Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Greebo on August 22, 2016, 10:37:42 AM
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Thanks to Lyric1 for finding the photos for this skin. These are shown and this aircraft is discussed in his Japanese Profiles thread (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,296356.msg5067173.html#msg5067173).
This 19th Sentai Ki-61 was captured by US forces in the Philippines and later restored to flying condition for combat testing. It was inherited by the 19th from another fighter group whose tail markings were over-painted with the 19th's symbol. At some point in its service history the upper surfaces of the factory bare metal finish had been over-painted in green.
My interpretation of the photos is that this was likely to have been the group CO's personal aircraft. Partly this is based on the unusual number "0" on the tail and the two differently coloured rank bands on the fuselage. Even more more unusual is that the 19th group ID symbol appears to be a lighter shade on the right side than the left and that the spinner appears to have a multi-coloured design that I have assumed represents the three squadron ID colours of red, blue and yellow. Note the multi-coloured spinner appears static in these screenshots but animates realistically when viewed in the game.
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c155/Jonchaz/Screenshots%20Japanese/19th_Sentai_Ki-61_SC1_zps2lgwqk9x.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c155/Jonchaz/Screenshots%20Japanese/19th_Sentai_Ki-61_SC2_zps8lgscyal.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c155/Jonchaz/Screenshots%20Japanese/19th_Sentai_Ki-61_SC3_zpss0nkvt1h.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c155/Jonchaz/Screenshots%20Japanese/19th_Sentai_Ki-61_SC4_zpsv601qwpb.jpg)
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That is gorgeous!
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Very nice!
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Beautiful, Greebo!
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I'm curious why you colored the spinner as such. There doesn't much precedent for such colorations even on a squadron leader's personal ride.
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:aok
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:aok
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Nice! That's slick.
Do you know why they have the tail marking in red outlined in white on one side and all yellow on the other?
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Nice! That's slick.
Do you know why they have the tail marking in red outlined in white on one side and all yellow on the other?
One of the reference pictures has the tail marking in a similar color to the "meatball" on the left side. All pictures of the right side show the tail marking matching the darker stripe while being lighter than the "meatball"
That said, only one pic has the tail marking as matching the red - The other pictures have it a shade closer to the yellow stripe to my eyes.
See here: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,296356.225.html
Regarding the spinner, The more I look at the reference photos, the less I see any intricate pattern. every shot except one shows a regular paint job.
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Looking at the photos again I agree yellow on both sides for the fin flash is more likely to be the correct arrangement, so I'll change the red flash to yellow.
The one photo that shows the multi-colour scheme for the spinner is the only one that is lit in bright sunlight and from behind the cameraman. The other photos are all shot in poorer light with the angle of the sun putting spinner largely in shadow from the POV of the cameraman. If the spinner was painted just one colour then that does not explain the photo that shows it with a split scheme.
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Looking at the photos again I agree yellow on both sides for the fin flash is more likely to be the correct arrangement, so I'll change the red flash to yellow.
You know why in some photos the left side tail emblem looks to be very light in colour yellow like & in some it doesn't it appears red like?
Because the left side horizontal stabilizer on the upper surface is bare metal. When the sun hits it right it gives it a lighter appearance.
Notice the fillet on the left side of the horizontal stabilizer parts of it are painted & some of it is bare metal. Where the fillet ends & the horizontal stabilizer begins it is all bare metal.
So here are two images on a slightly overcast moment the tail emblem matches the red meatball on the fuselage.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/ffa3e265-2739-403b-8d75-4913ecb038b6_zpsqj6to1pe.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/ffa3e265-2739-403b-8d75-4913ecb038b6_zpsqj6to1pe.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/7acef7fc-cf42-4893-915f-5555dd3bb9ad_zpsgoo2aaqy.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/7acef7fc-cf42-4893-915f-5555dd3bb9ad_zpsgoo2aaqy.jpg.html)
Slightly brighter in this image tail badge loosing its red red look.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/a028ce99-fc61-40c0-9533-b9367d539fe7_zpszvd7vqyv.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/a028ce99-fc61-40c0-9533-b9367d539fe7_zpszvd7vqyv.jpg.html)
Now these two the sun is bright & directly overhead.
Now they look yellow like because of the mirror effect of the bare metal.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/baa13b69-9757-46e3-b5af-7da800d1c559_zpscsvondd9.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/baa13b69-9757-46e3-b5af-7da800d1c559_zpscsvondd9.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/0d723f32-0880-42cd-84df-3e3842118bf6_zpssdlobmey.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/0d723f32-0880-42cd-84df-3e3842118bf6_zpssdlobmey.jpg.html)
Now the right side fillet & horizontal stabilizer is clearly painted in full.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/b76c48f4-2569-4533-9a51-47d0ae5bafc6_zpsgvabuttj.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/b76c48f4-2569-4533-9a51-47d0ae5bafc6_zpsgvabuttj.jpg.html)
No mirror effect on the logo & this side is clearly not a match to the red fuselage meatball.
Leave the left side red Greebo it is correct. :aok
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Sorry Lyric, but that horizontal stab is not bare metal. There is extensive paint wear on the fillet but what you are seeing is paint with a semi-gloss finish.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/7acef7fc-cf42-4893-915f-5555dd3bb9ad_zpsgoo2aaqy.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/7acef7fc-cf42-4893-915f-5555dd3bb9ad_zpsgoo2aaqy.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/a028ce99-fc61-40c0-9533-b9367d539fe7_zpszvd7vqyv.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/a028ce99-fc61-40c0-9533-b9367d539fe7_zpszvd7vqyv.jpg.html)
These pics clearly show the painted surface and the chips on the fillet are distinctly different.
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They painted one surface area gloss and every other upper surface not?
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No the whole plane is painted with the same finish, but the highlights are only apparent at certain angles. Look at the fuselage in the bottom pic in my post - sunlight is reflected over a large area from that angle, just like the it is on the horizontal stab in the other pics you posted. Catching a reflection on film requires the correct angles of sun position to surface and surface to camera, otherwise you wont see it.
The paint chips are much brighter and the reflected light much more intense than the painted areas reflecting light into the camera.
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I don't think the top of the horizontal tail is NMF either, in the photo of the plane taken from the LH rear it is a similar shade to the top of the wing. Also there is too much of a difference between the lighter paint chips on the fillet.
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Well if it is a gloss paint finish then the same mirror effect is going on as I stated before with the sun light.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/ffa3e265-2739-403b-8d75-4913ecb038b6_zpsqj6to1pe.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/ffa3e265-2739-403b-8d75-4913ecb038b6_zpsqj6to1pe.jpg.html)
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Are you guys pretty sure that gloss or semi-gloss paint would've been used? I have no particular source for this, but I have always assumed camo-type colors - the greens, browns, olive drabs, greys, etc - would've all been a flat finish. Insiginia colors and artwork, though, I could imagine using a paint with a little more gloss on those.
Is it possible the sheen we're seeing on the horizontal tail is rain, mist, or dew? The day does look overcast, and the weather there was probably often wet?
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What you might consider "gloss" or "matt" is different on airplanes. Even "matt" finishes could have a sheen on them, especially on a sunny day. To make a plane fully non-reflective at any angle or lighting would require a lot of very rough paint, which would create drag. The paint was formulated to do the best job it could while being as light as possible, weight-wise.
Greebo: The explanation is that the plane is currently shot up and being repaired and has been repaired already. The different color demarcation on the tail joint and the paint shows that they replaced the tail already and painted over the prior markings with fresh green paint (hence the color difference between the rest of the fuselage and the tail unit). The nose cones were interchangeable and were also repainted as damage came up, and put on planes that needed them. Fresh OD looks remarkably different than old OD on B&W film stock. The quality of the film and the quality of its processing and how well it ages can make radically different colors look the same or it can make very similar colors look quite different. This is why color film was created and developed.
I disagree with the interpretation that it was a tri-color flash type of painting on the spinner. That's out of character for similar planes of the time and place and there's little precedent to allow one to draw that kind of conclusion.
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Is it possible the sheen we're seeing on the horizontal tail is rain, mist, or dew? The day does look overcast, and the weather there was probably often wet?
Seems possible explains the white areas on top of the horizontal stabilizer showing a reflection off of the squadron logo.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/8ada0942-f1e7-48ae-9140-5b328fa814ac_zpsit2tuysq.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/8ada0942-f1e7-48ae-9140-5b328fa814ac_zpsit2tuysq.jpg.html)
Looking at the photos again I agree yellow on both sides for the fin flash is more likely to be the correct arrangement, so I'll change the red flash to yellow.
The one photo that shows the multi-colour scheme for the spinner is the only one that is lit in bright sunlight and from behind the cameraman. The other photos are all shot in poorer light with the angle of the sun putting spinner largely in shadow from the POV of the cameraman. If the spinner was painted just one colour then that does not explain the photo that shows it with a split scheme.
Thinking about this some more we already have an example of a squadron leader KI-61 with two different colour tail squadron emblems. So it is not with out a precedent on this point.
Still shot from the Youtube video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ZkXPB1tg4
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/OkiKi-61_2_zpszs64ea0v.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/OkiKi-61_2_zpszs64ea0v.jpg.html)
The 56th Sentai squadron logo is clearly painted in white.
The later logo from the 55th Sentai is red with a white boarder.
Now look at the profile for this aircraft.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/Untitled_zps5kjfryjm.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/Untitled_zps5kjfryjm.jpg.html)
The 56th Sentai logo on the other side of the aircraft is yellow.
No colour picture of this side of the plane there is a black and white image though.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/leak8_zps6g1qliv3.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/leak8_zps6g1qliv3.jpg.html)
So is the 56th Sentai badge the same colour as the white boarder of the 55th Sentai badge? I don't think so.
This side looks to be a match to the profile.
Keeping with the theme of different colour spinner for squadron leader I still think Greebo is correct with the original offering of this skin.
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New photo that was on EBAY.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/s-l1600_zpshbd4c3r3.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/s-l1600_zpshbd4c3r3.jpg.html)
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Thanks Lyric1, good to have another RH side photo and that is a lot better than the other two.
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Thanks Lyric1, good to have another RH side photo and that is a lot better than the other two.
Anytime. :aok
Now that we have several actual photos in similar lighting conditions.
What colours do we have either side of the tail emblem?
:headscratch:
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/th_777b411a-f8ed-46bd-9de0-5775621c5344_zpswh01vgkx.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/777b411a-f8ed-46bd-9de0-5775621c5344_zpswh01vgkx.jpg.html)(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/th_bba195c1-506b-40a6-8bdf-f82e260c6cda_zpspeoazbjy.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/bba195c1-506b-40a6-8bdf-f82e260c6cda_zpspeoazbjy.jpg.html)(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/th_7fd5bafd-8fcb-451d-a11d-83440260e895_zpszsswoucx.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/7fd5bafd-8fcb-451d-a11d-83440260e895_zpszsswoucx.jpg.html)
If the first stripe on the fuselage from the cockpit is yellow then I would say based off these three photos both tail emblems are yellow.
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New photo that was on EBAY.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ki-61/s-l1600_zpshbd4c3r3.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ki-61/s-l1600_zpshbd4c3r3.jpg.html)
Looks like the spinner is one color here too - probably yellow
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Do you guys ever run these jpeg through a coloriser app just to get a Kentucky wind-age idea of the colors?
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There's no validity in such a thing. Colorization is made up.
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Y'all are some bad sonostudmuffinuns finding and painting these aircraft props to you for your work.
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