Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Gman on October 25, 2016, 05:22:56 PM
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Great article here from Tyler Rogoway, formerly ran the Foxtrot Alpha site, but left due to seeing the writing on the wall vis a vis Hulk Hogan and Jalopnik (Tyler had actually had his own great site which Jalopnik acquired, and now he's moved on to this site which is great for car/military geeks).
Eagl had posted before regarding this fighter, and many of his conclusions look to be accurate, the J20 is a long range interceptor more than a fighter or bomber most likely. Anyhow, good article with a bit of video of it flying, and we should have some great footage soon from the upcoming airshow in China where 2 of them will debut. This is just 1 of 4 new Stealth aircraft the Chinese have cooking, their 2 engine F35 analogue looks interesting as well. It's too long to cut/paste.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/5606/chinas-j-20-stealth-fighter-will-likely-look-like-this-at-its-air-show-debut
It's impressive how far the Chinese have come and how fast they've done it regarding their military - regardless of how, cough, (hacking/theft/espionage/copying/etc). From a country where the Mig21/23 were front line at the turn of this last century, and the Su27 copies were VERY high end tech, to constructing their own L/O fighters (4 of them coming including the J20)...not to mention the leaps their navy has made too.
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Have the Chinese fixed their engine problems?
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Critical point, and the answer based on all the defense dailies there are to read is "no". Their engines are based on what they've learned from the Russian engines they've copied, no secret to anyone I suppose, but since the Russian motors in most of their fighters still have their own problems, it's hardly surprising that Chinese copies end up being even more problematic.
I linked an article here last year regarding the SU30 fleet that India flies, and at the time it was written over 1/2 their fleet, 55% it was, were sitting with motors ripped out of airframes or just plain broken and not working, as the Russians were being extremely slow in actioning repair and replacement requests. Either due to politics, incompetency, or possibly both, hah (IMO). Hundreds of SU30 fighters on a daily basis at the end of 2015 were unable to fly due to engine related problems.
This is one area where the USA and the West is still well ahead of Russia and China, the reliability and performance of their jet fighter motors. As the article stated as well, the Chinese avionics leave something to be desired too, and they are a long way off from sensor fusion or any of the new whizzy things that make US/NATO pilots have a lightened workload while increasing lethality simultaneously.
Still, considering what the J20's likely mission will be, and that they are likely to be semi-disposable based on Chinese doctrine, I think engine reliability won't be as cripling a problem as it would be for other air forces. Going to on long range patrol/loiter or point defense attack missions to go after Western C3/ISR heavy platforms at high speed with a somewhat low observable platform is what the J20 will be all about, and despite their 'advanced' construction, they'll likely die by the numbers trying to close with these assets and kill them. I don't think China can expect that trying to get within range of AWACS, tanker assets, and the intel birds will be a cheap mission by any stretch. This is also why the new long range variants of AAMs like the Meteor, new Amraam version, and the Russian/Chinese very long range missiles are such an important facet of the future air war in the South China sea and the rest of the Pacific theater.
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We have got to start changing our passwords on our military computers...
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Looks like they took a Eurofighter, streched it a bit in the middle and tried to make it 'look stealthy' without really thinking about it. I'll bet that thing lights up quite well on most radars. Perhaps not as much as a Flanker, but it sure wont look like a bird.
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Still, considering what the J20's likely mission will be, and that they are likely to be semi-disposable based on Chinese doctrine, I think engine reliability won't be as cripling a problem as it would be for other air forces. Going to on long range patrol/loiter or point defense attack missions to go after Western C3/ISR heavy platforms at high speed with a somewhat low observable platform is what the J20 will be all about, and despite their 'advanced' construction, they'll likely die by the numbers trying to close with these assets and kill them. I don't think China can expect that trying to get within range of AWACS, tanker assets, and the intel birds will be a cheap mission by any stretch.
This is the key. Due to the different ideologies between the East and West, our defences need to work 100% of the time. We won't accept the loss of aircraft. Their interceptors only have to work once. The losses on the way don't bother them as much...
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This is the key. Due to the different ideologies between the East and West, our defences need to work 100% of the time. We won't accept the loss of aircraft. Their interceptors only have to work once. The losses on the way don't bother them as much...
"When he's got five aircraft to our one...well...you all passed math."
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Frontal aspect stealth would do more than enough, They dont plan to use them to penetrate deep into enemy territory. And to meet F-22:s and F-35 it will be enough with frontal aspect stealth since most of the time all enemy radars will be in front of them. Sending J-20:s after Awacs and tankers can be a real game changer in a hypothetical conflict. Even if the J-20 isnt as good as the F-22 there will not be enough F-22 to stop them so it really doesnt matter.
The Chinese aircraft industry have a bit to go before they are fully capable of designing and building fighters from scratch but they are quick to learn.
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http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/f-15-silent-eagle-may-get-a-reprieve-as-israel-requests-1740179374 (http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/f-15-silent-eagle-may-get-a-reprieve-as-israel-requests-1740179374)
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http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/f-15-silent-eagle-may-get-a-reprieve-as-israel-requests-1740179374 (http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/f-15-silent-eagle-may-get-a-reprieve-as-israel-requests-1740179374)
Ancient news. I don't think it is going to pan out, unfortunately. :(
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They just copy someone else's, It's somewhere between 10-30:1 more cost effective and at least 10 times quicker.
The Chinese aircraft industry have a bit to go before they are fully capable of designing and building fighters from scratch but they are quick to learn.
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I think there are tendency to underestimate China. Finally they have big aircraft industry, they produce virtually every product around, they have an experience in designing their own aircraft, so why wouldn't they be able to design and produce stealthy aircraft... Maybe it wouldn't be F22 but you don't need one...
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I think there are tendency to underestimate China. Finally they have big aircraft industry, they produce virtually every product around, they have an experience in designing their own aircraft, so why wouldn't they be able to design and produce stealthy aircraft... Maybe it wouldn't be F22 but you don't need one...
There is also a tendency to over-estimate China.
ack-ack
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There is also a tendency to over-estimate China.
ack-ack
Well how else do you get huge increases in defense budgets? Its not like DOD can come out and say this airplane is in its earliest test phase and has a long road ahead of it before it even becomes operational. End then who knows how it will perform?
It seems like everyone else is always "working" on stealth fighters" but only America can actually produce fleets of them and put squadrons into operational service. But now of course USAF is dangling its 4'th Gen, a fighter to augment and then replace F-22, so you have to have an enemy to justify doing so.
And we should because from what I can see and read only strength and capability can keep peace and prevent another world wide holocaust. Its either that or dissapear from Asia for good.
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When a J20 intercepts one of our P-8s, and Serenity goes to dogfight it in his F-35C, we will see how well it flies.
"You'll meet your maker in a Martin-Baker!"
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When a J20 intercepts one of our P-8s, and Serenity goes to dogfight it in his F-35C, we will see how well it flies.
"You'll meet your maker in a Martin-Baker!"
I'm staying the hell away from the 35 lol. It's actually not being an option. But I MAY be the Growler making it impossible for that J20 to find the P-8 to begin with...
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Have the Chinese fixed their engine problems?
lol no
That's why their air force is buying SU 35 just for the engine and avionics