General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Beefcake on October 31, 2016, 08:28:24 PM
Title: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: Beefcake on October 31, 2016, 08:28:24 PM
Hello everyone......where to begin with this wish....I love the B25, it's by far my favorite aircraft in AH. However, I don't fly it that often because it's so hard to defend against enemy fighters with it's rather weak defense armament.
I'd like to request that the Bendix Lower Turret be added to the B25C as one of this gun packages giving it much needed lower rear defense. The trade off for better defense is that the extended turret costs the aircraft about 20-30 mph in speed due to drag.
I know that the Bendix Lower Turret was pretty much omitted once the B25C came into production do to some problems like mechanical failures (Jamming, failure to extend or lower) as well as gunners having a hard time aiming and even in some accounts getting sick while trying to use it. However, though these problems caused the failure of the turret in real life, none of these problems exist in aces high so I feel it would be a candidate for addition.
Likewise many B25s transferred to the Royal Air Force still had the turrets installed and they used them to success mainly subverting the problems by leaving the turrets extended all the time rather than retracting them for landings and takeoffs.
I'd like HTC to consider this on the grounds similar to the I-16. IIRC this aircraft is a mix of several designs with several different gun package models all folded into one aircraft. Whereas couldn't the same thing be done to the B25C even though the lower turret was more of an early B25B design?
The other reason why I request this and not the B25J is that I'm wondering would just adding the turret be less work than having to build a new aircraft? (Although I'd love the B25J)
Thanks for those photos, I don't think I've ever seen them.
- oldman
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 01, 2016, 02:57:17 PM
The B-25C should have the lower Bendix turret, even though in most cases the lower turret was removed in the field. Does our B-25C have wing racks for bombs as well? The B-25C was produced with wing racks that allowed it to carry an additional six to eight bombs on the wings (100 to 325 pound bombs). B-25C also had provisions to carry a small torpedo.
I also noticed that the B-25C is listed in AH being able to carry 670 gallons of fuel internally, though the B-25C (starting with serial number 41-12817) changes were made so an additional 304 US gallons of fuel could be carried in auxiliary cells in the outer wing panels. This gave the B-25C an internal fuel load of 974 gallons.
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: Zimme83 on November 01, 2016, 03:23:30 PM
It have been discussed before,the turret was aimed through mirrors and were pretty much useless since it was more or less impossible to hit anything.
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: Beefcake on November 01, 2016, 03:49:47 PM
It have been discussed before,the turret was aimed through mirrors and were pretty much useless since it was more or less impossible to hit anything.
Yeah but I doubt HTC would try an script a super complicated aiming system. I envision if HTC adds it just putting the aiming point of reference where the periscope sits in the turret. This way you don't have design an interior shot you just make it look similar to aiming though the bomb site.
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 01, 2016, 04:49:51 PM
This looks like a B25H with a turret on it. (http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/images/B/-/B-25_Mitchell__under_full.jpg)
That is most likely a B-25G, not a B-25H. A number of B-25Cs were converted to B-25Gs on the production line and retained the lower Bendix Turret but like the crews did on the B-25C, the lower turret was usually also removed on the converted B-25Gs and later removed from production starting with serial number 42-65001.
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: Zimme83 on November 01, 2016, 05:26:09 PM
Quote
"The worst thing ever designed was the bottom turret of the B-25. It was the stupidest bit of equipment. My God, the operator is sitting in one place getting a reverse image through a mirror. He couldn't hit a thing. It slowed the damn plane down, and we weren't getting belly attacks anyway. What they really needed was a tail gun, which they eventually installed."
http://acepilots.com/planes/b25.html
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: Beefcake on November 01, 2016, 05:48:27 PM
Once again you're bringing up things that yes screwed the turret IRL but IMO wouldn't have an effect in Aces High. In your statement it says "not getting belly attacks" but you obviously don't fly the plane in the MA as that's what most people do and you have no defense against it. HTC doesn't tend to over complicate things and in planes / vehicles they've added/changed things to make systems work that I thought they wouldn't. This IMO wouldn't be that hard to do and it wouldn't need mirrors and other things, just put the gunsite at the end of the lower periscope and boom you have it.
Once again I'm wishing this because the turret sucked in real life, but in AH3 the turret could actually help the aircraft. I suffered 12 hours of hell in this thing during Tunisia, half of the time being shot down being unable to return fire due to pilots attacking from the belly position, the very thing you want to quote as why the turret shouldn't be added.
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: bustr on November 01, 2016, 06:04:47 PM
This film about a Tunisia B25C group shows ventral bendix turrets. Now I gotta dig up a manual for the lower turret sighting system and see what the reticle looks like.
It used one of two types of reticle.
1. - reference circle and dot. 2. - cross hairs.
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: Beefcake on November 01, 2016, 06:23:21 PM
Not only can you see the turret bulges but you can even see in one clip you can see the wing bomb racks.
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 01, 2016, 06:52:33 PM
Once again you're bringing up things that yes screwed the turret IRL but IMO wouldn't have an effect in Aces High. In your statement it says "not getting belly attacks" but you obviously don't fly the plane in the MA as that's what most people do and you have no defense against it. HTC doesn't tend to over complicate things and in planes / vehicles they've added/changed things to make systems work that I thought they wouldn't. This IMO wouldn't be that hard to do and it wouldn't need mirrors and other things, just put the gunsite at the end of the lower periscope and boom you have it.
Once again I'm wishing this because the turret sucked in real life, but in AH3 the turret could actually help the aircraft. I suffered 12 hours of hell in this thing during Tunisia, half of the time being shot down being unable to return fire due to pilots attacking from the belly position, the very thing you want to quote as why the turret shouldn't be added.
You would still have the issues of 1) only being able to look trough the gun sight. (making it hard to find the attacking aircraft in time) and 2) Having a mirrored image. (making aiming very difficult since mouse movements will be backwards). The mirrored image should be modeled if the turret is added since its a very significant feature of the turret.
But belly turret or not, it would not improve the survivability of the B-25 in any significant way...
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: nrshida on November 02, 2016, 10:59:30 AM
2) Having a mirrored image. (making aiming very difficult since mouse movements will be backwards). The mirrored image should be modeled if the turret is added since its a very significant feature of the turret.
Surely that depends on the number of mirrors, or more likely, prisms no?
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: bustr on November 02, 2016, 03:12:22 PM
It's probably modeled on the similar twin mirror periscopic sight used in the Blenhiem for the lower rear facing turret to protect the tail. The gunner received a correct image of the approaching fighter. His FOV was very restricted. The RAF units which used the B25 found that formation flying made the ventral bendix turret effective in spite of the aiming problems.
The gunner aim view would be something like our F6 bombardier view with either a black cross hair or a black 35Mil and dot ring for the aim point. The periscopic tube was not illuminated.
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: nrshida on November 03, 2016, 12:26:17 AM
It's probably modeled on the similar twin mirror periscopic sight used in the Blenhiem for the lower rear facing turret to protect the tail. The gunner received a correct image of the approaching fighter.
Zimme83 please refer to your own signature :rofl
In AH don't the unmanned guns track with the manned ones? That might mitigate the FOV issue to some extent.
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: guncrasher on November 03, 2016, 12:50:56 AM
nrshida guns will shoot at whatever you are pointing. so if you are in the tail gun you lower it as far as it will go and it wont shoot at a plane that is underneath you. where as the ball turret of a b17 will do and the other guns will join if they can aim at the same point.
semp
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: nrshida on November 03, 2016, 01:52:54 AM
nrshida guns will shoot at whatever you are pointing. so if you are in the tail gun you lower it as far as it will go and it wont shoot at a plane that is underneath you. where as the ball turret of a b17 will do and the other guns will join if they can aim at the same point.
Aha! Thus the AH version would compensate for the limitations of real life. Not without precedent after all.
+1 Beefcake. Hope you get your wish brah.
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: Zimme83 on November 03, 2016, 03:09:07 AM
It's probably modeled on the similar twin mirror periscopic sight used in the Blenhiem for the lower rear facing turret to protect the tail. The gunner received a correct image of the approaching fighter. His FOV was very restricted. The RAF units which used the B25 found that formation flying made the ventral bendix turret effective in spite of the aiming problems.
The gunner aim view would be something like our F6 bombardier view with either a black cross hair or a black 35Mil and dot ring for the aim point. The periscopic tube was not illuminated.
From what ive read i have got the impression that the image was mirrored but i might have misunderstood that part then. Aiming the turret should have worked something like this: (http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/miduppergunner/underturret2.jpg)
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: bustr on November 03, 2016, 11:39:02 AM
Zimmie,
Do you have any of the Air Ministry periodicals with the expanded service diagram of the Barr&Stroud MKII?
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: Zimme83 on November 03, 2016, 01:41:44 PM
Negative.
Title: Re: Wishing for the Bendix Lower Gun Turret to be added to the B25.
Post by: bustr on November 03, 2016, 06:32:10 PM