Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sloehand on September 22, 2016, 11:21:20 PM
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FEEDBACK WANTED!!!
[1] Do you intend to fly in the upcoming Scenario ‘Tunisia 1943’?
[2] If not, why not?
[3] And what can the event coordinators do to encourage you to join in to a Scenario in the future?
Explanation –
I think Brooke and Co. would really like to know the feeling of the community on this. We all know that the CM’s work really hard to put on the scenarios (and FSO too) and are trying everything they can to make them a more enjoyable event. But constructive feedback from the community is necessary to continue this process.
Tell us why you don’t, or won’t, or haven’t ever participate[d] in a Scenario.
I know people have played this game for lots of reasons over the years. Some just like to furball, others like the win-the-war competition, some even like the sense of immersion into what it was like to fly and fight in WWII aircraft.
Back in the day, which for me was just over 10 years ago, the very first scenario I was in was the first running of ‘Der Grosse Schlag’. It was a phenomenal success. More than 150 pilots per side, clashing over Germany in massed bomber attacks and spirited fighter melee’s. I was forever hooked on the strategic planning aspect as well as the tactical execution of joint fighter missions, scouting and intercepting bomber streams inbound and outbound from trying to crush several targets in the Fatherland. I got my highest number of kills of any scenario ever flying a Fw190 A-6 against B-17’s and B24’s. The anticipation of combat was excitingly tense and exhilarating. Even though it was just cartoon play acting, you couldn’t help buying into the urgency and commitment of the moment in trying to find the enemy bomber formations, tracking their movement while vectoring friendly fighter sweeps to the attack. I sensed the Allies too, were fully invested in their missions to win the battle, evidenced by the constant and persistent defense by P-38 Lightenings and P-51 Mustangs and P-47 Thunderbolts.
For me, this was and is, the epitome of enjoyment of a WWII air combat simulation game. Quite simply, if you haven’t joined a Scenario before, for whatever reason, give it a chance. Try it, you might like it.
And if it’s turned you off in the past for some reason, well, I can only say that a number of players issues have been heard over the years, and Brooke has worked stupidly hard to alleviate them. The battle spaces are now a little more compact allowing for faster and more frequent opportunities for combat. Past concerns of squadrons flying around all frame, unable to intercept the enemy and engage in combat are now rare if not actually non-existent, as the last Scenario ‘Dneiper’ proved. It was non-stop mayhem from Frame 1 through Fame 4, with the ebb and tide of each sides fortunes changing each frame.
Please, consider giving Brooke and the Scenario event builders a hand by providing them with some constructive feedback, so they can provide you and the AH community with an alternative way to enjoy Aces High III.
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I flew in 2 FSO scenarios a couple of years ago. In the first one we managed to get into 2 fights, both lasted a few minutes before the skies were clear. In the 2nd one I saw 1 formation of 234 bombers and they were going to fast for us to catch them. Never saw a fight at all.
I was so bored I determined to never try again.
The other day I did pop into the scenario and there were 6 players on. I asked a question and no response was forthcoming so I left. In another post it was explained that everyone was in combat and were unable to reply. I accept that but I really have no desire to try again.
Now I know some will level all sorts of crap at me for not being patient enough and that the FSO scenarios are really good and I must have been unlucky blah blah blah. Truth is my experience was so poor I cannot see me trying it again. I hope you can accept my comments and respect my honesty as that is what you requested.
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I appreciate your response Fess. However, from your post I think there may be some confusion. The reason I say that is (and I may have mislead you in my wording at one point in the original post) you talk about 'FSO scenarios'. They are two different events. "FSO" is a type of Special Event held on Friday nights. "Scenarios" are a different type of Special Event. While they are somewhat similar, there are some significant rule/format differences. My post was only trying give a nod of appreciation to the people who provide FSO's, but the main focus was on Scenarios.
It's also possible, from the sound of your response, you might even be referring to one of the other, smaller Special Events like AvA, or a Snapshot, considering the small number of people you found there. FSO typically involves 150 to 200 players, while Scenarios used to have as many as 300+, but now are around 150 or so. The AvA doesn't usually have more than 2 or 3 dozen players (at least that I've ever seen), similar numbers for a Snapshot as well.
Further, while Scenarios do allow walk-ons on the days (usually 4 Saturdays in a row) of the event, they are eagerly greeted and asked which side they want to play on. Unlikely you would have been ignored, unless you were way, way too early for the side C.O.s to be on. FSO's on the other hand, don't allow walk-ons at all. You must first contact a participating squad and ask to join them IN ADVANCE of a Friday night's event. Most squads in FSO are also glad to accept additional pilots, but you have to have their permission before the event starts.
Not to belittle your response, I am a bit skeptical that what you tried to join was actually a Scenario, but more likely one of these other events. And even if it was a Scenario, as I mentioned, in the past some players were put off by how large the event battle spaces were, and occasionally a squadron had a hard time finding a fight. But the most recent Scenarios have been purposely set up to alleviate this issue, and combat is now exceedingly easy to find. In fact, it usually finds you whether you're ready for it or not. :noid The last one "Dneiper", held last summer was extremely intense with non-stop action for everyone. I don't remember a single complaint about being bored.
Further, the new 12 hour in one day format (as opposed to the 4 Saturdays format) has been run once before with great success. This next one we expect will be the same as it was specifically asked for my the players. You will be able to fly anytime you want during the day, for as long or as little as you want, you can come and go when you want, all day long. And with UNLIMITED number of lives. Plus we're expecting more pilots at certain times for this one because with the 12 hour timeframe, European players will join in as well.
In any event, I do appreciate your responding. If I can help clarify anything or provide you with any more information about the Scenarios, or the FSO's which I play as well, please just ask. Handle is the same in the game as in here. :salute
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Background: I did fly/drive in four scenarios.
[1] No
[2] I very much dislike 'being in uniform', sticking to a formation, following orders, not being able to do 'my thing', not being able to go AFK for extended times.
I absolutely HATE 'being in uniform' and not seeing any action for hours, which has happened more than once to me. I actually had two frames where I never saw any enemy at all. The only scenario that was really fun to me was the original DGS. The rest was work. I hate work.
[3] Nothing. I'm afraid a scenario that would allow players to do what they want on an individual level would not be a scenario any more ;)
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I plan on playing. The 12 hour format is better for me because it is far easier for me to schedule and work around commitments one long day than to take up 4 weekends in a row.
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Thanks for the response. For clarity.
I tried FSO twice as part of an authorised squad. Bored me beyond belief, will not try again.
Tried to join a scenario last week. Walk ons welcome. Tried to walk on, was not welcomed. Will not try again.
Happy to stay in MA.
I think there is no confusion on my end
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I enjoy scenarios quite a bit. Scored pretty high in a few. Had a few issues with caustic players. Squad participation dropped. Adopted Rorschach attitude.
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Looking forward to my first scenario--as are the rest of the newly formed 475thFG.
Feedback will be forthcoming.
Dobs
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Yes, I will be attending.
The only thing I will hope that can be coordinated is that squads are able to find each other and create big fights. If there is no large action squad fights, there will be a lot of people who get bored. I find that if teams can coordinate to where more squads run into each other and create large action furballs, you will see a lot of excitement and will get good results.
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As a recent returnee my experience is from Scenarios long ago.
The whole process of selecting CO's, assigning a fixed number of slots and then signing up players to join a new unit is quite cumbersome and can result is significant difficulties for groups that are already well established to try to fit into the process, especially if you cant get everyone from your group into the same unit in the scenario.
The 475FG is signed up to fly the Tunisia 1943 scenario but there have already been rumblings of not accommodating all of our members into one unit, flying together.
That was my biggest gripe in the past. The group was often split up and/or assigned to leaders who tried to force the group to conform to their vision of operations instead of allowing us to operate together with our own flight leads filling their accustomed roles.
In the real world, rank rules on the ground but ability (in this context experience as a team) leads the flying and it should be the same in the scenario.
An established structure for administration prior to the events and during the event to assign units to particular objectives is great but, for established units wishing to fly together, some allowance should be made so that those units can participate as a unit with tactical control exercised by their internal staff under direction of the Scenario Unit CO's.
This is meant as an honest response to the OP's questions and not any sort of slight towards anyone involved with this or any other Scenario.
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Yes,
Its a nice change of pace rather than fighting a pack of la7s/spit16s and other latewar hogs. Historical matchups have always struck my interest.
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[1] Do you intend to fly in the upcoming Scenario ‘Tunisia 1943’?
[2] If not, why not?
[3] And what can the event coordinators do to encourage you to join in to a Scenario in the future?
I intend to fly a 202 in the Tunisia scenario - with a proviso that applies to the third question. I've never flown in a scenario before because I just can't commit to be here much more than a day before (if then!). The most useful thing that the scenario people have done over the past couple of years, IMHO, is this 12-hour, come-when-you-can notion. I've read that it worked before, and I hope it works for me this time.
- oldman
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I've been in a few walk on scenarios.
One was fun, in another I couldn't find the enemy, and in another I flew for an hour, got shot down immediately and could not take off again (one plane).
I have been invited to and flew FSO a few nights, but I don't have the patience for the loooong flight to get to the fights.
Pearl harbor is a very fun one.
I wish I could commit to this long one, but can't.
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Probably not. I'll have to work. If not for that then yes, I do enjoy scenarios.
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Thanks for the response. For clarity.
I tried FSO twice as part of an authorised squad. Bored me beyond belief, will not try again.
Tried to join a scenario last week. Walk ons welcome. Tried to walk on, was not welcomed. Will not try again.
Happy to stay in MA.
I think there is no confusion on my end
Fess -
There is confusion on your part, because you seem to think that a weekly FSO event is a Scenario and it is NOT. An FSO (which is what you actually tried to join last week) IS NOT A SCENARIO, which is something completely different. I know this because of your statement "Tried to join a scenario last week". There was no scenario last week or the week before. There was an FSO held last week, and the week before that, and will also be held this week. The very last Scenario was held this last summer, over two months ago.
I'm pretty sure you are responded with your opinion of FSO's and not Scenarios. Two different types of Special Event. I'm wanting responses on Scenario's only, not FSO's. There are significant differences between them. Because of your responses so far, I don't think you've ever been in a "SCENARIO". It's set up differently than an FSO, and you join up in a different way as well. You might want to investigate a Scenario sometime. :salute
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Think fess came across people doing an arena test....
I've got a spot for you lazer if you want... :rock
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Background: I did fly/drive in four scenarios.
[1] No
[2] I very much dislike 'being in uniform', sticking to a formation, following orders, not being able to do 'my thing', not being able to go AFK for extended times.
I absolutely HATE 'being in uniform' and not seeing any action for hours, which has happened more than once to me. I actually had two frames where I never saw any enemy at all. The only scenario that was really fun to me was the original DGS. The rest was work. I hate work.
[3] Nothing. I'm afraid a scenario that would allow players to do what they want on an individual level would not be a scenario any more ;)
Lusche-
I fully expect you to know nearly everything there is to know about AH and Special Events given what I've read in your posts.
Given your response (which is appreciated), clearly Scenarios are not for you. And they won't be for everyone.
The reason for this straw poll was for me, and Brooke and the Scenario Team, to try to understand what's holding people back from joining in. I've talked to lots of players in the MA about joining a Scenario, and time and time again, they tell me they don't know what it is or how to join. Or, that the 4 Saturday format won't work for them. Or, like you, they flew a whole frame with no action whatsoever.
Well, I'm trying to make sure people know about Scenarios and how to join, and that the new 12 hour format gives people more choice and control over how and when they play. Seems more people can schedule time on a single day easier than over 4 Saturday afternoons.
As for the issue of inaction, the layout and objectives in recent Scenarios have been purposely designed to increase by concentrating the points of conflict closer together, allowing shorter transit times to the action. Also, the number of required missions and targets that must be hit, has been increased to provide more combat opportunities. The was proven in the last scenario 'Dneiper", which was a constant, non-stop fight in a very compact battle space. Bad guys were over your bases and in-your-face in less than 10 minutes from the opening each frame, and it never stopped for the full 3 hours each day.
Now they are bringing this together in the 12 hour, play when and as much as you like, format. It should be a riot.
However, for such a seat-of-the-pants Lobo like you ( :salute ), there is nothing anyone can do to alleviate the need for uniforms, strategic assignments, mission discipline, etc. The only place for you is the MA where you can play in the way that makes you happy. Which is as it should be.
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I've been in a few walk on scenarios.
One was fun, in another I couldn't find the enemy, and in another I flew for an hour, got shot down immediately and could not take off again (one plane).
I have been invited to and flew FSO a few nights, but I don't have the patience for the loooong flight to get to the fights.
Pearl harbor is a very fun one.
I wish I could commit to this long one, but can't.
Read some of my responses to Fess here. The issue of long flights and no action has and is, being addressed successfully. The last Scenario "Dneiper" was a blast of immediate action within 10 minutes of the opening frame... for everyone. Not saying it's not impossible to fly to the wrong place a the wrong time and see nothing, but it's getting to be a rare animal in scenarios as the planners have increase required number of missions, and made the overall battlespace smaller in general. Enemy targets are only a few minutes away from either side. It's constant mayhem. Personally, in the last one, "Dneiper" I was exhausted by the end of each frame. I literally had a minimum of 5 or 6 different combat engagements against the enemy each frame. The first frame I started off defending a base from an in-bound attack, both mid-alt and another NOE, then I was escorting an attack mission to its target, next on a scouting and tracking assignment, then I attacked an NOE flight of IL2's before they reached their target ( got 3 of them). Then another base defense and finally another 109 pilot and I provided escort to our own NOE Jabo attack. This last was the most exciting of all as just the two of us played dodgeball with several LA-5's and a couple of Yaks. All but one of our Fw190 F-8's made it home safely. It was nail-biting fun.
If you put in the effort and don't get discouraged easily (meaning a dedicated pilot who doesn't quit 'period') this can be the most fun possible in Aces High, and especially as we are now fly AH III.
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Did all 12 hours of TFT. Looking forward to all 12 of this one, in a 14th FG P38G.
What I like about the 12 hour scenario:
1. Thinking on the fly. Having a week to plan the next phase battle plan is not as challenging as adapting to the current sitrep.
2. Everyone, worldwide, has the opportunity to join in for, for at least a few hours.
And I enjoy the history that other players bring to it; pilot stories, music, pictures, etc
Cya There :cheers:
LtngRydr
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Tried to join a scenario last week. Walk ons welcome. Tried to walk on, was not welcomed. Will not try again.
Happy to stay in MA.
I think there is no confusion on my end
Howdy, Fess.
There was no Scenario last week. Scenarios run only about 3 times per year, and the last one was in June. A Scenario is a particular event that is different from an FSO, Snapshot, "This Day in WWII", etc.
You probably have not played in a Scenario yet.
The people who run Scenarios love walkons. I know this with 100% certainty, because I am the guy who runs Scenarios and assigns walkons. :aok
I love walkons so much that I am personally asking you to fly with us on October 22nd (the date of the next Scenario). :aok
You can come as a walkon, or you can register and be a planned part of the team (which we prefer, but . . . we LOVE WALKONS!) :D
Here's who is flying in it so far:
http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201610_TunisiaFeb43/registration/registration.html
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not seeing any action for hours
I can't help you with the rest of your items, but this particular one isn't an issue these days.
The lowest-action scenario in recent times was Der Grosse Schlag II in 2012 -- because of its very large playing area and being based on high-alt strategic bombing missions. Everything else since then has had several times more missions/battles per frame.
Even so, the other things would make it so that Scenarios aren't for you -- but you gave them a try, and for that, I am grateful to you, for trying it out. <S>! :aok
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Scenarios are the only part of virtual reality in this game as is FSO. The MA is not anywhere close to being a simulated WWII combat Sim. I'm not a huge fan of seeing P51s' attack B17s.
It didn't happen in WWII. There is no virtual reality connected to anything in the Melee arena. It is plainly a PC game with modeled aircraft and gvs to point and shoot at one another.
Some being better then others for what the player wishes to do. Scenarios are a rare event. It encourages team building, one gets to know others in the community by participating and the
air craft in the scenario are of the period when the Scenario takes place. No P47Ms shooting down Lancaster's or tangling with Spitfires. We each have reasons for playing. None being better then another.
As they say it's your 15 bucks. Scenarios and FSO at least try to present what a player who loves virtual reality, with plane sets and terrain of that time period in history.
Do I play in the Melee Arena? Sure. This month I've been there a lot. A lot more then I have in years just to get used to the environment. If you want DOOM with wings the Melee Arena is the place to be.
Scenarios pique my interest. And I participate in them. History!
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For anyone wanting the list of past scenarios:
http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/scenarios.html
Also, that page has links to pictorial after-action reports for each one, showing what the action was like from my perspective flying in them.
Sometimes perhaps too much action for my particular position. :D
Ah, the memories! :aok
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201501_BattleOverWinterLine/pics/frame4/006-hittingOne-SNAG-0006.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201406_PacificWar/pics/frame4/015-chasedOut-SNAG-0032.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201309_BattleOfBritain2013/pics/frame4/007-uhOh--SNAG-0012.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201110_enemyCoastAhead/pics/frame1/007-chasedOut-Image-0011.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201105_roadToRangoon/pics/frame4/004-dodging-Image-0006.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201102_battleOverGermany/pics/frame2/016-hits-Image-0025.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201008_philippinePhandango/pics/frame2/009-onRun-Image-0021.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201003_finalBattle/pics/frame2/010-leaving-Image-0018.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200907_coralSea2009/pics/frame3/011-8more-Image-0025.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200903_tunisia/pics/frame2/030-p40Down-Image-0051.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200811_battleOfBritain2008/pics/frame4/009-didntNotice-Image-0018.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200808_rangoon42/pics/frame1/008_enemyContact.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200710_derGrosseSchlag/pics/frame4/Image-0075.jpg)
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Scenarios are the only part of virtual reality in this game as is FSO. The MA is not anywhere close to being a simulated WWII combat Sim. I'm not a huge fan of seeing P51s' attack B17s.
It didn't happen in WWII. There is no virtual reality connected to anything in the Melee arena. It is plainly a PC game with modeled aircraft and gvs to point and shoot at one another.
Well, and simply said, Hajo. :salute
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I have participated in 2 or 3 Scenarios, now. I can't commit to every one that comes along, but when I have they have, for the most part, been a lot of fun. The 12-hour long format works best for me. I think I played about 9 or 10 hours in the last 12-hour one.
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I just can't commit to it but if I'm available I will be flying for at least part of it....like others have said, it's a nice change of pace from the MA.
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I can second the notions that you might not find action. I have done several of the last scenarios and each time "making sure every player sees a fast pace of action constantly" has been the primary goal in setups.
Personally I know many people spent over 2 months just hashing out what targets would make for best case of action scenarios.
If you can't find quick action, in current scenarios it would be beyond me to think how... You literally would need to have a broken radio, compass, and no chat bar, with your monitor turned off..