Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Skyguns MKII on May 18, 2016, 03:26:58 PM
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Wished for it a really long time ago with positive feedback but with everything going on I would like to see this finally implemented.
A few second reload delay for all guns equipped with drums or box mags.
Think of the stats e.g. wirbel vs m16 in ammo capacity and reload rate. Somebody also mentioned that the 110 used drums on the cannons that the crew would have to change.
I really think this would be something realistic and honestly really fun to use. Thoughts?
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+1
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You are not the only one over the years before you joined the game who wished for this. And just like the wirbel turret or 88 turn speeds, Hitech knows some players want these things. Some things in this game appear to be Hitech balancing the reality of how easy it is to accomplish things in the game versus the realities of real life.
If the 88 turned at it's high speed turn rate it would become a 5incher on land in the middle of a field. If the wirbel turret turned at it's highest speed, very few would ever stand a chance machine gunning the turret to get rid of the threat. Most players who want to vulch a field don't bring ords to kill wirbels. A reload delay would only benefit runway vulchers, deackers, and planes shooting the wirbels turrets so they can survive at a capped field while waiting to vulch.
Notice we do not get the 2400yd range with the 2cm flak 38 in the wirbel or the 5000yd range from the flak 43 in the osti. Closest to the 5000yd range is 4700yds in the manned 37mm flak 37. Kind of how the introduction of the commander ring enabled tankers to become their own air defense against guns only airplane tank killers.
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You are not the only one over the years before you joined the game who wished for this. And just like the wirbel turret or 88 turn speeds, Hitech knows some players want these things. Some things in this game appear to be Hitech balancing the reality of how easy it is to accomplish things in the game versus the realities of real life.
If the 88 turned at it's high speed turn rate it would become a 5incher on land in the middle of a field. If the wirbel turret turned at it's highest speed, very few would ever stand a chance machine gunning the turret to get rid of the threat. Most players who want to vulch a field don't bring ords to kill wirbels. A reload delay would only benefit runway vulchers, deackers, and planes shooting the wirbels turrets so they can survive at a capped field while waiting to vulch.
Notice we do not get the 2400yd range with the 2cm flak 38 in the wirbel or the 5000yd range from the flak 43 in the osti. Closest to the 5000yd range is 4700yds in the manned 37mm flak 37. Kind of how the introduction of the commander ring enabled tankers to become their own air defense against guns only airplane tank killers.
I see your point. Couldn't we trade reload rate for rate of rotation as mentioned? Just curious.
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If the wirbel turret turned at it's highest speed, very few would ever stand a chance machine gunning the turret to get rid of the threat.
Wirbel at present is at the high speed turret rotation for the hand crank. Electric motors for the turret have been mentioned but no known production versions have been documented or proved to be found.
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Wirbel at present is at the high speed turret rotation for the hand crank. Electric motors for the turret have been mentioned but no known production versions have been documented or proved to be found.
Did not know this :cheers:
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Wirbles had 20 round ammo mags, it would turn them to hangar queens if we had them... 2 second fire, 5 second reload...
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Wirbles had 20 round ammo mags, it would turn them to hangar queens if we had them... 2 second fire, 5 second reload...
One could simply use primary & secondary fire buttons to enable continous fire by shooting only two barrels alternately, as it was done in reality.
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It would still have a significant impact on the wirbles. No more laser beams out from the V-bases..
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Wirbles had 20 round ammo mags, it would turn them to hangar queens if we had them... 2 second fire, 5 second reload...
that is the idea. I dont care about anti vulch wirbs. they are a pain in the neck when they sit in towns or worse - between trees and shoot at dogfighting planes or calling planes to drag enemies to them. they may keep doing that, but not at the current spraying capacity.
they also should not survive a volley of 20mm into their open turret from above.
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It would still have a significant impact on the wirbles. No more laser beams out from the V-bases..
But it would not turn it into a "hangar queen", because in the (current) AH environment it would be still more powerful than the M16 or Ostwind.
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Wirbles had 20 round ammo mags, it would turn them to hangar queens if we had them... 2 second fire, 5 second reload...
This is the type of ammo clip & how it was changed out.
It could be done quicker than 5 seconds I think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugZhqz4AQUk
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they also should not survive a volley of 20mm into their open turret from above.
I experimented with this some time back.
Parking an M3 alongside of a Wirbel I shot a single 50 cal round inside of the top of the turret it will smoke it every time.
May I suggest if your firing a volley of 20 mm cannon & didn't smoke the Wirbel you missed the hole. :bolt:
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Even a .30 smokes a Wirble with a short burst down in the turret.
This is the type of ammo clip & how it was changed out.
It could be done quicker than 5 seconds I think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugZhqz4AQUk
But you have 4 of them, and a lot less space.
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According to Wiki the 20 round magazine lasted 6 seconds so if the guns are fired in pairs like Lusche said it should be enough time to reload the other two. But it will still reduce the rate of fire by 50% from today.
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It would be cool to select from the two wirble firing modes:
Like others have suggested, two guns at a time for continuous firing to simulate two guns being reloaded while the other two are firing.
Four guns at a time but with several second long pauses to simulate all guns being reloaded at once.
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I really think this would be something realistic and honestly really fun to use. Thoughts?
You obviously never played WW2Online that had exactly that. I can think of all sorts of words to describe the experience of shooting a machine gun and having to wait for the clips to reload while you're getting raped by the enemy, but most would be fluffy-filtered or result in a perma ban. Let's just understand that 'Fun' would NOT be one of those words.
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You obviously never played WW2Online that had exactly that. I can think of all sorts of words to describe the experience of shooting a machine gun and having to wait for the clips to reload while you're getting raped by the enemy, but most would be fluffy-filtered or result in a perma ban. Let's just understand that 'Fun' would NOT be one of those words.
But it would not turn it into a "hangar queen", because in the (current) AH environment it would be still more powerful than the M16 or Ostwind.
Okay but how about all the other guns drum and box fed? Bomber Gunners, certain fighters, and non AA gvs?
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Even a .30 smokes a Wirble with a short burst down in the turret.
But you have 4 of them, and a lot less space.
Two loaders one either side. As mentioned before two guns will be firing at all times. The real down fall of the Wirbel in real life was they had to change the barrels out very frequently. Had read about IL-2 pilots knew how long they could fire the quad 20mm for & would fly in circles just out of range waiting for the barrel change. Then in they would come & knock the gun out as they changed them.
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According to Wiki the 20 round magazine lasted 6 seconds so if the guns are fired in pairs like Lusche said it should be enough time to reload the other two. But it will still reduce the rate of fire by 50% from today.
They could fire all four guns as well so long as the gunner had 4 full clips & selected that firing option.
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+1
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Okay but how about all the other guns drum and box fed? Bomber Gunners, certain fighters, and non AA gvs?
I was specifically referring to bomber gunners. It sucked. Badly.
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They could fire all four guns as well so long as the gunner had 4 full clips & selected that firing option.
yes, but then the ammo will be out after 6 seconds and it will take at least 5-6 seconds to change all 4 mags.
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I was specifically referring to bomber gunners. It sucked. Badly.
For bombers its a bit more tricky, an attacking fighter is usually only within range for a few seconds and the gunners will normally have enough ammo in the drums to fire at the attacker and then reload while the fighter reposition himself for a new attack.
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For bombers its a bit more tricky, an attacking fighter is usually only within range for a few seconds and the gunners will normally have enough ammo in the drums to fire at the attacker and then reload while the fighter reposition himself for a new attack.
If you know your low why not just reload in between fighter attacks
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Thats what I said, gunners would reload between attacks and always have a full drum when the attack starts.
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Thats what I said, gunners would reload between attacks and always have a full drum when the attack starts.
Sorry I was meaning to insert ap drones quote. I agree with you
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For bombers its a bit more tricky, an attacking fighter is usually only within range for a few seconds and the gunners will normally have enough ammo in the drums to fire at the attacker and then reload while the fighter reposition himself for a new attack.
Wrong.
In real life, maybe.. in the cartoon world.. nada.. They'd park off the six and chip away.. their lives weren't at risk.
It sucked.
Big time.
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Most tail guns have more than enough ammo to handle that...
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Most tail guns have more than enough ammo to handle that...
Keep in mind the clip type gunners were not in the B17 and B24.. but in the JUs, HEs,.. and such, where the gun they were reloading was 7.62mm or .30 cal. Laceration dispensers.
Trust me.. it sucked.
Really.
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Those bombers are a turkey shoot for a fighter anyway so i dont see that it would change anything...
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Those bombers are a turkey shoot for a fighter anyway so i dont see that it would change anything...
If it won't change anything, WHY bother changing anything?
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All of this change anything is moot. First you have to convince Hitech the change you want fits into the framework of what he is willing to give to the community based on his years of experience.
Good intentions and "you think it is a good idea to try" end up often in the same place on the trail to ruin. These kinds of things only count if Hitech thinks it's a good idea to include it in his game.
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Two loaders one either side. As mentioned before two guns will be firing at all times. The real down fall of the Wirbel in real life was they had to change the barrels out very frequently. Had read about IL-2 pilots knew how long they could fire the quad 20mm for & would fly in circles just out of range waiting for the barrel change. Then in they would come & knock the gun out as they changed them.
Really?
How many Whirbs were in service total? 80?
and how many of them were knocked out by IL2s?
Seems to me like the same BS with the Tigers. Seems like every tank the allied met in Normandy was a Tiger and if you sum up all the "how we destroyed that Tiger" stories you'd find that every Tiger produced has been destroyed 5 times.
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maybe change your wirb killing strategy.
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Really?
How many Whirbs were in service total? 80?
and how many of them were knocked out by IL2s?
Seems to me like the same BS with the Tigers. Seems like every tank the allied met in Normandy was a Tiger and if you sum up all the "how we destroyed that Tiger" stories you'd find that every Tiger produced has been destroyed 5 times.
During the Karelian offensive in 1944 IL-2:s frequently tried to go head on with AAA guns (not wirbs) and they lost almost every time. They rarely succeeded in killing the gun while a large numbers of IL:s were shot down..
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Really?
How many Whirbs were in service total? 80?
and how many of them were knocked out by IL2s?
Sorry was not specific enough in my other post.
Was referring to the AAA quad 20mm guns.
The same as what was in the Wirbels.
Nelson Stepanyan was the pilot who perfected attacking these guns he destroyed 63 anti-aircraft guns personally in his IL-2.
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I really think this would be something realistic and honestly really fun to use. Thoughts?
As Bustr mentioned before HTC seems to have chosen a game compromise over reality. Personally I would not mind the delay in the reload time. However if we are going to stay with reality here is the real firing distances for the Wirbel & Ostwind.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/vehicles/Ostwind_zpsl4nxpu3k.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/vehicles/Ostwind_zpsl4nxpu3k.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/vehicles/wirbel_zps8hfubjsj.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/vehicles/wirbel_zps8hfubjsj.jpg.html)
If the reload time was factored in it would still be bad for the aircraft. Wirbel would be tagging you at 4,800 meters out on the horizontal & 3,700 meters in the vertical.
Keep in mind the Ostwind was what the Germans chose to replace the Wirbel because in real life it could not shoot far enough.
Ostwind range 6,500 meters horizontal & 4,800 meters vertical.
Just some food for thought. :old:
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Okay but how about all the other guns drum and box fed? Bomber Gunners.
Before changing to ammo drum load outs on bombers & mostly axis bomber defensive guns. HTC should correct a number of them because the firing arcs are restricted in AHII compared to real life.
For example HE-111.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBhGp23NS_s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlJlOQcDAhE
G4M1-11 Betty.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,377272.0.html
KI-67.
This aircraft did not have ammo drums on the front and rear but its still designed wrong in game.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,376346.0.html
These aircraft are defensively limited now I would not restrict that ability more until fixed.
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If the reload time was factored in it would still be bad for the aircraft. Wirbel would be tagging you at 4,800 meters out on the horizontal & 3,700 meters in the vertical. Keep in mind the Ostwind was what the Germans chose to replace the Wirbel because in real life it could not shoot far enough.Ostwind range 6,500 meters horizontal & 4,800 meters vertical.Just some food for thought. :old:
That would be fine, but the laser range finder would have to go as well - no ranges on the plane icons for GVs
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I've always liked the idea for historical immersion, but also understand the point of balancing out MA matchups. How easily could a setting be created to enable drum/mag reloads and perhaps barrel cooling times for scenario use and then disable it in the MA in favor of the current "continuous fire" setting we have now?
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If you do this to bombers (Axis bombers will be the ones hit the hardest), then you'll be far more likely to get hit by lightning 3 times a year than to see Axis bombers in the sky. It's hard enough with the restricted coverage (based off of lyric's information) with rifles, but to tac on a 2-5 second reload? No.
GV's won't be as affected. 2x20mm's can still do a crap ton of damage. :)
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We have now concluded once again Hitech makes compromises in some areas of the game to not impose the most onerous of realities about the tools of world war 2 upon his fun seeking majority of subscribers.
The child in me would like the 88 to traverse in the higher gear. The adult in me wants this game to attract more players and stay around another decade. But, some people actually believe condoms are an optional choice when they don't even want to get married in the first place.
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We have now concluded once again Hitech makes compromises in some areas of the game to not impose the most onerous of realities about the tools of world war 2 upon his fun seeking majority of subscribers.
The child in me would like the 88 to traverse in the higher gear. The adult in me wants this game to attract more players and stay around another decade. But, some people actually believe condoms are an optional choice when they don't even want to get married in the first place.
pullout game strong :rock