General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DaveBB on October 10, 2016, 04:12:02 PM
Title: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: DaveBB on October 10, 2016, 04:12:02 PM
As we all know by now, a U.S. Guided Missile Destroyer was attacked by two anti-ship missiles. However, the Navy is only saying "The missiles impacted the water, and did not hit the ship". The USS Mason is equipped with a single 20mm Phalanx CIWS. Did it use that to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: DaveBB on October 10, 2016, 04:38:28 PM
I did a bit of reading. It appears that the Mason has the capability to actually destroy the electronics of incoming missiles with its ECM. Another ship adjacent to the Mason actually had an anti-missile laser.
Quote
But the USS Mason, probably had at least SEWIP Block I or II, making it perfectly capable of frying the missile's seeker with the AN/SLQ or diverting it with a Nulka.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: EagleDNY on October 10, 2016, 08:09:45 PM
If it was attacked by the same C-802 that hit the other ship I wouldn't be surprised if they could just jam that punk radar into oblivion.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: Gman on October 10, 2016, 10:21:31 PM
The CIWS/20mm Phalanx is the very last ditch defense for incoming an anti ship missile, the Burke class ships have SM2/3/6/etc class missiles for longer range air defense against both aircraft and missiles, ESSM evolved Sea Sparrows for closer in air defense which are fantastic now compared to the older Sea Sparrow missiles. Some of the Burke class destroyers have the new SeaRam rolling airframe missile launcher systems too, not sure if the Mason does or not. And, as others have said, a few ships have laser defense systems, but these aren't optimal for fast missiles and are more for drones, small boats, and slower moving targets - for now. I've read that in the 2 VLS fore/aft launchers for most Burkes, that 72 cells are often loaded for anti air warfare, split by 48 SM2 missiles, 8 SM6/other long range/special SM variants, and then 16 tubes for ESSM which are quad packed, giving 64 ESSM shots. That's quite a lot of firepower for one ship just for anti air ops, not counting the Tomahawks, Harpoons, and anti sub/torpedo missiles either.
ECM is as said a likely defense as well, there are some pretty advanced decoy/chaff systems on board USN destroyers, cruisers, and other warships as well. So, quite a lot of potential ways the missiles could have been defeated, just glad they were. Considering these missiles were pretty successful in striking the recent HSV2 ship, obviously they were stopped by some form of USN defenses, be it passive ECM/decoys or an actual missile/Ciws deal.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: zack1234 on October 11, 2016, 12:10:10 AM
Was this on the news?
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: GScholz on October 11, 2016, 06:24:43 AM
Diving into the sea is the typical method of self destruction for a sea skimmer. My guess is that the rebels were too inept to program a correct search and attack profile into the missiles. They ran their search patterns and self destructed when they didn't find a viable target. Never underestimate the ineptness of these people when operating advanced equipment.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: jollyFE on October 11, 2016, 08:26:19 AM
these guys have advisors down there from our "Friends" in Iran. They are looking for another choke point.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: Nilsen on October 11, 2016, 12:47:08 PM
Im thinking its operator error or faulty missiles.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: jollyFE on October 11, 2016, 02:42:57 PM
could be ecm too
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: Zimme83 on October 11, 2016, 03:23:22 PM
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: Gman on October 11, 2016, 04:01:42 PM
They were competent enough to hit the HSV2. It's possible they could have screwed up their launches vs the Mason, but I wouldn't assume that based on their successful attack on one ship already. Looks like the Mason fired SM2s and ESSMs, plus used one of their missile decoy systems - so pretty much all the above from last post, I doubt we'll ever know if they intercepted the incoming missiles or if they splashed themselves due to operator error, but the threat was real enough for the USN to launch weapons and deploy decoys.
Interesting the firing of both SM2 and ESSM. This would make me tend to think that the incoming missiles, or at least one of them, got inside the SM2 range gate for optimal intercept and that the ESSM which is more optimal for some shorter range intercepts was fired.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: Randy1 on October 11, 2016, 04:06:29 PM
Good thing we paid them all that money so they can new cruise missiles.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 11, 2016, 04:15:10 PM
I'm surprised we didn't immediately retaliate with some naval gunfire on the launching positions.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: Nilsen on October 11, 2016, 04:19:40 PM
Interesting. I would think the Mason has some sort of recordings or automated log of the missile tracks and whatnot so they prolly know already what if any of the missiles hit. Would be great if any of them actually worked as intended in real life situation.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: jollyFE on October 11, 2016, 04:55:34 PM
they probably couldn't pinpoint the exact location of launch or weren't allowed to shoot back.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: Meatwad on October 11, 2016, 05:51:02 PM
A B-52 would cover that area nicely
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: DaveBB on October 11, 2016, 06:39:13 PM
Lets just state the objective facts about the weapons systems involved in this incident. Keep that other mumbo jumbo out.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: Gman on October 11, 2016, 06:41:36 PM
The incoming missiles had to have been close enough to represent a threat, ie their tracks pointing close towards USS Mason in order for them to release weapons x3 + decoys and likely ECM, over at We Are The Mighty one article has statements from USN people saying the incoming missiles weren't struck by the SM2/ESSMs, but the incoming missiles were defeated by other methods, ie ECM/decoys primarily and splashed before the USN missiles could intercept.
I wonder what the ROE are in the area, I would think they would be tracking the incoming missiles from their own radar systems on Mason, plus all the other ISR/sat assets the US has in the area, right from their launching point, and as AckAck said, why weren't there counter battery missions launched to stop any further potential threats/launches? Maybe there were and we just haven't heard about it, it would seem to be a pretty sound tactic to flatten the launch area/launchers to a: stop any more immediate potential launches, but also b: to take out those responsible, and remove some trained/experienced crew threats from the board as well.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: EskimoJoe on October 11, 2016, 11:37:12 PM
The incoming missiles had to have been close enough to represent a threat, ie their tracks pointing close towards USS Mason in order for them to release weapons x3 + decoys and likely ECM, over at We Are The Mighty one article has statements from USN people saying the incoming missiles weren't struck by the SM2/ESSMs, but the incoming missiles were defeated by other methods, ie ECM/decoys primarily and splashed before the USN missiles could intercept.
I wonder what the ROE are in the area, I would think they would be tracking the incoming missiles from their own radar systems on Mason, plus all the other ISR/sat assets the US has in the area, right from their launching point, and as AckAck said, why weren't there counter battery missions launched to stop any further potential threats/launches? Maybe there were and we just haven't heard about it, it would seem to be a pretty sound tactic to flatten the launch area/launchers to a: stop any more immediate potential launches, but also b: to take out those responsible, and remove some trained/experienced crew threats from the board as well.
It's all about civilian considerations in the modern battlefield. If there was any remote chance that even a single goat herder could have been nearby the point of origin, they probably couldn't just launch a counter-battery. They would likely need 1) positive ID with eyes on an actual target and 2) an actual target. It's likely that they couldn't get that in time to launch a counter-battery. Plus, it's navy. They've been in the news in a bad light recently already, and I'm sure they didn't want to 'start' another international incident.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: Zimme83 on October 12, 2016, 12:30:18 AM
Launcher is truck mounted, there will not be anything left to shoot at by the time you have figured out the launch position.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: zack1234 on October 12, 2016, 01:28:01 AM
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: Serenity on October 13, 2016, 07:39:59 AM
Rounds DID go back the other way. No details, but apparently a good friend of mine was there, and I quote "Don't worry, we hit 'em back good!"
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: Zimme83 on October 13, 2016, 10:02:44 AM
5 or more Tomahawks were fired against 3 Yemeni radar sites, all reported destroyed.
Edit: seems like the radar sites were already out of action prior to the attack. Reports claims that they have already been bombed by the Saudis.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: flyndung on October 13, 2016, 02:24:10 PM
i heard they was shot down by anti-missile missiles RIM-162
new news
According to the United States Naval Institute’s blog, the Mason fired three missiles, two RIM-66 Standard SM-2 missiles and a single RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile, during the engagement north of the Bab el Mandab. The destroyer was escorting US Ponce (ASFB(I)-15) at the time of the attack and also used a Nulka decoy during the engagement. This marks the first use of the RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile in combat, and the first time the SM-2 was used for its intended purpose of air defense.
I read they got some boats headed that way. Maybe for tea? :uhoh but we don't drink tea. :uhoh
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: zack1234 on October 14, 2016, 02:41:27 AM
See Rule #14
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: Rich46yo on October 14, 2016, 08:58:22 AM
Well I'd like to know if the missiles actually hit anything because this wally mart AShM is about as low end a threat as the USN will go up against AShM-wise and the SM, and especially the ESSM, will have to be able to perform against much more dangerous threats. I'd also like to know if it was two SM-2s or SM-6s.
A good argument for rail guns or Lasers. Both these missiles cost a fortune tho I guess they are cheaper then a new Destroyer.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: FLOOB on October 14, 2016, 11:49:52 AM
I heard Zach got banned.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: Gman on October 15, 2016, 01:02:08 AM
Good Floob, he'll have more time to bake pies then.
Rich is right, the slow Silkworm types are a pretty slow target compared to some of the Mach2/3 plus missiles that are potential threats. Some of them have pretty nasty flight paths too now, coming in from high alt at very high mach numbers, and then attacking from an almost vertical profile once overhead of the ship it is targeting. A combination of those missiles as well as very low altitude sea skimming mach 2/3 missiles presents a very difficult problem for USN defenses to solve. Great articles out recently about this, I'll find them and link them here, interesting reading about just how lethal some of these anti ship missiles have become.
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: zack1234 on October 15, 2016, 04:25:09 AM
:banana:
Title: Re: Did the USS Mason use its Phalanx to shoot down the incoming missiles?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on October 15, 2016, 01:25:08 PM