make a 100Mil ring 50mm or set your FoV to 60. Hit sprites are very visible 600 and closer generally to real life.
2. - FoV 100 and higher will shrink hit sprites proportionally along with seemingly their brilliance unless you are 200 and closer, not using zoom.
3. - If you are hitting a con with a steady stream you will get hit sprites. The random one or two that many are looking for to help them correct their aim may not show sprites. Or their custom FoV has shrunk everything to the point they may not see most of their hit sprites unless they have their bullet stream concentrated on one spot on their con.
I have to apologize. I've been doing the testing of new gunsights I'm building that I have not been watching the tracers. In the drone circle it is very easy to hit the drones causing a large amount of sprite activity from the first rounds on target. I also thought Hitech would tweek this one more time before going live.
I've looked at what most of the tracers the guns shoot....look fine the way they are IMO...more then fine, think they look better then most games honestly.
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I'll try those settings and see the effects. I'm not really worried one way or the other, like I said I'm fine with the effects now, they ARE absolutely different though, which is why I've posted and taken screen shots/etc. Some will want it like AH2, some like myself/Junky/etc won't care or will like the new ones better. Screen size, graphics card type, resolution played at, so many factors before you even GET to the game settings which could be affecting this.
All I know is that the screen shots I"ve taken from a myriad of types while on the runway look precisely like the AH2 tracers, where as once airborne, the smoke trails and size of the flying dots drastically changes, and the pics are proof of this, films as well.
I don't really understand how the field of view is affecting the size of the tracers, I understand that it does, just not how or why. I'd much prefer to be at 100, 106, even 120, than 80, or definitely 60 which is awful to fly at IMO, and since 106 was the standard FOV forever with AH, I would figure that the tracers/sprites for hits/etc would be optimized for that FOV, not 60 which is going to be a very unpopular FOV setting.
If it stays how it is, I'm not fussed about it, I've already adjusted just shooting drones, and really noticed how much different/larger they are in AH2 after going back to that after a few days of just shooting constantly in AH3beta. I will go on record saying that if it stays as is, a LOT of guys will complain, and the ability to hit the enemy is going to take a massive nose dive in the MA - which isn't necessarily a bad thing, perhaps it's more realistic, or better for gameplay, maybe both, who knows. They sure look better though IMO in terms of appearance and not the size issue. The hit sprites/flashes are great when you see them up close or zoomed at the right amount.
Appreciate the effort Bustr, IMO this will be the number one complaint/issue for new players once they get the beta running on their systems - how the tracers and shooting work/look, so this thread and others will be important then.
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The mask on the reflector plates needs to be lightened and the sun screen needs to be removed form the Type 98 and the Type 3. That will alleviate some of the tracers issues. The mask on the reflector plates is too dark and acts as a sunscreen in itself. The view through the reflector plate should be clear because all gunsight reflector plates were made of optically clear glass. The exception was early Russian reflector plates that were poorly made.
Since using the .sliders stdshps slider at max brings back the tracer smoke trails, that is a Hitech thing to look into.
The spits 9 - 14 had green tinted bullet proof glass mounted on the inside of the windscreen as a compromise to sunscreens. After the BoB when the MKII gunsight was changed to a square reflector plate and no sunscreen, until late model spitV began getting the bullet proof glass mounted on the inside, there was a pull up sheet of tinted glass from behind the instrument panel. The early round glass MKII had a round tinted sunscreen that could be pivoted out of the way. Pilots didn't like or use it. The bullet proof glass would be about the same green color as the top edge of the gunsight reflector plate in the AH2 La7. It would have to have a green self glow effect to duplicate the sun passing through it while looking at the AH3 world, and it would tint everything green you looked at.
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I tried those settings, the sliders and pushing gamma up to 1.4, it had no effect on the tracers, smoke trails, or hit sprites for me. I had been experimenting with shadows "off", and when doing so, gamma at 1.4 and the other setting at 4.0 - it whites everything out so bad it's like staring into a flashlight, you can't see the convergence lines in the hangar, and buildings look a blinding white, so no go on combining any of these with shadows OFF. Shadows ON, it's easy to see the effects, but again, zip difference on the tracers.
Conditions where the tracer lines are all but invisible when airborne, when you hit f3 and go outside, you CAN see them, bright as day, but in the cockpit, they are absolutely not there, I've filmed this to show the effect, and then taken the identical plane in AH2 offline and recreated the test, and the difference is pretty huge. Again, I don't specifically mind, as I think it'll add a whole new interesting dimension to aerial gunnery in the game, making it MUCH more difficult to be accurate, but I'm still concerned it's going to be a possibly negative issue with a whole pile of players when the 1.0 day comes if they look and function as is. I said before that I think there will be a swath of complaints about not being able to hit anything, rubber bullets, my tracers don't work, wah, etc and etc.
One thing of note, IMO those who zoom a lot when they shoot (I'm a perpetual zoomer, I have to fight to make myself NOT zoom in at ranges like 300 or less) are going to see more of these "issues", or "features" depending on your point of view I guess. When zooming the tracers are much different than AH2 as described in all the previous posts I've made, at least on my systems with various settings and resolutions tested. When NOT zoomed, the effects changes aren't nearly as noticeable.
It'll all work out, again, I'm not the least bit fussed myself, just interested, and again, think that the masses are IMO going to complain. Shooting accurately and being able to make wide angle deflection shots is such a huge part of the game that experience is greatly responsible for, and I've found that I've had to make enough adjustments in AH3beta that it's almost been like starting over for me. Again, not a bad thing, it's actually been a lot of fun offline figuring out what works best for me - again, it's absolutely different on my setup, regardless of what settings changed both in game, NCP, or on the Asus monitor settings.
I did set my K4 convergence to 650 to practice some long range tater lobs, WOW can you really see the arc and trajectory difference now compared to AH2, I filmed a bunch of that at 1440p too, pretty cool beans. This beta offline experience has really been burning a whole in my pocket, waiting for the 1.0 version day. I'm betting we see some 400 player nights in the first week, and more from there.
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You know the pass through tube in the DB605 engine was fixed in place and the MK108 round began dropping the moment it left the tip of the spinner? You should fly level at 295-297IAS, pull up the target at 325 and tap a few rounds. The center line of the target will be just about level with the center line of the engine. Each ring of the target is 10ft. See how many feet above the engine line the rounds hit at 325 with your convergence set to 650. Your rounds will hit almost 10ft above the engine line which really means your engine should have exploded from the round detonating in the tube.
You can pull the alt\speed display down unto your gunsight to help you tweek the K4 to 295-297IAS. Only tap a few rounds because the blast from sustained fire will slow your forward momentum raising your AoA.
I set mine at 150-175 which keeps within the spirit of the reality of the very crappy dispersion of the MK108. No engine mounted cannon in ww2 could have it's pitch angle set to alter the ballistic path of it's round. The rounds ballistic path was determined by the center line of the engine through the prop HUB.
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I never fly in game at 650, typically around 200 or 175 as well. I'll try your suggested tests today with the beta and see what happens.
Any round from any barrel starts dropping the moment it leaves the barrel, the "loft" is just an effect based on where the sights are zeroed, which then affects the elevation the barrel has at various ranges. Gravity always, always effects every round, unless the round has some sort of fin stabilizer which generates lift, which few do. From 500 fps muzzle loaders to 5000 fps sabot rounds, they are all dropping as soon as they are flying on their own, it's just the perception of "loft/etc" the eyes get based on the sight to barrel elevation/depression deal - I realize you know this btw. The effects seen in particular with the center-line mounted weapons in AH is fun to mess with IMO.
I didn't know that the elevation of centerline WW2 cannons couldn't be altered - is that true for not just L/W but for planes like the P38/P39 and so on? I guess the P38 doesn't have a motor the guns are going through, so probably they could be messed with I'm guessing now that I think about it. Edit - I guess the P39 as well, hah, keep forgetting that it has the motor in a weird spot too.
I wonder how accurate the installation of the L/W 109 motorkannon had to be from the factory, if it can't be adjusted really, accuracy would much depend on how it's finally put together I would think.
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All fighters that had a cannon mounted to shoot through the prop HUB were locked inline with the center line of the engine. Or in the case of the P39, inline to the centerline that ran through the prop hub and parallel to the drive shaft. You wanted the recoil of the cannon inline with the centerline.
You can do a search in the wish list on my name and find an in depth wish full of pictures and data. The 109 family and Ta152, the IP harmonization of the Revi to the MG151\20 or MK108 motor cannon was set to look down to a point at 400m. In the case of the Yaks the 20mm dropped about 3 inches at 200m and the NS-37 about the same. That is why on the back of props there was a 200m mark to align your PBP1 reticle center to.
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bustr, I revisited DSR + SLI today. On a 1920x1080 monitor I can push SLI to do DSR at 4k (3840x2160@60fps) and the view is absolutely beautiful. I can see why someone might want to set their system up like this and play games. The only problem is that the tracers from tanks are gone beyond about 3k. So, if you are shooting long range you will never see where your rounds hit. It gets a little better if you leave AA off, but conventional thinking is that people want AA to make their games look better. I know that with DSR you don't need AA, but not everyone will pick up on that.
Anyway, what I was trying to do is downscale a 4k monitor to run at HD settings (1080p60) and still get the 4k look. Unfortunately, the GPUs have to work too hard to do this even with SLI. It looks great at 1080p, but the tracers are just gone.
I wish you could try it so you could see what gamma does for that situation.
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I've looked at what most of the tracers the guns shoot....look fine the way they are IMO...more then fine, think they look better then most games honestly.
Yep
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Chalenge,
Fly level, then hold down on the trigger and do full slow sweeps of your rudder. This will spray tracers so you can see them out of the front quarter panels. You notice they are fine. It is only looking through the mask Waffle has applied to the view area for the bitmap file we call the gunsight, or the reflector plate glass. It is way too dark and should be "optically clear". Most of this would be cleared up in fighters if Waffle went for optically clear, and the two cases where the sun shade has been flipped up full or halfway, they should be removed like Waffle did for the Revi16.
The issue with cannon rounds from tanks, I have it sometimes and sometimes not. On zoom and un-zoomed at the 4 mile tank range on my gunnery terrain, I can see the tracer out to 4 miles.
It is possible now smaller monitors will have better results with tracers unless Hitech revisits the whole thing.
Below is probably the slightly gray effect Waffle is going for but ending up placing a sun filter on the clear glass instead.
(http://www.aircraft-gunsights.com/wp-content/gallery/mark-20-af/173673.jpg)
From the cockpit of a spitfire around 1941 during a gun harmonization session. Even with old BW flim you can see how optically clear the reflector plate glass is.
(http://s20.postimg.org/41x4iwtn1/MKIIHarmoniz.jpg)
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Yeah, I don't have a problem with the airplanes. In fact, I don't use tracers there.
Tanks I should be able to see the tracer all the way to impact, even if that impact is 30,000 feet away (10k). I can see it that far at 1080p, but if I squeeze 4k onto 1080p by using DSR, then the tracer disappears (really it is there, but impossible to see). On a 4k screen at 4k it is possible to see, though it is very tiny. If I use DSR and push 8k onto a 4k screen, then it's back to being impossible to see. Is it realistic to see a 75mm tracer at 6 miles? I think so. .50 cal? No, I think the game is accurate that far.
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I decided this morning that I would provide a side-by-side comparison, so that you can see what I see. I'll do that after lunch, because I have a video uploading at the moment.
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I don't mess with dynamic superduper res, but I do have 1440p and 4k monitors, and can attest to the fact that the higher the res goes over 1080p, the smaller/tougher the tracers are to see, both the dot/flare and the smoke trail. They are very tough to pick up at 1440p on a 27" monitor, I can't imagine on a larger panel at 4k/DSR them being anything but nearly invisible right now. Tracers off will be a popular option I think, for higher res players.
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If there is a monitor size and\or resolution component to this, maybe Hitech can scale the tracers and other issues to the resolution detected by the game. The default mask to make the impression of glass for the reflector plate is too dark. Making that more transparent will clear up some of this.
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bustr, has the method for changing sights changed? Not happy with the happy face on the P-51 sight and want my dot-of-death back.
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Kind of sounds like a runaround to make something look right... that should just look right...
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Bah! There's probably nothing different about the resolutions. I went online to test this just as the host was reset, but I found what I think is the issue. The offline server settings are different. I think it is harder to see the tracers offline to be sure. You can see what I mean in the attached screenshots (side-by-side comparison). Both images are of the same field. I prefer the DSR image on the right.
Is there a way to copy the server settings so you can match them offline?
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bustr, has the method for changing sights changed? Not happy with the happy face on the P-51 sight and want my dot-of-death back.
Nevermind, got it already.
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bustr, has the method for changing sights changed? Not happy with the happy face on the P-51 sight and want my dot-of-death back.
The smiley face is historically correct as the fixed 100Mil reticle for the K14A. That is as far out in left field in another galaxy as my responsibility for the gunsight app itself extends. I suspect you tried your old dot and it showed fine for you. The historic pack does have an orange dot for the Tempest and a cross only for the K14.
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Bah! There's probably nothing different about the resolutions. I went online to test this just as the host was reset, but I found what I think is the issue. The offline server settings are different. I think it is harder to see the tracers offline to be sure. You can see what I mean in the attached screenshots (side-by-side comparison). Both images are of the same field. I prefer the DSR image on the right.
Is there a way to copy the server settings so you can match them offline?
Looks like a smoggy day and a clear day over the L.A. basin.
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Everyone,
Try the Tempest offline with the orange dot reticle. You will see your tracers because the windscreen is rendered optically clear like the reflector plate glass should be. That reflection from the effects mask file (GSITEFX1.bmp) of the projector barrel and lens should not be as pronounced. As you increase your FoV and shrink your reflector plate, it gets darker. If you are shooting into the direction of the sun as it illuminates your drone, the tracers will wash out or disappear until your angle to the sun while firing is more off to either side.
Some of the disappearing fighter tracers can be cleared up by making the gunsight reflector plate much more clear.
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Yeah, I don't have a problem with the airplanes. In fact, I don't use tracers there.
Tanks I should be able to see the tracer all the way to impact, even if that impact is 30,000 feet away (10k). I can see it that far at 1080p, but if I squeeze 4k onto 1080p by using DSR, then the tracer disappears (really it is there, but impossible to see). On a 4k screen at 4k it is possible to see, though it is very tiny. If I use DSR and push 8k onto a 4k screen, then it's back to being impossible to see. Is it realistic to see a 75mm tracer at 6 miles? I think so. .50 cal? No, I think the game is accurate that far.
Can you state this in layman's terms for the technically less astute like me. Last night I was in AH 3 at a base being shelled by two tanks and couldn't see any shell tracks at all. The directionality (new word?) of the sound seems off also. I've posted that before. A tank at my 12 o'clock sounds like it's at my 9 or 10 O'clock. Between the sound issue and the invisible shell tracks it's extremely hard to tell where the enemy tanks are. I'd like to know what settings, if any, will help.
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Have you tried disabling post lighting effects to see if that gives you back the tank round tracers?
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Can you state this in layman's terms for the technically less astute like me. Last night I was in AH 3 at a base being shelled by two tanks and couldn't see any shell tracks at all. The directionality (new word?) of the sound seems off also. I've posted that before. A tank at my 12 o'clock sounds like it's at my 9 or 10 O'clock. Between the sound issue and the invisible shell tracks it's extremely hard to tell where the enemy tanks are. I'd like to know what settings, if any, will help.
DSR is a method by which your video card can render the view at up to four times your native resolution. The problem is it goes by your native resolution, and it is hard (computationally intensive) for your GPU to do that. Your monitors native resolution is the stated resolution at which your monitor works best, or its intended resolution. Nvidia video cards are configured to work best at 1920x1080, so you would be best off to use a monitor that has a native resolution of 1920x1080 (1080p). The 'p' in 1080p stands for progressive scan. Progressive scan means it draws from the upper left of your monitor screen to the lower right one line at a time to completion. The alternative would be 'I,' or interlaced scan, which is more like your television (odd lines, then even, then odd, . . .).
Anyway, DSR is setup on the Global settings tab of the Nvidia Control Panel. It will allow you to use anything from 1.25 to 4.0 times your native resolution. So, if you have a native resolution of 1080p, then it will allow your game to use up to four times that resolution, or 3840x2160p (4k). This is ultra high definition (UHD). Before you try it just let me tell you about my system. I have an X99 with 32GB RAM and two GTX 980s in SLI. I can run 4k straight up at 60fps without a sweat. I cannot run four times that (I can, but it drops to 13fps and lower). However, I can set my monitor to 1080p (not a good thing really to run a 4k monitor at HD resolution) and then set DSR to 4k (this is done by changing the resolution of AH3 to 3840x2160). I get 4k resolution that way, and I can record to an Elgato that has a maximum resolution of 1080p. The only problem is that doing it this way the tank tracers get to be hard to see, and my video cards are really working too hard and I do not get 60 fps (more like 50fps).
When Pascal is released I will be running DSR in one way or another, because you can turn off Anti-aliasing altogether and still have a really nice image already. I'm hoping Pascal will allow us to use every thing together (16k DSR, x16 SLI AA, 4096 textures, shadows, and environment).
I can show you how this is done in detail if you need to know more.
@bustr, I already have tried that. It makes terrain brighter but makes no changes to tracers that I can see.
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I tried long ago shooting beside the reflector sight, in fact I often move and save my position in various planes to the right or left of the site and just use the built in gunsight that comes with the Asus ROG gaming monitors. It has little effect on my end in brightening up or changing the tracer effects, the overall sky around that bit of area is obviously a bit brighter due to not looking through the sight, but the tracers are still very hard to see, as are the smoke trails, compared to AH2. I don't think that just changing the darkness of the gunsight glass is going to have much overall effect IMO.
@bustr, I already have tried that. It makes terrain brighter but makes no changes to tracers that I can see.
My experience as well with every trick Bustr has labored to figure out, at least on my end.
It's directly to do with the tracer/hit sprite graphics/animation/whatever you call it/etc themselves, not the brightness of the overall clipboard settings or the darkness of the reflector sight glass, IMO. Again, just IMO, but I've tried with 3 different very common high end gaming LCDs in the 27/28" size class, and tried every brightness setting/trick Bustr has gone to the trouble of figuring out, in addition to every brightness/gamma/etc setting on the LCD control panel and desktop. Based on film/shots and a lot of time spent looking at them in real time, nothing really has a major effect on making the AH3 beta tracers look more AH2-ish. They are absolutely smaller and harder to see regardless of what steps available now are taken. For better or worse...
Like I've said, I'm not fussed, and think it could add a new dimension to shooting, requiring the target to be closer and able to dodge incoming fire more easily in the air on the defense, but just wait until the entire arena is in 1.0, I'll bet the farm that the tracers/sprites are the #1 complaint once everyone gets the game working. The game is about shooting stuff, for the most part, and that has been...maybe not drastically changed, but certainly has changed enough to have to work at it much harder now.
I don't GV, but I take Chalenges word for it regarding similar issues with the tank gun rounds.
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The smiley face is historically correct as the fixed 100Mil reticle for the K14A. That is as far out in left field in another galaxy as my responsibility for the gunsight app itself extends. I suspect you tried your old dot and it showed fine for you. The historic pack does have an orange dot for the Tempest and a cross only for the K14.
I just took the K14 star pattern sight, saved it as p51-dod and deleted the outer markers. Then I modified the palette to change the blue color for a brighter green. Depending on my experiences I may modify it later, but it works as is.
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@Condor, I went looking for your DXDiag and could not find it. What sound card are you using?
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I'm working on some brite versions of the historic pack that will use the post lighting when the alpha slider is set to full. Try these two, K14 cross, Tempest dot.
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@Condor, I went looking for your DXDiag and could not find it. What sound card are you using?
My DxDiag is attached. As far as graphics and monitor goes you will see I have a Radeon HD9650 which struggles a little in AH3. No hope for using default settings. My monitor is an ASUS PA248Q with a native resolution of 1920X1200. I also have an ASUS V247H-P with a native resolution of 1920x1080 that I don't use with my gaming computer but easily could if it would be a better choice. My video settings in AH3 are 1920x1200 with a max texture size of 4096 and FOV of 100. My video card settings are application specified with the exception of tesselation which set at AMD optimized (I think Pudgie recommended that in another thread. May have been Skuzzy.)
My sound card is a Creative SB X-Fi that I pulled out of the XP machine I built 7 or 8 years ago. I don't recall if I updated drivers when I installed it. I will revisit that. I have asked a couple of others that I encountered in AH3 who said they noticed the same issue with the directionality of the sounds.
I appreciate all the help you have given. I'm a microbiologist, not a computer tech guy. I thought I knew something about this but I'm way out of my depth. If you have any microbiology questions fire away.
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My DxDiag is attached.
No, it isn't! Hehe
Not all X-Fi cards have the 3D positional processing. The Sound Blaster Z series does. I'm not telling you to go out and buy one, because if there is a bug or something and 3D positions are not working right now then that would be unproductive. However, I just spent a few hours online in the beta arena and I was locating other players very easily. There could be other reasons for what you are reporting, try recording something and sharing the film with us, so we can repeat what you are seeing (not hearing)? All I got.
I am hoping that there is something new causing the difference, but that there is a valid reason for it. I know if players encounter something that is not in line with their own experiences they sometimes consider it to be wrong right away, whereas in fact it might just be more accurate but also outside of their experience.
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Whoops. Forgot to attach it. Here it is.
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My sound card is the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer if that tells you anything. Bought it in March 2008.
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I am familiar with that sound card. I don't believe it has any 3D processing capabilities.
You might turn on automatic film recordings and if you run into the issue again share it with us. Unless Hitech speaks up and tells us different.
You want to run your monitor at native resolution, so you're good there. GPUs are optimized for 1080p, but I doubt 1200 is going to make that much difference. I have not had a Radeon card ever, so . . .
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Any chance he is getting conflicts with this slot in card host controller?
Etron USB 3.0 Extensible Host Controller
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I have heard of sound card and video card conflicts, and sound card and network card conflicts, but never a USB controller and sound card conflict. I guess it could happen, but then he would be reporting sound buffer type problems. I don't think that 3D processing is part of that.
It would be easy enough to open device manager and look for the yellow indicators.
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No yellow exclamation points in device manager.
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I think you would know anyway, because the sound would have stopped cold by now.
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I worked for Media Vision in the dinosaur days of sound cards when we were neck and neck with SB's market share. I've seen it all. If his 3D processing is onboard the soundcard, it can be conflicted with. His sound card is antiquated at this point while his USB3 card is probably the newest part of his PC. The simplest test is to pull the USB3 card out and see if the 3D EFX problems go away. At this point in all of this trouble shooting for him, it's down to pulling hardware. Or if he can get his hands on another sound card.......
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I don't know how to answer that, except to say that I don't think it's the right path to go. It's not a conflict that he is reporting, but inaccurate 3D results of his audio. The Extreme Fidelity models have very good sound, but I think that the low end models had some functions neutered. I just don't know which models those were. I had used one model years ago, the switched to the Fatality series, now the ZxR, and I even have another X-Fi (the 5.1 Surround USB DAC) and they all work great compared to the older ExtremeGamer model (I think it was). The problem for me, though, was Windows Vista which was Microsoft's original attempt to rewrite DirectX. Now they're trying it again and I think that between what we are seeing in AH3 and some of the 3D audio reports is that some of the updates being pushed to Windows 7 might be fouling things up. No proof though, just a gut feeling.
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Can't pull the USB 3 card out because there is none. There are only two cards in the computer; sound and video. All USB ports are on the motherboard.
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Have you got something like a monitor, keyboard, or anything else with a USB port built in?
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Yes. USB 3.0 ports in monitor and I am using one of them. Don't really need it if it's a problem. I can disconnect the USB cable to the monitor.
Another question. Why am I experiencing this only in AH3 but not AH2 if it's a sound card issue?
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Shallenge, Is this the sound card you're using?
http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Blaster-Audiophile-Performance-Headphone/dp/B00AQ5PK6I?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0
It appears the X-Fi extreme gamer I have offers 3Dprocessing. I found several old eviews that say it has CMSS-3D technology. I use it with a a Logitech X-540 5.1 speaker system and seemed to have good 3d surround sound with my old XP system. It may be an issue with the Windows 7 drivers. Need to work with that a little.
If I need a new card it looks like this one is the least expensive that offers 3D processing. http://www.amazon.com/Blaster-Performance-Headphone-Forming-Microphone/dp/B009ISU33E?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0
I'm not ready to buy anything yet. Just considering my options. My first priority will probably be a video card upgrade.
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Who's Shallenge? ;)
Yes that's the card I use. You don't need it unless you are doing sound editing, generally speaking. The Z that you listed at the end of your post is a great card.
Yeah, the reason I am on the fence about your card is that some of those cards use software processing instead of a dedicated processor for 3D positioning. CMSS-3D can be either a physically present processor, or software. I have a X-Fi external DAC that does the same thing. What it offers though is the ability to plug it into a computer without having to do surgery, and then having right/left RCA inputs but lacks ASIO. ASIO is important for reducing lag. Sound Blaster makes some external DACs that also offer Core 3D processors, but they run $350-$500.
The difference in software and hardware 3D positioning is precisely what you have mentioned, which is inaccurate results. Another indication is lag in heavy traffic locations while playing AH2 (I haven't seen enough traffic in AH3 to know about it). The ZxR will not have that problem, nor will the Z. I have heard that the Zx has reduced quality, but I don't why it would.
The new Z, Zx, and ZxR use SBX, which is a marriage of an improved THX and CMSS-3D. For the money the Z is the best bang for buck, especially for games that use 3D positioning to the extent that AH does.
There is a huge difference between XP and the way every Windows release since has handled audio. Basically, the way I look at it the Extreme Gamer cards died when Vista came out. They're not junk, because they can still produce really nice audio. They just don't measure up to AH, especially in ground vehicles and now with Windows 10 I think they may be not very useful at all. It's impossible to be sure through rumors, and anecdotal experiences, so I haven't told you to bin them yet.
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Yes. USB 3.0 ports in monitor and I am using one of them. Don't really need it if it's a problem. I can disconnect the USB cable to the monitor.
Another question. Why am I experiencing this only in AH3 but not AH2 if it's a sound card issue?
Until hitech or Skuzzy tell us more about AH3 I don't think anyone but they can tell us why you are experiencing what you are.
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Kind of sounds like a runaround to make something look right... that should just look right...
Reading all these comments and then taking a look for myself....yep your right.
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Shallenge, Is this the sound card you're using?
http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Blaster-Audiophile-Performance-Headphone/dp/B00AQ5PK6I?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0
It appears the X-Fi extreme gamer I have offers 3Dprocessing. I found several old eviews that say it has CMSS-3D technology. I use it with a a Logitech X-540 5.1 speaker system and seemed to have good 3d surround sound with my old XP system. It may be an issue with the Windows 7 drivers. Need to work with that a little.
If I need a new card it looks like this one is the least expensive that offers 3D processing. http://www.amazon.com/Blaster-Performance-Headphone-Forming-Microphone/dp/B009ISU33E?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0
I'm not ready to buy anything yet. Just considering my options. My first priority will probably be a video card upgrade.
Hi Condor,
On the sound card you're using, it will sound different w\ 3D sound positioning in Win XP vs Win 7 due to Win XP having Directx's DirectSoundAPI being embedded in Win XP in which Directx could do 3D sound positioning using the sound card's DSP (data signal processor) but since MS Vista the basic sound processing core was changed in the OS to WDDM 1.x and this change rendered Directx's DirectSoundAPI obsolete so any sound card since then has to use a software solution to do 3D sound positioning w\ EAX (this was done on the CPU, not sound card DSP). It is here when the Asus Xonar series was developed to fill this gap (can't remember the software that Asus developed to reproduce EAX) and Creative came up w\ Alchemy to compensate for this loss. Starting w\ a few of the latest Creative X-Fi chips but going mainstream w\ the SB Z series Sound Core 3D 4-core DSP is where Creative has brought back the sound card's onboard DSP actually doing the true 3D sound positioning work instead of porting this work to the CPU due to the advent of Creative's SBX software suite in which Creative has perfected this for WDDM 2.x (the core sound processing of Win 7 and up). Creative's latest DSP is the high end SB-Axx1 Multi-Core DSP which can also perform 3D sound positioning onboard using the same Creative SBX software suite as well as high end, multi-concurrent sound streaming. This is the DSP that is being used in the $399.99 SB X7 DAC-AMP and the $499.99 SB X7 Limited DAC-AMP.
In short, if good 3D audio sound positioning while gaming is important to you then you may consider an upgrade to the SB Z PCI-E sound card as Chalenge has hinted at. It is a great sound card (I also own 1 of these--the Zx model to be exact--as well and can attest to it) for the money and it's Sound Core 3D DSP is specifically tuned to optimize 3D audio sound and positioning effects from the hardware level of the sound card.
It may be that the new FMOD sound system being used in the Beta may need the later WDDM 2.x sound processing core to better produce it's sound but as Chalenge also stated, this is better answered by Hitech and Skuzzy than us.
Hope this helps you out.
:salute
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I downloaded the latest drivers for my card and sounds are now where they should be. I'm not looking in the wrong direction for an oncoming tank. It's clear also, however, that I'm not getting the 3D surround sound effect that I had with the XP machine. I'll probably get the SB Z PCI-E.
Others have the same problem. I encountered two players to day who complained that I sounded like I was coming from the a different direction than my actual location. So it may be a bug or it just may be that a lot of us will need o upgrade sound as well as video cards.
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I downloaded the latest drivers for my card and sounds are now where they should be. I'm not looking in the wrong direction for an oncoming tank. It's clear also, however, that I'm not getting the 3D surround sound effect that I had with the XP machine. I'll probably get the SB Z PCI-E.
Others have the same problem. I encountered two players to day who complained that I sounded like I was coming from the a different direction than my actual location. So it may be a bug or it just may be that a lot of us will need o upgrade sound as well as video cards.
Yeah, I believe there's more than 1 reason why Hitech changed out the sound system in the Beta from the Miles Sound System software suite that he used in AHII to FMOD Sound software suite.........
In due time they'll inform us on what we need to know to make better use of it.
:salute
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So far as for something looking "right", we choose to fiddle with the FOV, to make it "easier" to look around. :uhoh
I agree, that in a game where situation awareness is key to survival, realism comes in a close second in appreciation. :cry
So, I figure HiTech has left it up to us to juggle and find the best balance for ourselves. Basically, giving us the number of options to customize, rather than a one size fits all setting, eventually bringing more customer satisfaction, not less. :pray
If there is a compromise in the "scale" of viewable objects (ie FOV) to enlarge the size of tracers and hit sprites, HiTech Creations would know the cost or benefit in terms of memory, or framerates or other consequences that these changes may bring. In other words, they have more objects to juggle.... and I am certain they plan to serve their customers the "best" they see fit. :salute
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As an aside to what I posted earlier concerning 3D sound,
Several mobo manufacturers are starting to offer\use Creative's Sound Core 3D DSP and Creative's SBX studio as the core for their onboard 3D sound solutions (such as Gigabyte, as this X99M-Gaming 5 micro-ATX mobo has this very DSP onboard but since I have Creative's SB X7 DAC-AMP I disabled it) so if a platform upgrade is in your horizons you might consider the onboard sound solution that is being offered on the mobo as an option.
Also, if anyone is interested, Creative has just developed a new external USB DAC-AMP called the SoundBlaster X that is using the current high end SB-Axx1 DSP and new SBX suite strictly designed for gaming touting full 3D audio and 3D audio positioning capability in 7.1 to pair up w\ Creative's new SoundBlaster X 7.1 gaming headset.
http://www.soundblaster.com/
:salute
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As an aside to what I posted earlier concerning 3D sound,
Several mobo manufacturers are starting to offer\use Creative's Sound Core 3D DSP and Creative's SBX studio as the core for their onboard 3D sound solutions (such as Gigabyte, as this X99M-Gaming 5 micro-ATX mobo has this very DSP onboard but since I have Creative's SB X7 DAC-AMP I disabled it) so if a platform upgrade is in your horizons you might consider the onboard sound solution that is being offered on the mobo as an option.
Also, if anyone is interested, Creative has just developed a new external USB DAC-AMP called the SoundBlaster X that is using the current high end SB-Axx1 DSP and new SBX suite strictly designed for gaming touting full 3D audio and 3D audio positioning capability in 7.1 to pair up w\ Creative's new SoundBlaster X 7.1 gaming headset.
http://www.soundblaster.com/
:salute
Is this it?
http://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-x7
Thanks for the info. Sounds nice but $400 is out of my price range. Of course I realize your not saying it's necessary.
My concern is; what will be necessary? I was ready to shell out $100 for an SB Z but when I read comments such as "It may be that the new FMOD sound system being used in the Beta may need the later WDDM 2.x sound processing core to better produce it's sound but as Chalenge also stated, this is better answered by Hitech and Skuzzy than us." I'm not sure what to do other than wait.
I did some searching for WDDM 2.x but failed to find anything other then references to the windows display driver model which seems to apply to graphics, not sound. So how does this apply to sound processing and is it incorporated into any reasonably priced sound cards?
:salute
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What I was commenting about was that only hitech or Skuzzy can tell us why 3D positioning is not working on standard onboard chips, and anything else that is using software processing for 3D locations. I know for a fact that the Z series cards work perfectly. The new SB-Axx1 is a further refinement of Core 3D, and the design is primarily an attempt to satisfy consumers across platforms like PlayStation, Xbox, and PC. I think that concerning SB-Axx1 that only the more expensive units come with 3D positioning capabilities, except for the standard software solutions built into the drivers.
I think I also already said that the Sound Blaster Z is the best solution concerning bang for buck.
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I have no idea why it is not working. My guess would be something I'm doing in initialization for fmod or a bug in fmod. I simply have not had time to investigate it.
Please remember this is a beta, it is not my priority to make each release of beta work for you. It is my job to find out what the root cause of the issue is so I can fix the issue that is causing it not to work for you.
Please think of the beta as you giving me info on what is not working, rather then you trying to find a way to make the beta work for you.
HiTech
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Actually, I think you have somewhere fixed half of the problem already just by moving to FMOD. I gave up on an older non-3D audio card (HT Omega), because I heard two tanks for every one tank actually in my vicinity. It had A3D and EAX, but it just didn't work well. Now I'm told the same thing about this card, but instead of two positions it is exactly like Condor and 715 in that the sound is offset 30-45 degrees to one side.
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If you are applying or forcing any type of sound processing, by the audio card, then you have successfully tainted the results you will get and made it nearly impossible for anyone to isolate any kind of issue.
The same goes for video. Using anything other than the default installation options of the video card will taint the results.
You want to do all that after the game goes live, then knock yourselves out, but for the purposes of BETA, please leave everything in the computer at its defaults.
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I was just thinking the same thing, like Crystal enhancements, 5.1, Dolby, and so on? Some of these guys may not even know they are using it.
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I was just thinking the same thing, like Crystal enhancements, 5.1, Dolby, and so on? Some of these guys may not even know they are using it.
I admit to being one of those guys who doesn't know what he is using. I did set the card for 5.1 because it worked great with AH2 using my old XP machine but I have learned form this forum that the world has changed since XP more than I realized.
I just reset my card to the defaults and will see if that makes any difference.
Chalenge, I appreciate all your help. Please don't think I'm not "listening". I may not have the SBz yet but I've followed a number of suggestions you have made and am pleased with the results. :aok
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I don't mess with dynamic superduper res, but I do have 1440p and 4k monitors, and can attest to the fact that the higher the res goes over 1080p, the smaller/tougher the tracers are to see, both the dot/flare and the smoke trail. They are very tough to pick up at 1440p on a 27" monitor, I can't imagine on a larger panel at 4k/DSR them being anything but nearly invisible right now. Tracers off will be a popular option I think, for higher res players.
I've never seen a trail from the tracers, I thought that was how this new version was supposed to be... :uhoh
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Personally I like the way post lighting makes certain color combinations look like real projected light on the gunsight reflector plate.
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I was just thinking the same thing, like Crystal enhancements, 5.1, Dolby, and so on? Some of these guys may not even know they are using it.
I see that 5.1 is one of the selections under speaker layout in AH3. The implication is we shouldn't use it but why not? What is the correct speaker layout selection? I see the choices also include Windows speaker config., mono, stereo, Dolby, and 5.1 as well as a couple of others. Right now I have Windows speaker config selected. I want to be sure I have the optimal configuration for evaluating my upgrade to the SBz. I'm assuming that if 5.1 is not optimal I need to have the speaker selection set at stereo in the creative software.
I was going to set the SBz to defaults but there appears to be no default button. So I have a few more questions.
SBX Pro Studio is enabled with surround, crystalizer, and bass checked. Should that be disabled?
Crystal voice is enabled with noise reduction and acoustic echo cancellation selected. Should that be disabled?
Scout mode is not enabled.
No encoder is selected for cinematic and I suspect that is correct given your statement about Dolby.
When you mentioned crystal enhancement I wasn't sure if you meant SBX crystalizer, crystal voice, or both.
Hope I'm not trying your patience too much but I don't want to post any more issues cussed by employing the wrong settings. (Not to mention that I want the best experience in the game.) I'm not sure what "forcing or applying sound processing means" since to my simple mind that is basically what any sound card does.
Thanks
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I see that 5.1 is one of the selections under speaker layout in AH3. The implication is we shouldn't use it but why not? What is the correct speaker layout selection? I see the choices also include Windows speaker config., mono, stereo, Dolby, and 5.1 as well as a couple of others. Right now I have Windows speaker config selected. I want to be sure
Thanks
Never ever choose the 'Dolby" option or you will be instantly PNG'd !
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Never ever choose the 'Dolby" option or you will be instantly PNG'd !
Never planned to. Just gave it as an example of a setting that it appears shouldn't be selected and wonder why it'd there. It's also in AH2. Should it not be selected there either?
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I have tested SBX Pro Studio on my system with all options and found it to work well, but I generally use "Stereo (2.0/2.1)" in the speaker and headphone tab. SBX enhancements can create a confusing output, and by that I mean a front/back separation that doesn't quite sound right. Turn off Crystal Voice. Do not use Scout Mode. You are correct about the Encoder tab. Pretty much I think you guessed correctly.
Once the game is out of BETA then you can go back to playing with those other settings, but this will help to make sure that the card is not causing anomalies. This is just to stream line bug hunts.
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PNG'd? What is that?
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I have tested SBX Pro Studio on my system with all options and found it to work well, but I generally use "Stereo (2.0/2.1)" in the speaker and headphone tab. SBX enhancements can create a confusing output, and by that I mean a front/back separation that doesn't quite sound right. Turn off Crystal Voice. Do not use Scout Mode. You are correct about the Encoder tab. Pretty much I think you guessed correctly.
Once the game is out of BETA then you can go back to playing with those other settings, but this will help to make sure that the card is not causing anomalies. This is just to stream line bug hunts.
Does your advice to turn crystal voice off apply only to AH3? In AH3 I just tested the mic by tuning to myself. My voice transmission sounded great initially with SBX and Crystal voice on. But of, course, I don't know how it effected the game sounds.
Tonight I turned off SBX and crystal voice and logged in to AH 2. I tuned to myself to get the volume adjustment right. Didn't want to blow anyone's ear drums :) My voice was distorted and there was a horrible echo. After adjusting the volume I tuned to the squad channel and a squad mate confirmed that my voice was somewhat garbled and there was a significant echo. I then logged into AH3 with SBX and crystal voice turned off and, tuned to myself, noted the same echo and unclear transmission.
So I enabled both SBX and crystal voice and in AH2 the echo was gone (Crystal voice has an echo reduction feature.) and the transmission was much clearer both to my squad mate and tuned to myself. Then back in AH3 with SBX and crystal voice on The echo was gone but my transmission did seem to break up a little. (Again tuned to myself.)
I did all this using both the SBz microphone and my old Labtech microphone and heard no significant difference other than my very first experience in AH3 yesterday. Then, with SBx and and crystal voice turned on my transmission using the SB mic sounded better than ever before . But that's not the case now.
In the middle of all this back and forth I lost microphone function completely in windows and had to reinstall the drivers again. Don't know if that relates to any of this.
Should I be ignoring the quality of voice transmissions in AH3 for now? So far this discussion has been about vehicle and plane sounds so I realize I am digressing a little.
I don't recall if any bugs have been reported for voice transmissions.
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That advice is just for BETA testing. You can test it any way you want even now, but for the beta reports. . .
Okay, so you're having mic issues. We should probably take that to the hardware forum. I would start a thread there, indicate how your mic is wired to the card, speakers, and let's go from there.
And yes I told you wrong. You need the noise reduction and echo cancelation on. When I checked mine I wasn't thinking that I had changed to my Yamaha mixer for mic input.
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Agreed. Wrong forum. Ran into the mic problem and got completely off track. I'll take it to my sound card upgrade thread.
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PNG'd? What is that?
Specifying you as a Persona Non Grata instead of a Copper Member you now are. I.e. strongly advising you not to participate.
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Never ever choose the 'Dolby" option or you will be instantly PNG'd !
:rofl
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Dolby is my friend :)
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Dolby is his own worst enemy :)
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If you are applying or forcing any type of sound processing, by the audio card, then you have successfully tainted the results you will get and made it nearly impossible for anyone to isolate any kind of issue.
The same goes for video. Using anything other than the default installation options of the video card will taint the results.
You want to do all that after the game goes live, then knock yourselves out, but for the purposes of BETA, please leave everything in the computer at its defaults.
I didn't understand this till now.