Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Pudgie on July 21, 2016, 10:28:13 PM
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Hi All,
Gonna dive in and take a shot at installing a Samsung 950 Pro NVMe PCI-E 512Gb M.2 SSD on my Gigabyte X99M Gaming 5 mobo (Gigabyte F22 UEFI is NVMe-compliant as well as Broadwell-E compatable) and using it as the boot drive w\ Windows 7 HP 64x SP1.
I have already acquired the MS Hotfix KB2990941 (to provide NVMe support to Win 7 SP1 32 and 64 bit) and installed the x64 version of it in the OS then have cloned the updated OS w\ hotfix on my Plextor PCI-E SSD to my Samsung 850 Pro SATAIII 512Gb SSD (after installing all recent updates and after updating my FuryX to latest Crimson 16.7.3 drivers (WHQL certified)) then have gone into the mobo UEFI and changed the boot order to the cloned OS and have booted up off it so all is well. Have already wiped the Plextor M6e BK PCI-E 512Gb M.2 SSD and it is ready to be removed.
Have already d'ld the Samsung NVMe driver vers 1.1 for the 950 Pro NVMe SSD onto my ghost SSD to install upon Windows boot up into Win 7 HP SP1 OS so that Windows can recognize & use the 950 Pro NVMe SSD then once this is done then I will clone the 850 Pro SATA SSD onto the 950 Pro NVMe PCI-E SSD using the Samsung Magician software to test it (have been using FarStone's free version of DC Clone 11) then reboot into the UEFI, change the boot order to the new NVMe SSD then see if she'll boot up.....................
The Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 512Gb PCI-E M.2 SSD is scheduled to hit my doorstep tomorrow.
Gonna later on attempt to slipstream this hotfix into my USB copy of Windows 7 HP SP1 (that I have already fixed to partition HDD\SSD for UEFI installs) so that it will also install the support for NVMe drives up front.
Wish me well!
:D
:salute
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why not just a fresh install?
Seems to me when dealing with newness, simplicity is best.
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why not just a fresh install?
Seems to me when dealing with newness, simplicity is best.
Will need to build a slipstreamed Win 7 SP1 OS.iso w\ the MS Kb2990941 hotfix to do that as Win 7 SP1 doesn't natively support NVMe (the hotfix provides this support for Win 7 SP1) so I'm gonna try the long way around 1st as all else is already present and accounted for so all I "should" have to do is install the new NVMe SSD in my mobo's M.2 slot as the UEFI should recognize it, boot up then once in Windows after verifying that the drive can be seen (should be seen in Windows as the drive is unallocated) install the 950 Pro SSD's drivers in Windows so the OS should see the new SSD as a NVMe SSD after a reboot (have already installed the MS hotfix in Windows before I cloned it off my Plextor M6e PCI-E SSD which is occupying the M.2 slot on my mobo onto my Samsung 850 Pro SATA SSD) then clone the updated OS on my 850 Pro Sata SSD onto the new NVMe SSD (which should handle all the partitioning, EFI partitioning, boot records, GPT tabling, etc) then reboot into the UEFI and reset the boot order then save and reboot............if all is good Win 7 should boot up off the NVMe SSD.
In the meantime I'm working on the 2nd remedy (which is the better method and what you have mentioned) once I can find a good 3rd party software that I can use to perform the slipstream integration so that I can build a slipstreamed .iso of my Win 7 HP SP1 OS w\ all windows updates including MS KB2990941 added, the NVMe driver added for the Samsung 950 Pro SSD (so I can skip the F6 step) AND modded to automatically partition a drive for EFI partition (for UEFI mode operation) and put it on my USB stick. I already have done this w\ the mod for EFI partition.....should just need to integrate the windows updates and NVMe driver into it once I can find the 3rd party software to do it with.
Tried to download the freeware version of RT 7 Lite this morning off the official site but kept getting a HTTP 404 error so I'm still looking.
FYI........................
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i used a w7 disk to prepare an ssd for wxp install. I wonder if a w10 disk would recognize and prepare an nvme drive for w7. Once assigned a drive letter......
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Pudgie, I use NTLite to build all our ISO, which are then rendered to a USB flash drive.
The only issue you are going to have is trying to apply all the updates. It makes the primary install file more than 4GB, which exceeds the FAT32 filesystem required for booting a USB flash drive.
I understand there are some ways to get around it, but none are very clean.
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i used a w7 disk to prepare an ssd for wxp install. I wonder if a w10 disk would recognize and prepare an nvme drive for w7. Once assigned a drive letter......
According to all I've read MADe, that won't work. You'll need to install the MS KB2990941 hotfix in Win 7 SP1 for Win 7 SP1 to recognize a NVMe SSD as a boot drive. As for storage no problem and no need for the hotfix. Now w\ this hotfix installed you can't do any firmware updates to the NVMe SSD so keep this in mind. Starting w\ Win 8.1 on full NVMe support is native in the OS.
Pudgie, I use NTLite to build all our ISO, which are then rendered to a USB flash drive.
The only issue you are going to have is trying to apply all the updates. It makes the primary install file more than 4GB, which exceeds the FAT32 filesystem required for booting a USB flash drive.
I understand there are some ways to get around it, but none are very clean.
Well if NTLite is good enough for you then it's good enough for me. Thanks ole Wise One!
Yeah I had read some stuff concerning integrating all Windows Updates but the readings that I had read to date didn't mention that tidbit about the FAT32 file system being limited to 4Gb for USB boot up.....only recommended to use a USB stick that was larger than 4Gb capacity....which I was already using a 8Gb stick as I also use this same USB stick to flash my mobo UEFI. Good thing you posted about that..........I woulda been a little pissed finding that out afterwards and having to redo it all over.........
I already have an .iso of my Win 7 HP 64x SP1 OS on it w\ the modded boot files to automatically partition a drive for UEFI during OS install so I was just wanting to add the MS hotfix to it at a minimum (adding the rest of the windows updates was icing if possible) along w\ the NVMe driver for my Samsung 950 Pro so I could skip the F6 function during a clean install of Win 7.
Gonna go get NTLite now.....................
Thanks again for the tip!
:salute
PS--Forgot that I had already downloaded NTLite back in May when I did the mods to the bootefi64 files......................
Man I'm REALLY getting old and forgetful.................... ....
:ahand
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Update:
Installed NTLite and inserted my USB stick.
Opened NTLite and pointed it to my USB stick and loaded my .wim files..............
Saw that my little Win 7 HP 64x SP1 disk actually has all 4 Win 7 64x SP1 OS versions on it, Basic, HP, Professional and Ultimate.............
Integrated each version image .wim w\ MS KB2990941 hotfix so all are done........easy as pie!
All went like clockwork. Remounted all images to check and all showed the hotfix as clean integration.
I skipped integrating the rest of the Windows Updates for now (didn't have the installer located anyway.....save it for later).
But I ran into a little issue when I tried to integrate the Samsung NVMe driver at this time as the driver is packaged as an .exe and NTLite don't like that so I will have to do this after the driver has been installed in Windows to pull out the .inf files to then integrate them into the .wim images.
I was also tempted to integrate the 2 registry hacks in that stops the Win 10 installs as well but this is also too easy to add into the registry after initial OS install so I backed off................for now.
Dismounted all images and shut down NTLite then ejected my USB stick.............muy bueno!
#2 backup plan is now active if #1 doesn't work, outside of NVMe driver install as it appears that Samsung packaged this driver to be installed once the NVMe SSD is installed and ID'd by driver installer in Windows. Checked Samsung's web site again for a .inf version of this NVMe driver and found only the .zip version which extracts into an .exe (driver installer).
Always somebody gotta make us work for it.............
:salute
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Hi Skuzzy,
I got to thinking about this some more and so I went out and found this web site to check to see if there was a Windows reference NVMe driver available to be used w\ Win 7 and it appears that such a driver does exist...............
http://downloads.openfabrics.org/Windows/v3.2/
Is the actual Windows NVMe reference driver the 1 listed for Win 7-or-Svr 2008 R2-or-HPC Edition?
I already noted that the Windows Microsoft Inbox NVMe driver for Win 7 is essentially the MS Kb2990941 hotfix that I've already installed.
If so, is this driver worth the time to integrate into my Win 7 .iso images as it is an open source driver?
Mainly for extended NVMe compatibility reasoning..........I noted that Samsung was 1 of the co-sponsors and so thought that their products would work w\ this reference driver as well?
I'll do the research in time but was wanting your professional opinion on this up front...........
What say ye?
:salute
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Will need to build a slipstreamed Win 7 SP1 OS.iso w\ the MS Kb2990941 hotfix to do that as Win 7 SP1 doesn't natively support NVMe (the hotfix provides this support for Win 7 SP1) so I'm gonna try the long way around 1st as all else is already present and accounted for so all I "should" have to do is install the new NVMe SSD in my mobo's M.2 slot as the UEFI should recognize it, boot up then once in Windows after verifying that the drive can be seen (should be seen in Windows as the drive is unallocated) install the 950 Pro SSD's drivers in Windows so the OS should see the new SSD as a NVMe SSD after a reboot (have already installed the MS hotfix in Windows before I cloned it off my Plextor M6e PCI-E SSD which is occupying the M.2 slot on my mobo onto my Samsung 850 Pro SATA SSD) then clone the updated OS on my 850 Pro Sata SSD onto the new NVMe SSD (which should handle all the partitioning, EFI partitioning, boot records, GPT tabling, etc) then reboot into the UEFI and reset the boot order then save and reboot............if all is good Win 7 should boot up off the NVMe SSD.
Update:
My Samsung 950 Pro 512Gb NVMe M.2 PCI-E SSD didn't get here on Friday but came Saturday afternoon.......
Performed all steps as laid out above and my Win 7 HP 64x SP1 OS booted up just fine and in good order off the NVMe SSD and all is seen in Windows as it should. The only 2 items that I had to change was to update the version of Samsung Magician software to the latest version so it can fully recognize the 950 Pro's NVMe underpinnings (had the version that came out before NVMe hit the scene) and had to use Farstone's DriveClone 11 utility to do the cloning as I found out that Samsung Magician software doesn't do disk cloning (even though I've read that this was supposed to be able to do it in the several reviews of the 950 Pro SSD).
All was looking good until I noted that the SSD wasn't running anywhere close to the rated performance speeds (running at numbers similar to a PCI-E SSD running under AHCI instead of NVMe w\ my X99 chipset showing the PCI-E lane\bandwidth specs of PCI-E 2.0 x2 instead of PCI-E 3.0 x4 (can see all this thru Samsung Magician software).............
Got to digging and sadly found out that on the Gigabyte G1 Gaming series X99 mobos from the entry level up to the Gaming 5 series the X99 chipset will only set up the M.2 slot for PCI-E AHCI mode specs (PCI-E 2.0 lane specs across 2 PCI-E lanes) so my Samsung 950 Pro NVMe SSD is "downclocking itself" to meet these specs and run (backwards compatibility stuff here).....and the ONLY way I found this out was by looking on Gigabyte's web site neatly tucked away in the Specifications section, Storage Interface section of my mobo and seeing the asterik's........none of this and I mean NONE of this can be found in the provided mobo MANUAL that comes w\ the mobo. These mobos CAN still run a NVMe SSD to full speeds but ONLY over the dedicated PCI-E 3.0 x16 slots that BY-PASS the X99 chipset.........
I was a little pissed off when I found all this out.......after the fact.
:bhead
If I had known this before-hand I woulda waited a few weeks then bought this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820249082
At least this would've come w\ a heatsink to assist w\ cooling AND the color scheme would've matched my box to the tee and been real pretty in there w\ the rest of my components............
:D
So I'll have to get a PCI-E to M.2 adapter card that can support NVMe drives to get my Samsung 950 Pro SSD to it's full rated performance levels......which I've already found 1 on the 'Egg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAA6W4827476
Was looking good until this snafu but oh well...............
Well I know that this can be done going the route that I took this time so I got something out of all this.
I will have my fully slipstreamed .iso of Win 7 HP 64x SP1 OS on my USB stick for any future installs.
Hopefully this can be fixed w\ a UEFI BIOS update for this certain series of Gigabyte X99 mobos......................
FYI.........................
:salute
PS--1 thing I did find out was that the Secure Erase function in the Gigabyte F22 UEFI works like a charm.....after getting all this rearranged I used this to clean up my Samsung 850 Pro 512Gb SATA SSD and both OCZ Vertex4 256Gb SATA SSD's and restore them all back to pristine condition w\o any issues. So now I got all Sammy SSD's running in my box and have retired the 2 OCZ's for back up duty. Gonna do the same to my Plextor M6e BK 512Gb PCI-E SSD and clean it up when I get the adapter card in for the 950 Pro.
I just might use this Plextor M6e BK 512Gb PCI-E SSD in the wife's box along w\ 1 of the OCZ Vertex4 SATA SSD's as a ghost drive as I'm planning to set up a NAS on our home LAN anyway....................... ................ Should speed up her Facebook usage............
:D
:salute
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I been reading, I did notice that all the M.2 slots are only x2, 10GB/s, with Gigabyte. It appears only the very latest editions have a single ultra m.2 port.
"ULTRA" being the key word hear.
I believe its not fixable for you in that its how the board is wired. Anyways still reading, guess I'll learn from your troubles.
:salute
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I been reading, I did notice that all the M.2 slots are only x2, 10GB/s, with Gigabyte. It appears only the very latest editions have a single ultra m.2 port.
"ULTRA" being the key word hear.
I believe its not fixable for you in that its how the board is wired. Anyways still reading, guess I'll learn from your troubles.
:salute
You're right, MADe.....this can't be fixed thru the BIOS due to the on board switch being used between the M.2 slot, the SATAe\SATAIII header and the X99 chipset...........otherwise it could and most likely wouldn't have been an issue in the 1st place.
In reality all this is really not a hassle for me......actually it's in a way fun and pleasure as I get to actually work with and do what I love to do........ Can it get frustrating.......heck YES! Can it get costly...yes it can. Is it satisfying when you work thru it and come out on the other side better than when you went into it...............YES, YES, HECK YES!
But I am a confessed computer geek so it's part of who I am..............
:D
This Gigabyte X99M Gaming 5 mobo is really a very good and solid piece of hardware....but it does have some items built into it's design that really need to have been documented and explained better in the manual so that users will have a better understanding of how the devices will interface on this mobo\how some UEFI settings can\will affect devices being used on them so that users can be better prepared to avoid some of the missteps that I've gone thru as once I got thru all of them then looked back on the experience it all came down on having this documentation available up front and could have EASILY avoided them all.
That is the purpose of the manual..................
Now that I have gained some experience working w\ Gigabyte stuff, I certainly won't be shying away from using their products going forward just because I had some pitfalls and set backs w\ this 1.
I know now to just go on their web site and do the research on their products and not to depend solely on the documentation that they provide w\ them.........
I liken this Gigabyte mobo to playing Aces High..........a damn fine product but does have a learning curve to become proficient w\ it......
:aok
:salute
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Here are a couple of bellybutton SSD Benchmark runs, 1 on the Plextor M6e PCI-E ATA SSD and 1 on the "crippled" Samsung 950 Pro NVMe PCI-E SSD:
Note: PostImage.org don't like the file format of the .XTML files so I'll copy\paste the results:
Plextor:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
-<ASSSDBenchmark XmlFormatVersion="1">
-<Information>
<Name>PLEXTOR PX-AG512M6e ATA Device</Name>
<Firmware>1.05</Firmware>
<Controller>msahci</Controller>
<Size>476.94 GB</Size>
<DateTime>7/20/2016 6:17:54 PM</DateTime>
<BenchmarkVersion>1.8.5636.37293</BenchmarkVersion>
<Mode>MB/s</Mode>
<Note/>
<Signature/>
</Information>
-<SeqTest>
<Read>679.70 MB/s</Read>
<Write>631.38 MB/s</Write>
</SeqTest>
-<Random4K1TTest>
<Read>29.47 MB/s</Read>
<Write>69.15 MB/s</Write>
</Random4K1TTest>
-<Random4K64TTest>
<Read>228.02 MB/s</Read>
<Write>193.61 MB/s</Write>
</Random4K64TTest>
-<AccTimeTest>
<Read>0.056 ms</Read>
<Write>0.055 ms</Write>
</AccTimeTest>
-<Score>
<Read>325</Read>
<Write>326</Write>
<Total>826</Total>
</Score>
</ASSSDBenchmark>
Samsung 950 Pro NVMe:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
-<ASSSDBenchmark XmlFormatVersion="1">
-<Information>
<Name>NVMe Samsung SSD 950 SCSI Disk Device</Name>
<Firmware>1B0Q</Firmware>
<Controller>nvme</Controller>
<Size>476.94 GB</Size>
<DateTime>7/24/2016 2:31:50 PM</DateTime>
<BenchmarkVersion>1.8.5636.37293</BenchmarkVersion>
<Mode>MB/s</Mode>
<Note/>
<Signature/>
</Information>
-<SeqTest>
<Read>712.47 MB/s</Read>
<Write>615.63 MB/s</Write>
</SeqTest>
-<Random4K1TTest>
<Read>35.07 MB/s</Read>
<Write>91.83 MB/s</Write>
</Random4K1TTest>
-<Random4K64TTest>
<Read>717.77 MB/s</Read>
<Write>362.88 MB/s</Write>
</Random4K64TTest>
-<AccTimeTest>
<Read>0.054 ms</Read>
<Write>0.034 ms</Write>
</AccTimeTest>
-<Score>
<Read>824</Read>
<Write>516</Write>
<Total>1765</Total>
</Score>
</ASSSDBenchmark>
As you can see, even crippled this NVMe PCI-E SSD outperforms it.
:aok
:salute
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And the crippled Samsung NVMe 950 Pro even beats it's older brothers:
Samsung 850 Pro SATA:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
-<ASSSDBenchmark XmlFormatVersion="1">
-<Information>
<Name>Samsung SSD 850 PRO 128G SCSI Disk Device</Name>
<Firmware>EXM0</Firmware>
<Controller>iaStorA</Controller>
<Size>119.24 GB</Size>
<DateTime>7/9/2016 11:44:17 PM</DateTime>
<BenchmarkVersion>1.8.5636.37293</BenchmarkVersion>
<Mode>MB/s</Mode>
<Note/>
<Signature/>
</Information>
-<SeqTest>
<Read>522.51 MB/s</Read>
<Write>486.59 MB/s</Write>
</SeqTest>
-<Random4K1TTest>
<Read>36.43 MB/s</Read>
<Write>122.95 MB/s</Write>
</Random4K1TTest>
-<Random4K64TTest>
<Read>369.53 MB/s</Read>
<Write>316.96 MB/s</Write>
</Random4K64TTest>
-<AccTimeTest>
<Read>0.038 ms</Read>
<Write>0.027 ms</Write>
</AccTimeTest>
-<Score>
<Read>458</Read>
<Write>489</Write>
<Total>1192</Total>
</Score>
</ASSSDBenchmark
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
-<ASSSDBenchmark XmlFormatVersion="1">
-<Information>
<Name>Samsung SSD 850 PRO 512G SCSI Disk Device</Name>
<Firmware>EXM0</Firmware>
<Controller>iaStorA</Controller>
<Size>476.94 GB</Size>
<DateTime>7/9/2016 11:41:42 PM</DateTime>
<BenchmarkVersion>1.8.5636.37293</BenchmarkVersion>
<Mode>MB/s</Mode>
<Note/>
<Signature/>
</Information>
-<SeqTest>
<Read>523.22 MB/s</Read>
<Write>462.86 MB/s</Write>
</SeqTest>
-<Random4K1TTest>
<Read>36.62 MB/s</Read>
<Write>116.30 MB/s</Write>
</Random4K1TTest>
-<Random4K64TTest>
<Read>366.76 MB/s</Read>
<Write>268.58 MB/s</Write>
</Random4K64TTest>
-<AccTimeTest>
<Read>0.044 ms</Read>
<Write>0.026 ms</Write>
</AccTimeTest>
-<Score>
<Read>456</Read>
<Write>431</Write>
<Total>1130</Total>
</Score>
</ASSSDBenchmark
Looking forward to what I experience when I resolve the issue..............
:aok
:salute
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m.2 is backward compatible so at least your drive gonna work no matter what.
I stepped thru the gigabyte boards and discovered these different implementations. Realized my original form factor choice wrong. Not many boards have PCIe x4 expansion slots either.
I luv gigabyte boards, they just work. Your right about info, you really gotta use the net to understand.
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/spyknee/ATTO3diskRAID0.jpg~original) (http://s785.photobucket.com/user/spyknee/media/ATTO3diskRAID0.jpg.html)
3 disc RAID0 ARRAY, disc's are 30GB ocz vertex with turbo FW.
run ATTO if you would. I'm familiar with that generated graph. U should be getting 10GB/s saturation.
Also now that you went w7, would you do it over and go w10?
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(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/spyknee/current%204%20disc.jpg~original) (http://s785.photobucket.com/user/spyknee/media/current%204%20disc.jpg.html)
my current 4 disc array, SATA 2.
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Hey MADe,
Here is a snippet of this Samsung 950 Pro 512Gb NVMe PCI-E SSD running over PCI-E 2.0 x2 spec lanes:
(https://s32.postimg.org/64vgslu1t/Samsung_950_Pro_NVMe_ATTO_7_24_16.png) (https://postimg.org/image/64vgslu1t/)
Let me know what you think........................ ...........
:salute
PS--Running a test......................
Attaching the same......................
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I would say you are getting beat bad by using the x2 m.2 port. Not that I'm an expert, just comparison of the 2 atto reports.
Mine was from 4, 30GB Vertex SSD's, RAID 0 array, SATA 2. These are old SSD's. I'm close in read/writes.????????
Is w7 optimized to play with....................
OS partition was placed properly?
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I would say you are getting beat bad by using the x2 m.2 port. Not that I'm an expert, just comparison of the 2 atto reports.
Mine was from 4, 30GB Vertex SSD's, RAID 0 array, SATA 2. These are old SSD's. I'm close in read/writes.????????
Is w7 optimized to play with....................
OS partition was placed properly?
The big problem is the M.2 slot thru the Intel X99 chipset PCI-E 2.0 x2 lane specs w\ the 2nd problem being how well does the Samsung NVMe controller chip on the Samsung 950 Pro handle the PCI-E spec down step. NVMe controller cut the link speed in half (4Gbps instead of 8Gbps) since the link width (PCI-E lane count) is cut in half (x2 instead of x4) so the total bandwidth of the 950 Pro 512Gb NVMe PCI-E SSD thru it's NVMe controller (and across the PCI-E 2.0 x2 lanes of the M.2 slot\X99 chipset) is cut to 1\4 capacity (8Gbps instead of 32Gbps) so it complies w\ the Intel X99 PCI-E 2.0 x2 specs that the NVMe controller read from the chipset. This process was confirmed by the Samsung support tech when I called them on this this afternoon after work....the only thing the tech couldn't confirm was the extent of reduction the NVMe controller would set itself to properly align to the chipset PCI-E rev and lane specs used.....dependent on the mobo manufacturer's build specs, vers of PCI-E specs used in chipset and vers of UEFI BIOS used along w\ the specific settings written into it to gain compatibility w\ NVMe. The tech also advised me that it wasn't good to try to use a PCI-E-to-M.2 adapter card w\ their 950 Pro NVMe PCI-E SSD due to compatibility issues\concerns that could make the SSD function worse\brick it and to just stay w\ the M.2 slot on the mobo due to the standards most mobo manufacturers adhere to pretty much ensure that the SSD will work.........may not work to rated performance levels but the SSD will work.
This sheds some light on why this Samsung 950 Pro 512Gb NVMe M.2 PCI-E SSD is listed on the Gigabyte M.2 Compatibility List for my Gigabyte mobo as compatible................... ......
As far as the rest, all is properly set up in Win 7 HP 64x SP1 OS (NVMe support hotfix applied (driver), Win 7 configured for UEFI bootloaders (during prior initial OS install) and Samsung NVMe driver installed) and in Gigabyte F22 UEFI BIOS (boot order setup, CSM enabled\disabled, Storage Option\PCI-E Storage set UEFI first\only) so Windows 7 itself isn't the issue.
I also found this .pdf on Intel's web site that I thought is a very handy reference to have onboard to assist users to successfully set up various mobos and OS install media to successfully boot Windows 7, 8 & 8.1 OS's off of a NVMe PCI-E SSD (of course they reference the Intel 750 NVMe SSD's......) so I have saved a copy for myself.
:salute
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nice on the boot guide, made a copy myself. Shows how to at least navigate the bios to get things active/recognized.
Considering going w10/64. I will have to get a license either way, so........
U cannot use the SATAe port with an adapter? This should give you x4????
Also a pcie x4 expansion slot, does that board have one?
What someone needs to make is an adapter that fits the x16 slot, but not 16 lanes. x16 or x1 seems the only existing pci slots now. Sadly NVMe is not backward compatible. Use of it means latest chipsets.
I think its only the m.2 port that's not 32GB/s capable with your particular board. You also could upgrade the mobo??? migrate all the existing stuff to it.
I'll bet it still runs nice tho. Do you get go response from w7?
I made my build choices. Waiting for stocks to be replenished. Seems others think like moi.
:salute
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Amazon has the U.2 adapters that support x4 for M.2 cards. Some have mounting solutions (drive shells like) while others do not. I thought the ASUS X99 Strix board is supposed to give straight up M.2 x4 speeds, but I will have to double check to be sure.
I don't think it is really 32GB/s but 32Gb/s? Yeah, bit and not Byte.
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboard-Accessories/HYPER_M2_X4_MINI_CARD/
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nice on the boot guide, made a copy myself. Shows how to at least navigate the bios to get things active/recognized.
Considering going w10/64. I will have to get a license either way, so........
U cannot use the SATAe port with an adapter? This should give you x4????
Also a pcie x4 expansion slot, does that board have one?
What someone needs to make is an adapter that fits the x16 slot, but not 16 lanes. x16 or x1 seems the only existing pci slots now. Sadly NVMe is not backward compatible. Use of it means latest chipsets.
I think its only the m.2 port that's not 32GB/s capable with your particular board. You also could upgrade the mobo??? migrate all the existing stuff to it.
I'll bet it still runs nice tho. Do you get go response from w7?
I made my build choices. Waiting for stocks to be replenished. Seems others think like moi.
:salute
The SATAe port cannot be used due to the switch that Gigabyte installed on these 2 lanes ahead of the X99 chipset (switch will enable only 1 device at a time on these 2 dedicated PCI-E 2.0 lanes...if M.2 slot is populated you lose the rest, SATAe port is populated you lose the rest, either SATA4 or SATA5 or both SATA4,5 are populated you lose the rest). Look at the Gigabyte mobo block diagram for my mobo and you'll see this..............
This mobo is a microATX design.....only 3 PCI-E 3.0 x16 CPU-dedicated and 1 PCI-E 2.0 x1 X99 dedicated slot so no PCI-E 3.0 x4 physical slot onboard.
I can still get this Samsung 950 Pro 512Gb NVMe PCI-E SSD up to rated speeds but I will have to put it on a PCI-E-to-M.2 NVMe-compliant adapter card and run it on my spare 2nd PCI-E 3.0 x16 slot (got a PCI-E-to-USB 3.1 adapter card installed in the 3rd PCI-E 3.0 x16 slot and Sapphire R9 Fury X vid card in 1st PCI-E 3.0 x16 slot). These 3 PCI-E 3.0 x16 slots by-pass the X99 chipset, run direct to the Intel LGA 2011v.3 socket and are set by the on CPU-die DMA\PCI-E\mem access controller which IS PCI-E 3.0 spec compliant and WILL set the full 32Gbps bandwidth thru it for the NVMe SSD and since the OS was installed on a UEFI partitioned drive w\ Windows EFI Bootloader and the UEFI BIOS EFI bootloader will also find the NVMe SSD regardless of whether it is mounted so no issue.
It is these dedicated lanes that can allow a NVMe SSD to run on older mobos.......as long as the mobo has PCI-E 3.0 spec tracing (8GT\s), an Intel Ivy-Bridge CPU (these CPU's have full PCI-E 3.0 spec DMA\PCI-E\mem access controllers on die), an available PCI-E 3.0 x4, x8 or x16 dedicated slot that goes direct to the CPU socket and a UEFI BIOS upgrade available that supports NVME.
At 1 time Asus put out a petition to users to see which older platform (Asus X79 or Z87 mobos which both were built w\ PCI-E 3.0 spec 8GT\s lane tracing) users wanted Asus to provide an upgrade UEFI BIOS to bring NVMe SSD support to (I participated in it) and the X79 platform was the runaway winner in the survey but it was taking Asus too long to develop it for my mobo (and I also had broke the locking clip off on the 1st PCI-E x16 slot that secured the back end of my vid card in the slot....all still worked w\o it but this bothered me and I couldn't find ANY replacement Genes for less that $400.00 regardless of condition) so I moved on to this Gigabyte X99M Gaming 5 mobo to fix the slot clip issue, get NVMe M.2 support along w\ a pedestrian CPU upgrade and DDR4 mem....otherwise I would've still been on my ole trusty Asus Rampage IV X79 Gene ROC mobo\Intel I7 4820K IB-E CPU platform as it was still far more than powerful enough to handle games w\ ease and running a NVMe AIC PCI-E SSD.............
I bought this particular Gigabyte X99 mobo as Gigabyte was the ONLY manuf that made a X99 mobo in microATX factor....Asus stopped after the X79....................
Yes it does and yes sir, Win 7 performs very fine now.........................
:D
Nice build list.............you'll be in heaven once all together.
:salute
Amazon has the U.2 adapters that support x4 for M.2 cards. Some have mounting solutions (drive shells like) while others do not. I thought the ASUS X99 Strix board is supposed to give straight up M.2 x4 speeds, but I will have to double check to be sure.
I don't think it is really 32GB/s but 32Gb/s? Yeah, bit and not Byte.
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboard-Accessories/HYPER_M2_X4_MINI_CARD/
Thanks for the link, Chalenge!
I'm definitely gonna go there.........but that new Plextor M8Pe AIC NVMe 512Gb PCI-E SSD is trying.....to.......seduce me.......must resist.............
:aok :D
:salute
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so your saying that there is a PCIe x16 adapter can can be used for your Sammy Sung?
Link please.
Yeah I'm bumming, 2/3 of my newegg cart went away to out of stock. No one has a X99 Taichi mobo to sell. My ram choice as well..................
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so your saying that there is a PCIe x16 adapter can can be used for your Sammy Sung?
Link please.
Yeah I'm bumming, 2/3 of my newegg cart went away to out of stock. No one has a X99 Taichi mobo to sell. My ram choice as well..................
I'm gonna get the 1 that Chalenge gave a link to in his post as I do trust Asus to make quality stuff and they'll hold to the latest NVMe ver 1.2 std, as a true mobo manuf that builds their mobos M.2 slots to be compatible w\ this popular Sammy NVMe PCI-E SSD I'll be very confident that their PCI-E-to-M.2 NVMe adapter card will work just fine and allow this Sammy to shine.....................
:salute
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I'm gonna get the 1 that Chalenge gave a link to in his post as I do trust Asus to make quality stuff and they'll hold to the latest NVMe ver 1.2 std, as a true mobo manuf that builds their mobos M.2 slots to be compatible w\ this popular Sammy NVMe PCI-E SSD I'll be very confident that their PCI-E-to-M.2 NVMe adapter card will work just fine and allow this Sammy to shine.....................
:salute
your board does not have a x4 pcie expansion slot?????
Unless you can drop that into a x16 slot........can you use a male x4 key config in a female x16 slot? no puns intended.
if you a returning and reaquiring, you should get the SATAe version. Your board has it, give you full bandwidth........
I saw a test result of another working NMVe drive, crystal mark. 600+/- writes, 2200 +/- reads. It appears you are getting the proper write speeds for the drive. Your losing out on the potential read speed. Makes me wonder if lanes are dedicated in/out.....
oops
http://www.thessdreview.com/daily-news/latest-buzz/understanding-m2-3xraid0-nvme-boot-performance/2/
good read
http://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1236&title=how-to-install-windows-on-a-pcie-ssd
skylake users read this.
On Intel chipset mother boards other than the new 100 series for Skylake processors, the Ultra M.2/PCIe 3.0 x4 M.2 ports share the PCIe 3.0 lanes with the PCIe slots used by video cards.
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That's not exactly a red flag.
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It would be if you bought hardware with an expectation, then you are denied.
With the right info, you make better choices.
ie: pudgie's mistake
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i have a PM951 that got but was gonna setup IRST with it but then realized my P67A doesn't support IRST :(
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http://esupport.gigabyte.com/#id:275638
Got reply from Gigabyte Support basically confirming what I thought I would have to do..............
FYI....................
The dedicated PCI-E lanes that route direct to the CPU are your best friend on Intel mobos w\ IvyBridge and forward CPU's to get PCI-E 3.0 specs..................
I suspect that Intel Z170 chipset is PCI-E 3.0 spec'd but have to check up to confirm.
All Intel chipsets older than Z170 are PCI-E 2.0 spec'd or older.
:salute
PS--Have to keep my Gigabyte account open for the link to work for y'all to see the reply......................
Read the attachment instead....made a snippet of the web page.......................
:salute
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Here is a copy of the Gigabyte M.2 compatibllity list for my mobo.......................
Look in the NVMe M.2 section & tell me what you see there...................
Yes, Gigabyte needs to get their act together..................... ......
:salute
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ja that seems sketchy. whats strange is that every X99 board they have displayed at website is crippled with 10Gb/s m.2, except the ultra gaming model, which is there latest offering. They do have z170 boards how ever......
the comment I still need to explore is the skylake cpu being the only cpu that does not ask video and m.2 drive to share pcie lanes. that would seem pointless with a 40 lane cpu and only 1 vid card. I need to understand this 1 last thing before purchase.
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It will not slow your video card down at all. Everyone thinks they have to have "x16" on that one PCIe slot, but it simply isn't true. So, even if the M.2 slot causes the card to drop to x8 your video performance will be the same (or even slightly better).
EDIT: Not a perfect explanation on this site, but it does offer a break down of one particular MB (read your manual carefully before buying is always good advice).
http://superuser.com/questions/1020268/does-m-2-ssd-card-mess-with-pci-express
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hijack
so what causes lane choice then, hardware, hardware driver, cpu, OS, or say AH? I have seen the word dedicated being used.......
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I think what you are referring to is the "dedicated" lanes for the M.2 slot? What that really means is those lanes will be used by the M.2 card if the M.2 card is present. The same goes for every "dedicated" slot on your motherboard. The "x##" refers to how many lanes that slot is capable of using. Some motherboards will have an x16 slot even though that spot is only ever capable of x8 by the design limitations of the board and the resident CPU (it has to be an x16 to hold the device). Therefore, the lanes are assigned by the design of your motherboard primarily, and your BIOS and CPU secondarily. The CPU may have more or less than a CPU compatible with the same socket, so you have to watch that also. The OS and drivers only control the device once the lanes are operational. So, even if you wanted an OS to do so, if the controlling CPU does not offer additional lanes then you are in the hands of the chipset. The one option beyond the CPU is the chipset. Yes, the chipset can offer additional lanes, but this control is limited in throughput to the CPU. So, generally if you use something like an x4, x8, or especially x16 slot through a chipset then you are going to lose something like SSD ports, which is why reading the manual is so important.
Hopefully there are not too many mistakes in there.
You need to be especially careful about Z170 boards which purposely limit chipset lanes (SLI being impossible). So read the manual.
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TY
My X58 mobo has 40 PCIe lanes??? Had no clue before this, anyways, whats the difference then, with the 40 lanes associated with my current board and the new Broadwells that use 40 lanes as a selling point?
I want the Taichi mobo. Newegg has it back in stock. If I use both of its M.2 slots and 1 vid card, will I be going at cross purposes for overall performance because of lane sharing.
If I read right, you can SLI a 170 mobo but then you will not be using the M.2 port, use of M.2 is what denies SLI.
Yes all the different express forms will step on SATA ports, somehow.
Your right that knowledge of product is even more important these days. Otherwise u one of the pitiful crying no POST. he he
Can you use a x4 PCIe expansion form key in a x16 slot?
theres a link on my Broadwell thread.
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Well, the more expensive boards usually offer greater capabilities (not always, as price isn't the only measure). Can you post a link to the board you want?
There is probably a Skylake board that can do SLI while also supporting other slots, but it will be one of the top end boards. That's how they make money with less expensive boards offering just a single graphics slot, and gaming boards costing more for more capabilities. Gamers really do fund the initiative behind the industry.
Yes, in most cases you can use x1, x2, x4, x8, or x16 in an x16 slot, but like I said you have to be aware of how the board is designed because that is not always true if you want other motherboard functions to remain active. A properly designed board could offer more lanes than the CPU supports, by allowing the CPU to control some and the chipset even more.
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so if that's the way, I could bypass the m.2 slots entirely. Use 1 x16 video card, 2 x4 SSD AIC's. The taichi has 3 x16 expansion slots. <More reading................
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This is what your manual says about the expansion slots for the Taichi:
3 x PCI Express 3.0 x16 Slots (PCIE2 @ x16 mode; PCIE4 @ x16 mode; PCIE5 @ x0 mode) (PCIE2 @ x16 mode; PCIE4 @x8 mode; PCIE5 @ x8 mode)
* If you install CPU with 28 lanes, PCIE2/PCIE4/PCIE5 will run at x16/x0/x8 or x8/x8/x8.
* Supports NVMe SSD as boot disks
• 2 x PCI Express 2.0 x1 Slots English
• Supports AMD Quad CrossFireXTM, 3-Way CrossFireXTM and CrossFireXTM
• Supports NVIDIA® Quad SLITM, 3-Way SLITM and SLITM
• 1 x Vertical M.2 Socket (Key E), supports type 2230 WiFi/BT module
* The M.2 socket does not support SATA M.2 SSDs.
• 15μ Gold Contact in VGA PCIe Slot (PCIE2 and PCIE4)
(the presence of TM indicates that the Trademark symbol will not display in plain text)
and for storage:
• 1 x Ultra M.2 Socket (M2_2), support type 2230/2242/2260/2280/22110 M.2 SATA3 6.0 Gb/s module and M.2 PCI Express module up to Gen3 x4 (32 Gb/s)**
• 1 x Ultra M.2 Socket (M2_1), support type 2230/2242/2260/2280 M.2 SATA3 6.0 Gb/s module and M.2 PCI Express module up to Gen3 x4 (32 Gb/s)**
* If you install CPU with 28 lanes, the M2_1 only supports SATA type M.2 module.
Concerning the M.2 support:
The M.2, also known as the Next Generation Form Factor (NGFF), is a small size and versatile card edge connector that aims to replace mPCIe and mSATA. The Ultra M.2
Socket (M2) can accommodate either a M.2 SATA3 6.0 Gb/s module or a M.2 PCI Express module up to Gen3 x4 (32 Gb/s).
* The M2_1 connector is shared with the SSATA3_3; the M2_2 connector is shared with the SSATA3_2.
* If you install CPU with 28 lanes, the M2_1 only supports SATA type M.2 module.
And there is a module support list, which changes over time so you will need to check your M.2 purchase against the current posting.
Otherwise, I don't see an issue with using the M.2 with the graphics card of your choice, except that you will want a 40 lane CPU. The manual says the M.2 will share with the SATA port, but it does not say how it will impact the port. If it is a problem then you can always add a SATA controller card and go through one of the PCIe slots, but only if it isn't already being used, obviously.
It's a nice board and even has a TPM header, which is something I look for.
(edited for Trademarks)
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ty
I did read the board specs but was still unclear how much lane share happens with taichi M.2 and the video card slot.
I like the board myself. Its simple in layout. dual bios. less pcie expansion slots. zero LED's. dual nic's. cost positive!. Thunderbolt 3.0. OC'ing ability.
Really its a nice mobo overall. Now I want to know about ASROCK hardware longevity, does it hold up when you push it?
Did I say Newegg has it back in stock........................ ..$219.
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Yeah, unfortunately you may have to buy it there. Personally, I'm done with Newegg and other overstock sites, because of dead and defective products. The turn around on RMAs is two weeks, and it can go on-and-on forever with each new shipment failing like the previous product. You just cannot depend on them for the critical stuff.
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wow I never had a problem from newegg parts. All still in service.
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Well, motherboards are on the risk list as far as I am concerned. They are items that can have large batches that are bad specific to one model, and then entire generations are fine. If I buy from a retailer I can call the manufacturer direct and get assistance. ASUS, for instance, does not offer that for Newegg customers, or many other online resellers. ASRock lists Newegg as a reseller, so that got my attention. You will probably be fine.
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Sounds like I should be even happier with the EU directives: There's a law that any item bought by a private person is covered by primarily the manufacturer and if that's not applicable, the vendor for at least two years. Note that this law supersedes any warranty terms unless the warranty is longer than the said two years. The coverage is based on an estimated expectation of the life cycle of the product in question.
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Update:
After looking around, finally went on Amazon and found the Asus Hyper Mini M.2 to PCI-E 32Gbps adapter card that Chalenge linked but I also found this work of art as well:
http://www.angelbird.com/en/prod/wings-px1-1117/
This thing is on the pricey side but the 15 reviews that I read on Amazon were all 5 star reviews, all 15 reviews were users installing the same Samsung 950 Pro 512Gb NVMe PCI-E SSD on it (on Angelbird's M.2 NVMe compatibility list) and 1 of the users installed this on a Gigabyte X99 Gaming 5 mobo for the very same reason as I'm about to do (that mobo's M.2 slot layout is identical to mine).
The included heatsink and thermal pads are the star of the show....CNC milled matte black aluminum to some pretty high tolerances to get the heat transfer performance desired to go w\ the black PCB that it mounts onto w\ full EMI, HF, Ground shielding and has a 10 yr limited warranty to go w\ it so this adapter is a highly engineered piece of kit that is built to do the job to get the most out of a M.2 PCI-E NVMe or AHCI SSD......and do it for a long time.
I got this on Amazon for $65.95 & free Prime 2-day shipping as I just could NOT resist the looks, build quality and compatibility record.
Heck I've already gone this far, might as well finish her off in style................
:D
The only other PCI-E M.2 adapter card that I could find that would support a Sammy PCI-E SSD and came w\ a heatsink was a lot cheaper but it wasn't EVEN in this Wings PX1 class level and had a few negative reviews for cheap build quality of the heatsink (doesn't make contact w\ the SSD) but no negatives on the performance of it but no mention of NVMe compatibility:
https://www.amazon.com/NGFF-PCIe-Adapter-Samsung-XP941/dp/B00RTSFLBY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1469930820&sr=8-3&keywords=asus+hyper+m.2+x4+pci-e+mini+adapter+card
All others do not come w\ an included heatsink for the SSD.
I'll post on how all goes once it gets here.
:salute
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oooo,
nice find, let me know how the worky.
-
oooo,
nice find, let me know how the worky.
Will do.
The only things that I had "issue" w\ the Angelbird Wings PX1 M.2 to PCI-E adapter is that for the price of this thing IMHO they could've 1.) included a set of black mounting brackets as well for folks who are anal enough (like me........ :D) to want all parts to match the computer box's designed\desired color scheme and layout and 2.) maybe give users a color choice of the backlight lighting bling to choose from......my vote would be crimson red.........
:D :aok
Again 1 of the main selling points of the Gigabyte X99M Gaming 5 micro-ATX mobo outside of the mobo features was its color scheme as well as its layout, which matches well w\ my Sapphire R9 Fury X vid card and cooler which matches well w\ my Corsair H80i V2 AIO (have programmed the LED to light up in crimson red) which matches well w\ my CM Storm Scout 1st gen gaming case (red and black color scheme) so I would've liked to have black mounting brackets to go w\ it.
But I DO have a can of Krylon matte black spray paint on hand so all is not lost......................... ............
:D
I'm gonna try to plug my CH HOTAS back into 1 of the mobo USB slots since I've flashed my mobo UEFI to see if the issue that I had earlier w\ the Gigabyte F3\F20 UEFI (confused on ID of device and locking up during POST) has been resolved w\ the new F22 UEFI I have in there now and if so then this will open up some future possibilities by freeing up my 3rd PCI-E x16 slot..........but in the end I'll most likely stay w\ the Gigabyte PCI-E to USB 3.1 adapter card that I'm using for my CH HOTAS as w\ this card you don't need any external powered USB hub to adequately power your USB gear as the PCI-E 5v power lane has more than enough power to adequately power a USB HOTAS alone as well as the card, but especially if you use 1 w\ the option to hook up a 5v\12v power rail (either Molex or SATA) to it from your PSU (which the 1 I'm currently using doesn't have) then you can certainly rest assured that your USB gear won't be starved for power......ever......
This got me to thinking and I have set this aside in my Newegg wishlist for future purchase:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/NewProduct.aspx?Item=9SIA2NA1E81954&RandomID=1201616810310514420160731142923
Orico is the manufacturer but on this particular USB 3.0\PCI-E add in card they used a Fresno USB 3.0 controller chip (instead of the troubled Via VL800\VL805 USB 3.0 controller chips that are being used on their other offerings which are getting very poor ratings) which is a much better controller chip AND they're providing a SATA to Molex power cable along w\ it to provide the extra power to it from your PSU......notice the color scheme as well...........
:D
Should be perfect if\when I do choose to get rid of the ole trusty Belkin ExpressBus 4-port USB 1.1 bus-powered hub I've been using for the last 15+ years w\ my CH USB HOTAS (have broke 1 of the ports due to accidentally kicking the USB cables when jamming--have the USB hub velcroed just above where my Rt foot rests beside my pedals....got to time tapping & accidentally hit the closest cable & broke the retainer clip in the socket--only have 3 usable ports left) by getting 3 3' USB extension cables to allow me to plug my HOTAS directly into the USB card itself.
Can't wait to get my hands on the Angelbird Wings PX1...............
:salute
PS--Now you got me hooked on ATTO Benchmark.......last runs show the Sammy's NVMe controller is getting better w\ the 10Gbps M.2 slot....SSD performance came up some from the 1st run.....................
FYI.
:salute
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do not over do the benchmarks. They will cause undo wear and tear on your ssd's.
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do not over do the benchmarks. They will cause undo wear and tear on your ssd's.
No problem as I know not to repeatedly run these SSD benchmark softwares.....just posting that the NVMe controller is learning the M.2 pathway and optimizing itself across it within the limitations.............
:salute
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Update:
It's gonna be a happy day in Pudgieland...................
:x :D
Got home today after work and the wife informed me that I had a package come in..........guess what it was?
The Angelbird Wings PX1 PCI-E to M.2 adapter w\ heat sink!!!!!
Came in a day early than expected....................
So I pulled my box, opened her up, pulled the Fury X and pulled the Sammy 950 Pro out the onboard M.2 slot and installed it on the Wings PX1 card. This adapter is a well built piece of kit and wasn't as thick as I was expecting (only about 7.5mm, was expecting to be around 9.5mm to 10mm). I put both thermal pads on the Sammy then put the heatsink back on the riser card.
The heat sink has air intake slots along the top edge and exhausts out the rear of the case....just right in line w\ my side mounted 120mm case fan blowing air on it so my Sammy should stay cool.
Put her in the 2nd PCI-E x16 slot beside my Fury X and buttoned all up and fired the box up and went in the UEFI to see how the Samsung SSD would be recognized....nothing changed (as it shouldn't have due to this card being a full pass-thru design). Exited out UEFI to start up into Windows and that's where the happy times started.....
Windows booted up in a HURRY. Checked the Sammy thru Samsung Magician software and she's at full speed now (link speed @ 8 Gbps, link @ x4 & Bandwidth @ 32 Gbps). 1st pass thru Magician came in at 2231 MB\s reads, 1453 MB\s writes!
Yeah I'm gonna be in love for a while.....................
Checked her out thru the side case window.....looks like the mountain scene in "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" in my Storm Scout case's black background...........would look even better if the LED's were red.......................... .
I feel good now!
:D
Gonna let her burn in for a while and enjoy the performance!
Yep ole Pudgie has finally arrived..................
:cheers: :rock :aok :D
:salute
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congrats
when ur ready I'd luv to see an ATTO
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1st ATTO run...................
:salute
The very noticeable improvements in latency speed is worth the effort as everything is much snappier in performance.
I think I'm set for a while now.
:salute
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now ur cooking
:salute
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I think we are still about two years out from these being mainstream and hitting their stride on consumer PCs (motherboards), but at least we have some nice toys to play with.
I bet Pudgie feels a little like the only kid in the neighborhood with a pool. hehe
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I think we are still about two years out from these being mainstream and hitting their stride on consumer PCs (motherboards), but at least we have some nice toys to play with.
I bet Pudgie feels a little like the only kid in the neighborhood with a pool. hehe
Chalenge, if you knew the full back drop of the part of the country where I live you would know just how close you were to the truth of your post......................... ..
:D
And right now I'm loving every minute of it.................!
:x :D
:salute
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Update:
All is looking good.
The more time on the smoother the SSD's performance gets so I'm a happy camper....................... .
Until I got another idea going in my head............
I do have an empty M.2 slot on my mobo that is 2x faster than the SATA ports......sooooo...........
I'm thinking bout getting me 1 of these to run it in the M.2 slot:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA12K3G96790
This is the AHCI version which it's onboard controller should better align itself in this AHCI mode M.2 slot on my mobo.
Now I know the M.2 slot will gimp this SSD some as well as this SSD's controller is PCI-E 3.0 compatible and since it's using a M key layout I'm thinking it's x4 lanes as well but I don't think this SSD is gonna get clipped as much in the M.2 slot as did my Sammy 950 Pro NVMe SSD as my mobo M.2 slot will be running AHCI mode @ PCI-E 2.0 x2 @ 10Gbps so the cut IMHO should be about 1\2 the rated speeds (from 2150MB\s reads to 1000MB\s reads, 1500MB\s writes to 700MB\s writes).
Then once I get it all set up I'm gonna move my page file to this SSD to speed up the OS page out performance even more over the Sammy 850 Pro SATAIII SSD that I'm currently using for this then let TRIM have the rest of it for overprovisioning purposes.
Then I'll run a secure erase on the Sammy 850 Pro SATAIII SSD that I was using for paging duty to refresh it then use it for increased storage.....between the 4 of them I will have around 1.2T of available storage space if deemed needed.
Once this is done then I will have Frankenstein'd this box to my full satisfaction w\ only 1 item left to "upgrade"......................
:D :rock
Intel I7 6850K Broadwell-E CPU (mainly for core clock speeds, power efficiency due to the node change, Turbo Cache 3.0, improved onboard subsystem mem\DMA controller performance........hopefully at a lower price as well)..................
I'm gonna wait on finishing this part for a while though to see what the future will bring before I move on it.
:cheers:
:salute
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If your intended purpose is for page file usage, you might be burning bucks for nada.
I own like 8 Vertex SSD's, there all old. Anyways I use 1 of them for the pagefile. SATA 2 port and drive. You cannot tell a diff perf wise.. I do it for OS's SSD longevity, stops some of the constant read/writes. I would not burn a NMVe drive or its AHCI cousin for that because of shorter life span of SSD's. But I would use an older SSD in a SATA port for same....
Just my opinion.
I'd look into what superfetch, prefetch do to your new toy. These items are superfluous now. he he.
I quit worrying about storage when I got the MyBooklive. Less parts better performance, less juice, less heat. My beasty is for driving, lean and mean.
:salute
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Hi MADe,
I do this for much of the very same reasoning that you've laid out in your post.........and have been doing this for quite some time (even back in my HDD usage days).
But the other reasoning for getting an AHCI PCI-E SSD to use on the M.2 slot is for performance reasons as well.
Since paging is still being used w\ games today (AH is 1 of them) all I'm doing is using my SSD's in a method to mitigate the performance issues that paging can create while running games (freezing while page outs occur) by taking full advantage of their latency & transfer speeds while at the same time setting up 1 SSD to be used as a sacrificial lamb to absorb the brunt of the abuse from Prefetch, SuperFetch and paging (all to speed up HDD usage due to the liabilities of a disk platter and floating reader head in a HDD....Prefetch and SuperFetch will cause a lot more preemptive READS to occur from my boot NVMe SSD to system mem but ALL page out WRITES to disk...which do by FAR the most damage to a SSD...from system mem will go to the SSD that I have placed the PAGING FILE on....not to my boot NVMe SSD. The NVMe SSD will only be written to most is when you shut the computer down as all resident data in system mem is written back to the boot drive before power down to preserve the data. Then use a large enough SSD w\ the paging file on it to allow TRIM plenty sector acreage to easily do the garbage collection and provisioning duties on it) to reduce the cost of replacement. Games do put a pretty good load on a computer's components and IMHO a lot of untapped gaming performance is found in optimizing a computer's subsystem performance capabilities......not just the components themselves. Now if the adage of price\performance ratio is applied then this stuff doesn't look as appealing........not because it is WRONG, it is simply due that for the cost incurred to achieve it is it worth the investment vs what you can have now w\o the extra cost to get the extra performance...no matter how large OR small the improvement?
I wager that this question can only be truthfully answered by the INDIVIDUAL users themselves, NOT the tech sites or reviews alone as from their testing they can give really good objective info OR they can also give influenced and sometimes biased opinions based on the individual's POV concerning the subject\component at hand. So in the end it is up to the individual to decide and then accept the consequences of the decision made whether good or bad, right or wrong, perceived or real.
So since I AM a pronounced computer geek and have been blessed to be able to enjoy this hobby of mine I do tend to seek out all possibilities of computer performance capability and am willing to put some funds on the line to find out what I want to know for myself.
So since I now have an unused M.2 slot using 2 PCI-E 2.0 lanes thru the X99 chipset that are KNOWN to be faster that the SATA lanes (10Gbps vs 600Mbps) thru it so I should be able to insert an AHCI PCI-E SSD in this slot & use it to do the dirty work of taking the paging writes which should improve the speed of this process mainly by lowering the LATENCY speed of initiating the process even more vs using a SATAIII SSD while improving the actual DATA TRANSFER RATES from system mem to the AHCI PCI-E SSD vs a SATAIII SSD to effectively REDUCE the OVERALL impact of paging on the performance of Aces High (or any other game\software that will use a paging file) even more on my box while at the same time PROTECTING the NVMe PCI-E SSD from all this to prolong its useful service life (what I am currently doing w\ 1 of the SATAIII SSD's in my box and have validated this usage of SSD's for myself over the last 4 yrs). 1 thing that you have done w\ SSD's that I haven't done is to use them in a RAID array. But this is just 1 aspect of real world optimization of my computer's subsystem along w\ it's components to deliver more overall system performance from it utilizing the existing technology at hand today so this isn't pie-in-the-sky thinking or usage. It's real and is available to be had. The performance gains may end up either 1.) being so small that I can't detect it by the means that I may be using to measure this OR 2.) undetectable by the means that I may be using to measure this.....BUT that doesn't PROVE this process to be WRONG. All known DATA says that the results should be tangible (real). I'm gonna attempt to find that out for myself. The process I KNOW is real and does work but I also know that there is a point in all this where the results will become ILLOGICAL from a technical standpoint as well as at that point it won't really matter.
Heck I may already BE at that point AFAIK................
:D
What I didn't say or have contended is that this is PRACTICAL from a price\performance ratio standpoint.....in reality using current performance metrics along w\ the costs to achieve what I'm doing, this would be considered a POOR, UNNECESSARY CHOICE from a TYPICAL CONSUMER's usage standpoint to run games\software on a computer....and I myself would wholeheartedly AGREE w\ that and also would not attempt to PERSUADE anyone to DO what I do. I just post to provide the info of what I do and the results of what I have done so all can then read and DECIDE on their OWN what THEY want to do w\ it as we're all GEEKS who regularly visit and especially post in here so the info is IMHO relative to the discussion in general.............
I'm not the typical computer consumer................... :D
But to demonstrate that I DO look at the cost side as well while I'm in my "creative element" I've NOT cancelled doing this but I HAVE changed from using the 256Gb model of the Samsung SM951 to the 128Gb model for costs consideration.............sav ed myself $75.00 in the process.....also real money......
:D
The SSD should be here sometime this week................ I'll post back to let ya know how it goes..............
:D
:salute
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moar power to m8.
playing is half the fun. the other half is when the playing pays off and it works?
walking the path is good, getting candy at the end is sweet...........
:salute
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moar power to m8.
playing is half the fun. the other half is when the playing pays off and it works?
walking the path is good, getting candy at the end is sweet...........
:salute
That's what it's ALL ABOUT!!!
Right On brother!
:salute
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I think the only thing I did was disable the hibernate function, but it's your money.
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I think the only thing I did was disable the hibernate function, but it's your money.
Yeah, I've never used this function on any computer that I've ever built or bought as I've always believed that it was better off in the long run to just shut down my boxes when not being used or not gonna be sitting at them rather than allowing them to go into a low power state, even though to use this is 1 way to alleviate a few writes to a boot SSD drive by holding data in system mem when not in use..........
:salute
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Update:
The Samsung SM951 128Gb AHCI PCI-E SSD came in today & I've installed it got all prepped out as I want it.
All looking good at this time.
Transition speeds (primarily latency related) between apps, screen changes, etc have noticeably improved and is very snappy in feel.
Gonna run some tests to find out just what is what but it looks good at the moment.
:salute
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Update:
By accident I've stumbled upon a real world event of 2 apps actually using my page file to page out streaming data to disk while in operation and 1 app affecting the performance of the other due to page file access issues.....
I was making an ATTO run on my Sammy SM951 AHCI 128Gb PCI-E SSD (SSD which has the page file located on it) while playing music using Spotify (a client based music processing software used to process streaming sound packets from the Internet to my SB X7 DAC-AMP outputting thru my Logitech Z623 THX 2.1 speaker\subwoofer setup) and noticed that once I commenced on my ATTO benchmark run all went w\ no issue on every ATTO read test but on EVERY ATTO write test, the sound output went into a sound loop (exactly like a platter w\ a scratch across the grooves) until the particular ATTO write test concluded at which time the sound looping stopped and all synched back up and moved on. This occurred on EVERY ATTO write test...not the read test...until the benchmark was completed.
Discovering this I then ran ATTO on my Sammy 850 Pro SATA SSD (which doesn't have a page file assigned to it) for verification and sure enough, when ATTO ran a write test on this SSD the sound wasn't affected at all.....all was in perfect synch.
This little discovery has now helped to confirm my thoughts concerning Windows OS and apps usage of paging to operate well as the OS had addressed a certain amount of system mem according to the app's interrupt request which had filled so it them started using the page file to page out data to disc that wasn't needed anymore that was taking up addressed mem space....even though I have 16Gb of system mem onboard and Prefetch and SuperFetch (which could account for the paging out due to the nature of how SuperFetch works) enabled along w\ an OS managed page file size.
Also confirms, to me at least, the benefit to software performance that an OS\app and the page file can provide when the page file is set up on separate disk(s) from the disk that the OS\app is on, along w\ the latency speeds\data transfer rates of the disks being used, along w\ the speed\bandwidth of the data path(s) between the 2 disks that the data travels across and system mem latency\data transfer rates.............along w\ the importance of keeping to a minimum the number of software apps being used on a computer at the same time, especially softwares that are KNOWN to use a page file to operate........
IOW's the computer subsystem performance as well as the components themselves............
Something to consider in the future when you're playing AH (which does page out to disk) w\ other software running in the background regardless of computer set up and component capability and you're seeing AH not perform as well as you think it should..............
Just by chance it may not be a vid card\CPU\Internet issue alone........................ ........
:salute
PS--Here is the ATTO run on the Sammy SM951...............
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Update:
I was going thru my Services today using Black Viper's list to "fine tune" Windows and found that SuperFetch had already been disabled (musta been from running Samsung Magician's OS Optimization routine when I was using my Sammy 850 Pro SATA SSD as the boot drive earlier) so what I posted in the last post was w\o SuperFetch in operation..........which further cements my reasoning concerning all this.
FYI.......................... ...............
:salute
PS--SuperFetch is now enabled......................
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I think when Windows is installed to an SSD that it will automatically optimize for that environment. I would have to go back and read up on that, but that is how I remember it.
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I think when Windows is installed to an SSD that it will automatically optimize for that environment. I would have to go back and read up on that, but that is how I remember it.
Yeah I've read this as well, but I've also noted w\ my copy of Win HP x64 SP1 that this is hit and miss....especially when moving from a SATA based SSD (SATAe and PCI-E SSD's came later on) but even w\ a SATA based SSD it seems to be connected to how well Win 7 can ID the particular SSD to then auto set the coded optimizations for a SSD at the time of this OS's development and the development cycle of SATA SSD's (shut down defragmenter, SuperFetch, Prefetch, etc).
I'll assume that starting w\ Win 8 forward this would be more streamlined and efficient.
I do know that Samsung Magician software will perform SSD Optimizations on any Samsung SSD that the software can fully ID (so far it can't fully ID my Sammy SM951 AHCI PCI-E SSD.....I think due to this SSD being an OEM product....ID's the drive model name, serial #, capacity, firmware but can't ID the AHCI mode, SATA Interface and OS Optimization. Fully ID's the other 2 Sammy SSD's but states for the 950 Pro NVMe SSD that this SSD doesn't support Samsung's OS Optimizations but the 850 Pro SATAIII SSD does).
I had run Samsung's Magician OS Optimizations on the Sammy 850 Pro SATA SSD when I had the OS cloned onto it from the Plextor M6e BK AHCI PCI-E SSD just to see how it would handle the SSD so this is when I believe SuperFetch got disabled....but I also can't be sure of this as I didn't go and check all this before-hand and afterwards.
I have checked in Services several times since I set SuperFetch to automatic to see if Win 7 would auto disable this service....so far it has not done so......service is still set to automatic. I also have had to physically set the Defragmenter schedule to not perform a defrag on my SSD's......Win 7 never did this automatically for my SSD's that I know of. I did find this set to disabled in Services but can't verify if the OS did this on its own.
This may be due to the Sammy 950 Pro NVMe controller being too new for the coding that is residing in Win 7.
I'll wager that w\ Win 10 this will be very different...................
:salute
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After what I ran into today I wouldn't bet on Windows 10 getting anything right. SSDs are one of the remaining glitches under W10A.
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the controling features that ms is employing is really gonna turn me off.
W10, packaged updates where you can not remove problem patches.
Inability to disable windows updates and other resource hogs.
Read where they intend same approach to future w7 sec updares.....
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They have been feeding updates to Windows 7 with features from Windows 10. It is tricky to keep track of as they do not explain what they are doing. Just a generic, "This update resolves issues...".
On my home system I have pretty much stopped updating Windows 7. If I have a problem, then I will look for the specific solution to that problem, but I have not had any issues in a long time.
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I have set up Windows Update on my box to "Check for updates but let me decide whether to download and install them".
Then when I get the notification that new updates are ready I open and read every 1 of them to see what it is about then decide to either install it or hide it.
That's what I do.............can be lengthy but at least I know what's what as best I can deduce from what I've read.
So far no issues to report........all seems to be clean.
All SSD's are working great at this time...................
:salute
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I disabled win ups because I was using it the same way pudge. Lately however something was bogging down my rig, it was win ups! Affected page loads, app loads and was not allowing a shutdown. Had to force shutdown every time, no more with win ups disabled.
Jugged along in background hashing cpu cycles and grabbed and held ram.............
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getting ready to buy the M.2 drive pudge. Any observations in general about your overall hardware discovery here?
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getting ready to buy the M.2 drive pudge. Any observations in general about your overall hardware discovery here?
Outside of what I've already posted, not much more if any to add.
The most noticeable effect that you'll notice is the latency improvements........all stuff happens much quicker.
Boot up into Windows will be marginally faster unless you shut down the graphics (Windows graphics on boot up will run at a certain speed and time duration regardless of how fast the HDD\SSD is). I like the graphics so this doesn't bother me none.
YMMV
If you're looking to go w\ a NVMe SSD be sure to have all the necessary drivers\UEFI and such at hand before install but you already know this................
All I can say is all is working great for me!
You'll love the latency improvements in software usage or anytime data needs to move.
You gonna go w\ Win 10?
If you do then post on how it goes w\ you as I might make another attempt to install it sometime in the near future (had a lot of driver issues trying to load them the last time I tried it).
:salute
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You gonna go w\ Win 10?
I was kind of leaning that way since w7 support is effectively nil. I want w7 but...............do I want to buy a reg key for something thats effectively dead?
Yet what I keep reading about w10 and MS's ham handed direction.........AH doesn't support LINUX..........
tbh I would be surprised if I noticed a big diff from what I got now. but point of a new machine was to do better than I got, so......
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Hi MADe,
Here are a couple of ATTO runs on this here Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 512Gb PCI-E SSD for comparison:
1st 1 is dated 8-4-16 after I got the Angelbird Wings1 PCI-E adapter to move this SSD off the ACHI M.2 slot to the #2 PCI-E x16 slot that goes thru the I7 5820K CPU to get the rated read-write speeds of the Sammy NVMe SSD.............
2nd 1 is dated today 1-7-17 after this SSD has been in action since then.............
Looks like she's settled in quite well now!
:salute