Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Technical Support => Topic started by: 715 on October 19, 2016, 02:14:31 PM
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I recently added a fresh install of 64 bit Windows 7 to my Win XP / Ubuntu dual boot system on a separate SSD. I did this because while AH3 works fine on 32 bit Windows XP, it does show some annoying graphical anomalies. Specifically, it can't handle all the trees and as you increase the range for rendering trees some of the ones in the foreground disappear. I suspect a resource issue. So I installed 64 bit Windows 7 Home Premium and it works fine; it actually gives a bit higher frame rate (DX9 version) and doesn't have the resource limitation problem with trees.
However, one thing is really annoying me: the Variance in Delay plot has a 1 second burp that appears like clockwork exactly every 70 seconds (see attached image). The burp is real as planes warp during that 1 second. The hardware is identical and the Windows 7 install is absolutely clean. Only AH3 and PingPlotter have been installed. I haven't even updated Windows 7 from the DVD install state (putting off dealing with the new "who knows what's in it" roll-up patches). The burp does not show up in Windows XP, so it has to have something to do with Windows 7, not with my router or Internet connection (or AH).
Does anyone have any ideas? Things I've tried that had no effect: turning off power management for the WiFi interface card and trying to update the cards drivers (said was newest version available) and turning off SuperFetch (which should not have been enabled in the install as it's an SSD). Note, Windows Update is off (well it's set for Off, but the process still runs because... who knows).
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Win7 with or without SP1?
Another question: Have you installed the dedicated motherboard drivers or are you using the generic ones provided by the Win7 installation?
Third thought: WiFi is half duplex whereas a wired connection is full duplex. In layman's terms, whenever an error occurs, WiFi will wait until the entire batch has arrived until it reports of a missing bit while the wired LAN will do it immediately.
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This is the "petite freeze"/micro stuttering/screen freeze issue that most are talking about.
Every 70 seconds....worst than most.
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Win7 with or without SP1?
Another question: Have you installed the dedicated motherboard drivers or are you using the generic ones provided by the Win7 installation?
Third thought: WiFi is half duplex whereas a wired connection is full duplex. In layman's terms, whenever an error occurs, WiFi will wait until the entire batch has arrived until it reports of a missing bit while the wired LAN will do it immediately.
Thanks for your response. With SP1 (but no subsequent updates). I'm pretty sure I did install the motherboard drivers, the install file is there and so is an Intel directory. Regarding your Third thought: I don't get the burp under Windows XP and that is with the same hardware, i.e. the same WiFi connection.
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This is the "petite freeze"/micro stuttering/screen freeze issue that most are talking about.
Every 70 seconds....worst than most.
Really? I had just assumed that was something different. Do other people's Variance plots look like mine? Also, since it doesn't occur for me for AH3 under Windows XP I assumed it wasn't an AH3 problem.
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Yes, but there were a lot of problems, early on, with the network stack in Windows 7. You really do need to do the updates.
Just be mindful of the ones which you do not want: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,71591.msg4998528.html#msg4998528
Dobs, not everyone has the stutter issues. This is what makes it very difficult to isolate. We have been able to reproduce 1 stutter on two different systems since we have been trying. Just one on each.
Please do not assume they are all the same. We already know they are not.
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Gotcha..spike in variance is common to all.
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Gotcha..spike in variance is common to all.
Any type of pause in the game will normally spike the Variance line, but there are many other reasons it will spike as well, and the causes of any given stutter can be quite numerous. Makes it a bugger to figure out, especially when we cannot readily reproduce it.
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Just be mindful of the ones which you do not want: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,71591.msg4998528.html#msg4998528
This may be made more difficult now that Microsoft has adopted the new rollup strategy for Windows 7/8?
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This may be made more difficult now that Microsoft has adopted the new rollup strategy for Windows 7/8?
Have they gotten rid of the individual updates? I have not updated mine in the last couple of months.
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You may be able to search updates for a single, but the implication of their announcement was that updates would be simplified to a single monthly rollup or "Convenience Update". There is still a lot of confusion on what that means.
InfoWorld indicates that at least. the .net stuff will be individual updates into the future.
http://www.infoworld.com/article/3128983/microsoft-windows/how-to-prepare-for-the-windows-781-patchocalypse.html
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Yes, but there were a lot of problems, early on, with the network stack in Windows 7. You really do need to do the updates.
Well, that didn't work. When I turn on Windows Update it starts looking for updates but doesn't actually do anything: no disk access no network access, just pegs one CPU at 100%. Let it run like that for 2 hours... nothing. What do you do when your Windows Update is broken? You can't "update" it. ;) (And this is a fresh off the DVD install... amazing.)
Edit: should have checked Google first... MS has a KB patch that fixes it. Oh goodie.. 176 updates. However, none of the ones Skuzzy lists were in there.
And yes, the recent update on my wifes Windows 8.1 laptop had all the Windows stuff rolled up into one update- no choice, no info. I think only Adobe Flash and maybe a .NET update were separate.
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Well, 176 updates, several hours, and 4 reboots later I still get the Variance burps. And, just for good measure, the Windows Update service is back to using 100% of a CPU while doing nothing, despite the patch.
Note my problem is network connection only- while the burps cause planes to warp, they do not cause stutters in the graphical output.
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The long delay for updates is back, and has been for a while.
I just tried duplicating your 'burp' on my home system, without success. The Variance line stayed flat as a pancake for an hour.
Differences in my home system and yours (from what I can tell), I am not on Wifi, and I am not running an SSD. I have 36 background processes running (with nothing running). My CPU usage never changes from 0%, but there is clear 4 of the 8 cores are active (two more than the other two). It is just such small activity it does not register.
Any chance you could hardwire your Internet connection, just as test?
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I get them too. Not as often though. About once every 10 minutes or so.
Can be flying along @ steady 60 fps, then a 1/2 second hiccup, frame rate drops to 32 then pops right back to 60. Check net status right after and see the same variance spike pictured.
Also running Windows 7 64
Hard wired Ethernet
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The 1/2 to 1 (or longer) second freeze (entire game stops) is different from the warp stutters 715 is describing.
We have a generic idea of what might be causing the entire freezes, but it is going to be a bugger to track down.
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The 1/2 to 1 (or longer) second freeze (entire game stops) is different from the warp stutters 715 is describing.
We have a generic idea of what might be causing the entire freezes, but it is going to be a bugger to track down.
(https://i.imgur.com/dr9fmmW.jpg)
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No chance to try a direct hardwire connection: the router is too far away. Also, the same hardware with the same WiFi connection does not show the burps with Win XP.
I guess I'll just have to live with it.
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Logically, if the same hardware acts differently when running a different operating system, it should be concluded something is different in the way the OS is handling the hardware. I think that is sound logic.
The fact it is happening in fixed time intervals should allow a chance to catch whatever it is that is doing it. It could be a process firing off. It could have to do with some type of file system update (cache being dumped).
It is something unique to your configuration as I cannot make this happen on any of the other Windows 7 systems we have around, but we are lacking two things your system has. SSD and Wifi connection.
Let me study this some more.
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I think all versions of Windows collects statistics on applications we use. Could that have something to do with the petit freeze? and if so, how do we disable it for AH3?
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I think all versions of Windows collects statistics on applications we use. Could that have something to do with the petit freeze? and if so, how do we disable it for AH3?
There was an update for Windows 7 which provided telemetry data comparable to what Windows 10 is providing to Microsoft. I caught it it early on, but when it was installed the one day, I was losing up to 15% of my CPU processing to it and it seemed to run regardless of what you were doing on the computer.
If Microsoft has indeed bundled that into a single patch with other security updates, there is not much anyone can do. Look through the services list and see what is enabled on your computer. See if there is anything using the word "telemetry" either in the name or the description.
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The long delay for updates is back, and has been for a while.
I think that's something different. In my case the Windows Update service is broken. It's a well known bug and there have been several KB patches to try to fix it. I believe the Windows Update Service code gets stuck in essentially an infinite loop trying to calculate dependencies between updates installed etc. It pegs a single CPU at 100% forever. I let it run 16 hours and it didn't nothing. I'll have to research other ways to fix it.
Regarding the burp issue I'm going to use Process Monitor to try to find something that runs on a periodic 70 second cycle. I'll also try turning off indexing on the SSD (something I normally do anyway but forgot) and I'll look for processes referring to "Telemetry" per your suggestion.
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Can you run the game from a hard drive? Just as an experiment.
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Can you run the game from a hard drive? Just as an experiment.
I can probably try that, after all AH3 is already installed on the Win XP hard drive which is accessible from the Win 7 boot. Tried it and while there were lots of AH errors about not being able to open files in the settings folder (probably pointing in the wrong spot due to drive letter changes) I did get online and the burps were still there.
However, I think I may have figured out my problem: there are no Win 7 64 bit drivers for my Linksys WiFi PCI card. I'm lucky that the drivers from the CD work at all in Win 7 64-bit. I think I've limited the likely cause to the WiFi card drivers as I tried stopping every service that wouldn't break the computer, one at a time, and none of them were causing the burps. My last hope is to turn on Windows 7 Update for drivers and see if Microsoft has a better driver for my Ralink based WiFi card.
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Sorry to have sent you on a wild goose chase. :(
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Problem solved! I was able to get Windows Update to download optional drivers for the WiFi card. I installed them and the burps are gone!
Thanks everyone for all the suggestions and help.
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Problem solved! I was able to get Windows Update to download optional drivers for the WiFi card. I installed them and the burps are gone!
Thanks everyone for all the suggestions and help.
Glad you got it sorted out!
:aok
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Good to know.