Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Viper61 on June 10, 2016, 11:28:53 PM
-
Not liking this one. CMs need to change the following:
Plane set favors the AXIS more than just a little, adjust it - Frame 1 proves this
4 targets (2 defend 2 to attack) to many for the size of the FSO turn out - Have talked about this for the last 6-9 months - adjust this to 2 (defend 1 and attack 1) - don't have enough pilots to cover scouts or deception or sweeps - ends up just putting everyone one together (15 AC) and waiting for an attack.
Plane values - Bombers are worth so little vs the boats that the AXIS could lose 50 X JU88's and still gain points as long as they sank the boat - adjust point values of the planes so that it takes away the suicidal attacks
I don't care to be a historical reenactor - I know who lost the battle already - I want a fair fight and not getting it here, might as well go to the MA
Any you know this effects turn out, right?
-
You have Mossies and a ton of Spit9's this plane set does not favor the Axis - even a little.
But you may be on point with the target values.
-
gee, no one seemed upset last month when the allies wiped the axis out? there were only 12 planes or so left after the first hour. now the tables get turned a little and its a problem? I do agree that the the point setting are off some, but as for the rest of it, I attribute it to a well executed plan.
-
The typhoons got into 128 pretty fast and stirred up quite a bit of damage. Got a report of B25's coming in with a mighty fine escort of Spit IX's and a few mossies mixed in. I thought they did a pretty good job. :salute
-
I guess he wants F86's and axis to fly He112's!!! :cheers:
-
Look, the only thing that could, perhaps should, be readjusted is the target positions. The Allied targets are well inland which because of base flashing coverage makes it easy to cover every approach. Recovering to friendly bases from over France vs from over der Kanal isn't even a contest.
The distance from start bases to the Allied targets also makes it hard to work in the required mix of planes.
Bannor praised the raid on 128 but despite the super efforts of everybody involved it was a fiasco.
B25s slaughtered for zero return. Mossies and Typhs required to dive into ack to attack and nowhere to run afterward.
Guys didn't have a hope of returning from that.
The plane types aren't a mismatch IMHO. The tasks are.
Simple suggestion:
1. Move the Allied targets to the coast and a lot more people will get home to extend the fun.
2. Move the Axis targets inland and then at least both sides will be manfully slaughtered in the first hour.
-
Outside of Objects, Allies shot down more aircraft. Logs look pretty even with the exception of objects, which for the Axis are Ship objects.
-
The Allies showed on the light end as well. The sides were split even, but the Allies showed up with 20 less. With 2 targets to attack and two to defend you should have about 25 pilots per side per objective with 100 per side. So the desired fight per objective should be 25vs25.
Actually it was 102 to 88 Axis over Allies. A 14 pilot difference.
-
Look, the only thing that could, perhaps should, be readjusted is the target positions. The Allied targets are well inland which because of base flashing coverage makes it easy to cover every approach. Recovering to friendly bases from over France vs from over der Kanal isn't even a contest.
The distance from start bases to the Allied targets also makes it hard to work in the required mix of planes.
Bannor praised the raid on 128 but despite the super efforts of everybody involved it was a fiasco.
B25s slaughtered for zero return. Mossies and Typhs required to dive into ack to attack and nowhere to run afterward.
Guys didn't have a hope of returning from that.
The plane types aren't a mismatch IMHO. The tasks are.
Simple suggestion:
1. Move the Allied targets to the coast and a lot more people will get home to extend the fun.
2. Move the Axis targets inland and then at least both sides will be manfully slaughtered in the first hour.
The Allied Ships were located right off the coast from Allied Airfields, it was no easy flight from the Axis fields which most were further inland than the Allied fields.
The Axis 2nd wave sunk as many ships as the 1st wave, I think we might be over analyzing this FSO too early.
-
I must be the lone idiot. I had fun and flew my Hurricane to within 10 minutes before the end of frame and managed to lose control and auger while under attack by two enemy cons. All of my internal fuel tanks were shot out. I was literally flying off gas in my droppers only. Crazy fun. :aok
-
^This idiot is right with that idiot^
What a ball, and it lasted right up to the 2 hour mark <S>
-
The Axis Ju88s that attacked C55 were scouted and attacked before they even left France. By the time they reached the fleet there were only 1 or 2 formations left, of which only one scored a hit on the CV. To my knowledge none survived. What sunk the task group was a mixed strike of 109s, 190 JABOs, and 110 JABOs, which is nearly impossible to stop.
-
I had fun until the very end when I had 6 190s chasing me and I cartwheeled into the water. Got a ditch though. :devil
-
The Allied Ships were located right off the coast from Allied Airfields, it was no easy flight from the Axis fields which most were further inland than the Allied fields.
The Axis 2nd wave sunk as many ships as the 1st wave, I think we might be over analyzing this FSO too early.
I also survived to the end and I didn't say I didn't enjoy my own participation. I was simply responding to the original post. I don't agree with it's viewpoint, but since the thread is likely to extend into the normal pattern of these things, I just threw out a view that would bring it back into balance.
It's not how far from the home base that was my point. It is the approach channels to the target + the amount of hostile territory that has to be overflown in and out.
Just make the targets equivalent in difficulty to approach and leave.
No ships next time, make the targets inland as well and my criticism ends.
-
i don't normally do this but i'm going to so the allies can learn something.
my plan was to send in planes to the carriers, first wave JU88's 5 high, with regular ords, 3 low with torps.
we gave them to larger squads, that had enough guys to escort themselves plus an escort or 2.
because we figured that the carriers would be heavily defended we figured we'd lose most of them.
we also figured that since the one carrier was close to the shore, it would be easily defended by fighters.
now we had everyone in 190's and 110 carry bombs, but drop them on the runway. we wanted a second wave.
we gave our biggest squads defense of the bases hoping most of them would survive and we gave most them 190's.
the plan was to probably lose most of the first wave, the allies get somewhat disorganized. the defensive groups would do the best
they could, and survivors would rearm.
all survivors loaded bombs, and headed for the boats to kill whatever was left over.
well apparently this was a pretty good strategy, because we wiped out all the boats, there were still plenty of defenders around, but they
were so spread out they were useless and we came in with numbers.
it was probably the best FSO ive ever been involved in. it was exciting to the end!
Great job by the defenders and a Big <S> to my 2 premier squads, JG11 and the 412.
maybe the allies should learn what squads and planes people are good in, and use them to their strengths. because of the points involved, I would've gone light on the base attacks, and heavily defended the carriers, that might have changed things for the allies.
-
i was a ju88 with torps and i was never touched by a fighter going into the boat it was very well planned and the execution of the plan was even better. Just my 2 cent :salute
-
Taking a look at the suggestions here and planning for Frame 2 Objectives, which will be out sometime today.
-
Bannor praised the raid on 128 but despite the super efforts of everybody involved it was a fiasco.
B25s slaughtered for zero return. Mossies and Typhs required to dive into ack to attack and nowhere to run afterward.
Guys didn't have a hope of returning from that.
The plane types aren't a mismatch IMHO. The tasks are.
After seeing the logs I see your point. They Typhoons were scouted but still managed to get in and hit the field fairly well. There was a squad at the field defending while we were almost 1 full sector away to the west. Before 1/2 of us got back we had the report on the B25s and still had alt, so we turned back to intercept. After a few passes I had a lone spit tenaciously on my 6 all the way back to the field so I was a little pre-occupied to notice anything else for a bit.
The attack was something I envisioned somewhat, with a Jabo wing coming in from the North and Bombers with Spit escorts coming in from the west. The spits tangled with our scouts and were behind the bombers when the rest of us started with the intercept. I think if they were more out in front it might have saved a few for the drop. Hard to say when things start happening though. :salute
-
The AKs had a great time. Our Spit IXs were slaughtered over A128. But our Typhoons paid back in full. It was a great mission.
Not really a chance of recovery to a land base in England; way to far to go home. We recovered to C55 minutes before it was sunk by BF110s.
Fun frame. :aok
-
A delay in the launch of the typhoons would have made a big difference. North of the objective we were scouted and preceded to 128. I made two attacks before we were told to withdraw. The fur ball that happened north of 128 was difficult to disengage from with the squad fighting pretty good as a unit. I stayed until bingo ammo. I fled the scene noe but came up about 200 yards short of landing on the CV.
A little coordination or planning for time on target would have made it much greater difference for the Allied effort. :airplane:
-
Cane the idea was generally for the Typh mission to get there ahead of the high mossies and B25s. It wasn't supposed to be an all arrive at the same minute deal.
Bannor's report shows how near it went to working despite the lanes of travel for us being so constricted that a blind baby could draw out our ingress paths.
The problem with distances to get home to friendly fields from so deep over the continent, that you had to land Typhoons on a CV, illustrates vividly a difference in the tasking.
The Axis were able to pre-plan and execute a second strike for their Jabos while the Allied group were landing their's on CVs.
-
Cane the idea was generally for the Typh mission to get there ahead of the high mossies and B25s. It wasn't supposed to be an all arrive at the same minute deal.
Bannor's report shows how near it went to working despite the lanes of travel for us being so constricted that a blind baby could draw out our ingress paths.
The problem with distances to get home to friendly fields from so deep over the continent, that you had to land Typhoons on a CV, illustrates vividly a difference in the tasking.
The Axis were able to pre-plan and execute a second strike for their Jabos while the Allied group were landing their's on CVs.
Yes, this is a problem. Ideally, the distances between take-off bases and targets will be balanced between the sides. Not necessarily all being close enough to mount second strikes, but at least equal amounts per side.
In my opinion, poor objective selection is a major contributor of the FSO population decline over the last year+. Too often, objectives are either too close and a majority of players are dead before T+45 or so far away that action after T+60 is impossible. Not enough players are getting their 2 hours worth.
-
Devil I think your second para sums up my views very well. I know that both of us love the opportunity to keep going to the bitter end and beyond, but I also pay respect to the guys who have to get up and work the next day and I have so much respect for and debt to the people that put these things together!
(I also have a theory that seems good for the last 6 months - whatever side I am on gets wiped out in the first hour!) :banana:
-
Looks like Nef has taken everyone's suggestions into consideration and changed 3 parameters for frame 3.
Hopefully it has the desired effect.
<S>
-
Yes, this is a problem. Ideally, the distances between take-off bases and targets will be balanced between the sides. Not necessarily all being close enough to mount second strikes, but at least equal amounts per side.
In my opinion, poor objective selection is a major contributor of the FSO population decline over the last year+. Too often, objectives are either too close and a majority of players are dead before T+45 or so far away that action after T+60 is impossible. Not enough players are getting their 2 hours worth.
Do you have a suggestion or examples for good distances between objectives?
In the end, the CIC and his squads are what determines the actual flight times between objectives. The CM can only separate them by miles on map. A 30 minute direct flight at 20K, might be a T+59 strike to one CIC while another CIC might make it a 15 minute NOE flight.
This is my first FSO in over a year I think, I tried to keep the objectives close together for second strikes. The Axis had the advantage that they could rearm and refuel close to both their attack and defense objectives, while the Allies were only close to their defense objectives. A definite advantage for the Axis, that has been corrected for frames 2 and 3.
Another thing that keeps popping in FSO conversation is radar gaps and coverage. Is that something that needs to be revisited for FSO?
-
Distances or not, as one of the 412th defenders @128 I was quite surprised at how fast the allied strike got over there. I'd expected something at least sometime after the dawn hours but as it was the sky had hardly begun to get light when the Tiffs were spotted just outside the dar ring. The B-25s were spotted a few minutes later about where we thought they might be but their high escorts decended unseen out of the dark skies on our scouts. They never saw them. Clearly the darkness was part of the allied plan and it worked out to the point of their jabos at least getting significant damage on 128. But then again, as Dantoo and others have said, the routes of ingress weren't exactly difficult to figure out. On a different map, with easier routes in, the attackers might have never been seen before they hit their targets.
That said I've long been a detractor of night in the game. It's fun to take off, but fighting in the dark with short icons is just a straight up joke. These are all daylight aircraft after all.
And all THAT said my frame ended in broad daylight as I was looking down for some ships. Spits nailed me from above. Never saw them either hehe! Wakey wakey, Drano!
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
-
opps meant Frame 2 in my previous post.
-
I still believe the typhoon launches should have been held for 5 mins. I show the typhoons hitting 128 at 22.31 the B25s and mossies came under attack at 22.38 that 7 minutes allowed the axis to reset for the next attack. We were dealt with as individual attacks rather than a coordinated attack by a large unit. :airplane:
I never said that we should hit the target at the same time. But I do think before launch we should have the time on target for all attackers and be held to it.
-
I had fun until the very end when I had 6 190s chasing me and I cartwheeled into the water. Got a ditch though. :devil
I was one of the 190's in the area of your demise and as I reviewed the film I was amazed that you got a ditch out of that. You faceplanted, half the aircraft disappeared under water!!!
You guys came in over our group of 190's searching for the ships in that grid. We were completely surprised by your appearance:)
Very enjoyable 1st Frame.
<S> to all.
-
IDK, anymore when these things like this come up and folks get into what they see as the nuts and bolts of it all I just get the same feeling pretty much everytime........ Many it seems want the easy way, or the definite advantage.
Now one cannot argue the disparity between the object points, when I saw that I was :confused: Both sides should probably have had 1 land base target, and 1 TF to hit.
I think the plane set favors the Allies, but I would not say by a huge margin.
In the end, my thoughts are with Jaeger1...... Planning!! I say that based on the mission we led. We were assigned to hit TF 51.
We launched with 8 formations of JU-88's, and 9 escorts.......... Read that again if you have to. I had 1 scout to use to find the TF, which I knew was going to be in the northern part of it's assigned sector.
5 of the formations went into target sector at 12k, the 3 JU's with torps ran a geometry run on the waves. The CV was hit with torps and sunk. He made it into target untouched by enemy fighters, there were simply none near him. I had maybe 3 on me, and the 3rd was shot down well before ack from the TF started firing at him.
The Cruiser was dive bombed, as were 1 or 2 DD's. We had 2 RTB.
So 3 JU-88's drew all the cover for that TF down to the deck? Because our 10k guys reported no fighters at their alt.
I hate to say it, and no offence to anyone out there, but we simply had no business pulling that one off.
HUGE Kudos to the 68th and Menacing Ferrets for their role as escorts, and to MachNix ( 1841 Squadron) for locating the TF.
Maybe that was the mission on the allied side that was light pilots?
Did everyone understand the 2 TF's were HIGH priority targets? What didn't get sunk counted as points for the Allies, you all understood that correct? So there was a great incentive to defend them well....... VERY WELL!!
Maybe I totally misunderstood that and I am wrong? Let me know if I am.
Now in the upcoming frame we get to hit a city strat, and defend one........ Should be interesting to see if, and how the dynamics change in a weeks time.
Cic's will have to look a little harder at plane, and squad assignments, some squads are going to most likely pull 2 frames in bombers, heck maybe 3 now.
I would not expect second strikes in frame 2, with points tightening up as they will, escorts will need to concentrate on getting surviving buffs home, because going into a city strat at low alt with AAA set to .4 is basically a suicide run so I would count low JABO's out, but that's me.
In the end I cannot speak for our escorts, or scout for that matter, but we had fun. We were successful in our role in frame 1 and that's what matters to us
:salute
jdog
G3-MF
-
IDK, anymore when these things like this come up and folks get into what they see as the nuts and bolts of it all I just get the same feeling pretty much everytime........ Many it seems want the easy way, or the definite advantage.
Now one cannot argue the disparity between the object points, when I saw that I was :confused: Both sides should probably have had 1 land base target, and 1 TF to hit.
I think the plane set favors the Allies, but I would not say by a huge margin.
In the end, my thoughts are with Jaeger1...... Planning!! I say that based on the mission we led. We were assigned to hit TF 51.
We launched with 8 formations of JU-88's, and 9 escorts.......... Read that again if you have to. I had 1 scout to use to find the TF, which I knew was going to be in the northern part of it's assigned sector.
5 of the formations went into target sector at 12k, the 3 JU's with torps ran a geometry run on the waves. The CV was hit with torps and sunk. He made it into target untouched by enemy fighters, there were simply none near him. I had maybe 3 on me, and the 3rd was shot down well before ack from the TF started firing at him.
The Cruiser was dive bombed, as were 1 or 2 DD's. We had 2 RTB.
So 3 JU-88's drew all the cover for that TF down to the deck? Because our 10k guys reported no fighters at their alt.
I hate to say it, and no offence to anyone out there, but we simply had no business pulling that one off.
HUGE Kudos to the 68th and Menacing Ferrets for their role as escorts, and to MachNix ( 1841 Squadron) for locating the TF.
Maybe that was the mission on the allied side that was light pilots?
Did everyone understand the 2 TF's were HIGH priority targets? What didn't get sunk counted as points for the Allies, you all understood that correct? So there was a great incentive to defend them well....... VERY WELL!!
Maybe I totally misunderstood that and I am wrong? Let me know if I am.
Now in the upcoming frame we get to hit a city strat, and defend one........ Should be interesting to see if, and how the dynamics change in a weeks time.
Cic's will have to look a little harder at plane, and squad assignments, some squads are going to most likely pull 2 frames in bombers, heck maybe 3 now.
I would not expect second strikes in frame 2, with points tightening up as they will, escorts will need to concentrate on getting surviving buffs home, because going into a city strat at low alt with AAA set to .4 is basically a suicide run so I would count low JABO's out, but that's me.
In the end I cannot speak for our escorts, or scout for that matter, but we had fun. We were successful in our role in frame 1 and that's what matters to us
:salute
jdog
G3-MF
:aok
I can't clip out all the good points in this on phone
:salute jdog and rest of G3
-
Another thing that keeps popping in FSO conversation is radar gaps and coverage. Is that something that needs to be revisited for FSO?
Gaps and coverage definitely make a difference. We use the dar circles to typically indicate "flashing" range. Rarely is there any actual radar coverage.
Base flashing is necessary in FSO imho because we want the players in FSO to have a strong chance of interaction, even if it is just seeing an enemy fleeing after they have shot up the bar area.
You could look at the map we are currently using, look at the circles in use and say "hey there are a lot of gaps"! But of course flashing isn't limited to fields, it also affects citys and factorys. Knowing AH2s limitations, a person practiced in the dark arts, can immediately deduce the position of any plane that flashes 2 objects.
This makes it very easy for me as a defender to move whatever guns I have to the most advantageous position I can achieve.
Without that full coverage, I have to start tasking scouts, putting standing patrols in risky blocking positions and taking risks on my ability to use the strongest fist against the softest nose of the opposition. If it's a long flight for the attackers and there are just one or two routes inbound without alerting, then its easy to throw a scout in that hole, or worse.
As a defender, if I receive the gift of alert coverage that extends well out from a target area I can (and almost always do) push a fighting group way out on what is often the only plausible ingress route. I can use that group to harass and torment the attackers gradually consuming their cover and simultaneously constantly alerting other groups to position themselves to maximum effect. I can also do that if there was no alerting but only by increasing risk the further I push it. That's the kind of challenge that defenders should be set.
I also use a clock. In FSO you typically know where they are coming from, when they are leaving, where they are going, and often enough what route they are forced to take. You can calculate easily and accurately when something or another should be flashing. If it isn't by a certain time you now know they are coming "the other way". You have that 1 hour rule that forces attackers into a very narrow range of choices when there is a long way between home and target.
If designers remain aware of a few of the parameters then they can be adjusted for effect. Faster late war aircraft like B29s require a larger alert circle than an ingress of Vals.
I don't think it is too much to ask of planning CICs to have to think about the tasking beyond sticking a squad name in an XL slot in a type that those guys didn't get last week.
I also believe that FSO is largely made up of "fighter preferred" squads that particularly dislike getting issued with lumbering targets more than one week a month and would prefer a slower rate than that.
Giving any person a reasonable chance to complete their mission and return home alive is a worthwhile objective for designers and planners and is likely to produce an immersed player happy with her experience.
-
Dantoo, excellent post.
A lot of players have made some good points also.
Some think the planeset favors this side or the other and others think the number of targets to attack and defend need adjusting. Others have a totally different opinion.
To me it seems the most important aspect of each frame is planning. Given a reasonably thought out event, planning is the reason for winning or losing.
-
Do you have a suggestion or examples for good distances between objectives?
In the end, the CIC and his squads are what determines the actual flight times between objectives. The CM can only separate them by miles on map. A 30 minute direct flight at 20K, might be a T+59 strike to one CIC while another CIC might make it a 15 minute NOE flight.
In my mind the ideal range from takeoff field to target is between 4 and 5 sectors (100-125 miles assuming 25 mile sectors). Late war setups, with many fast movers should be even more distant. Closer distances promote quick action, but some people don't like the idea of potentially being dead by T+30. But many also do not like long flights before seeing combat. Also, an active field for an attacker should NEVER be closer to an objective than a field for it's defenders. (been a while since I saw this happen, but it's worth mentioning)
Let's look at the objectives for Frame One. I drew brown rings with a 5 sector radius from each objective.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Map_zpsa2ojlb00.jpg~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/Map_zpsa2ojlb00.jpg.html)
A128 was by far the most distant objective with only one active Allied field within 125 miles (and just barely within)
TF51 was the next farthest, with three Axis fields inside 125 miles.
TF55 and A118 had the opposite issue with bases within 100 miles with some very close at nearly 75 miles from enemy fields.
Last frame was a double -whammy with objectives either being very close or too far from active airfields.
I think that I must redefine my claim of "poor objective selection" to include "poor active field selection" as well. Maybe even more so the later, as event designers often set fixed active bases for the entire design. If we think of the range between these as the problem to be solved, then having two variables to adjust from frame to frame should allow for a more consistent balance.
The other factor to consider in promoting action post T+60 is the availability of non-active fields towards the middle for rearming and landing at the end of frame. These forward bases allow for a timely turn-around of fighters. Usually a return flight to one's original field will occupy too much time for any reasonable attempt at second sorties.
These issues usually manifest themselves on maps with large bodies of water. BOB being one of them. Any squad based in the west will have almost no opportunity to find action at T+60. Of course, squads in the east have a much easier time.
-
I propose next FSO we have a square map with a field on each side and everyone gets a stick (sorry you have to make your own airplane sounds on vox) :devil
-
IDK, anymore when these things like this come up and folks get into what they see as the nuts and bolts of it all I just get the same feeling pretty much everytime........ Many it seems want the easy way, or the definite advantage.
Now one cannot argue the disparity between the object points, when I saw that I was :confused: Both sides should probably have had 1 land base target, and 1 TF to hit.
I think the plane set favors the Allies, but I would not say by a huge margin.
In the end, my thoughts are with Jaeger1...... Planning!! I say that based on the mission we led. We were assigned to hit TF 51.
We launched with 8 formations of JU-88's, and 9 escorts.......... Read that again if you have to. I had 1 scout to use to find the TF, which I knew was going to be in the northern part of it's assigned sector.
5 of the formations went into target sector at 12k, the 3 JU's with torps ran a geometry run on the waves. The CV was hit with torps and sunk. He made it into target untouched by enemy fighters, there were simply none near him. I had maybe 3 on me, and the 3rd was shot down well before ack from the TF started firing at him.
The Cruiser was dive bombed, as were 1 or 2 DD's. We had 2 RTB.
So 3 JU-88's drew all the cover for that TF down to the deck? Because our 10k guys reported no fighters at their alt.
I hate to say it, and no offence to anyone out there, but we simply had no business pulling that one off.
HUGE Kudos to the 68th and Menacing Ferrets for their role as escorts, and to MachNix ( 1841 Squadron) for locating the TF.
Maybe that was the mission on the allied side that was light pilots?
Did everyone understand the 2 TF's were HIGH priority targets? What didn't get sunk counted as points for the Allies, you all understood that correct? So there was a great incentive to defend them well....... VERY WELL!!
Maybe I totally misunderstood that and I am wrong? Let me know if I am.
Now in the upcoming frame we get to hit a city strat, and defend one........ Should be interesting to see if, and how the dynamics change in a weeks time.
Cic's will have to look a little harder at plane, and squad assignments, some squads are going to most likely pull 2 frames in bombers, heck maybe 3 now.
I would not expect second strikes in frame 2, with points tightening up as they will, escorts will need to concentrate on getting surviving buffs home, because going into a city strat at low alt with AAA set to .4 is basically a suicide run so I would count low JABO's out, but that's me.
In the end I cannot speak for our escorts, or scout for that matter, but we had fun. We were successful in our role in frame 1 and that's what matters to us
:salute
jdog
G3-MF
:aok :salute
-
if each side has 4 objectives, that equates to 25 per objective(give or take), whether it be attack or defend. people need to learn what the average turnout for each squad is, what that squads strengths and weaknesses are and how to best use them in a setup.
to me this setup comes down to the Allies were out planned, out maneuvered, and out calculated. Alpo and I spend 2.5 nights on the phone and probably 8 or more hours of planning. we asked questions of nefari as to what was allowed and what wasn't so as not to break any rules. we used
everything to our advantage.
its easy to blame CiC's, but we all have lives. I didn't want to give up 8-10hours of my free time, but I did it for the game and to make it fun and realistic.
I think ALL players should be involved in CIC planning so that everyone can learn just how complex it is. its no easy chore from the many times ive done it. I now try to let my squaddies try it out also, so that they get a feel for it.
its easy to sit there and say "well, change this and change that". We were task with specific situation for specific targets under specific conditions.
we did our job! period. better luck next time!
maybe all the Allied CO's should get together on the phone or Skype and plan their next frame TOGETHER. then things might go better, and they can all learn from each other. better tactics lead to better experiences which leads to more fun. communication is key.
-
if each side has 4 objectives, that equates to 25 per objective(give or take), whether it be attack or defend. people need to learn what the average turnout for each squad is, what that squads strengths and weaknesses are and how to best use them in a setup.
to me this setup comes down to the Allies were out planned, out maneuvered, and out calculated. Alpo and I spend 2.5 nights on the phone and probably 8 or more hours of planning. we asked questions of nefari as to what was allowed and what wasn't so as not to break any rules. we used
everything to our advantage.
its easy to blame CiC's, but we all have lives. I didn't want to give up 8-10hours of my free time, but I did it for the game and to make it fun and realistic.
I think ALL players should be involved in CIC planning so that everyone can learn just how complex it is. its no easy chore from the many times ive done it. I now try to let my squaddies try it out also, so that they get a feel for it.
its easy to sit there and say "well, change this and change that". We were task with specific situation for specific targets under specific conditions.
we did our job! period. better luck next time!
maybe all the Allied CO's should get together on the phone or Skype and plan their next frame TOGETHER. then things might go better, and they can all learn from each other. better tactics lead to better experiences which leads to more fun. communication is key.
I am a BIG supporter of planning for an event. Some squads don't and some do. Nothing is more frustrating than planning with up to 4 squads and 1 squad is unresponsive all the way up to 5 to 10 minutes after launch...
I also believe in having my squad mates work on our squad and group planning. It develops strategic and tactical planning thinking. I like to keep my squad informed down to the details. Perhaps this is why we have success. Yes. This is a game. In the MAs, we fly loosely. Somewhat intoxicated. And we have fun engaging and taking bases. We hate defending in the MAs.
But when I comes to FSO, we run it as a military organization. Some of our guys are R/L combat pilots (retired guys). Many of us come from other fields in the military. One of us come from the spec ops community. Several from the "ground game". The rest are very serious about FSO. We practice and train for upcoming events. FSO is a different animal altogether. For this reason it is why I stress communications between the squads to reach the objectives.
My 2 cents in this is that if you put in the effort you should succeed or have a REALLY fantastic flight. Especially if the other side planned just as hard. That is what makes it fun. FSO for many of us is pretending we are back in a real life combat environment. There is something soothing to my soul about that.
As Jaeger said. Putting in the hours planning and conducting squad training really brings it together for our squaddies. Everyone seems to have fun. Especially if / when the plan works. Having a helicopter pilot, 2 fighter jocks, an attack jock and a C130 navigator has its benefits. It is cool to watch the changes on the fly when something doesn't start to go as planned when our guys start with the math in public. We use math and geometry all the time to gain advantages. And it works every time. I think once, in over 6 years of doing this we ended up about 30 seconds behind a planned schedule. That is not bad....
I highly recommend everyone involved in planning for your squads, should get involved in reaching out to supporting squads within a group to work together. I know a lot of squads that like working with us when we reach out.
<<S>>
SlipKnoT
-
I am a BIG supporter of planning for an event. Some squads don't and some do. Nothing is more frustrating than planning with up to 4 squads and 1 squad is unresponsive all the way up to 5 to 10 minutes after launch...
I concur.
-
You can plan for hours and hours and write the best orders you can imagine...and it won't be worth a damn at T+20...
All this wailing and gnashing of teeth over imbalanced scenarios is way out of context...
If the scenarios were "even" would they even be fun??? If you knew the outcome of the scenario was gonna be a draw every frame, would you even be here...Or if you knew that you're at a disadvantage from the start are you gonna try harder to be successful???....Or are you just gonna lay down and take it???
I don't know anymore...And this hasn't been spoke of out of the squad...but I'll let y'all know...we're about done with FSO....we all love it...we all look forward to it on Friday nights....and we give it our best every Friday night...I think the reason we love it so much is because we KNOW for a fact that we are at a disadvantage every frame...and we do great....I just don't know anymore....
-
Puller..... "Don't rage quit Bro"
<S>
-
Puller..... "Don't rage quit Bro"
<S>
:rofl :rofl
Rage quit...no...we do good and all love it...
As I said in my previous post...I just don't know anymore :(
-
:rofl :rofl
Rage quit...no...we do good and all love it...
As I said in my previous post...I just don't know anymore :(
If we were neighbors this is where I would invite you over, go in to the garage, crack open a couple of cold ones and we would just sit and relax a bit. I would then remind you that although imperfect, this is the best there is. I'd tell you to remember why you enjoy it so much, I would list off a bunch of names of your friends that play and would miss you. I would tell you that by re-creating these little pieces of history we remember the brave men that fought this war and honor them in our own way. I would tell you to take a little break, take your wife out to dinner and a movie. Take a weekend fishing trip.
Then log back in, goggle up, and roll down the runway with your friends.
-
Devil!!!! you gave away my secret plans?!!! what the hell!!!!! LOL :D :bolt:
-
Devil!!!! you gave away my secret plans?!!! what the hell!!!!! LOL :D :bolt:
I think the secret was out when we deep six'd their ships! :devil
-
You've outlined the point very well devil.
Pls tell me those 3 TFs marked (not targets) on your map weren't in play at all. If they were it was absolutely pointless trying to do anything but just drive straight a to b.
-
You've outlined the point very well devil.
Pls tell me those 3 TFs marked (not targets) on your map weren't in play at all. If they were it was absolutely pointless trying to do anything but just drive straight a to b.
Those ships were indeed there on game night, but they were either Allied or Neutral.
-
if they were allied, you could've used them for cover, while egressing or ingressing. That's what I would've done!
-
They were definitely HOSTILE toward Axis planes. I remember a pilot from one of the fighter squads saying something about a bunch of ships right off the coast, when I told him that they were not a target he said something to the effect of "Then tell them to stop shooting at me!" :rofl
-
They were definitely HOSTILE toward Axis planes. I remember a pilot from one of the fighter squads saying something about a bunch of ships right off the coast, when I told him that they were not a target he said something to the effect of "Then tell them to stop shooting at me!" :rofl
:rofl