Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on September 27, 2016, 07:47:38 AM
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So after my wife's warm up session with the .357 magnum, we re-target and her first 6 shots are upper quadrant, almost holes inside of holes. Last picture, red target.
Dang!
Everything I've ever taught her she does better than me. To lose the title of "the best shot in the house" will deduct massive man card points!
Amazing shot for just 1 - 8 hr NRA pistol class that she took 2 weeks ago.
The body target, all shots are hers except the "left arm" that I put 6 shots thru.
She's addicted. :) Good thing I reload.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Kids/i-MXZzKbT/0/L/173609_2de80b149301919c2e9179c25eedac0f-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Kids/i-VnndfCj/0/L/173610_9dff061371d07f15649141dc7069d78c-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Kids/i-zBqvhB9/0/L/173611_576304422ebcfef38b119c8c71b8432e-L.jpg)
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Nice group. What distance was that?
My wife shoots tight groups as well, but not much interest in shooting.
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21 feet (7 yards)
Where you live, Colmbo, you'd think it was a state requirement to learn to shoot. :)
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21 feet? I can throw a rock and kill someone from that distance!
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Looks like a 686.... .357 can be a bit daunting for the ladies. Kudos to your wife...
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Model 66-3 Widewing.
DaveBB, 7 yards is standard distance for self defense plinkin'.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/SW-357-mag/i-JLbLTvL/0/M/BestA2-M.jpg)
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55% of gunfights take place 0-5 feet.
20% of gunfights take place in 5-10 feet.
75% take place within 10 ft.
20% of gunfights take place in 10-21 feet.
95% of gunfights take place in 0-21 feet.
(Source- FBI)
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55% of gunfights take place 0-5 feet.
20% of gunfights take place in 5-10 feet.
75% take place within 10 ft.
20% of gunfights take place in 10-21 feet.
95% of gunfights take place in 0-21 feet.
(Source- FBI)
I was holding the hand (the one with the knife in it) of the guy I shot.
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55% of gunfights take place 0-5 feet.
20% of gunfights take place in 5-10 feet.
75% take place within 10 ft.
20% of gunfights take place in 10-21 feet.
95% of gunfights take place in 0-21 feet.
(Source- FBI)
:aok
That's what I've been told for many years.
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55% of gunfights take place 0-5 feet.
20% of gunfights take place in 5-10 feet.
75% take place within 10 ft.
20% of gunfights take place in 10-21 feet.
95% of gunfights take place in 0-21 feet.
(Source- FBI)
I would bet that in most of those "gunfights" only 1 guy had a gun and the other had is back turned.
semp
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I would bet that in most of those "gunfights" only 1 guy had a gun and the other had is back turned.
semp
I'll take that bet. IIRC those stats are from law enforcement encounters.
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Don't fool yourself. Gunfights can happen over a much bigger distance than 21 feet. Here is an article refuting the FBI statistics (which are skewed for some reason).
http://www.bluesheepdog.com/police-shooting-distance/
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Don't fool yourself. Gunfights can happen over a much bigger distance than 21 feet. Here is an article refuting the FBI statistics (which are skewed for some reason).
http://www.bluesheepdog.com/police-shooting-distance/
The author isn't refuting that most engagements occur at short range, he's emphasizing the lack of training for longer range shooting. He's right.
My youngest brother (now 51) is a 26 year veteran Deputy Sheriff. He shoots on a regular basis, often with me. We shoot on a 25 yard range and generally run the targets to the back wall. Outside, we often shoot on the 50 yard range. He generally can get all or most rounds grouped well on the silhouette at that distance with his service Glock. He does even better with his personal pistols and his .380 backup Glock. This is trigger related, I'm convinced. The service pistol's trigger breaks at just over 11 lb, which is ridiculous IMO.
When one or more of his fellow Deputies join us, they can't hit diddly at 50 yards, especially with their first couple of mags. Most of these guys seldom shoot outside of the annual qualification at 7 yards. It shows. It's truly caused by the lack of continuing training, and the majority of police departments don't train for longer range pistol shooting. Likewise, many departments do not actively encourage shooting frequently. We are not trainers, but we can have almost any LEO hitting the silhouette reliably inside of half an hour. After which, we break out the shotguns and rifles (actually carbines).
Poor shooting cops are a symptom of inadequate training. It's that simple.
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I'll take that bet. IIRC those stats are from law enforcement encounters.
still applied was it a gunfight with both parties having guns?
semp
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I really like my 4in Mod 66, it is a late model. I've put 300 or so rounds through it mostly with the standard .38 Special load, but about 50 of the .357's have been fired as well. I also have a Mod 67, Mod 69, a Mod 10, and a Mod 642 PC. There is nothing like a S&W revolver. :) I carry a Sig 226/9mm for duty carry, but am hoping I get approval for the Sig 320/9mm.
Also, to whomever is knocking the distance in which the shooter is firing- it isnt about the range but more about the getting the proper techniques while gaining experience. If at 7 yards a person can make a single hole with 5-10 shots that is good. It shows that she has the proper mechanics (no flinch, etc). Kudos to her, it is surprising how many CANT do it even with years of experience and supposed "expertise".
FYI: Most, if not all of the LEO qualification courses have distances of 3 yards to 25 yards built in to them. In South Dakota, we fire at the 3, 7, 15, and 25 yard lines. Plus, we have training classes show casing a variety of grips, stances, and movements while shooting.
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From Dave's article....
I want to meet the "firearms instructor" that this quote is attributed to.... An alarming number of law enforcement firearms instructors are actually telling their students “Don’t worry about the sights…you’ll never need them.”
I simply can not believe a firearms instructor would say that as a way of engaging a target unless it is reactionary shooting, then, you don't use sights.
As for the rest, he brings up points that distance shooting is important, which is very valid. But he provides no data to refute the FBI statistics and spends more time basing his statements on his personal beliefs.
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As one who has spent considerable time on a police range and in the company of law enforcement firearms instructors of multiple agencies and states, I can safely say I have NEVER heard one of them make a statement like that. All of them stress the sights, especially the front one. It was pounded into us in the academy to have a "nearly perfect sight alignment" BEFORE pressing the trigger. That includes the 7 yard line. The only time that sights are not stressed is in grappling radius when you are forced to rely on a point shoot situation in order to not present the firearm to the suspect for a struggle over possession of same. I have to annually qualify, even in retirement, to maintain my title 18 carry. I have to demonstrate as one part of that qualification the ability to hit the target at 3' without using sights with the weapon held at my side protected from a grab attempt using both strong hand and weak hand.
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As one who has spent considerable time on a police range and in the company of law enforcement firearms instructors of multiple agencies and states, I can safely say I have NEVER heard one of them make a statement like that. All of them stress the sights, especially the front one. It was pounded into us in the academy to have a "nearly perfect sight alignment" BEFORE pressing the trigger. That includes the 7 yard line. The only time that sights are not stressed is in grappling radius when you are forced to rely on a point shoot situation in order to not present the firearm to the suspect for a struggle over possession of same. I have to annually qualify, even in retirement, to maintain my title 18 carry. I have to demonstrate as one part of that qualification the ability to hit the target at 3' without using sights with the weapon held at my side protected from a grab attempt using both strong hand and weak hand.
Interesting!
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55% of gunfights take place 0-5 feet.
20% of gunfights take place in 5-10 feet.
75% take place within 10 ft.
20% of gunfights take place in 10-21 feet.
95% of gunfights take place in 0-21 feet.
(Source- FBI)
= 115%
So 115% of gunfights take place with guns?
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Very nice Rip! My dad was a weapons and tactics instructor for the Me. And PA State police. He always said his female trainees were some of his best students....he said they would listen intently, and follow his instructions to the T. Said it always made him happy when a female in the class would out shoot their male counterparts. Big kudos to Mrs Rip :aok
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Has anyone here ever taken a statistics course? The FBI study is a single study, selected for a very specific type of gunfight.
The only study that actually looked at distances of gunfights in a detailed and methodical way was done for Police Marksman magazine by Richard Fairburn in the 1990s. The average distance reported in that study was 14 yards.
https://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/article/what-do-fbi-statistics-really-say-about-gunfights/
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So 115% of gunfights take place with guns?
Not trying to be offensive, but go read those stats again and try not to just add as you go. Look at the actual stats as they are represented and see how the ratios apply.
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Davebb, lol, ok, so the FBI are wrong today based upon a 90's study? You do realize they analyze that data every year?
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Not trying to be offensive, but go read those stats again and try not to just add as you go. Look at the actual stats as they are represented and see how the ratios apply.
it was your own thread. you posted =115%
semp
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it was your own thread. you posted =115%
semp
Bohdi must be one of those hidden mods... he's changed it and removed the 'last edited' stamp!
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Thks mbailey.
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