Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: RufusLeaking on May 14, 2016, 06:46:07 AM
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For Frame 2, May 13, 2016 "Air Battles Before Bodenplatte"
On the attack on the bridge span, I assigned only eight FW 190F-8s. The logic being that the bridges would go down easy. Hindsight tells me an escort might have been required.
Per the rules: - Targets will be attacked and defended by a credible force. Unless stated otherwise this will be a minimum of 12 players assigned per target. This can consist of a single squad or multiple squads.
Sorry. This a cautionary tale to those who rush out orders. Reread the rules. Better, yet, don't put yourself in the position of needing to rush out orders.
On defense for this frame, the targets, especially the refineries and the airfields, where close enough to have overlapping patrol areas. So, "defended by twelve" is harder to discern. I only assigned one group to defend bridge, but in practice, there was a jumble of defenders over the targets.
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G3 was assigned with defending the Allied Bridge.
I'm not sure where your strike package got intercepted, but they never got close to the bridge as I did not see a Axis fighter all night.
The Allied fuel strat was a mere 3.5 miles from our bridge. So a few of us did get lucky in the fact we saw JU-88's, no escorts as I recall though. So for the most part that was it.
Eventually we rearmed and went to the Axis fuel strat, shot some stuff up, and called it good.
8 on the bridge would have been enough, 12 would have been better....... Use 6 for escort, 6 for carrying heavy ords..
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I'm pretty sure the bridge strike got intercepted by one of our outbound strikes and one of my scouts. He called in low 110s and 190s almost 2 sectors out. He engaged them along with a group of friendlies.
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412th saw the unescoted bombers while outbound escorting our strike package. Amidst moans and groans of fresh meat on the table we let them continue so as to not deprive allied defenders their role and fun. It is a simple and courteous rule of FSO.
Muttman
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412th saw the unescoted bombers while outbound escorting our strike package. Amidst moans and groans of fresh meat on the table we let them continue so as to not deprive allied defenders their role and fun. It is a simple and courteous rule of FSO.
Muttman
I applaud the 412th for sticking to the assigned task. It is a hard thing to do and shows you all to be group of experienced vets.
:salute
Way
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Yea, we were watching it on text Branch..... We had a pretty good idea what was unfolding at the time taking into account of location, plane types, and their alt. Overall was a quiet evening for us. At least the Beer was cold, and the whiskey flowed among our ranks.
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Yea, we were watching it on text Branch..... We had a pretty good idea what was unfolding at the time taking into account of location, plane types, and their alt. Overall was a quiet evening for us. At least the Beer was cold, and the whiskey flowed among our ranks.
Well done G3! You guys did what was asked and even attacked the fuel strat with Spits and Tempests.
:salute
Way
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I applaud the 412th for sticking to the assigned task. It is a hard thing to do and shows you all to be group of experienced vets.
:salute
Way
Oh, man.. you don't know how hard...
(http://www.xancrom.com/412th/Resist.jpg)
:salute
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On the Axis side, prior to Allied air superiority, the B-26 strike inbound to A131 ran into the refinery defenders and the base defenders. Or maybe the refinery strike package ran into the base defenders. It was anarchy. Who knew? Anarchy equals fun. :banana:
It does lead to an interesting mission possibility: a mass stream hitting two targets. How would that count towards the credible force concept? I guess 24 in the stream for two targets.
The best scenarios allow feints, confusion and changes on the fly.
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Typically mass force hitting 2 targets is shall we say "frowned" upon. However in this setup, with locations of targets in such close proximity, its not such an issue in my mind at all.
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It does lead to an interesting mission possibility: a mass stream hitting two targets. How would that count towards the credible force concept? I guess 24 in the stream for two targets.
That's a no-no. Each target must be assigned it's own force. From the rules..
- CiCs shall not organize a mission with orders to attack more than one objective in succession. More simply stated, one objective, one mission. If there are 8 offensive objectives for one side during a frame, the CIC shall ensure that there are eight attack missions, each assigned to attack a single objective. This rule is intended to prevent CIC's from overwhelming the defenders of a single target. For example, a large combined force of 60 aircraft attacking three bases that are each singly defended by a squad of 15 or 20. Please see examples under the Example CiC Orders section:
Of course, exceptions can be made, to this, at the CM's discretion. I'm sure that all necessary leaders will be notified if such is the case.
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That's a no-no. Each target must be assigned it's own force. From the rules..
1. I really need to read all of the rules.
2. Why is this restriction in place?
3. Given the proximity of the targets in this scenario, it would require actual planning to have strikes avoid each other.
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Ruf, what the rule is intended to avoid is having one mass of planes rolling multiple objectives in succession. It is allowable, however, to have one mass enter the area of multiple targets and them split to hit both at the same time.
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a mass stream hitting two targets
Is against the rules. It prevents both sides from forming BORG BLOBS of plane strikes.
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Think we were the 88's. We were tasked with hitting 111. Taking BoB bombers to a late war party, we were expecting a rough night. We were part of a 5 squad package - 2 squads of 410's, one of 110's and one of 190D9's. That D9 squad was the lone real defensive package effectively covering 4 other squads, so no one was especially optimistic.
As it turns out, it seems the allies were being particularly polite and despite a couple of contacts on the way in that had us all thinking 'this is it', we actually made it almost to the drop effectively unmolested. Just before the drop a few Tempests made it in among us and roughed a few guys up, but most of us got bombs out and returned at least a few planes home. Five hangers down as I recall.
I've rarely been so surprised to being 3 untouched JU88s home.
:lol
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Think we were the 88's. We were tasked with hitting 111. Taking BoB bombers to a late war party, we were expecting a rough night. We were part of a 5 squad package - 2 squads of 410's, one of 110's and one of 190D9's. That D9 squad was the lone real defensive package effectively covering 4 other squads, so no one was especially optimistic.
As it turns out, it seems the allies were being particularly polite and despite a couple of contacts on the way in that had us all thinking 'this is it', we actually made it almost to the drop effectively unmolested. Just before the drop a few Tempests made it in among us and roughed a few guys up, but most of us got bombs out and returned at least a few planes home. Five hangers down as I recall.
I've rarely been so surprised to being 3 untouched JU88s home.
:lol
Wooley that lone P-51 was also one of our scouts, once we figured your bombers were for 111 our scout called out your heading and target, we headed back South as to not intercept a package not meant for us. So not exactly sure why you didn't get a bigger welcoming party, unless they were busy with other aircraft already. We did let our scout attack since he was there though, and figured one pony may draw off some of the escort to make it easier for our 111 defenders.
<S>
BigRat
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Our numbers have been low last couple of frames Rufleak or you might well have had your 12 F8s.
Problem for us occurred when the escort for an Allied group (maybe for the Mossies that flew under us) decided to bounce us. In fact I think 2 of the mossies trailed us for some miles as well. (If so, they can't be complaining that their escort left them).
Anyway we were still 2 squares from the target zone when jumped. We had to scatter and run with pretty much all of us having to ditch bombs and fight our way out.
We attempted to rendezvous quickly on the deck and rearm and still hit the target well within the 60 minutes.
No matter which way we turned we ran across Allied planes. There was a brawl on the deck that involved more mossies and 51s that we flew through on our way to a nearby rearming field option. We took a passing shot as we zoomed by and headed straight for the field. It started to flash. Beggar.
We changed to another field to rearm. It started to flash so we pulled out and ran straight into some A20s coming by also on the deck. We took some shots and headed to yet another field. We loaded the bombs and on taking off a lone P47 decided he was about to have a picnic. I shot his laugh off, poor beggar and he flew off all oily.
Desperate to get back on target we tried to head off North West still on the deck. Moments later, jumped again by P38s and P47s who were as dangerous to each other as they were to us, what with all of them trying to get a kill without waiting turns. Old Oily had called some friends over for lunch. Ditching the bombs again had not helped and we soon sat in the tower after exploding. I thought to myself, somebody out there on the Allied side is going to be guarding that blasted bridge for another hour and a half and they aren't going to even break a sweat today.
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so basically dantoo, you were jumped by a group that wasn't supposed to jump you, and that screwed up the rest of the night.
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Jaeger that's not entirely accurate. The 412th was tasked with sweeping ahead of the bridge strike force. When we arrived at the bridge one of our guys spotted the 190F8's below him and reported it. They were in a position to interfere with our mission so we attacked them.
It wasn't apparent that they were 190F8's until we got close enough to have the icon change and at that point we were already committed.
Our squad went to great lengths to stay on mission. It was just a case of Dantoo's squad being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
This is just another case where one should get all the facts before pointing a finger.
A squadmate, Kanth also brings up a good point... Dantoo's squad was the only enemy we saw at the bridge. Where was the bridge defense?
We never saw any other enemy at the target.
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Jaeger that's not entirely accurate. The 412th was tasked with sweeping ahead of the bridge strike force. When we arrived at the bridge one of our guys spotted the 190F8's below him and reported it. They were in a position to interfere with our mission so we attacked them.
The 412th did exactly what was asked in the orders. :aok
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so basically dantoo, you were jumped by a group that wasn't supposed to jump you, and that screwed up the rest of the night.
I'm actually trying to say that because everything was jammed so close together, there was not only no room to get through to the target, try as we might, but we couldn't even run away and rearm without smacking into a bunch of people.
I'm in no way inferring that we didn't have a short and exciting evening, full of interesting problems to solve. I'm just saying that there is probably a squad out there that would like to know what happened to our attack and also let the CMs know that again this week our numbers were way low, which threw the allocated numbers for the F8s in the hole. Wasn't really the CICs fault for the numbers.
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I stand corrected! food for thought for people who want smaller maps thinking that it makes it more exciting. I counted about 120 players per side, so I don't think numbers where the problem. to me it felt like people running into people they shouldn't have run into.
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I stand corrected! food for thought for people who want smaller maps thinking that it makes it more exciting. I counted about 120 players per side, so I don't think numbers where the problem. to me it felt like people running into people they shouldn't have run into.
Running missions that are almost scripted is a huge advantage.
If you want to continue this argument, the other thread is still available. :aok
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Running missions that are almost scripted is a huge advantage.
If you want to continue this argument, the other thread is still available. :aok
So your saying you could have run it better? We specialize in unscripted, just how it is Sir.
I can assure you, we would have loved for the F-8's to have made it.
We adapted, changed tactics, then made stuff happen after T+60......... Most would have logged ;)
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I get the feeling that its more important to have everyone experience a fight. That is NOT what FSO is all about. If by chance a group runs across another group and combat is joined, then so be it.
Scripted engagements is NOT the way to go.
I have read that many sorties IRL were uneventful, realism is what we need to strive for.
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So your saying you could have run it better? We specialize in unscripted, just how it is Sir.
Not what I'm saying at all, it was in reference to another thread regarding small maps being the good choice for the MA. A debate that Jeager and I had last week where I claimed a healthy MA is the place to initially draw players until they mature and take part in events.
However, now that you mention it, you gents do run scripted events. You arrange targets, and you expect them to be hit at a certain time by a credible force. That sounds scripted to me. It is one of the reasons I like scenarios much better. Sometimes you don't find any action and that is the luck of the draw.
edit: I'm not bashing FSO, people like it but I just didn't find it my cup of tea.
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Not what I'm saying at all, it was in reference to another thread regarding small maps being the good choice for the MA. A debate that Jeager and I had last week where I claimed a healthy MA is the place to initially draw players until they mature and take part in events.
However, now that you mention it, you gents do run scripted events. You arrange targets, and you expect them to be hit at a certain time by a credible force. That sounds scripted to me. It is one of the reasons I like scenarios much better. Sometimes you don't find any action and that is the luck of the draw.
edit: I'm not bashing FSO, people like it but I just didn't find it my cup of tea.
FSO is no more scripted than chess.
In fact, the best setups play out like chess games. Ideally, the planes (pieces) are balanced and it all comes down to the players ability and strategy.
If you sit at a chess table across from an empty chair, you did not win.
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FSO is no more scripted than chess.
Yes, you are correct. Every time I play chess the rules clearly state I need to use the Queens Gambit and I cannot take attacking pawns unless I use my knights. In addition, I have to use the Kings indian attack before the 12th move of the game or it isn't considered a credible force and I can be punished for it. /sarcasm
If you sit at a chess table across from an empty chair, you did not win.
Sometimes, that can be fun, particularly if best laid plans are successful. That is the joy of events and truly recreates the fog of war.
Again, scripted FSO events can be fun, but it isn't my cup of tea. I'm not bashing the play style, it is just my opinion.
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Yes, you are correct. Every time I play chess the rules clearly state I need to use the Queens Gambit and I cannot take attacking pawns unless I use my knights. In addition, I have to use the Kings indian attack before the 12th move of the game or it isn't considered a credible force and I can be punished for it. /sarcasm
Sometimes, that can be fun, particularly if best laid plans are successful. That is the joy of events and truly recreates the fog of war.
Again, scripted FSO events can be fun, but it isn't my cup of tea. I'm not bashing the play style, it is just my opinion.
You're reaching badly. The only rules governing strategy are to limit unfair gameplay. This is a game and like any game the point is to meet and best your opponent.
No contact = no game = no fun = no point.
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Argument made, counter argument made; let's agree to disagree.
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Argument made, counter argument made; let's agree to disagree.
Fair enough. :salute
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:salute
Please don't confuse my stance as an attack on you personally or the CM team. With very few exceptions, I would enjoy opening the bar at my home to fellow Aces High enthusiasts. We all enjoy the genre but enjoy different paths to satisfying our habit.
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Does anyone know who was tasked withe defending the Axis bridge in 5.12.1?
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Does anyone know who was tasked withe defending the Axis bridge in 5.12.1?
Amybody? Bueller? Bueller?
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Does anyone know who was tasked withe defending the Axis bridge in 5.12.1?
Jg2 was given that assignment.
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Okay that makes sense. They were present and massively overwhelmed by numbers. Thanks for the info. :aok
it was their 4 pilots in 109K4's against our 26 strong groups of P38's ,and P47's. :salute
they should probably get 262's next frame. Just sayin...
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Jg2 was given that assignment.
Thanks Devil.
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Okay that makes sense. They were present and massively overwhelmed by numbers. Thanks for the info. :aok
it was their 4 pilots in 109K4's against our 26 strong groups of P38's ,and P47's. :salute
they should probably get 262's next frame. Just sayin...
Yeah, Jg2 drew the shortest of the short straws last week.
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If it's any consolation, we were probably slaughtered by the same groups Devil :) You didn't die alone!
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only 4 guys to defend one target?
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If it's any consolation, we were probably slaughtered by the same groups Devil :) You didn't die alone!
Dantoo, the Pigs feasted on my 410's - but we got through to the target first. :devil
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The 325th and jg54 fighters ran into the F8s. Again we did not know they were F8s until closure, and we heard bombs fall. As all of us know it is hard to tell until ur in range and by that time it's to late. Last week JG54 did allow the ju88s pass without incident.
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