Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: swinger on June 29, 2016, 12:56:43 PM
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Hey there-have the GTX 970 vid card and thinking of getting the GTX 1070?
My comp has 330 watt supply and runs the 970 OK,
I get 130 FPS @ unlimited settings.
Will the GTX 1070 be better and work?
The 970 & 1070 are the same size.
BTW this unit, comp, will not accept a larger watt supply :frown:
TY geagler
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You probably wouldn't see any noticeable improvements. I wouldn't do it. Leave the upgrade for your next computer.
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Disagree, partially anyway - you may not see a lot of noticeable improvements with AH2, but for other games - significant increase in fps/performance when going from 970 to 1070. Would you see a lot more of a noticeable improvement going to a 1080 - yes, but it's also much more expensive, where as you can sell your 970 and for a couple hundred bucks or less more than the proceeds of that sale get any 1070 you want.
There are piles of reviews and comparisons for various games and the 970 to 1070 difference, just google the ones that matter to you. PC Gamer took an aggregate of 15 of the more popular/common games and did a test with video cards very recently, in 1080p, 1440p, and 4k. http://www.pcgamer.com/the-geforce-gtx-1070-review/ . Some games like Doom see only a 25% overall improvement, others like GTA see a 90% increase in FPS almost across the board. So again, it's not a simple question to answer without more info regarding what you play, or plan on playing.
Do some of your own research, then decide. I do agree with Biz though, that for this specific game - I don't think I would bother going from 970 to 1070 - to a 1080, especially for AH3, sure, otherwise, I'd wait as Biz said. If you play other stuff, then by all means.
If $ isn't a major concern, really get the 1080.
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<snip>
Do some of your own research, then decide. I do agree with Biz though, that for this specific game - I don't think I would bother going from 970 to 1070 - to a 1080, especially for AH3, sure, otherwise, I'd wait as Biz said. If you play other stuff, then by all means.<snip>
Just FYI. AH3 is very, VERY dependent on the performance of the video card. The faster the card, the better the game will run.
For AH2, it will not make much difference.
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I was thinking mostly about AH, 2 and 3. As per Skuzzy, a GTX 970 should be able to run AH3 with full eye candy at the current standards, 1020x1080 @ 60 Hz.
Also, in the specifications both cards say 500W for power supply, so that adds to not to upgrade the card on this very computer.
How come you can't install a larger power supply? Is it a <brand> computer that only accepts brand specific dedicated components? If so, there's not much you can do. :frown:
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Again, disagree, I did a lot of testing with 980 and 980SLI with AH3, and neither could run the beta at max 60hz/fps 1080p, especially over large bases down low, without dropping well, well below 60fps. I realize it's early days, and that once at higher alt 144fps was pretty constant with the 980, but if the 980 was tough slugging at lower alts, the 970 will be even more so. You crank every setting including environment to max, at 1080p, not even 1440p or 4k, with a 970, and go fly at 1k over the large base with the drones. Then get back to me on your results, as I know what mine are, on 2 different pcs with 980, 980sli, and 980ti have been. And now, 1080SLI as well - I haven't tried flipping SLI off yet on the 1080 systems, but I don't think it'll make a lot of difference.
Will a 970 be "good enough" for AH3? IMO yes. But it's certainly not going to provide constant 60fps 100% of the time at 1080p, not yet at least from what I've tested.
I realize AH3 is more video card reliant, this isn't the first time we've heard this - haha- and that's the reason why I said if he was buying a new card for AH3, go with the 1080 over the 1070, as the difference from 970 to 1070 and the cost fraction considered doesn't make it worth it for Ah3/beta IMO, since based on my experience with the 1080SLI even THAT is being taxed and unable to provide constant max fps. The 1080SLI, even at low alt over busy/large bases, it's working VERY hard to maintain max fps, and drops below it still. I'm happy to provide film/screen shots of the fps counter with all the cards mentioned above.
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SLI is irrelevant, unless you did a custom SLI profile as the default AH SLI profile, NVidia ships, is no where near compatible with AH3. You can throw 50 video cards at it, and if you are using the default profile, the performance is not going to change much, if at all.
Also, it is BETA. The performance drop over fields is likely due to the collision code, which has nothing to do the with video card. We are aware of it. Again,..BETA,...not optimized at all.
100% of the graphics in AH3 are all done on the video card. The better the video card, the better the overall application will run. That is not an opinion.
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Hey there-have the GTX 970 vid card and thinking of getting the GTX 1070?
My comp has 330 watt supply and runs the 970 OK,
I get 130 FPS @ unlimited settings.
Will the GTX 1070 be better and work?
The 970 & 1070 are the same size.
BTW this unit, comp, will not accept a larger watt supply :frown:
TY geagler
330 watt powersupply would be my worry.... oh and by the way, there are ways to make them fit :devil
Heck you could drill a hole in the side panel big enough to pass the cables through and then just screw the new powersupply to the outside of the case. Pretty? No, but it will work.
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100% of the graphics in AH3 are all done on the video card. The better the video card, the better the overall application will run. That is not an opinion.
Where did I say it was? Which again, was why I said getting a 1080 would be better than the 1070 - better video card and all that.
And yes, I built my own SLI profile using nVidia inspector, the same way I did for past SLI set ups. And yes, it makes little difference having either 1080, 980, 780, or 680s in SLI from my experience. Even with a self created one - the guys over at DCS/ED are big into creating their own SLI profiles, and I sort of applied that info, for better or worse, to the AH ones, along with what Chalenge has said/done over the years with it.
I don't understand this constant bashing me on the head about the video card thing - I've repeated it myself often enough, it's not some big secret that you've said over and over that AH3 will be video card dependent.
I did say several times in this thread and others the words "early days" and "beta" regarding the graphics/fps drop over the main airfield, and have numerous times pointed out the difference from going to the base to the SE on the offline map and how much fps improves. I get 44 fps with a 1080 in sli and a single one, both with a 6800 and a 6900k CPU overclocked, and the card(s) running at 200/500 overclocked as well, when flying low over the default base. Obviously this isn't how anyone would expect it to be once AH goes live, since I get 144 and 165 on the respective monitors with these refresh rates in other areas/altitudes - I'm merely using it to point out that giving advice and guarantees to players considering cards is bonkers regarding AH3, because as of right now, the fastest gaming setups you can buy can't pull off the numbers being quoted and thrown around. Yes I realize this is temporary, but advice should reflect this as well.
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I,m a little confused Gman because just a couple of weeks ago in the thread "970 and AH3 you said " 970 IMO for the purposes of this game, and many others, will suffice and then some for years still. Bonus is for another bit of $, the 1070 will let you run everything out there at max and expect longevity for quite a while." Now you appear to be saying the 970 will probably not be adequate for AH3 and even casting doubt on the performance of the 1070 for AH3. Am I misunderstanding?
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The difference is between 'running well' and 'full eye-candy.' Running well implies that you will have to turn some things off, and 'full eye-candy' almost certainly means you are not trying to get to a constant 60fps.
Two 980s in SLI will not hold a constant 60fps with all the eye-candy on at 4k. I have great doubt that it can even do it at 1080p, because of the environment slider which is pretty hard to satisfy. Shadows, reflections, and environment are not that important to me when I'm playing, but when I'm making videos it's all different. So, if you are buying a card to get all the eye-candy I think you will meet with dissatisfaction like Gman said. Also, it is really obvious that SLI is not a cure all unless a game is designed for it and that there is a profile provided. For whatever reason self-created profiles seem to give inconsistent results.
That's why all those options are there in AH, so you can aim for higher FPS by the changes you make.
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depends, you already mention a weak PSU, will that new card get bottlenecked by something in your system, weak cpu for instance, pcie 2.0 mobo maybe......I use a 970 in a 2.0 slot and it was rockin AH3, AH 2............................ .............
if I was building a new rig, well its no discussion................... .......................
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based on my experience you are not fully taking advantage of the 970 with that weak power supply. and for sure a 1070 is not gonna be good unless you upgrade your ps.
semp
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Gman, I am not "bashing" you. You made an incorrect statement regarding going from a 970 to a 1070 as it pertains to performance in AH3. A 1070 WILL get better performance than a 970 in AH3, at 1080p. The it seemed you were continuing to try and justify that statement.
As it pertains to SLI profiles, I have no idea how the DCS graphics engine works, so it could be way off the mark compared to the AH3 engine.
One thing worth mentioning is, if you are cranking the environment slider to full updates, even an NVidia 1080 will take a major hit in performance.
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Again, disagree, I did a lot of testing---
I agree I haven't tested any of the new cards, I'm just telling what I've read here and there about them. I appreciate your experience here having tested gear with this very game. :salute
--- if he was buying a new card for AH3, go with the 1080 over the 1070, as the difference from 970 to 1070 and the cost fraction considered doesn't make it worth it ---
The original question was about upgrading from 970 to 1070 which we both think wouldn't be worth it. Not knowing the rest of the specs aside the underpowered 330W PSU there's too many unknown factors to wholeheartedly recommend the much better 1080, IMO. Especially since the OP is happy with his frame rates being 130. But again, this is only an opinion.
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It's running good now? I'm shocked with a 330 PSU. I wouldn't change anything in graphics. I would change things so that you can use a bigger PSU, because I think your system is going to have a problem even as it is.
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I asked DELL if it were possible to upgrade the PSU to 750 watts.
They said not possible.:(
My unit is: DELL X51 R2,I know BAD choice,but I did not want to build another comp, did for 2X's.
Looks like I'm stuck with a BAD CHOICE, I would even accept a PSU located outside the comp?
Is it possible?
Thanks Forum people, you sure know your stuff.
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If the computer is built with proprietary connectors (Dell's often are) then no.
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YIKES :furious :( :bolt: :angry:
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eventually you will find a 150W videocard that is worth the buying over a 970. But then you may want to keep a money for a custom built gaming PC
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I think the GTX 1070 is 140 Watt.
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I asked DELL if it were possible to upgrade the PSU to 750 watts.
They said not possible.:(
My unit is: DELL X51 R2,I know BAD choice,but I did not want to build another comp, did for 2X's.
Looks like I'm stuck with a BAD CHOICE, I would even accept a PSU located outside the comp?
Is it possible?
Thanks Forum people, you sure know your stuff.
Anything is possible. If your really interested in a "Frankenstein" type project do your research. A dell powersupply may have a model number on it in which case you can do a google search for the print/pin out of the plugs. You can rebuild the plug using a new powersupply matching the pin outs on that one.
For me .... someone who is comfortable with these types of projects..... I'd still hold off. If your rig runs the beta ok, then don't FIX IT! :D But down the road if money is an issue, you might want to try a Frankenstein project.
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The problem that I have seen out of Dell before is that the PSU is not a standard form, meaning other PSUs will not fit the mounting. The you might consider changing the case, but the case switch and other connectors are not standard either. You can wire that up and then find out the hard drive is also a non-standard mounting. Now, it is possible that my memories are the old way Dell worked things, or partially are memories of HP or Compaq, but those are the types of things you need to be aware of before you go down the rabbit hole.
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Now, it is possible that my memories are the old way Dell worked things, or partially are memories of HP or Compaq, but those are the types of things you need to be aware of before you go down the rabbit hole.
Your memory is not out of date. I have a two yr d Dell desktop I use for rotine stuff. Case fans are a non-standard size, MB, appears to be proprietary, and PSU mounting hole spacing is different from Antec 900 case. HD mounting is standard. I also agree with Figitive. Adding different PSU soul be possible, especially if appearance isn't a concern. I have a set of CH controls that wer ed modified for left hand use.
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eventually you will find a 150W videocard that is worth the buying over a 970. But then you may want to keep a money for a custom built gaming PC
Both the 970 and 1070 are below 150W, one is 140 and the other 145. +1 for saving the money for a custom gamer.
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To ALL, Thank You for the most welcomed replies.
I will stay with my present system.
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Condor - Chalenge pretty much answered that - yes the 970 will run Ah2 and the beta so far, reasonably well, but certainly not at max with environment cranked, or higher than 1080, and maintain 60fps. It depends on what you're looking for. "Suffice" was the exact term I used, and that's accurate IMO, but I was defending a point regarding "running at max at 1080/60fps", which is an entirely different matter than "sufficient".
Skuzzy - I specifically said in the first post I made, I disagreed partially with going to a 1070 not being a great idea. IE obviously it will give some performance increase, however based on the 1080 so far, and the performance that it's giving compared to 980 and 970 cards I just sold... I didn't and haven't tried to "justify" anything. I NEVER said there wouldn't be an improvement from going to a 1070 from a 970, any idiot knows that, what I said was if he was going to upgrade specifically for AH3 - something the OP NEVER even mentioned btw, as he was speaking of "this game", which is AH2 right now, NOT the beta - that he would be better served to go to a 1080, because even the 1080 can't run max right not, not even with 2 of them, regardless of how poor the SLI profile is or not, so going to a 1070 expecting a worthwhile increase compared to the 970, it would be FAR better to go to a 1080, or wait for something even faster.
I'm curious - do you or HTC even HAVE a 1070? How about a 1080? Or a 970 outside of the note book you've mentioned? You scold me for making observations about card performances, yet I have the above cards - minus the 1070 - and the pictures/video/film of them performing in AH2 and beta, and so far as I know, you don't. How exactly is that making me "justifying" my opinion when you're basing yours on not even having tried your software on any of the above, or at the very least, not responding with your observations on the same HW if you DO happen to have it. You said the 1070 will outperform the 970. I think anyone who knows even a slight bit about GPUs will understand that. By how much will it outpeform the 970? See what I mean? I know exactly how much the 1080 will, and the 1070 is going to be a lot less than that - IE I have actual data in hand from observation, not just assumption. Yet I'm "justifying".
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I love that you guys are in this community. I would have wasted around $300 I could put toward a 1070 if it weren't for your threads about the new Pascal tech. You saved me that mistake and I appreciate it. Seriously, you are among the elite bleeding edge early adaptors that plow the way for the rest of us.
Even more so, you will drop $700 this month and it sounds like you're ready to spend maybe $1000 more on their next card within six months. Wooho! I wish I could do that!
I think I'm more the norm. By your standards I'm running a pathetic Radeon HD 6850 with a Passmark of ~2.2k but it's completely playable for AH3 when tuned. No Post Lighting, etc etc. I want more obviously, hence the wish for a GTX 1070 which I expect to run AH3 and everything else I want until the year 2020. But when I'm ready for another card or other hardware, I'll be back in here in plenty of time to see what you guys are talking about and wishing for.
Here's the reason for this post. When someone shows up and says they want to run AH3 with everything turned on it simply shows they don't understand what that means in the context of (multiple?) 4K monitors etc. and unlimited budgets. If I was reading that stuff I'd conclude I couldn't afford the hardware to run this game. There are several questions you guys know to ask that would help, and you know better then I what they are. Heck, you could copy and paste them in one quick motion.
Anyway, thanks for keeping the rest of us up to date on this stuff. From your discussions, I've learned to compare what's available, while keeping in mind that they're just simple numbers for comparison. For me, this is most useful.
GTX 1080 - 12,713
GTX 1070 - 11,920
GTX_ 970 - 8,661
Radeon 6850 - 2,240 LOL
Jumping to a card 5.3 times faster then the one I'm using is good enough for me compared to 5.7 times faster and costing another $200-$300. My experience tells me I won't find enough difference to justify a $100 difference in price.
The 1070 should run AH3 to my standards in my current box, including all the terrain editors. When I need to, I'll upgrade the MB and processor and I'll still be able to see 2020 on this box.
btw, Gigabyte has just announced a Mini sized 1070 card for those with cramped boxes. That's all I know about it but that might help some of the folks with mass produced brand name boxes.
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Calm down Gman. One more time: The statement you made, which I highlighted in bold was incorrect. The 1070 will perform better in AH3 than a 970 will. How much? Might only be 1 percentage point, but it will perform better. The performance gains will depend on the system configuration.
Even you agree, but that was not the initial statement you made.
Yes, we have a 970, 980ti, 1070, and 1080 in house. Yes, I agree, if you have a 970, a 1080 would upgrade makes more sense. Never said it did not make sense.
Not scolding you. Not picking on you. Not beating you about the head and shoulders. Just correcting a flawed statement. No other agenda.
This is what you said:
I don't think I would bother going from 970 to 1070 - to a 1080, especially for AH3, sure, otherwise, I'd wait as Biz said. If you play other stuff, then by all means.
The implication is the 1070 would not get you any performance gains in AH3, but it would in other games. That statement is incorrect.
It may not have been your intent for that statement to read that way, but it certainly can be read that way.
You agree the 1070 would get better performance over a 970 in AH3, then we are on the same page. The performance gain would be the only question.
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A 970 will play any game out there exceptionally well on high graphics. Unless you're trying to run 4K there is no need to upgrade to the 10 series. I would look at upgrading other parts of your computer (depending on what those specs are)
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I say why not go for it. You can probably dump the 970 on eBay and sell it to offset a good percentage of the upgrade...so if you have the spare cash and want it, why not?
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HEY INVIC: U'r right, I'll start buying parts to build a SUPER COMP. Sell my comp with the 970 & have what I'm looking for.
Wouldn't be easier to buy a J3 and have fun in real LIFE?
Wishful thinking.
Again TY
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If you're going to sell your computer, I suppose you might get a better price by selling the 970 and the Dell separately. After all, the PSU is a little underpowered for the 970. Selling them separately would also give you two happy customers instead of one who'd fry his PSU in a year...
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Hey BIZ: Right on, I may stay with the present comp till it Kabooms,
then go for the New Comp.
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I was actually thinking it the other way around: Save the 970, get rid of your current computer for a reasonable price and build a dedicated modifiable SUPER gaming rig around your existing 970. It is a very good card. Then someday when you feel you'd need a little more oomph, upgrade the 970 to whatever is the best bang for a buck at that date.
Also, the Dell you now have has some value without the 970 as a reliable banking/surfing/e-mailing/office computer.
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HEY BIZ: On the track, thanks.
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I was actually thinking it the other way around: Save the 970, get rid of your current computer for a reasonable price and build a dedicated modifiable SUPER gaming rig around your existing 970. It is a very good card. Then someday when you feel you'd need a little more oomph, upgrade the 970 to whatever is the best bang for a buck at that date.
Also, the Dell you now have has some value without the 970 as a reliable banking/surfing/e-mailing/office computer.
This. The perfect advice.