Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: DmonSlyr on July 24, 2016, 11:02:27 AM
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I've been thinking about a way to get more people back in the skies, fighting and having fun in AH again. This idea would be implemented in Beta, since that is what we are focusing on now. Please consider this idea as a way to generate a lot of new players and put them into a quick fighting scenario. Hear me out.
1. Get the death bowl map. The custom arena map. Put this on the same page as the main arenas. Name it Death Bowl!
2. Make a 50 player limit cap or make the bowl bigger or something.
3. Make the free to play for 2 months. The first month allows you to fly in both the Death Bowl and the MA.
The second month only allows you to play in the Death Bowl. I bet you some people would subscribe early just to get back into the MA.
4. Giving the people who potentially want to pay for this game 2 Months to learn, have fun, get right into the action, and meet people in a small battlefield, will encourage them to actually sign up. If the people don't want to sign up, that's fine! What it creates though is people to fight with who are in the arena. This creates action and excitement, I bet you would see an increase in subscriptions because of it.
5. This creates quick action without having to create match making arenas, ruin the integrity of the game, allow people with a short time to play have fun, allow new players to understand the mechanics of the game. Give them enough time to understand it. Brings more people into the game, and creates action for everyone at a default.
When I played Chivalry for the first time in FFA. I was put into this little arena (like gladiator) and people would be running around all over the place chopping arms and heads off. Dying was part of it. It was SOOO MUCH FUN! Sure, staying alive is freaking impossible, but running around in that small arena created so much action, fun, and excitement in a short amount of time, there is no wonder why so many people were signing up to play.
I think AH needs an arena like this. It needs a quick play arena were people get shoved into the action immediately. It needs an arena for people who don't have longer than 30 minutes to play. It needs an arena that can build up new players and get them excited in the game quickly and sporadically. Sure the trial time is a little longer, but I don't think you would regret it in the long run.
We were fighting in the Death Bowl the other night and I had this idea because we were having so much fun in a short amount of time. I feel like it will bring hundreds or thousands of new players who want to jump into the action and have instant excitement.
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That has potential!!!
+1
HiTech states in their mission statement. Their business. Will run as they see fit. But this is truly worthy of a read IMHO.
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Instead of two months of free play, how about 100 sortie hours?
If they use up the 100 hours, chances are they're hooked. Sometimes life can keep you from playing and having a time limit (even though two months is far better than two weeks) could be a deterrent for some.
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Instead of two months of free play, how about 100 sortie hours?
If they use up the 100 hours, chances are they're hooked. Sometimes life can keep you from playing and having a time limit (even though two months is far better than two weeks) could be a deterrent for some.
Heck - I was hooked after the first 4 hours, but the learning curve is high for new players. Frankly, I think they are stuck until AH3 goes live - a lot of people are waiting for it.
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I do feel new players need more time to figure out the game....2 weeks isn't much time to learn the game which helps with retaining players...most people aren't going to keep doing something if they are just going to keep dieing.... 100 hours would be enough time for them to get passed that initial portion of the learning curve.
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As I stated in a previous post AW had a new player arena for new players only. It was a great idea. Getting experience before entering the big boy arena was fun and useful.
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Free hours in the MA instead of a day cap should definitely stir interest.
Maybe make the training arena free for a longer period than the MA ?
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I like this idea...
And agree the 100 hours is perfect...
Don't allow anyone with a MA k/d over 2.0 into the New Players Death Bowl...
Don't allow shades into New Players Death Bowl...
Give them 50 Hours of MA and 50 Hours of NPDB = 100 Hours
Give them the TA for 100 Hours...but don't tell the customer until after the initial 100 Hours has expired...
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I like this idea...
And agree the 100 hours is perfect...
Hmmm I could imagine it could have a very undesireable effect from a business standpoint... :headscratch:
Does anyone of you know the average customer retention of games in general or AH in specific? I don't. But I would not be surprised if it's only something like 6 months (AH BBS population ain't the average customer ;))
In that case, 100 hours could possibly eat up 4 of those 6 months...
That's possible one example of those things you could easily label "perfect" as long as you don't know about the business internals :old:
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Hmmm I could imagine it could have a very undesireable effect from a business standpoint... :headscratch:
Does anyone of you know the average customer retention of games in general or AH in specific? I don't. But I would not be surprised if it's only something like 6 months (AH BBS population ain't the average customer ;))
In that case, 100 hours could possibly eat up 4 of those 6 months...
That's possible one example of those things you could easily label "perfect" as long as you don't know about the business internals :old:
100 hours or 1-3 month??? How often do most people get to play in 2 weeks time??? I never thought 2 weeks was enough time for anyone to get the hang of the fighter portion of this game (GVs and buffs not as much)
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I never thought 2 weeks was enough time for anyone to get the hang of the fighter portion of this game (GVs and buffs not as much)
Most people never get the hang of the fighter game at all ;)
No, I'm actually half serious. Getting 'the hang of it' is a somewhat ambiguous term: I for one have no idea where to put that point. I know that most players struggle a lot to get their kill even after many months or even years. I think the point is getting them hooked, which is probably much earlier than 'getting the hang of'.
Now that I think of it, it's possibly much better to hurry and get them a better overall gaming experience instead of giving them more hours in the games current state?
But of course it's pretty much obvious that I don't have any 'golden' ideas myself.
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Most people never get the hang of the fighter game at all ;)
No, I'm actually half serious. Getting 'the hang of it' is a somewhat ambiguous term: I for one have no idea where to put that point. I know that most players struggle a lot to get their kill even after many months or even years. I think the point is getting them hooked, which is probably much earlier than 'getting the hang of'.
Now that I think of it, it's possibly much better to hurry and get them a better overall gaming experience instead of giving them more hours in the games current state?
But of course it's pretty much obvious that I don't have any 'golden' ideas myself.
I first jumped into the main arena with a P38 trying to drop bomBS on stuff like I seen on the discovery wings channel....I kept lawndarting because of compression. Getting "used to" would be just BFM...the ability to fly around with augering, land without crashing, turn without ripping wings off, turn without immediately flat spinning a spitfire ect ect ect....not expectin them to be able to go into rolling scissors or something :aok
I do agree though that a better experience over a short time is better then a mediocre experience over a longer time.
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Getting "used to" would be just BFM...the ability to fly around with augering, land without crashing, turn without ripping wings off, turn without immediately flat spinning a spitfire ect ect ect....
In my opinion that could easily be done in two weeks, if your are at least moderately interested. If you had somebody showing you those basics, I would say (opinion!) less than 2 hours even. BFMs like that don't take long to learn. Catching up with the vets in battle does :joystick:
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Some of the guys from beta still haven't "got the hang of the fighter portion"...
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A 30 day free trial is sufficient enough for a new player to get over the learning curve and to decide whether or not they wish to remain as a paid subscriber.
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TBH, I don't think this particular arena should be for noobs only. I'd like an arena where I can hop in and get a quick warm up, or find super quick fights, with a 15-30 minute time span of play.
It would help noobs because they would be able to communicate with vets, and learn how challenging the game really is, while having quick action and a lot of fun... It would also be a great arena to show your friends to get them interested.
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TBH, I don't think this particular arena should be for noobs only. I'd like an arena where I can hop in and get a quick warm up, or find super quick fights, with a 15-30 minute time span of play.
It would help noobs because they would be able to communicate with vets, and learn how challenging the game really is, while having quick action and a lot of fun... It would also be a great arena to show your friends to get them interested.
The only problem with that is newbs are going to enjoy getting spanked by a bunch of vets.
You very definition of the quick type of fights you want is the DA lake. Ask HTC to set some rules like they do when the AvA guys run the Monday Night Madness. Set a message of the day pointing out the rules, run film and have those that don't follow them get bumped/banned from it using the film as evidence. If it is set up with clear rules the "crap" that killed DA lake in the first place could be avoided.
After that, promote the fights and have at it. Those that want that type of furball fights only will come as long as the rules are covered.
As for a Newb arena, I love to see that. AW had it and I would spend time in there as a target. My time was up so I couldn't fire a gun, but it helped me learn plane control, gave the new guys a tougher target that they could be aggressive on with out getting hammered at the first mistake. Made many friends and new squad mates that way.
Getting more people in, well thats the real issue. I can understand HTC not wanting to spend money on advertising with AH3 not yet completed. But word MUST get out there about this game. Social media may help, but it will take almost "spam like" posting to push it out front and get it noticed.
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The only problem with that is newbs are going to enjoy getting spanked by a bunch of vets.
You very definition of the quick type of fights you want is the DA lake. Ask HTC to set some rules like they do when the AvA guys run the Monday Night Madness. Set a message of the day pointing out the rules, run film and have those that don't follow them get bumped/banned from it using the film as evidence. If it is set up with clear rules the "crap" that killed DA lake in the first place could be avoided.
After that, promote the fights and have at it. Those that want that type of furball fights only will come as long as the rules are covered.
As for a Newb arena, I love to see that. AW had it and I would spend time in there as a target. My time was up so I couldn't fire a gun, but it helped me learn plane control, gave the new guys a tougher target that they could be aggressive on with out getting hammered at the first mistake. Made many friends and new squad mates that way.
Getting more people in, well thats the real issue. I can understand HTC not wanting to spend money on advertising with AH3 not yet completed. But word MUST get out there about this game. Social media may help, but it will take almost "spam like" posting to push it out front and get it noticed.
Noobs won't know who vets are. Noobs are noobs, even noobs beat new noobs. I don't jump into a room in BF4 and think I'm going to play better just because it's a noob arena. I still get my arse beat. I enjoy playing because it's cool, I realize that dying is pretty much apart of the process to getting better. Yaws did that to me during H2H years, but it helped me want to get better because I could see that there was a much better way of flying than what I learned from other games. I think a room for everyone would be good for everyone because it would allow them to play a more fast pace type of game play. Score doesn't matter, so clubbing seals doesn't have a major effect. You could easily create an arena for both anyway if what you say turns out to be true.
I disagree that what I am thinking about is the DA lake. The DA lake is not designed for quick action. There is no reason to implement rules when no one is in there. You to take off with your 5K advantage, spend 10 minutes still getting to the fight, get ganged, or constantly fight against higher players. There's a reason why it died. It just wasn't as fun as the old DA, and it's not as quick into action like the old DA. I'm not saying to bring back the old DA. Just that it created faster fights. The DA lake isn't working because it defeats the purpose of itself.
There needs to be an airspawn map like deathbowl with a 3-4K limit, spread out, all green map. This will let people jump right into the action. It's what a lot of players have been wishing for. We need a fast pace arena that invites players to get right into the action. I think it would have a huge effect on the future amount of subscribers for so many reasons.
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Instead of two months of free play, how about 100 sortie hours?
If they use up the 100 hours, chances are they're hooked. Sometimes life can keep you from playing and having a time limit (even though two months is far better than two weeks) could be a deterrent for some.
True, I was hooked after the first 10hrs playing....14yrs ago
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Even if a death bowl setup is designed I see very little attendance there. The game is set up now so that can be done on the players volition. Everything that has been requested or commented on can be done now. What needs to change for fights to occur and good fights is community attitude. Everything is here to do that. As time goes by everything changes.
Turnover in the community, game play etc. Most of the newer players have their own style of gameplay whether we like it or not. We don't force style of gameplay, but we can influence it by exhibiting the sting of battle. Wish there were no scores involved. But hey! That's just me.
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Even if a death bowl setup is designed I see very little attendance there. The game is set up now so that can be done on the players volition. Everything that has been requested or commented on can be done now. What needs to change for fights to occur and good fights is community attitude. Everything is here to do that. As time goes by everything changes.
Turnover in the community, game play etc. Most of the newer players have their own style of gameplay whether we like it or not. We don't force style of gameplay, but we can influence it by exhibiting the sting of battle. Wish there were no scores involved. But hey! That's just me.
How does score only affect the players who play in this game compared to every other competitive game with scoring? There are a lot of anti score arguments, but that doesn't really correlate when the majority of people who play the game don't worry about score, or don't know how to really get a good score. I feel like the whole score debate is a cop out to say they are only running away because of their score. In some cases that is true, but the real reason is because they don't know how to perform defensive manauevers. When you have planes like 190Ds and P51s that are not perked, and can easily escape most trouble, that's what most new players are going to choose. A Death Bowl would defeat the reason to run. I could see this as a better way for players to learn the game, show it to friends, and have a more fun time when you don't have a long time to play.
The problem with the whole community argument, is that it will never be fixed. You cannot change a community that you cannot control. The community is what it is. The people will act how they act.
The issue is a few simple structural issues with the maps that can completely change the dynamics of the fight.
Most of the complaints I hear about is how people are aimlessly flying around wasting time looking for ghost. The custom arenas tab is in a place where most people aren't going to look. It's not gonna have the same effect as a arena on the front page. Plus, the majority of players do not know how to open a custom arena. It's just too much of a hassle in most cases. If you play Chivalry, FFA, on the arena map, it's nothing but chaos and slaughter, but it's so fun, I learned a lot about the game. AH needs an arena like that. There has got to be a way to suck new players in. Right now, with low arena #s and no where to find quick action, you see players log off and quit because they are bored. You see no new subscribers because they cannot find any action at 2:30pm and so they simply don't subscribe. There has got to be a better solution and imo that's opening up the opportunity for quick fights in a closed small arena.
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So... "counterstrike in aircraft" is basically what you're after. It'd be popular. I'd hate it and it would likely kill the MA, but it would be popular.
Wiley.
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I would like to see something to bring in new players. I had some free time from work this morning at 10am so I drove home to play. 32 players and all were more than likely in Gv. Waste of my gas and time.
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I think the game was never an easy place to be a new player and yet was still successful. I'm going to flat out guess that the difference today is that the pipeline of people giving the game a try just isn't working very well. It might be worse to be a new player now because numbers are lower and the game lacks the energy it had when hundreds were on in 2 main arenas but it was always a challenge and I would guess that a lot of people who tried it out got bored real quick with dying after long, (more than a minute,) flights to their death so the retention of a player who made contact through a free 2 weeks was maybe low compared to other games even back then.
I think there are several things the game could have that would help with retention, I think of lot of potentially good ideas have been suggested, (I've long thought that an easy way to practice shooting at maneuvering drones would help get people up to speed,) but I am not sure that if the conversion rate went up it would make as much of a difference as an increase in simple raw numbers of two week trials would.
I'm not a video game player so its only intuition and youtube videos that inform my thinking. From what I have read War Thunder's FRB is a ghost town most of the time, and you need track IR unless you are unusually skilled, The ATAG server, (IL2,) boasts of 100 player capacity. I don't know ROF's numbers but the couple times I tried they were low, DCS I don't know anything about because it tried to break my computer, (if you have the hardware it is supposed to be hip.) If AH is going to remain AH I would say that those are the competitors and the active player base across those games seems like it is really small, they are all niche games. I am not considering War Thunder aside from FRB to be a competitor to AH in the same sense that I don't consider shooter games or Arma or any of the other titles I don't really know much about to be competitors.
Except for players with, by my standards, freakish skill, I consider AH to be a joystick game that is more about simulating the physical, (manipulation of stick and rudder plus throttle,) than it is about controlling a game airplane with a computer. Does that make sense? I think that this is rare. Even within AH the way tanks and level bombing is controlled strays from this, I would argue in part because there are not any generally available physical controls that model the real life controls for those aspects of the game. The reason why I like the absence of carb heat and radiator flaps and other IL2/DCS (from what I hear) "realism" is that those button pushing features have no tactile reality and in fact interfere with my suspension of disbelief. In my view this introduces a real quandary, the best thing about the game is also the greatest barrier to experiencing it well and subscribing after a 2 week trial.
I'm just going to go out on a limb and assume that joystick sales are on par with VHS recorders meaning that the background hardware environment that supported a higher number of try outs and conversions for AH has gotten really bad. I seem to remember that AH had some kind of deal with a joystick manufacturer to give free joysticks with a subscription but since its long gone I'm assuming it didn't work. The problem as I see it is that at the moment AH can compete against the other combat flight sims that aren't arcade but the whole genre has trouble generating leads when competing against games that don't require any special hardware.
What I don't really understand is that, even given this hardware obstacle, why the raw growth of the number of people with computers and internet access hasn't expanded the number of potential players enough to soak up the change in tastes. When I look at Civil War Reenactors I feel like there must be at least that many people World Wide who would play AH. To me this suggests that there are still plenty of potential new customers but they are clearly harder to reach.
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Noobs won't know who vets are. Noobs are noobs, even noobs beat new noobs. I don't jump into a room in BF4 and think I'm going to play better just because it's a noob arena. I still get my arse beat. I enjoy playing because it's cool, I realize that dying is pretty much apart of the process to getting better. Yaws did that to me during H2H years, but it helped me want to get better because I could see that there was a much better way of flying than what I learned from other games. I think a room for everyone would be good for everyone because it would allow them to play a more fast pace type of game play. Score doesn't matter, so clubbing seals doesn't have a major effect. You could easily create an arena for both anyway if what you say turns out to be true.
I disagree that what I am thinking about is the DA lake. The DA lake is not designed for quick action. There is no reason to implement rules when no one is in there. You to take off with your 5K advantage, spend 10 minutes still getting to the fight, get ganged, or constantly fight against higher players. There's a reason why it died. It just wasn't as fun as the old DA, and it's not as quick into action like the old DA. I'm not saying to bring back the old DA. Just that it created faster fights. The DA lake isn't working because it defeats the purpose of itself.
There needs to be an airspawn map like deathbowl with a 3-4K limit, spread out, all green map. This will let people jump right into the action. It's what a lot of players have been wishing for. We need a fast pace arena that invites players to get right into the action. I think it would have a huge effect on the future amount of subscribers for so many reasons.
Newbs will not populate a "death match" arena. Look at what the newbs are doing now, running to ack, or manning a gun. Why? Because they don't enjoy getting hammered by the sharks.
Second as to the bolded section, The reason the DA lake went south is because there were no rules so a bunch of players did what ever they wanted and chased away those that were just looking for some action. If the DA lake was revamped with an alt cap (heavy down draft at 5K), rules clearly listed in the MOD, and HTC willing to hammer those caught on film for trying to work outside of those rules, you would have the death match arena you want. Once it is known what the rules are and how things work in there like minded players will repopulate the DA.
But a death match arena to save the game? Nawwww ain't going to happen. While there are a lot of folk, myself included that like to fight, what we see in the main arena now proves that we are NOT the majority. Also, players like me like to fight for everything, not just head to head in a fighter. I like running GVs, bombing crap, taking base and so on. A death match arena won't provide that type of play.
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Newbs will not populate a "death match" arena. Look at what the newbs are doing now, running to ack, or manning a gun. Why? Because they don't enjoy getting hammered by the sharks.
Second as to the bolded section, The reason the DA lake went south is because there were no rules so a bunch of players did what ever they wanted and chased away those that were just looking for some action. If the DA lake was revamped with an alt cap (heavy down draft at 5K), rules clearly listed in the MOD, and HTC willing to hammer those caught on film for trying to work outside of those rules, you would have the death match arena you want. Once it is known what the rules are and how things work in there like minded players will repopulate the DA.
But a death match arena to save the game? Nawwww ain't going to happen. While there are a lot of folk, myself included that like to fight, what we see in the main arena now proves that we are NOT the majority. Also, players like me like to fight for everything, not just head to head in a fighter. I like running GVs, bombing crap, taking base and so on. A death match arena won't provide that type of play.
I think the biggest reason the DA died is because the furball lake crowd found out they can fly in external view mode on Warthunder for free.
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I think the biggest reason the DA died is because the furball lake crowd found out they can fly in external view mode on Warthunder for free.
This guy thinks the same. :old:
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Newbs will not populate a "death match" arena. Look at what the newbs are doing now, running to ack, or manning a gun. Why? Because they don't enjoy getting hammered by the sharks.
Second as to the bolded section, The reason the DA lake went south is because there were no rules so a bunch of players did what ever they wanted and chased away those that were just looking for some action. If the DA lake was revamped with an alt cap (heavy down draft at 5K), rules clearly listed in the MOD, and HTC willing to hammer those caught on film for trying to work outside of those rules, you would have the death match arena you want. Once it is known what the rules are and how things work in there like minded players will repopulate the DA.
But a death match arena to save the game? Nawwww ain't going to happen. While there are a lot of folk, myself included that like to fight, what we see in the main arena now proves that we are NOT the majority. Also, players like me like to fight for everything, not just head to head in a fighter. I like running GVs, bombing crap, taking base and so on. A death match arena won't provide that type of play.
It's not a "save the game" type of request. It's simply a way to get people in the air fast and have people to shoot at instantly. Something like this would be perfect to sucker in new players. New players and even veteran players have trouble finding fights sometimes, or they just want to mix it up in a quick combat scenario. Sometimes people don't have the time to fly 15_20 min to a base looking for 1 or 2 people in a sector. It's extremely difficult to gauge what the situation is like, and then decide if you have the time to go find it. Then it's a 25K 190D and you are like, shoot. So you go grab a 190D and fly the same way. It's part of why people fly those types of planes the way they do. Small #s in the off hours create this. So do I want to chase down 1 high alt monkey who will run from me because he's a "noob," or do I want to join an arena where I can find people to shoot and fly with in a small zone of fighting while the #s are low in the MA?
The MA will have its MA players who like strategy and that type of thing. This would actually bring tons of new players into the MA to check it out, which will increase the fights. It will also increase the competition in the MA.
When there are a lot of #s in the MA, the game is a blast. The point is to bring #s to the entire game. Having an arena where people can get in the action more quickly, and understand it, will bring vast #s to the MA. The MA will be seen as much more of a competive place to be. You really have to understand the way people fly in this game to understand why this would work. I've been doing it for 10 years now at a very high level. I know the way lot of players fly. Believe me.
Fugi, I think you have the wrong perspective about what players today want. The whole running/hiding/ack hugging type of play is a very natural phenomenon. It's never going to stop. The community will always do it. The "community" or who ever they are, will always act the same in abundance. The late war planes in ww2 were literally designed for the purpose of escaping the enemy and running to safety as quickly as possible . The only way to get more people rolling from bases is to get more people playing the game.
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I don't mind coming back, but I don't really care for being a chew toy for some of you elitist sticks.
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It's not a "save the game" type of request. It's simply a way to get people in the air fast and have people to shoot at instantly. Something like this would be perfect to sucker in new players. New players and even veteran players have trouble finding fights sometimes, or they just want to mix it up in a quick combat scenario. Sometimes people don't have the time to fly 15_20 min to a base looking for 1 or 2 people in a sector. It's extremely difficult to gauge what the situation is like, and then decide if you have the time to go find it. Then it's a 25K 190D and you are like, shoot. So you go grab a 190D and fly the same way. It's part of why people fly those types of planes the way they do. Small #s in the off hours create this. So do I want to chase down 1 high alt monkey who will run from me because he's a "noob," or do I want to join an arena where I can find people to shoot and fly with in a small zone of fighting while the #s are low in the MA?
The MA will have its MA players who like strategy and that type of thing. This would actually bring tons of new players into the MA to check it out, which will increase the fights. It will also increase the competition in the MA.
When there are a lot of #s in the MA, the game is a blast. The point is to bring #s to the entire game. Having an arena where people can get in the action more quickly, and understand it, will bring vast #s to the MA. The MA will be seen as much more of a competive place to be. You really have to understand the way people fly in this game to understand why this would work. I've been doing it for 10 years now at a very high level. I know the way lot of players fly. Believe me.
Fugi, I think you have the wrong perspective about what players today want. The whole running/hiding/ack hugging type of play is a very natural phenomenon. It's never going to stop. The community will always do it. The "community" or who ever they are, will always act the same in abundance. The late war planes in ww2 were literally designed for the purpose of escaping the enemy and running to safety as quickly as possible . The only way to get more people rolling from bases is to get more people playing the game.
I have been here for 15 years. I have see it start, blossom into its heyday, and now dwindle down to what we have now. I have see the continuous furballs we use to have, the beginning of the base takes, the zone strats/bases the capture lines, the country wide squad ops, the squad head to heads, the birth of the hordes, and the dropping of country dar just to tweak off players.
I know how to play this game as well as every facet of this game. I know very well how the players use to play and how it has changed over the years to what we have now, and I can tell you splitting off on another arena is not how you grow the population.
How is adding 50 players to a death bowl arena going to add any players to the main arena? At best your going to pull some of the players out of the mains to join in the death bowl if it becomes that popular.
You need to increase the game play in the main arenas to increase the population and to maintain that increase. Players are not going to come into this game and get vulched or waste time chasing players who run or hide in ack and say "Hell ya!!! I want to spend money on this!" If game play isn't tweaked to make it more fun and challenging with out the "short cuts" everyone uses now players are going to come in, play a bit, and leave.
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Hey, you guys are right.. Lets vote to do nothing.. thats simple..
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I don't mind coming back, but I don't really care for being a chew toy for some of you elitist sticks.
we are the 99%
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I have been in the game 10 years. I have seen the titanic Tuesdays the days where you seen 400 people on and I am here now. I will admit I will run to ack when I am out numbered or know the guy is waiting for me to clear the ack to kill me. What I see is that the small maps bring the fights faster. I would not mind to see the big maps fall from the rotation right now until the player base comes back. I also think that the beta when it goes live will bring new players. We r playing an outdated game right now, and the long time players think it is because of the tactics. When I started there was vulchers, alt monkeys and ack huggers. I think maybe the old guys should be more helpful to the new guys instead of thinking easy kill. I am guilty of this as much as the next guy. The game will make a comeback we just have to be patient.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
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I think that is a pretty good idea. The length of the trial period is debatable, but longer could possibly yield better results. I was also hooked quickly,after just trying the offline arena. I know, I am easy lol
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I have been here for 15 years. I have see it start, blossom into its heyday, and now dwindle down to what we have now. I have see the continuous furballs we use to have, the beginning of the base takes, the zone strats/bases the capture lines, the country wide squad ops, the squad head to heads, the birth of the hordes, and the dropping of country dar just to tweak off players.
I know how to play this game as well as every facet of this game. I know very well how the players use to play and how it has changed over the years to what we have now, and I can tell you splitting off on another arena is not how you grow the population.
How is adding 50 players to a death bowl arena going to add any players to the main arena? At best your going to pull some of the players out of the mains to join in the death bowl if it becomes that popular.
You need to increase the game play in the main arenas to increase the population and to maintain that increase. Players are not going to come into this game and get vulched or waste time chasing players who run or hide in ack and say "Hell ya!!! I want to spend money on this!" If game play isn't tweaked to make it more fun and challenging with out the "short cuts" everyone uses now players are going to come in, play a bit, and leave.
You are assuming that there is a limited # of people who can play AH. The theory that more people flying in a death bowl would limit activity in the MA is false. Here is why, assume there is an infinite amount of players on the market. The goal is to attract as many of those players as seemingly possible, in order to keep the game rolling. If you could bring just 100 new players and sucker them in with a death bowl, they would naturally try the MA, just to see how it is. This would actually increase the MA #s. Not every one wants quick intense fighting. This basically is the exact opposite of the MA. This would make the MA seems more strategical. People would join a super quick fight like the death bowl, and then switch to a more structural game play like the MA. It's basically saying, here is an intense fighter arena, and here is a organised war arena. It would provide a balance to the same ole MA style of play. It would give players an option, which would increase subscribers and game play for both arenas.
Your last paragraph proves my point. The only way to increase the game play #1 is to increase the player base. How do you increase the player base? Providing an arena where players can find super quick fights, and learn the game better, then they would enter the MA and try that out. The amount of new people checking out the MA would increase the fights in the MA, thus creating more fun. "Players aren't going to come into the game and get vulched or waste time chasing players running to ack." That's exactly why creating this arena is a good idea. It limits all of that boring type of game play and encourages people to learn how to fight. It gives players a second option instead of logging off in Boredom. The opposite of boredom is intensity. The opposite of a strategic long term MA is chaos, and people love that crap, that's why a death bowl will be extremely helpful in helping players enjoy intense fighting with quick action. Why not give players another option instead of watching them log off because they get vulched and players run from them all the time? Why not have an option so players don't spend 30 minutes getting to a fight, only to die in the first 10 seconds they engage. There has to be a quick fight solution or these types of players will not subscribe.
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If the Death Bowl would be that much more exciting than the "boredom" of the MA, I'm guessing more MA players would migrate to the DB, than noobs who were attracted by the DB style of play would migrate to the MA.
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If the Death Bowl would be that much more exciting than the "boredom" of the MA, I'm guessing more MA players would migrate to the DB, than noobs who were attracted by the DB style of play would migrate to the MA.
Would you rather have people migrate into another arena to continue playing the game if the MA is slow and does not benefit their style of play, or would you rather them log and not play the game at all? The people who log and don't play at all decrease the overall #s playing the game, thus slowing down the fun. If they go to an arena with quicker action than those people are still playing the game, thus increases the chances of more people finding fights and having fun, thus increases the amount of players in total, because more people are playing.
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Most people don't want to furballing these days, it is a dieing breed. Saying a death bowl will bring in more people is like a dealership putting cars on sale hoping to sell trucks. It just won't work.
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I would rather concentrate on modifying the gameplay in the MA to make it more attractive to new (and veteran) players, rather than bleed off MA players to a new DB, thus ensuring the death of the MA. It seems that the OP is suggesting that the MA experience is beyond hope and it's time to just give up on it and switch to a more one-dimensional arcade style experience to keep and attract players. Maybe it is....
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Most people don't want to furballing these days, it is a dieing breed. Saying a death bowl will bring in more people is like a dealership putting cars on sale hoping to sell trucks. It just won't work.
I completely disagree. All the furballers have left because there are no other furballers to fight. Now they are stuck aimlessly floating around chasing tiny red dars during the off hours, players log off because it's not exciting. All of the furballers will go play a different game now. You are left with strat nuts who don't want to find enemies to fight against. Most people do want furballs, but the dying #s have decreased the furballers, therefore there are no furballers. How do you create furballers? You create a room for them to furball. Those people will test their skills in the MA. This will cause more furballs in the MA. This will keep more people playing the game. This will get more people interested in flying fighters and furballing again.
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Who are you trying to convince and why? :headscratch:
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Who are you trying to convince and why? :headscratch:
Hi-tech mostly, and for all of my friends and the players who have left because of the excitement level during the off hours. I've listened and studied the reasons why people aren't utilizing the DA lake. I've studied why people aren't having the great fights they had before. I've studied why people are having such a hard time finding fights, which is why they are logging and/or canceling or not starting a subscription. It's because of 1, map layouts, and 2 there is no place to have quick spontaneous fights. The layout of the DA lake does not support this type of game play. Many new players do not understand the MA. Many new players just want to grab a plane to fly and shoot people down as soon as possible. They don't want to spend 20 minutes flying to a base only to not find a fight. They don't want to constantly get ganged and vulched, this won't happen in a all green death bowl FFA with air spawns. This is not even close to a match making type of play. This is an arena for people to enter who just want quick fights. If I log on, and there are no dars and little fights, but I really want to play AH, I am stuck because there are no fights and I can't join an arena that provides that. Instead of flying in a DB arena, I log off and do something else. This is what SOOO many players do. If it happens a lot, they un-subscribe. Wouldn't it be better if players joined a DB type of arena, rather than log off or quit all together? At least after 30_40 minutes in the DB, I can look back in the MA and see if the fights have picked up.
But all you guys seem to think it would be pulling players out of the MA. They are already being pulled out of the MA when they log off. There is an infinite amount of players who can play this game. If you increase the #s overall, it will increase the amount of people in the MA, and increase the amount of new subscribers who want quick action. These new subscribers would wonder into the MA and create fights.
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I hear ya and I'm not disputing your idea. I can't be sure whether it would be good or bad. But the only person you would need to convince would be Hitech but based on past (and very recent) history why bother going to such great lengths trying? Post it in the wishlist forum and just let it ride. It's not necessarily a bad idea and what comes of it is up to no one that has posted here. :salute
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I agree with The bug..
And in the mean time...start a fight..make the darbar
Others will see it and come.
Go in attack mode and pester a.base...or take it if they won't defend.
If you log off.for not.seeing a darbar..others won't see your darbar..
Believe me I understand low numbers..I am on at the worst times possible..
I can still have fun..in reality you don't need 20 people to.fight..although that is fun..
Just one or two is still a good fight..even better sometimes.
If you decide to log..make a map..a small map ..you seem very persistent that small maps are important..make the best small map we have seen.I don't think the small maps are that great that we have..lots of flight time between bases..good when we had numbers..but.low numbers a bit bothersome...my opinion..make a cracker of a map.
You seem to have thought long and hard about all the stuff in the game...utilise this knowledge.
We all love this game and want to see it keep going..you have put your point across very eloquently..maybe the next step is to help change it from within..make a map..with a deathbowl area.
Fighter town.
It's a bit of a challenge I know.but it's an option.
Let's not keep bashing the game..let's work with what we have.
Respectfully
Jimmy :salute
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violator would you care to share the data you studied? i would love to validate your ideas.
semp
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I completely disagree. All the furballers have left because there are no other furballers to fight. Now they are stuck aimlessly floating around chasing tiny red dars during the off hours, players log off because it's not exciting. All of the furballers will go play a different game now. You are left with strat nuts who don't want to find enemies to fight against. Most people do want furballs, but the dying #s have decreased the furballers, therefore there are no furballers. How do you create furballers? You create a room for them to furball. Those people will test their skills in the MA. This will cause more furballs in the MA. This will keep more people playing the game. This will get more people interested in flying fighters and furballing again.
(http://blog.paper4pc.com/images/logical-fallacy-1.jpg)
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(snicker)
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(http://blog.paper4pc.com/images/logical-fallacy-1.jpg)
You've obviously never read a philosophy book.
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You've obviously never read a philosophy book.
by your reasoning you have never been a knight. all the furballers are there. but since we don't furball alone, then by default the other countries must have furballers.
so no all the furballerd haven't left.
semp
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Most people don't want to furballing these days, it is a dieing breed. Saying a death bowl will bring in more people is like a dealership putting cars on sale hoping to sell trucks. It just won't work.
Thats silly and a false claim.. any sale that attracts a potential customer would up the chances of a dealership selling a truck.. happens ALL the time in ALL forms of retail.. but nice try..
The game is a dying breed.. Not just furballers.. So like I said.. Lets not try anything.. Keep advocating for nothing.. I mean why would you want to add anything to the game that some others might find fun or that might attract people back..
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(http://blog.paper4pc.com/images/logical-fallacy-1.jpg)
Invictus.. are you that guy that got angry when someone posted a picture of a candy van? I can't recall the guy's name.. but this resembles some tard comment he would make..
I see no fallacy in his argument other than he could have used 'most' instead of 'all'.. help me out?
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by your reasoning you have never been a knight. all the furballers are there. but since we don't furball alone, then by default the other countries must have furballers.
so no all the furballerd haven't left.
semp
Change the word all or most to 65% and you'll have your answer.
I had to switch to bish just to give the knights a fight. Hoarding bases isn't fun either. They have the best fighter squads by far. The realization is that the opposition simply needs more fighters in the sky in order to keep the knights satisfied.
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Change the word all or most to 65% and you'll have your answer.
I had to switch to bish just to give the knights a fight. Hoarding bases isn't fun either. They have the best fighter squads by far. The realization is that the opposition simply needs more fighters in the sky in order to keep the knights satisfied.
perhaps you may want to change your statement that all furballers are gone.
semp
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perhaps you may want to change your statement that all furballers are gone.
semp
Semp, I thought Violator did in the quote, you quoted of his last post.... < shakes head >
TC
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Furball Lake worked for a long time along side the rest of the DA where the duelers left the neophyte Lake energizer bunnies alone for the most part. Something worked with the lake setup that kept none duelers coming back and even creating squads. I doubt they would have kept at it as long as they did if a bunch of MA vets or duelers decided to flood their tiny world day in and out slaughtering them for trying to get in the air. Many I talked to said that was why they were happy staying at the lake all those years they did.
That is the heart of the problem. If vets want at the new blood asap, new players most likely won't stay with the game. It took some of the Lake crowd years to migrate to the MA. You could always tell a Lake player when he was moving into the MA. Constant HOing then running as their goto ACM. Eventually they joined squads and learned better fighting skills over time.
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Invictus.. are you that guy that got angry when someone posted a picture of a candy van? I can't recall the guy's name.. but this resembles some tard comment he would make..
I see no fallacy in his argument other than he could have used 'most' instead of 'all'.. help me out?
Changing 'all' to 'most' to helps, but his argument appears to be filled with fallacies.
This appears to be a sensitive subject. I apologize if my attempt at humor offended you or him.
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Thats silly and a false claim.. any sale that attracts a potential customer would up the chances of a dealership selling a truck.. happens ALL the time in ALL forms of retail.. but nice try..
The game is a dying breed.. Not just furballers.. So like I said.. Lets not try anything.. Keep advocating for nothing.. I mean why would you want to add anything to the game that some others might find fun or that might attract people back..
No, logic would say if I want to sell more trucks that I should put the TRUCKS on sale.
If I want to see more people in the MA, I would FIX the MA.
The DA worked well until the dweebs went in with vulching, picking, only running temps or 262s, or C hogs. As I said, put some rules into the DA, ENFORCE the rules, and the "furballer" types will hang out there like they use to in the old days. But again, I see no way that would increase the population in the MAs.
Furballers and the Strat type players have ALWAYS been the two sides in this game. When there was a furball lake map the strat players complained about "wasted resources" namely the players furballing. When ever the strat type players grab all the bases at a tank town area like NDilse map the furballer complain..... think you posted something like that recently Violator. Catering to one type isn't going to grow the other.
There needs to be a balance. Take away the resupply of the towns, making the strat guys fight for them instead of resupplying them. No that the TT base CAN be capture, and the furballer should help cap/fight to keep them. Instead of having the game set up to "take away" something as most griefer type (both furballer and strat type griefers) players do, make it so they are rewarded better for NOT griefing.
Police the arenas more so there is less bullying and so not chasing away new players who may not have developed that tough skin yet. Players should help by reporting poor behavior more no matter WHO the offending player is. Picture more and bigger bouncers to ensure EVERYONE has fun and NOBODY is in there spoiling it.
THings like these will make the MAs more popular, and so more populated. As that populations grows more options appear in game play. More options means more fun. Time to clean up the cesspool!
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good news though... more manned guns coming in AH3!
just another reason for a player to defend their base like a real internet warrior.
I hear they are in the towns now too! Gotta protect those m3's suppin!
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I would love for the DA to go back to being a killshooter off arena as this would allow for a deathbowl section of the map where you could have your free-for-all and would also allow for a group of friends to square off for 1v1's using check 6's like we used to do years and years ago. It is very much preferable to trying to keep sides balanced and only having access to 1/2 of the group to fight at a time with the current system of killshooter on.
I've been asking for this for over a decade now. I guess it's just never going to happen. It does have problems. It makes it easier for griefers to interrupt duels because they get to grief two people at once and not just one. This could be mitigated by giving regular duelers CM powers in there, but many of the regular duelers are on HiTech's ****list by now, so that'll never happen either :rofl
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I would love for the DA to go back to being a killshooter off arena as this would allow for a deathbowl section of the map where you could have your free-for-all and would also allow for a group of friends to square off for 1v1's using check 6's like we used to do years and years ago. It is very much preferable to trying to keep sides balanced and only having access to 1/2 of the group to fight at a time with the current system of killshooter on.
I've been asking for this for over a decade now. I guess it's just never going to happen. It does have problems. It makes it easier for griefers to interrupt duels because they get to grief two people at once and not just one. This could be mitigated by giving regular duelers CM powers in there, but many of the regular duelers are on HiTech's ****list by now, so that'll never happen either :rofl
A good idea, but then I have never understood why kill shooter exists in the first place. It doesn't in similar games, and it's inclusion detracts from the simulation of real-world risks of friendly fire.
Does kill shooter keep friendly units from intentionally shooting and killing one another? Yes and no. Yes it keeps people from shooting each other directly, but it also allows people to game the game. I've lost count the number of times I softened up an opponent only to have someone fly into my gun stream. I go boom, they clean up and get credit for the kill. Yes, some were accidental, but others I'm fairly certain were not.
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A good idea, but then I have never understood why kill shooter exists in the first place. It doesn't in similar games, and it's inclusion detracts from the simulation of real-world risks of friendly fire.
Trust me, it's the way it needs to be in the MA. The whines would be astronomical (and justified) if it didn't exist and every griefer and/or idiot could shoot down friendlies at will.
In short we have killshooter because there would be nothing realistic, whatsoever, about the way your own teammates flew and shot if it was on. We all have a responsibility to watch where we aim and killshooter punishes the person who breaches that duty.
It's very hard to killshoot yourself unless you're ganging up on one con anyway. You can choose not to do that. You can't stop other friendly's from following you around though.
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Furballers and the Strat type players have ALWAYS been the two sides in this game. When there was a furball lake map the strat players complained about "wasted resources" namely the players furballing. When ever the strat type players grab all the bases at a tank town area like NDilse map the furballer complain..... think you posted something like that recently Violator. Catering to one type isn't going to grow the other.
There needs to be a balance. Take away the resupply of the towns, making the strat guys fight for them instead of resupplying them. No that the TT base CAN be capture, and the furballer should help cap/fight to keep them. Instead of having the game set up to "take away" something as most griefer type (both furballer and strat type griefers) players do, make it so they are rewarded better for NOT griefing.
This is a furballer vs base taking approach. I'm not saying you're wrong, in fact you make a good point in framing the entire issue it this way. But pulling the rug out from under the base taking players, and assuming they will simply accommodate the furballers instead, doesn't seem to be a plausible approach to this. All you'll do is trigger the base taking players into complaining the base taking part of the game has been crippled.
You've done a good job of isolating the issue, imho, but I think we need to think a little more about what needs to be done.
Also, keep in mind that a game like War Thunder seems to pay a lot more attention to classic game theory (focusing on that upper left corner of the matrix, which is where you're heading), but sucks because of the lack of freedom (timed and balanced arenas, etc), while AH is not strictly bound by classic game theory, but has a ton of freedom (and that makes it unique).
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A good idea, but then I have never understood why kill shooter exists in the first place. It doesn't in similar games, and it's inclusion detracts from the simulation of real-world risks of friendly fire.
Does kill shooter keep friendly units from intentionally shooting and killing one another? Yes and no. Yes it keeps people from shooting each other directly, but it also allows people to game the game. I've lost count the number of times I softened up an opponent only to have someone fly into my gun stream. I go boom, they clean up and get credit for the kill. Yes, some were accidental, but others I'm fairly certain were not.
It's to prevent players from griefing by team killing their own side.
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This is a furballer vs base taking approach. I'm not saying you're wrong, in fact you make a good point in framing the entire issue it this way. But pulling the rug out from under the base taking players, and assuming they will simply accommodate the furballers instead, doesn't seem to be a plausible approach to this. All you'll do is trigger the base taking players into complaining the base taking part of the game has been crippled.
You've done a good job of isolating the issue, imho, but I think we need to think a little more about what needs to be done.
Also, keep in mind that a game like War Thunder seems to pay a lot more attention to classic game theory (focusing on that upper left corner of the matrix, which is where you're heading), but sucks because of the lack of freedom (timed and balanced arenas, etc), while AH is not strictly bound by classic game theory, but has a ton of freedom (and that makes it unique).
The fighter guys want more fights, set it up so the strat guys cant cut corners and have to fight.
In return give the strat guys something for fighting for the war, perks/points for grabbing a base, more perks/point for getting a large base, even MORE perk/points for taking a base with under 15 people. Make a point system, V bases 1, Small bases 2, med base 5, and large bases 10. first team to 200 wins the war!
How to coad this, beats me, Hitech is the genius coader. At this point "win the war" is the only goal strat guys seem to have. Can they be interested in something else or do they need to be herded into playing the game with out cutting corners?
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The fighter guys want more fights, set it up so the strat guys cant cut corners and have to fight.
Now you're simply saying the game has to be played your way. I'm not really a strat bomber or raider type, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but I get turned off by the "force them all to play the way I want it played because that's the way I like to play" argument. In reality, all you're trying to do is artificially re-create something that existed with a higher player count, by making a not-so-insignificant number of the remaining players abandon the the game play features that they enjoy. Not a great solution imho.
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Yes I want everyone to play my way, I want them to bomb strats, bomb towns, create fighter caps and sweep, spawn camp spawns, have rolling battles in GVs, bomb GVs with fighters and med bombers, capture towns and everything else there is to do in this game.
The fighter option you quoted is only one of several suggestions in that post.
This is a combat game that is losing the combat portion of the game. If it continues why would people continue to PAY to play it? After all, it is much easier to avoid any contact with other players if you play OFFline and don't need to pay to play it that way.
The strat players are going to have to learn to fight and the fighter guys are going to have to learn to "join the team" and help win the war.
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The crux of it as I see it is that we have to force the fight.
wwiionline used to do this reasonably well in that it had lots of town to fight over but not all were able to be captured all the time. You had to open routes to the next town in order to assault it. You could not simply bypass the fight.
I have no idea how hard a supply and command system would be to implement into the current game - especially since it would require effort to be taken away from the current goal of AH3, but I think it would help to some extent to satisfy both camps.
I would love to see it work along the lines of: <please note these are ideas and not hard and fast numbers to get hooked up on>
- Fewer 'front line' bases - these are in contact with the enemy. They can be taken by ground or airborne troops. They can be bombed by all aircraft in the game.
- 'Rear Echelon' bases - these have a direct link to friendly front line bases. They can be taken by airborne troops at a rate of 2 x that required for a front line base take. They can be bombed by all aircraft in the game at a damage rating of .5 of the front line base. There is no enemy GV link to these bases.
- 'Strategic reserve bases' - these do not have a direct link to Front line bases. They can only be damaged by bombers and are toughened with respect to the other types of base. Can be captured by airborne troops at a rate of 5 x a front line base.
The fighting should be mostly at or near the actual front with some effort on the rear. If you want a base you have to set up the attack criteria and then go at it. It may be that the base take conditions for a front line base need to be relaxed considerably to allow for 'easier' takes however maybe also not allow all FH to be destroyed therefore enabling a defence to be mounted.
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It's to prevent players from griefing by team killing their own side.
I get what it's supposed to do and even noted that in my post. As I said, the problem is it detracts from game. It also could be handled in other ways which would not, such as community involvement, temporary bans for repeat offenders, points or kill subtraction, or a combination of these things. This is how it is done in other online air combat communities, so what makes Aces High different?
It's very hard to killshoot yourself unless you're ganging up on one con anyway. You can choose not to do that. You can't stop other friendly's from following you around though.
How do I choose not to gang up on one con when I was the only one engaged with him in the first place when another friendly jumps in? In other games, I might get points subtracted or even a warning which would be waved if I could prove no ill intent, but the rude friendly finds himself taking off in another plane and might eventually be banned if he continued to act that way.
Trust me, it's the way it needs to be in the MA. The whines would be astronomical (and justified) if it didn't exist and every griefer and/or idiot could shoot down friendlies at will.
In short we have killshooter because there would be nothing realistic, whatsoever, about the way your own teammates flew and shot if it was on.
It would be realistic if the other players on your team were teammates. What you describe is not a team or simulated air combat. It's air quake.
(http://www.tinkerteam.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/bowling_bumpers.jpg)
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You guys may be looking at this backwards because your frame of reference is as guys who want to fight. Most players don't want to fight by your definition but, they do want to fight. They want to follow a group and fight from the comfort of being in a group and not being responsible for anything but pulling the trigger now and again. You can see this easily by how many players now seem to balk at really going somewhere and picking a fight like many of you will.
POTW has recently moved over to rooks because of ENY. I see the same thing there and it takes place on the knights side. Both sides if a small group starts going somewhere and breaks things with a purpose, all the green guys follow and fight as long as the initiative is maintained by the small group who picked the fight. This has always been the heart of how action is generated in the MA.
The majority of players in our game are followers not leaders, nor are they lone wolfs who value the contest between fighters more than not loosing. You cannot force them to fight by rigging the game, they will quit. They will follow to a fight that meets their comfort level. This is why missions worked so well and attracted so many followers.
Your solutions cannot be ones of forcing or system pressuring them to fight when they don't want to. They will happily contribute to initiatives as part of a semi organized group. They will not in their minds feed you their scalp when they know they will loose for their trouble.
Off peak time has an obvious numbers problem which is the reason fights are slim. On peak time has a problem with anyone stepping up and initiating. The lone wolves want to follow the green guy herds to get their fix while the green guys mostly want to follow anyone who initiates with name value in their minds. Not a whole lot of that these days so each country is down to a cadre of regulars who either initiate or scatter across the map doing something.
In the MA if you want people to go somewhere and do something to generate action. Lead the action and start it yourself. Not as many do it anymore.
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This is the way i see it. HTC provides us the tools in which to have fun, but it is our perogitive to use them properly. It seems as though there are a certain small group of people, and I am by no means singling anyone out, that want HTC to magicly provide a furball, and then a air spawn 3k above it. Sometimes, when scanning thought a particular map if i see no fights i attempt to create one. Believe it or not de-acking a field is a great way to start a fight. I.E, hey guys field999 is de-acked. 9 times out of 10 multiple freindlies will start heading to that base. In turn, the other "country" will see the opposing dar bar and attempt a defense. Sometimes it turns into a 5 minute vulch fest and a quick bass take, other times it generates a furball that lasts several hours. Either way its entertainment. There are multiple other ways to stir up a fight, thats just an example. Also, when you see a new "handle" doing something stupid like slow crawling up a b17's 6 or trying to ho a Jug with a Zeke, lend some practical advice instead of being a jackhole, it may be the diffence from a 2 weeker to a subscriber.
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I get what it's supposed to do and even noted that in my post. As I said, the problem is it detracts from game.
It really doesn't detract from the game. You just want your irresponsible shooting to affect someone else, whereas now, it affects only you. It's the way it should be.
If you're having problems with killshooting yourself enough to be upset about the feature, then what you're really having problems with are situational awareness and possibly target selection which are both much bigger things to focus your energy on. I really wouldn't worry about killershooter in the MA. Give yourself another 6-8 months of developing your skill set and it likely won't be a problem for you any more.
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Any teamkill solution that involves petitions in any way, reviews, judgements and manual banning place a significant additional workload on a company that's basically just 3 people. I don't think Skuzzy would be pleased much... :devil
Also, the MA environment and its population can't be necessarily compared to other games environments... heck, it's environment is even much different than other places in AH, in particular special events like scenarios and FSO. "Losing kills or points" or "banned after the x offense" would still make you treat every pilot you don't know & trust really well as a potential enemy.
"Hey look, that's this Lusche knowitall from the forums... hes coming back to the field in a 262... now watch this LOL"
Killshooter is an elegant solution to that problem. Of course it sucks at times, but not nearly as often as with no killshooter.
I guess I killshot myself something like a dozen times (at most) in the MA... and I have more than 11K hours of gameplay behind me... :old:
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Guys, respectfully, you don't get it. Not sure why, maybe because you've never really played other flight combat sims. AH is an abberation. Even WAR THUNDER, a game some of you regularly put down, has bloody friendly fire. Are there griefers there? Sure, but its minimal. In all my years playing on all of them I've been shot down by a friendly a handful of times. If the community is filled with people who are that immature, its not a wonder that it is slowly shrinking.
This community never ceases to amaze me with its close-minded, insular mindset.
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Guys, respectfully, you don't get it. Not sure why, maybe because you've never really played other flight combat sims.
Or maybe because we actually did, and have up to several decades of experience in different places? Maybe because we actually know what we are talking about when we speak of the specific MA environment?
If the community is filled with people who are that immature, its not a wonder that it is slowly shrinking.
I think most of us have simply stated reasons. Now look at this own last post of yours and do tell me how it's more mature than what AKAK, Vudak and I wrote.
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Guys, respectfully, you don't get it. Not sure why, maybe because you've never really played other flight combat sims.
Air warrior, BF1942 (ok dubious), wwiionline, Fighter Ace, DCS, IL2, ROF, AH, I am sure there are a few more -like back in the early days there was that great helicopter sim I forget the name of.
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Guys, respectfully, you don't get it. Not sure why, maybe because you've never really played other flight combat sims.
Oh, I think some of us get it. In Air Warrior, the grandfather of these games, fraggers were a constant problem. You could report them, they would be banned sometimes, but there were always more. When challenged, if they said anything, it was typically something like "Hey, there were spies in the real war!" It is impossible to accurately convey the hatred that instantly filled you when someone in an A26 (with a handle like fx5bg) blew you out of the skies as he took off behind you.
Here in AH, the AvA occasionally has tried turning killshooter off, and modern day fraggers have risen to the opportunity. There is virtually nothing - nothing - worthwhile to be gained by turning killshooter off, and much labor and distress is avoided by having it on.
- oldman
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This is the way i see it. HTC provides us the tools in which to have fun, but it is our perogitive to use them properly. It seems as though there are a certain small group of people, and I am by no means singling anyone out, that want HTC to magicly provide a furball, and then a air spawn 3k above it. Sometimes, when scanning thought a particular map if i see no fights i attempt to create one. Believe it or not de-acking a field is a great way to start a fight. I.E, hey guys field999 is de-acked. 9 times out of 10 multiple freindlies will start heading to that base. In turn, the other "country" will see the opposing dar bar and attempt a defense. Sometimes it turns into a 5 minute vulch fest and a quick bass take, other times it generates a furball that lasts several hours. Either way its entertainment. There are multiple other ways to stir up a fight, thats just an example. Also, when you see a new "handle" doing something stupid like slow crawling up a b17's 6 or trying to ho a Jug with a Zeke, lend some practical advice instead of being a jackhole, it may be the diffence from a 2 weeker to a subscriber.
I'd simply just like to see another arena that's designed for players who want quick action with a 15-30min time span, where strategy is not part of the idea. If I have a quick 25 minutes to play, I don't really want to go to a base, play in ack, probably die in the ack, trying to see if I can get a chump to roll on the field. It doesn't work that well in the off hours. I'm simply trying to get more people interested in fighting so that they have a clue as to what to do in the MA. The MA is a very big place for noobs, it's challenging to even take it all in. They don't have the attention to fly to a random base and try to stir up a fight. I'd like a place that is condensed and easy for anyone to find some action.
I also agree with a lot of people taking about making the MA maps. While I wish I had the time to make one, I just don't. All I can do is provide my wisdom and Invision for exciting game play.
All I'm saying is that the strategy MMO type game is great, and I agree with a lot of Map ideas, (besides TT and FTs) but there just needs to be another arena that is designed for quick action, in order to sucker in new players who don't know how to find or create action yet.
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I think most of us have simply stated reasons. Now look at this own last post of yours and do tell me how it's more mature than what AKAK, Vudak and I wrote.
In fairness, when I reread my post, I come across as an *** :)
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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In fairness, when I reread my post, I come across as an *** :)
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
As, to be fair, was mine. My bad, man. :salute
Or maybe because we actually did, and have up to several decades of experience in different places? Maybe because we actually know what we are talking about when we speak of the specific MA environment?
I think most of us have simply stated reasons. Now look at this own last post of yours and do tell me how it's more mature than what AKAK, Vudak and I wrote.
True, and it was wrong for me to do so. Again, my bad and apologies. But don't assume I don't have decades of experience in multiple place as well. My point is the gaming trends are towards immersion, VR being a good example. Anything that detracts from that should be avoided. Does killshooter totally ruin the AH experience? No, but it is annoying. So I get your points, but it doesn't change my opinion. :salute
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In fairness, when I reread my post, I come across as an *** :)
mmm... perhaps I'm just too used to that? :headscratch: :devil :bolt:
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Now you're simply saying the game has to be played your way. I'm not really a strat bomber or raider type, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but I get turned off by the "force them all to play the way I want it played because that's the way I like to play" argument. In reality, all you're trying to do is artificially re-create something that existed with a higher player count, by making a not-so-insignificant number of the remaining players abandon the the game play features that they enjoy. Not a great solution imho.
The problem is the fact there is absolutely no incentive to interact with other players if you're playing the strategic (and even a tactical) game. If a set of bombers runs into a fighter it is because the bomber formation is either below 20k or someone with a lot more time in their hands than I are waiting up at altitude.
There are ways to prevent people from avoiding interaction with other players and some have been implemented in the past (NOE changes from years ago). However, not enough has been done and the diminishing player base is made that abundantly clear. I feel the following should be implemented;
1. Add additional wind layers that make high alt pinpoint bombing close to impossible.
2. Delay the autoguns from coming up after a base capture. Currently, after a base take the group immediately lands and warps to a different sector of the map.
3. Use smaller maps to focus the action, it would diminish the effect the smaller player base is having on gameplay.
4. Enable zone ENY to work in conjunction with arena ENY. Sure, you can fly your P51 but you need to do it against greater numbers or at least away from the pack.
I haven't logged into AH in about 2 months and I'm hesitant to keep paying for my account anymore. Hopefully something changes soon, but I'm not optimistic.
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How about taking the be nice approach.
Last night I had a fun fight, my tiffy vs. his Spit16. My plane was broken and leaking, but after getting some extension, and making a really nice move to get on his 6, I missed the shot. After a few moves, someone came to assist me, and the Spit shot me down. He then proceeds to jeer me via private message.
Instead of "bring more people next time", try "good fight". It's amazing how some the people who claim uber skills, fly crutch planes, then bloviate about how awesome they are. Give it a rest, be encouraging and you may find you have more fights.
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How about taking the be nice approach.
(snip)
Instead of "bring more people next time", try "good fight".
You should try flying IL2 CLoD on ATAG or ACG. This behavior is the norm. To be fair, I do not doubt that it is the norm for most of the players in AH as well.
IL2 BoS? Ahhhhh....well, sometimes it is the norm. ;)
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I get what it's supposed to do and even noted that in my post. As I said, the problem is it detracts from game. It also could be handled in other ways which would not, such as community involvement, temporary bans for repeat offenders, points or kill subtraction, or a combination of these things. This is how it is done in other online air combat communities, so what makes Aces High different?
Air Warrior had the PNG (Persona Non Grata) system to deal with friendly fire. If you shot down 2 friendly planes within 24 hours, you were given Persona Non Grata status (not able to lift off with any ammo). If you shot down more than 2 friendly planes in a 24 hour period, each friendly after the 2nd friendly plane you shot down adds another 24 hours, which meant that you could possibly go for days without any ammo if you went on a team killing spree. The whines of being PNG were so loud that it was near deafening, far more whines than you'd ever see about the killshooter.
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Guys, respectfully, you don't get it. Not sure why, maybe because you've never really played other flight combat sims. AH is an abberation. Even WAR THUNDER, a game some of you regularly put down, has bloody friendly fire. Are there griefers there? Sure, but its minimal. In all my years playing on all of them I've been shot down by a friendly a handful of times. If the community is filled with people who are that immature, its not a wonder that it is slowly shrinking.
This community never ceases to amaze me with its close-minded, insular mindset.
How is the statement in red possible when you start with the statement in blue.
We do get it sir. HiTech does get it sir. We've been down that road, it was a dead end. If nothing else look at it this way. The MA killshooter teaches you where YOU made a mistake and with those lessons you can fly the FSO's without killshooter and know what not to do to not shoot down your team mate.
Those that do not learn History, are destined to repeat it.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
Killshooter is like kind of like the old saying if you don't have sense enough to come out of the rain then you don't deserve to be dry...
If you can't keep from being killed by shooting a friendly then you don't deserve to be alive... :aok
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How is the statement in red possible when you start with the statement in blue.
I believe I already apologized for this. I will strive to not insult with what follows.
In the end it is HTC's game and decision. But AH sticks out like a sore thumb in comparison to competitors, not just for killshooter but several other gamey features and dated concepts, which I'll let be rather than start some giant flame war over. And let's be clear, those other games out there ARE competing products in the minds of potential new customers, regardless of how AH players may view them.
These 'save AH' posts always seem to revolve around trying to get new people to see how great this game is, bringing back the great old days where furballers were everywhere, base captures were epic, etc. But what I can't recall is seeing one question: What if potential customers have and are trying the game but just dont view it the same way you guys do? What if many of them only see gamey features, dated graphics, mechanical and repetative gameplay, a monthly subscription required, an old FM, etc? I hope I am wrong, but I do think more see it that way than don't and that's not good.
o7
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I have no doubt that most players of other flight Sims who have played for any reasonable amount of time have more than likely heard of Aces High.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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I have no doubt that most players of other flight Sims who have played for any reasonable amount of time have more than likely heard of Aces High.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
those that I have spoken to either can't get to grips with AH because they find it too difficult / hard to learn / want fast paced fights.
Or the graphics suck and other games have better eye candy.
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As I stated in a previous post AW had a new player arena for new players only. It was a great idea. Getting experience before entering the big boy arena was fun and useful.
They also at one time had a course of training events - I believe you signed up for the "course" and it was once a week for a month or so. Covered fighter maneuvers, bombers, etc. This might be helpful in getting players up to speed, if it were offered. I can not remember if there was a fee for that training or not. Of course, that was back when you were paying either $6/hr (GeNIE) or $2/hr through Delphi, so it wasn't anywhere near free in the terms we think of today...
Mike
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They also at one time had a course of training events - I believe you signed up for the "course" and it was once a week for a month or so. Covered fighter maneuvers, bombers, etc. This might be helpful in getting players up to speed, if it were offered. I can not remember if there was a fee for that training or not. Of course, that was back when you were paying either $6/hr (GeNIE) or $2/hr through Delphi, so it wasn't anywhere near free in the terms we think of today...
Mike
That was the Air Warrior Training Academy and IIRC, it was a six week course. I still have my original AWTA training manual from AW.
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wwiionline used to do this reasonably well in that it had lots of town to fight over but not all were able to be captured all the time. You had to open routes to the next town in order to assault it. You could not simply bypass the fight.
I think this is the simplest thing to do and would help a lot.. You could keep all maps large and small. All forms of combat would ensue in a combat game.
1. Add additional wind layers that make high alt pinpoint bombing close to impossible.
2. Delay the autoguns from coming up after a base capture. Currently, after a base take the group immediately lands and warps to a different sector of the map.
3. Use smaller maps to focus the action, it would diminish the effect the smaller player base is having on gameplay.
4. Enable zone ENY to work in conjunction with arena ENY. Sure, you can fly your P51 but you need to do it against greater numbers or at least away from the pack.
I haven't logged into AH in about 2 months and I'm hesitant to keep paying for my account anymore. Hopefully something changes soon, but I'm not optimistic.
All points are on the mark.
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These 'save AH' posts always seem to revolve around trying to get new people to see how great this game is, bringing back the great old days where furballers were everywhere, base captures were epic, etc. But what I can't recall is seeing one question: What if potential customers have and are trying the game but just dont view it the same way you guys do? What if many of them only see gamey features, dated graphics, mechanical and repetative gameplay, a monthly subscription required, an old FM, etc? I hope I am wrong, but I do think more see it that way than don't and that's not good.
Oh hey Invictus.. didn't even know you played AH. What's up man, I'll see you soon on TWB ts I'm sure. :D
Besides the old FM part... (it's actually not bad compared to a lot of games) this is pretty much what people see... an old game with dated graphics, and dated features. Everyone I've convinced to play AH didn't stick around for more than a month. From what I've seen of the beta so far, it's not going to be any better unfortunately.
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Hah! What's up, Krup!? And yeah, I'll be back on sometime this weekend I'm sure. Still a little irritated about the hacker on WoL a few weeks ago. Kind of soured BoS for me a bit, but I'll be back. Been hitting the CLoD servers of late.
Oh, I am only trying out AH beta these days. My comments and critiques aside, I do like AH and hope AH III is a success.
But I still think killshooter is stupid. :D
o7
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I play BoS almost every day, I've seen that guy playing a lot, but it doesn't seem like he's been doing anything suspicious. I've tried CloD a few times.. not sure I really like the flight models, the planes almost seem to fly too predictably. Not to mention the way TrackIR works in 109s when you're trying to aim down the sight....
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I play BoS almost every day, I've seen that guy playing a lot, but it doesn't seem like he's been doing anything suspicious. I've tried CloD a few times.. not sure I really like the flight models, the planes almost seem to fly too predictably. Not to mention the way TrackIR works in 109s when you're trying to aim down the sight....
Oh God, not you too! Pand complains about the sight as well. Just lean over to the right when you are going to shoot.
CLoD's FM isnt nearly as advanced as BoS, but it is not bad. Better than the old IL2 1946 FM for sure. I think of it as somewhere between the War Thunder Sim Battle and BoS's FM. The improvements to the FM that Team Fusion is introducing with the new 5.0 patch should make things more interesting, not to mention the new African theater and planes like the 109F, Spitfire V and P40.