Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: MADe on June 27, 2016, 04:27:46 PM
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What is it that we really want out of a ww2 flight sim?
What is realistically possible to deliver concerning todays technology, with the game plays intent, a multi player flight sim?
How do you keep player interested in same basic game for years on end?
How much of flight sims is truly niche play?
Now obviously AH does touch on all these questions in some aspect or another, but maybe ............................. .
Why was it so hard for a large portion of FA players to crossover to AH? to the point that many stopped flight sims or went console and fps's/tanks.....
Now I have my own view point on this but I'd like to hear others.
Too much doom and gloom topics of late, the sky is falling yada yada.......
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I'm not so sure I understand at all the criticism the game has received in the last few years. I still find fights. I still find fun. There could be 6 people on, and I'd manage to have fun. Some of funnest fights I've had were at 7 am EST with 10 total people on, in a sequence of one-on-one dogfights with some Aussie getting ready to go to bed. I suppose people miss 600 people being on and diving in and out of a 120-plane furball. I can see that being fun. But I didn't play AH or FA back in the salad days, so I have no frame of reference from which to contribute an opinion. Other than the bloody, gripping, fixated addiction I have for the current game.
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1) I want to have other live folks to fight against in fighters.
2) It is not what can be delivered but what folks do with what is delivered.
3) Don't just build a game, build a community.
4) I like flight sims. AH is the only one I have played for years now. Not all folks are interested in flight or WWII. I would not call it a niche as not all folks are interested in FPS either.
5) I came over from FA and have been here from almost the start.
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What is it that we really want out of a ww2 flight sim?
I want all out combat, more so instant action. Many players wanting to learn the game more in depth. I want want 2005-2011 AH, but that also has the eye candy that pulls people in.
is realistically possible to deliver concerning todays technology, with the game plays intent, a multi player flight sim?
How do you keep player interested in same basic game for years on end?
Simple, keep the game more complex. Players have to want to learn the mechanics. Offer many new options, features, game modes, and arenas.
Now obviously AH does touch on all these questions in some aspect or another, but maybe ............................. .
Why was it so hard for a large portion of FA players to crossover to AH? to the point that many stopped flight sims or went console and fps's/tanks.....
Now I have my own view point on this but I'd like to hear others.
Too much doom and gloom topics of late, the sky is falling yada yada.......
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1. I like multi-human on multi-human fights. I don't have an interest in flying around unopposed on a terrain or flying against AI. That's basically single-player stand-alone gaming and is vastly inferior to multiplayer gaming. I vastly prefer many-on-many to one-on-one fights. I.e., single-player = 1 on fun scale; one-on-one = 10 on fun scale; many-on-many = 100 on fun scale.
2. Just about anything can be done with today's technology.
3. You probably can't keep a player interested forever unless that player is me or 715b. We are the only ones I know who are still playing AH and AW before that from the late 1980's. Most people, at some point, drift off. That is because they are weak! ;) It seems that keeping the game up to date and folding in occasional user input on changes here and there helps keep people longer. So do squads, community, and (I hope) special events. Scenarios are what has been my main motivation since the mid-late 1990's.
4. Flight sims are niche play compared to the whole world of gaming, but not a small niche (considering the various WWII aircraft games these days).
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Why do the subscribers who never come to these forums keep subscribing in the face of all the doom and gloom trumpeted in these forums?
Some day soon, AH3 will go live and AH2 will cease to exist. A "negativity bloc" in these forums have laid the bricks to a foundation for a negative AH3 reception over the last two years. On face value, as though they want AH3 to fail more than they want to enjoy a resurgence of the game. One could easily observe the negative forum population for the last two years enjoying the ability to crush the hopes and dreams of others for AH3, as their personal solace over unfulfilled dreams and petty issues with Hitech from AH2.
How does a player not want to cancel their subscription after casually reading the ongoing "negativity bloc's" constant message of the game is doomed and so are you for bothering to care? You watch every voice of positive support for AH3 assaulted in the same manner you watch in Facebook, Twitter and other social media driven by a single minded Borg political correct assault. It distills down to this:
Aces High is doomed because it's all Hitech's fault and you are scum for supporting Hitech and not our negativity bloc's crusade to force Hitech to save our game.
The only visible doom for AH3 has been banging a drum in these forums for the last two years. Other wise, Hitech has chosen to keep to himself what AH3 will be until day one of AH3 go live. Then you will no longer need to hold crystal ball sessions here in the forums to try and counter the "negativity bloc" crusade.
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1. I like multi-human on multi-human fights. I don't have an interest in flying around unopposed on a terrain or flying against AI. That's basically single-player stand-alone gaming and is vastly inferior to multiplayer gaming. I vastly prefer many-on-many to one-on-one fights. I.e., single-player = 1 on fun scale; one-on-one = 10 on fun scale; many-on-many = 100 on fun scale.
I'm 100% with you on this. I also prefer it to be random, not knowing who, how many, what plane or high high they might be.
3. You probably can't keep a player interested forever unless that player is me or 715b. We are the only ones I know who are still playing AH and AW before that from the late 1980's. Most people, at some point, drift off.
You might be surprised there are more here than you think. I've been playing about 25 years, starting with AW, then WB, and now here AH, (also called "Valhala").
I do agree that those who quit are weak, we call them quitters.
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1) I want to have other live folks to fight against in fighters.
2) It is not what can be delivered but what folks do with what is delivered.
3) Don't just build a game, build a community.
4) I like flight sims. AH is the only one I have played for years now. Not all folks are interested in flight or WWII. I would not call it a niche as not all folks are interested in FPS either.
5) I came over from FA and have been here from almost the start.
These are pretty much my answers as well.... tho I didn't play FA long. (the community wasn't very helpful and the planes flew like crap). I did have a few years in AW. Came over to AH just after they dropped the price from $30 to $15. Been here ever since. (add me to your list Brooke!)
#2+#3 are the biggest ones.
I think that is what made AH so great during its hey day. Back then there was a friendly community. Yes we had friendly trash talking back and forth but it was just that friendly. There wasn't any bullying, there weren't any clowns being @zzes just for the notoriety. It was one big happy family. Squad against squads fights lasted most of the night and when they were done if you bumped into one of them in a bar afterwards you didn't have the need to rearrange his face.
There were tank battles, fighter furballs, raids and base captures galore. You didn't want to furball tonight, you could find fights in GVs, or join porking missions/raids, or help grab a base or two. Everyone was into PLAYING the game. Now it seems more like they are looking for ways around things in the game. Quickest easiest way.
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I've been playing about 25 years, starting with AW, then WB, and now here AH, (also called "Valhala").
Sorry, Zoney -- yes, you are quite the old timer as well! <S>! I count anyone who has been in the genre since, say, the early 1990's as an old timer. 1995 and later, though, are noobs! :old: ;)
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(add me to your list Brooke!)
And the Fugemeister! :aok
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I'm not an old timer - only reason I've not been playing in the last few months - after a week at work where people cant grasp the basic concept of how to reboot a computer, let alone do anything on there - I dont want to be sat in front of one playing all hours.
Did consider deleting my account - but that's not going to happen - when I do find the time, I'm sure it'll be fun to get up and die repeatedly again.........
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Wurz! <S> to the Wurz!
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Sorry, Zoney -- yes, you are quite the old timer as well! <S>! I count anyone who has been in the genre since, say, the early 1990's as an old timer. 1995 and later, though, are noobs! :old: ;)
not fair, :ahand I did not even know how to turn a PC on until 1998 or so. I only ever played FA and AH. The 2 games are more similar than different.....
maybe I will add a noob noseart to my collection.
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There could be 6 people on, and I'd manage to have fun.
Agreed. Provided, however, that the six people want to fight each other.
- oldman
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What is it that we really want out of a ww2 flight sim?
peoples on peoples air combat, unplanned, uneven sided, adhoc WW2 like combat, realistic physics as realistically possible for game play. AH is missing the ability to be and use ground troops.
What is realistically possible to deliver concerning todays technology, with the game plays intent, a multi player flight sim?
I think its safe to say that the only thing lagging behind is internet connection latency's and the actual realtime feel, when online feels like offline bang zoom...
How do you keep player interested in same basic game for years on end?
peeps need a vested interest in the game beyond price tag..and actual gameplay. This has been achieved in some respect already, community involvement in skins, maps, sounds, but it could go a lot farther...
How much of flight sims is truly niche play?
considering how many peeps want ai only combat or flying just a pc......................yes
Now obviously AH does touch on all these questions in some aspect or another, but maybe ............................. .
Why was it so hard for a large portion of FA players to crossover to AH? to the point that many stopped flight sims or went console and fps's/tanks.....
most were basically lazy and pouting because we lost our game, some would have rather seen AH fail and so were being petulant, some had older pc's that just could not handle AH. When FA died, there were still 400+ players flying AH and poor pc/internet performance was a downer.
Most baby boomers luv ww2 nostalgia, the new generation to impatient.
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Re griping, there's a selection bias at work. Few people get all riled up and pound off a forum rant about how happy they are. Good news is no news, or something like that. For every negative post, there a probably a dozen folks who are quietly content.
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There's a corollary to this in an old Italian saying: Le madri di stronzi sono sempre incinte. Sad but true.
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I have loved this game since the first time I downloaded it, got a plane in a hanger, hit the E button and listened to the engine start! whats not to love about this game.
here I am 10 years later, I get to help out one of the Arenas, and I still love it as much as I did that first day. just wish there were more people in the AVA, but short of that, ill play til I have a coronary while playing the game! and I have some shade accounts so I can run around and no one knows who I am!
Jaeger1
CO JG54 "grunherz"
<S>
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I've been playing AH since like early 02ish. Seems to go in cycles as far as numbers of players. I think we are just in a down cycle (hopefully AH3 will bring more back). Everyone was worried when we went from AH1 to AH2 (I miss the sea monster map and old, old tank town). The game is still as fun as it was the first time I played it so many years ago.
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There's a corollary to this in an old Italian saying: Le madri di stronzi sono sempre incinte. Sad but true.
Sadly this is true much of the time. At least under that condition she has an excuse.
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I've been playing AH since like early 02ish. Seems to go in cycles as far as numbers of players. I think we are just in a down cycle (hopefully AH3 will bring more back). Everyone was worried when we went from AH1 to AH2 (I miss the sea monster map and old, old tank town). The game is still as fun as it was the first time I played it so many years ago.
Ahhh the octopus, the big beer bottle, and the UFO. LOL
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Hey there is still a UFO static object available to terrain builders. You can see it from the AH3 skin viewer if you install the beta.
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Few people get all riled up and pound off a forum rant about how happy they are.
Listen here! I am happy with this game! I love scenarios! I LOVE AH! ;) :aok
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Listen here! I am happy with this game! I love scenarios! I LOVE AH! ;) :aok
No disrespect here, but your being a cheerleader. he he
:salute
I am looking for what it is about flight simming beyond the graphics and the initial thrill.
In order to keep my interest, cuz the game itself can get boring, I build my own flight controller gear. I made up a bunch of noseart. I would skin planes but I'm not interested in only historical accuracy. I have even been learning how to make plane objects. Now most will not go this route, making chits is what I do, but they have a way to keep themselves interested. What is it?
Peeps banking mucho future on VR, well its pricey, u need a modern pc to drive it, more pricier, so is it gonna draw and keep players in AH?
Remember that the basic gameplay will not be changing, once the initial hardware thrill is gone, is VR gonna create player longevity?
My 1 requirement is numbers, I just want what it must have been like. I did the BoB 2 years ago, it was great. My schedule just does not jive with best gaming times. I'm limited to just jumping in whenever I can. 2010 AH had 300+ on average a night, thats diminished a bit. Plus its a squad oriented sport IMO. I want the team work aspect, I have not found a fit yet tho, and numbers are down...................so for me, by hook or crook, AH, HITECH, needs to increase the client base.
:airplane:
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If you haven't found a squad fit you need to hit us up...we'll make it interesting for you... :salute
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What is it that we really want out of a ww2 flight sim?
"We" don't want a WW2 Flight Sim. "We" want a WW2 themed GAME.
What is realistically possible to deliver concerning today's technology, with the game plays intent, a multi player flight sim?
We have it. It can get prettier. More AIRCRAFT, vehicles, boats, etc... always nice and more better. :devil
How do you keep player interested in same basic game for years on end?
You don't, unless the player is inclined to it already. Although, "community" weighs in here as a heavy.
How much of flight sims is truly niche play?
What niche? It's all niche... there's different niches. There's niches in niches.
Why was it so hard for a large portion of FA players to crossover to AH? to the point that many stopped flight sims or went console and fps's/tanks.....
It wasn't. They didn't want to. And the big one... it takes a little effort.
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3. You probably can't keep a player interested forever unless that player is me or 715b. We are the only ones I know who are still playing AH and AW before that from the late 1980's. Most people, at some point, drift off.
HEY! Well... 92 here. Signed up as soon as I first heard about AW!!! BUT, I wouldn't have been able to afford that crazy crap before then (not that I could when I started). I've only taken a few "breaks" here and there, mostly for schule and stuff. :old: :joystick: :airplane:
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The simple fact here is that it is a good - even a great game. The players are killing it. They will not fight, they will game the game. THAT is the simple answer and it is within the players to fix it
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1. I like multi-human on multi-human fights. I don't have an interest in flying around unopposed on a terrain or flying against AI. That's basically single-player stand-alone gaming and is vastly inferior to multiplayer gaming. I vastly prefer many-on-many to one-on-one fights. I.e., single-player = 1 on fun scale; one-on-one = 10 on fun scale; many-on-many = 100 on fun scale.
This explains it for me. :aok
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The simple fact here is that it is a good - even a great game. The players are killing it. They will not fight, they will game the game. THAT is the simple answer and it is within the players to fix it
Imagine an automotive manufacturer with sinking sales for almost a decade blaming it on the customers... ;)
The customers are what they are. The players are what they are (and actually they have 'gamed' this game all the time). The market is, what it is.
No player can 'fix' a game. If global player behaviors and preferences are actually changing, it's up to a company to adjust for that. You simply can't "change" the players, nobody has that influence, and certainly not the actions individual players can do.
"If just everybody would..." sounds nice, but never works on a larger scale.
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No disrespect here, but your being a cheerleader. he he
:salute
Absolutely. :aok
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HEY! Well... 92 here. Signed up as soon as I first heard about AW!!! BUT, I wouldn't have been able to afford that crazy crap before then (not that I could when I started). I've only taken a few "breaks" here and there, mostly for schule and stuff. :old: :joystick: :airplane:
And Tumor! :aok
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Imagine an automotive manufacturer with sinking sales for almost a decade blaming it on the customers... ;)
The customers are what they are. The players are what they are (and actually they have 'gamed' this game all the time). The market is, what it is.
No player can 'fix' a game. If global player behaviors and preferences are actually changing, it's up to a company to adjust for that. You simply can't "change" the players, nobody has that influence, and certainly not the actions individual players can do.
"If just everybody would..." sounds nice, but never works on a larger scale.
True perhaps. But the fact is that HTC created a combat game and I presume that is why people come here. However, they avoid combat. That is not in the hands of the creator to fix. No amount of bells and whistles can fix that. I do not understand the mentality of the players that run as soon as an enemy show up, or bail from buffs, or auger rather than give another player a kill. The fact remains though that there are a great deal of these players in the game and it is not fun for those of us that like to fight, therefore we just leave and the others can play without having to worry about being attacked.
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However, they avoid combat. That is not in the hands of the creator to fix. No amount of bells and whistles can fix that. I do not understand the mentality of the players that run as soon as an enemy show up, or bail from buffs, or auger rather than give another player a kill. The fact remains though that there are a great deal of these players in the game and it is not fun for those of us that like to fight, therefore we just leave and the others can play without having to worry about being attacked.
That can be fixed. With a smaller active area of a terrain, people can't play it like a single-player game.
There are two factions: people who want to fly around an not be bothered, and people who want interaction and fights. They aren't compatible groups. If you make a game suited to one, people in the other group eventually leave. My feeling is that there will be more success for this game catering to the group that wants interaction, not the group that wants the opposite.
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fess how hard is it for you and all others who want to fight to communicate with each other and fight till you get tired.
semp
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fess how hard is it for you and all others who want to fight to communicate with each other and fight till you get tired.
semp
It's time to either pull off your blinders or pull your head out of where it is stuck. At late nights it is very difficult to find a fight, as most are just content with attacking undefended bases and avoiding any sort of PvP contact. You don't fly those times so you really don't know what is happening.
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At late nights it is very difficult to find a fight...
Whenever anyone who flies far off peak talks about what it is like, there are always people who don't seem to recognize that 10 pm Eastern is not the same as 2-3 am Eastern; that flying around for 30 minutes in order to find a single 1:1 (which also ends up being a lame 1:1) is not the same as taking off and flying 0.5-1 sector to a great 10-on-10 battle that has been going on for the past hour; or that if you flew off peak once and found a 1:1 without much trouble, that is not necessarily representative of flying 100 times off peak.
It's almost like telling someone, "Man, I really like a nice medium-rare porterhouse steak, baked potato slathered with butter, and glass of Merlot," and a guy is trying to convince you that a McDonald's cheeseburger, cold fries, and diet coke is just as good because it has beef, potato, and beverage.
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True perhaps. But the fact is that HTC created a combat game and I presume that is why people come here. However, they avoid combat. That is not in the hands of the creator to fix. No amount of bells and whistles can fix that. I do not understand the mentality of the players that run as soon as an enemy show up, or bail from buffs, or auger rather than give another player a kill. The fact remains though that there are a great deal of these players in the game and it is not fun for those of us that like to fight, therefore we just leave and the others can play without having to worry about being attacked.
I found that focusing on improving my teammates position in the war to be far more rewarding than running around looking for a dogfight. IMO, serous white knuckle dogfites are great fun that typically get un-funned because you usually get picked or ganged before it's over. So, I guess "Be Flexible" is about all I've got for ya. Works for me.
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True perhaps. But the fact is that HTC created a combat game and I presume that is why people come here. However, they avoid combat. That is not in the hands of the creator to fix. No amount of bells and whistles can fix that. I do not understand the mentality of the players that run as soon as an enemy show up, or bail from buffs, or auger rather than give another player a kill. The fact remains though that there are a great deal of these players in the game and it is not fun for those of us that like to fight, therefore we just leave and the others can play without having to worry about being attacked.
Whenever I've had the opportunity to spend time with people who do those things, they are not naturally game talented like many of the vets deriding them here in the forums all the time. They have either limited time to play, or limited interest in spending their precious limited time training to become as proficient as your self.
And for their $14.95, they did not sign up to fill some one else's belt with their scalp for an unknown amount of time into the future. In that case they would simply cancel their subscription because they are paying to have fun. Not have their manhood defined for them by anonymous Pharisees in an online game who want to force on them the one right and only true way to play Aces High.
Your argument is like telling all of your friends that grade school PeeWee baseball leaguers suck, because they cannot play at your level in High School. All because they don't want to play ball games with you after school.
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It's time to either pull off your blinders or pull your head out of where it is stuck. At late nights it is very difficult to find a fight, as most are just content with attacking undefended bases and avoiding any sort of PvP contact. You don't fly those times so you really don't know what is happening.
you need to get your head out of yours. years ago when I was in a different squad, there were only 5 of us. we used to fight each other for hours on end and that's when the arenas had 600+ online. sometimes there would be only 2 of us and we still had a good time.
I count more people here whining that there's no good fights and want some. well talk to each other, we did back then. set up yourselves for a nice fight and enjoy it. but if that is too much work for you then please do keep whining here.
semp
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Build it and they will come.
Theres community, theres individule, theres game environment...
AH, hitech, can only set guidelines for community and indie's. AH has 100% control of game environment. You can say its the players death, you can say that the community is toxic but that's ultimately the clients domain, AH has minimal influence with a mandate for civility. But the environment, the playing field/stadium is all AH.
One question I would have if I was AH, do I need all the same basic servers, and way to similar gameplay, so redundantly?
MA, yes
AvA, yes
Dueling, yes
MA middle, no
MA early, no
custom, ?????"?
Are these servers so peeps can get mthly kudos for high ranking or is it because 1200 peeps are filling the seats.....
you cannot change the bee, so you make a better flower.
I still find the runaway complaint odd, takes to long to find thing, if you engender the game with certain attributes, advertise its gameplay strategies a certain way, ie: multi-player w2 flight sim, you have to expect some of the cliental to treat it as real as possible. That means the same tactics and techniques you would use in real warfare, staying alive as long as possible????????. Then theres the HO'ers, omg, they do not run but damn I bet u still cuss after that bleepin HO.
One problem right now is the player count vs the map acreage, AH should have downsized the maps automatically to fit the player counts. AH needs to accommodate those that still pay so that the total game experience does not diminish, do to lack of numbers. Stop the cascade affect........
Remember many devs just make new games, that's how they get by.....
:salute
stay on topic and less being nasty please! old grumpy toejams.. :x
:salute
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I have lost count of the number of times I have asked on 200 for people to go to the DA. My approach is usually "DA anyone? Teach, learn or just have fun"
I get a taker about once every 100.
I am not in the game to kick people around, I think it would be better to teach others what I know and then we can have even fights. But in my primetime (Australia) there are so few people on it is hard to do anything. I play World of Warships a lot now.
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im up for another DA with you sometime..
I learnt alot and had some fun..
:salute
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I'd love to the know the finer points of the P51-D if it has any.
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I'd love to the know the finer points of the P51-D if it has any.
think of the pony as a spit8 with a bigger engine. fly it like that for a couple of turns and you will surprise the hell out of a lot of people.
semp