Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Open Beta Test => Topic started by: Chilli on June 14, 2016, 02:18:58 PM
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I love the feature incorporated with the mouse controls, when navigating the mouse wheel controls the speed at which navigation travels.
If this were available to control the speed of the "pan" action :uhoh when changing "hat views", I think it would add a whole new dimesion to situation awareness, especially with default and lower FOV. :cool:
Now that I think about it a slider in view options would probably work better, but the description of the desired travel time is better described in comparison to the navigation application.
Just another ChiLLi wish that I'd hope would be an aid to gameplay and cautiously hopefully it would add very minimal coad. :bolt: <-- Speedy retreat from ridicule for injecting wishlist posts {and hides behind a bottle of Speyburn} offered up as a token. :embarrassed:
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Check box for instant views.
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Yes, FLS the pan view does work now but too fast to process. What I am hoping for is the ability to pan slower. Currently the head whips around to the hat view. I am thinking that a slower (or customized pan speed) will allow the hat switch to produce more fluid head movements as opposed to the "almost" snap view.
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What's the advantage of slower panning? Aren't you better off just looking where you want to look?
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Nope. The huge disadvantage of the lower FOV settings is that you do have to look at precise angles. For example a plane above you and off to either side will not show in your look up view. You can test what I am saying by sitting on the runway offline and observe how easy or difficult it is to track the circling drones. Hypothetically, panning will give a more fluid track. The real question is whether or not it is something HiTech decides is a feature worth the effort.
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The fastest full coverage solution to the 80 degree field of view is combining snap views. That's why you always want to have the up view mapped to a button you can press while using the hat, if you use hat views. Combining the up view with the hat views gives you the overlapping view fields. The narrower FOV is also why the "look forward" view is set to look between the front and front/up view.
With the Keypad it's already easy to combine views.
You can also pan any speed you like with the mouse view.
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Engaged in close combat it is not advantageous to combine key punches or use mouse look. In the type of situations that I am talking about, I currently depend on the 3D sound of the attacking plane to approximate its position. However, without getting a visual, sound tells me little or nothing about attitude of that plane (is he diving in or climbing away, does he have a guns solution, or are you successfully scissored out of range?).
The mouse look does have scalable speed and has been very helpful as you point out and I even have a mini stick on my throttle that allows me to use it while in combat. The problem is the control is very bad.
My conclusion, allowing a more "fluid" customizable pan speed would give precision control and natural feel of movement, and improved situation awareness which is my goal.
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You can have instant 360 degrees up, down and all around by programing buttons on your controllers.
I have the look up view programed on my throttle. On my joystick I have all the other views on my hat switch.
By using the combination of the two controllers you have complete view in any direction around your aircraft or vehicle.
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You can have instant 360 degrees up, down and all around by programing buttons on your controllers.
I have the look up view programed on my throttle. On my joystick I have all the other views on my hat switch.
By using the combination of the two controllers you have complete view in any direction around your aircraft or vehicle.
That is how I had mine setup before I went to track ir.
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Engaged in close combat it is not advantageous to combine key punches or use mouse look...
...My conclusion, allowing a more "fluid" customizable pan speed would give precision control and natural feel of movement, and improved situation awareness which is my goal.
It's easy to use a hat and button at the same time. It's also easy to hold down 2 keys on the keypad.
Panning your view slowly seems unlikely to be advantageous in combat when you compare it to instantly looking.
Your stated goals would not be realized with adjustable pan speed.
I do agree that you should visually track the bandit you're fighting. Practicing combining your hat views with "up" will make that easier.
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Eh....... So....... Using 2 buttons is better than using 1? I do concede that a slower pan speed may not be desirable for others. Thus, I merely ask for a customize option (without knowing the cost in its implementation), I also concede that it may not be a worthwhile task as far as HTC is concerned.
Now, unless my memory has totally failed me, it seems that we used to have something similar in AH1. I recall an option of the pilot view originating in the tower proceeded to the runway and then cockpit. That transition speed was custom and could be instantaneous (instant, is what we have now).
My "argument" :
- Slower pan transition speed is more natural and would fill in the gaps in vision at lower FOVs.
- The narrow focus on the center of vision of the lower FOV is missing the periphery vision.
- The illusion of true eyesight on a 2 dimensional screen is aided by a larger FOV, but at the cost of scaling to a smaller size.
- TIR and VR headsets are VERY superior tools for quickly locating objects in the periphery of hat positions.
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This reads like you want a variation on F8 where you can control the pan speed of the Num_Key inputs with a slider.
If you are using your hat and keyboard for views, set Mode 3 so that you toggle into F8 and your hat takes the place of the NumPad directions. Then set a key to return you to the pilot's default view so you can shoot. As for a key press speed control, Wish List. Test F8 if your hat is mapped for views and see if it responds.
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Yes Bustr. But as I explained to FLS, this type of movement is clumbsy at best. I even have a mini stick on my throttle that does look around. No matter how much you practice, it will never land your view precisely as does the hat switch.
The wish is to have that precision (discussed above) and just the option to slow the pan speed a bit, which allows me to scan the in between views. Currently the pan is just shy of instantaneous and tested sitting on runway offline with default FOV, it simply zips past big bright red icons so fast, they are not noticeable.
Please test for yourself, and see if you can catch a drone just circling offline just past your side hat view. If my eyes were to pan to the side it would catch the drone. Yet, the hat switch pan speed is so fast that you don't or it is indistinguishable.
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The simple solution is to look at the view with the red icon in it.
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Chilli,
You are asking for a key press speed control.
Wish:
Dear Hitech,
Please implement a key press speed control so I can slow down the keys or buttons I map for views.
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The hat view pan speed control is your thumb.
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It is called transition. Maybe HiTech knows what I am asking for; simply wishing to give a more natural head movement to the hat view looks. The advantage being a fuller coverage of in between views1 during the pan transition, especially useful for default FOV.
Even a dot command which then would not need to take up space on the view options menu.
It's not that big of a deal unless HiTech has reasons, which I totally respect. Other than that, the more I try and explain it the farther from what I am asking others seem to go. Why would I want to slow down a button press? Has anyone gone offline and tried to see?
The F8 or mouse look views are NOT precise. Meaning I cannot predict where they will look and cannot look around the seat without making two separate motions (turn around and then move to the side).
Correct me if am wrong. If you do not select snap views, the view look will transition from the forward position to whatever view the corresponds to the hat position you have chosen. 1If that transition were customized to take longer to reach that position, the brain/ eye :uhoh will identify targets along this travel route. Currently it zips by so fast, it is indistinguishable.
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Chilli, you need to let me hook you up with TracIR. If you don't like it you can always send it to someone else to try. Pretty sure though, that in a week or so you will wonder how you ever flew without it. Seriously though, I am more than happy to hook you up, no strings attached. I look at it as a contribution to the betterment of MY experience in Aces High :rock All I need is a mailing address! I am selective, but you know my situation and I appreciated your thoughtful messages. Please think about it!
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A simple test:
- Set your field of view to default
- Go offline to A1 tower on Greebo's CraterMA
- Make sure that you are NOT using snap view (View Options)
- Look back using the hat switch designated
- Did you notice the 2 barracks to the side of the tower?
- Now look to the right side, to see what I mean
- Then try and explain to me why a slightly slower transition (if desired) is not more natural
- If you missed the point of the exercise, please read prior post
1stpar, Thank you so much for your generous offer. Sending you a PM. You are a gentleman. :salute
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It is called transition. Maybe HiTech knows what I am asking for; simply wishing to give a more natural head movement to the hat view looks. The advantage being a fuller coverage of in between views1 during the pan transition, especially useful for default FOV.
Even a dot command which then would not need to take up space on the view options menu.
It's not that big of a deal unless HiTech has reasons, which I totally respect. Other than that, the more I try and explain it the farther from what I am asking others seem to go. Why would I want to slow down a button press? Has anyone gone offline and tried to see?
The F8 or mouse look views are NOT precise. Meaning I cannot predict where they will look and cannot look around the seat without making two separate motions (turn around and then move to the side).
Correct me if am wrong. If you do not select snap views, the view look will transition from the forward position to whatever view the corresponds to the hat position you have chosen. 1If that transition were customized to take longer to reach that position, the brain/ eye :uhoh will identify targets along this travel route. Currently it zips by so fast, it is indistinguishable.
Here's how it works. If you want to see the side view before the rear view you simply look at the side view before you look at the rear view. You don't need to slow down the pan speed to use the rear view to see the side view. This also has the advantage of letting you pick which side view, left or right, you want to see.
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Yes Fugitive gets it :banana: With the exception, "So what your looking for then is an every man's version of trackIR but with a thumb on a hat switch instead of a head movement.
FLS,
Why don't we let HiTech decide what he wants to do or not do. You obviously don't see what I am talking about and although I appreciate your input :salute It has nothing whatsoever to do with what I have presented. Sometimes we need to step back and let someone else (HiTech) take a fresh look.
The entire intent is to aid the use of default FOV without the loss of situation awareness (the reason why 95% of the players will immediately change from the default settings). I have insisted that a slower transition will cover the areas that are missed when using FOV is near default of 80%. The simple test in prior post proves that although the head swings in the direction of the objects, it does so quickly (thus my discussion on speed of transition) that even an object larger than a plane a few feet away are not visible...... exclamation point...... period.
To more specifically answer FLS, the side view or any other view that can be mapped of course can be seen, it is the corner angle views that will gain visually. If HiTech decides this is too costly or simply doesn't like the idea, I have no problem with that. As he says wishlists are usually ideas that the originator thinks is great but in practice are poor concepts.
I simply thought it would promote the use of default FOV, and be more ready to play out of the box for the majority of the customers. No skin lost for me, I know how to change FOV to 106.
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So what your looking for then is a poor man's version of trackIR but with a thumb on a hat switch instead of a head movement.
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You obviously don't see what I am talking about ...
When you divide 360 degrees into 8 level views the result is 45 degrees. With a FOV of 80 there is sufficient overlap. There are no missing in-between views.
I understand you want to increase the time it takes to check 6. This would not help your SA. And how are you picking which side you scan as you pan to the rear?
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When you divide 360 degrees into 8 level views the result is 45 degrees. With a FOV of 80 there is sufficient overlap. There are no missing in-between views.
I understand you want to increase the time it takes to check 6. This would not help your SA. And how are you picking which side you scan as you pan to the rear?
Then why do players (myself included) use drastically increased FOVs? Perhaps half a second probably less to turn to 180 degrees, certainly would not hurt SA as much as missing the attacker at my high or low 4 o'clock.
My hat settings now just using one of the two, I can look:
- back and around my headrest
- forward head to the side
- angled up and front
- up overhead
- left over wing
- left and back
- angled up and back
- right over wing
So, if I look left and back it pans left, back and around headrest pans right. Looking angled up and back pans overhead towards the top of headrest / cockpit frame. (Not 100% sure on up view about to log in to check || edit: angled up and back twists to the right and then up).
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I understand your idea. You want to slow down the pan speed so you can look at the side views while the view slowly moves to the selected rear view. This lets you skip selecting the side and quarter views but you still get to see them in passing. You don't see a downside to the slower 6 view. Did I miss anything?
I still think your best option is to look at each view and control the hat "pan" speed by selecting each view in turn with your thumb. This also makes it easier to stop and look at anything interesting that pops into view.
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It is called transition. Maybe HiTech knows what I am asking for; simply wishing to give a more natural head movement to the hat view looks. The advantage being a fuller coverage of in between views1 during the pan transition, especially useful for default FOV.
Even a dot command which then would not need to take up space on the view options menu.
It's not that big of a deal unless HiTech has reasons, which I totally respect. Other than that, the more I try and explain it the farther from what I am asking others seem to go. Why would I want to slow down a button press? Has anyone gone offline and tried to see?
The F8 or mouse look views are NOT precise. Meaning I cannot predict where they will look and cannot look around the seat without making two separate motions (turn around and then move to the side).
Correct me if am wrong. If you do not select snap views, the view look will transition from the forward position to whatever view the corresponds to the hat position you have chosen. 1If that transition were customized to take longer to reach that position, the brain/ eye :uhoh will identify targets along this travel route. Currently it zips by so fast, it is indistinguishable.
Doubt you will ever even get close to IR tracking with the hat.
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This is sounding more like he wants a transition zone between contiguous view directions.
Something like if he looks left wing then looks right wing the transition is normal(instant). But, if he is looking right wing then changes the hat to right back, there is a slower panning transition through to the right back view. And he wants a speed control that goes from instant to "next month".
TR in 2-axis mode (pitch,yaw) works kind of like this because it inherits the HPS file head settings.
Maybe from his PC during the snap change of views, he gets a blurring of his ability to see things like Icons during the transition. And this is what he believes will be the solution to that blurring transition zone.
TrackIR will fix this for him if that offer from another player is in force.
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Yes Bustr that is more of what I was saying, with the exception, that I feel that it would be advantageous to anyone using default views for the first time. HiTech and FLS have educated me well on the facts on view angles. The problem still exists for anyone who has tried a close combat dogfight with default FOV, you can't see JACK. The slower panning motion would be extremely helpful in acquiring targets while using narrow views (80 percent).
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And now you open a new can of worms to confuse and frustrate a neophyte.
The new player just barely understanding our view system and getting used to it and our demanding air combat. Is probably just as prepared to understand being told he can make scaling adjustments to the speed of the view transitions as he is prepared to understand scaling his x,y axis for his joystick. All there as advanced concepts to enhance his ability to compete in our air combat if or when he can understand what some well meaning vet is blathering about. Most people just want to play this game and the basic views and controls give them that ability.
By the time most newbies get around to understanding stick scaling, they are then vets who have mastered and passed beyond the limitations of the basic system. Rather than one of many having been chased out of the game by it's complexity and very unkind realities of air combat. And one of the first things a newbie will find out is to change their FoV to something easier to use the default view system with.
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I use a 90 field of view, forward cockpit views are ok at that setting. I have overall default set at 112, and use the zoom button I have mapped to get the 90 ish fov setting for level flight and shooting. It is somewhat difficult to track hard maneuvering contacts in the 90 ish fov, so a flip of the switch and I have wider views to keep track of the bugger. So maybe being able to set each head position to its own field of view setting? tighter for front and then some what wider to sides and really expanded for the SIX. That would do I would think,the field of view settings have big influence on panning speed, as tight view just seems so much faster than in a wider view. I believe that is the problem you are trying to figure out? A one size fits all views can make things a bit tricky, for me they did. Of coarse a variable speed pan option could work also! I could never get it just right, snap would miss everything in between head positions and pan was almost as bad.. That's why I jumped at TRACK IR. Each axis is speed programmable for actual head movement to in game head position. I fiddle with those curves quite often depending on my level of difficulty, some days just turning my head makes my legs go numb :headscratch: Dang nerves! So far I have yet to run into any problem that a tweak of the curves cant fix!
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And now you open a new can of worms to confuse and frustrate a neophyte.
The new player just barely understanding our view system and getting used to it and our demanding air combat. Is probably just as prepared to understand being told he can make scaling adjustments to the speed of the view transitions as he is prepared to understand scaling his x,y axis for his joystick. All there as advanced concepts to enhance his ability to compete in our air combat if or when he can understand what some well meaning vet is blathering about. Most people just want to play this game and the basic views and controls give them that ability.
By the time most newbies get around to understanding stick scaling, they are then vets who have mastered and passed beyond the limitations of the basic system. Rather than one of many having been chased out of the game by it's complexity and very unkind realities of air combat. And one of the first things a newbie will find out is to change their FoV to something easier to use the default view system with.
Easy Bustr, Chilli is just making some suggestions. It maybe a little late but its never too late. Newbies would pick up on any additional features HT adds. :joystick:
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Bustr,
You are correct, I do wish that the "out of the box" feeling for everyone would improve with this new feature. That means that I would suggest a slower pan to be the "default" head movement. If that feature is not well received by the players, a simple check box in the view options turns it off. That in itself is a lot simpler that logging out and changing the FOV to ????
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At some point you need to trust Hitech knows what he is doing and that is why the clipboard is not wall to wall check boxes to turn things off.
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Actually Bustr,
I do trust HiTech. As far as a check box, that isn't necessary. Making slower pan speed the default and adding a dot command for customizing the speed, could do the trick. The check box is already there for pan mode. So, again if HiTech doesn't see it as advantageous or something easy enough to implement, so be it.
So in the end is it simpler to be frustrated by poor FOV related loss of SA in close combat, possibly endure endless rants about how AH2 was better (even worse iL2 was better), or attempt to improve the "default" settings for a more natural head movement with realistic scale?
I have a feeling that HiTech will not like this idea, but would have much more practical reasons, which he need not discuss with me. That decision is his and would be quite fine with me.
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After reading this thread FWIW I completely understand what Chilli is saying and asking for and also FWIW I also completely agree w\ Chilli as I have also asked for this very same item to be considered on this BBS some years back and also on the BBS in the other game that Hitech created for some years back as well.
I believe it would be a good thing for AH to have the option for users who want and will continue to use a traditional viewing system w\ this game to have the ability to set up and control the panning speed of the viewing transitions as this is the sole reason for having a pan view in the 1st place....so why not also consider to give the user the ability to control the speed of the panning view transition w\ the traditional viewing system to their tastes? I hope we do realize that the resolution of the view potentiometers are getting better, the quality of this equipment is getting better and so this request isn't so far out of bounds I would believe to ask for.
This makes absolute sense to me.....but I'm not the creator of this game.
Heck for years I've wanted a little more engine management control in this game to use and for years didn't know that Hitech had already included some of this until just a few months back....in fact, had included it for YEARS back.
The point is, it never hurts to advocate for a request to add an item one feels is important to the overall immersion aspect to this game on this BBS as you may never know.......Hitech just may be listening and you never know.....it may just show up.
So there's 2 players that agree on this aspect being a viable choice to add.
:salute