General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Chilli on November 06, 2016, 08:12:28 PM
Title: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Chilli on November 06, 2016, 08:12:28 PM
This is not a complaint of any sorts on HTC's service. It is in fact, a confirmation of what we should all know by now the connection woes come with many variables, a lot of them out of HTC's realm even though they try their best to give us advice on curing such problems.
1. I have awesome, smooth game play almost anytime.
2. When there is an issue, it can almost always be found somewhere on my end or that of another player having connection issues.
3. Most relavent area of discussion I intended for this post: My bandwidth is being eaten alive by the horde of internet hungry devices and applications suckling their way onto my home network.
This is me before checking into the game: Opens cellphone and shuts off wifi connection, listens to each door and checks in the office to see who is awake and possibly whipping cyber data bits through known connected computers and laptops, quietly taps on any door and asks are you watching TV (which is no longer TV, but streaming content)...... all seems quiet.... and I attempt to settle in for a few minutes hopefully an hour or more of enjoyment of AH3.
That is when the gremlins appear and I notice flashing lights in the distance somewhere, indicating some device (possibly a toaster) downloading a useless update to sell me margarine. How much of this activity is actually going on, I don't have a clue but I was amazed when I took a look at the number of devices that are attached (suckling) to my home network. :eek:
It is like if I were to open my router and take a close look inside:
"..... Wait!.... The Tablet.... The Tablet!" .... and oh yeah, might have to do with the adult entertainment section in the back... :O
Okay, the actual question: Is it easily feasible to split a single household connection that would limit interference from usage in other areas. Basically, I am just asking for a connection that is stable and not alternating from lightning fast to snail's pace crawl (sorry Lusche) randomly?
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: FESS67 on November 06, 2016, 08:24:37 PM
Hmmm,
Probably not.....I mean sure it is possible, but is it feasible?
QoS settings in your router to favour the game above other content might be a possibility but again how easy and workable is that for all members of the household.
My son plays on his play station, my wife is always looking at real estate images, music is streaming from Spotify or Pandora and I get very very few laggy fights and as you said, that is almost always going to be caused by something between us players and the server rather than something in HTCs control.
If it was ever an issue where I knew it was definitely coming from other users in my house I would make them pay for another connection :)
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Vulcan on November 06, 2016, 08:28:13 PM
Wifi is a contended medium, that is to say all devices using it contend for their share.
Wifi uses radio frequencies used by other devices outside of computing (e.g. cordless phones).
Wifi contends with noise from other devices (e.g. microwave ovens).
You can make wifi better by using systems like Fairnet or WMM to share it more evenly, but that won't account with other devices or noise.
You should avoid using wifi for gaming. Wired is always better. People who say Wifi is just as fast/good as wired should be hung, drawn, and quartered.
If you are on wired it is fairly easy to do bandwidth management and prioritisation on a half decent router/or firewall.
(an example how to do bandwidth management: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUbLf9qJU98 entry level device: https://www.amazon.com/DELL-SonicWALL-SOHO-Firewall-Appliance/dp/B00WT50ZUY/ ) : disclosure note I sell these but not in Amerika :)
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: 715 on November 06, 2016, 11:54:27 PM
I haven't looked into it yet but I'm pretty sure my router allows you to set QoS bandwidth limits by individual device attached (I assume by WiFi or hardwire). It might help to look into your router settings and maybe download and read the manual?
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Dobs on November 07, 2016, 08:59:18 AM
I solved this by the following: ME>HARD WIRED INTO THE ROUTER REST>sucking up the wireless spectrum
You can also limit/prioritize based on what your modem capability is....
Just saying... rest of the house has no idea I have them throttled (but I have 200meg down and a Nighthawk router...and no one seems to have complained yet).
Dobs
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Bizman on November 07, 2016, 10:16:20 AM
^^^^ this.
Plus, unplugging less important devices from WiFi might help. I'm not saying which ones, since I don't know how important the Internet features of, say, your toaster, are.
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Rich46yo on November 07, 2016, 01:34:47 PM
Quote
I solved this by the following: ME>HARD WIRED INTO THE ROUTER REST>sucking up the wireless spectrum
Yepp, Unless someone else wants to pay the cable bill. :neener:
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: 38ruk on November 08, 2016, 12:18:46 PM
First thing i do at night is pull the plug on the wifi router.... Way too many devices hit the router at my place, rather pull the plug or disable the radio. Just beware of wife and kid ack hehe
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Chilli on November 09, 2016, 04:00:03 PM
Vulcan,
Your hardware option is the closest that I have heard to what I wish to do. I have tried some fiddling with QOS before using software and router. The example given in the video (did not view the entire thing 30 mins) that I found exactly related was the BW(something) that not only throttled a connection, but also set it's accuracy in terms of % reliability (wrong term, I know).
My feeling is that if I can find an area where I am running "slow" but steady, the other connections buzzing about on the router would have less of a ping effect. I could be entirely wrong, but that is my aim.
Thanks for all comments..... yes, I do turn into the bandwidth dictator on occasions like squad night or special events. :furious The rest of the time I am aiming at just getting along. :uhoh
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Gman on November 09, 2016, 05:44:34 PM
Depending on what version of Win you're using, check you power settings. If you have power set to anything other than max/performance/gaming/whatever it's called now/etc, you could have problems. I had mine somehow get set to some power saving mode in Win 8 and I had huge lag issues, my net graph showed them clear as day, and it took a while to figure out what the issue was, but it was completely the power setting on its own causing HUGE delays and warps.
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Vulcan on November 09, 2016, 09:52:14 PM
Your hardware option is the closest that I have heard to what I wish to do. I have tried some fiddling with QOS before using software and router.
I hate the use of QoS. QoS is often just tagging and does ZERO for managing bandwidth. Othertimes it is just queue priorities which become useless in saturated environments. A lot of home routers (and even small business gear) only do egrees traffic management (your packets going out, not packets coming from the HTC servers) where what is really needed is both egrees and ingress.
Pro tip for all: you can buy a lot of used enterprise gear on places like ebay cheaper than brand new consumer gear - that equipment will often outperform the latest consumer gear by a long way. Don't be fooled, in some tech you get exactly what you pay for - wifi is a good example - the good wifi chipsets cost a lot of money - there is no avoiding it.
As an example I have a Ruckus Wifi AP (7962, A/B/G/N model). It covers our house really well (2 story, 265 sq m/ 316 sq yards) and overall property (800 sq m / 956 sq yards). That is one AP. It also maintains relatively good transfer rates (lowest I've seen using speedtest.net is 25Mbps at the fringes).
Same goes for the firewalls, I see cheap Sonicwalls on ebay (just use the old models in SPI only mode, don't worry about the licenses features unless you're a firewall freak like me).
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Skuzzy on November 10, 2016, 06:34:14 AM
The best-bang-for-the-buck consumer router, I have found is the MicroTik RB2011 routerboard (https://routerboard.com/RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN).
It is not the easiest router to setup, but it is rich with features and seems to work really well.
I am with Vulcan. I hate QoS. It is a poor bandaid for solving congestion issues.
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Krusty on November 10, 2016, 08:48:38 AM
you should be able to set up quotas for individual devices on the network, no? I think even mid-range consumer devices allow that. I know mine has some options to that effect. Just set a healthy quota for the other devices and set aside your device to get its own quota. AH doesn't require all that much.
Shouldn't that get the desired result without resorting to QoS?
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: BoilerDown on November 10, 2016, 08:48:56 AM
Pro tip for all: you can buy a lot of used enterprise gear on places like ebay cheaper than brand new consumer gear - that equipment will often outperform the latest consumer gear by a long way.
Just check ebay for the hardware and know someone who can get you the right IOS release (a friend in IT with a support contract). You also need to have some networking knowledge, if subnetting scares you, don't do this.
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Vulcan on November 10, 2016, 09:17:10 PM
you should be able to set up quotas for individual devices on the network, no? I think even mid-range consumer devices allow that. I know mine has some options to that effect. Just set a healthy quota for the other devices and set aside your device to get its own quota. AH doesn't require all that much.
Shouldn't that get the desired result without resorting to QoS?
Nope nope nope nope - quotas are more stupid than QoS. Quotas don't address immediate bandwidth sharing or shaping requirements. Basically they don't stop something from hammering the network.
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Chilli on November 11, 2016, 01:19:42 PM
The best-bang-for-the-buck consumer router, I have found is the MicroTik RB2011 routerboard (https://routerboard.com/RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN).
It is not the easiest router to setup, but it is rich with features and seems to work really well.
I am with Vulcan. I hate QoS. It is a poor bandaid for solving congestion issues.
I am down with THIS! To be sure that I am communicating properly my original concerns, I will ask if we are in agreement that something along this line would a) reduce the large ping swing from 47 ms when quiet and then 500 ms when household is streaming and/ or gaming, b) set aside an area of network bandwidth that is optimal for possibly 2 gaming computers and 1 smart TV netflix connections running simultaneously, *c) act as a portal to possibly possibly more than one LAN, and d) important to know if my RF connection from my ISP is even robust enough to do any of what we are describing?
* The in home expert (my daughter) is administrator for home office network. I am very excited about this if it is a peacemaker (that doesn't require live rounds) :aok
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Skuzzy on November 11, 2016, 01:25:50 PM
Each port on that router can be throttled. Setting it all up will take a clear understanding of networking. Like I said, it is not the friendliest router to setup and configure, but once you get it all set, it works really well.
You will want to visit their support forums for help. I have setup four of these routers for various family members so I they would stop pestering me about all the issues they were having with other consumer grade routers.
Before plunking hard earned cash for it, read,...read,...then read some more about it.
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Vulcan on November 12, 2016, 03:21:19 PM
Like I said, it is not the friendliest router to setup and configure
Those cheap old Sonicwalls seem to be < $100 on ebay, they have a nice GUI and can throttle per IP. Just don't try and license them for security services (unlicensed they act as a stateful only firewall). Most are rated for ~ 200Mbps of stateful throughput (firewall not just routing!). I think some of the low end fortigates would be the same too.
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Chilli on November 14, 2016, 02:13:30 PM
So, I am caught between Sonicwall (https://www.amazon.com/DELL-SonicWALL-SOHO-Firewall-Appliance/dp/B00WT50ZUY) and MicroTik RB2011 routerboard (https://routerboard.com/RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN). Working the guru magic of this forums, if I am able to obtain either for approximately the same $$$ I just want to confirm, what would work better for the type of RF ISP connection that I am limited to.
My connection from SignaWave WiFi (Radio Frequency) ISP
(http://nnwifi.com/images/3g_business.jpg)
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Skuzzy on November 14, 2016, 02:58:36 PM
Sonicwall is a no-brainer. Very mature product and with a great user interface.
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Vulcan on November 14, 2016, 02:59:51 PM
Either will do the job.
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: save on November 15, 2016, 02:28:47 AM
Do a number of bandwidth checks on the ISP. I can't say all of them keep their promises ...
Visualroute lite give you an idea if where your milliseconds go, and if you get packet losses. Let it run when playing if you have problems.
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Vulcan on November 15, 2016, 02:59:35 PM
Visualroute lite give you an idea if where your milliseconds go, and if you get packet losses. Let it run when playing if you have problems.
Hah! I've been looking for a tool that I used to use for Unix style/and UDP pings for the last two weeks and couldn't remember its name! Thank you save!
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: MADe on November 23, 2016, 10:17:08 PM
ran into this term looking at something else. Thought maybe it could apply here...................
maybe skuzzy could elaborate if this could apply to AH3 play....................
:salute
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Skuzzy on November 24, 2016, 06:26:25 AM
We hate routers which try to be smarter than we are. It is one of the many things wrong with the Ethernet protocols. There is no "leave this dang packet alone and deliver it the way I am telling you to!" option.
You want to help yourselves? Disable QoS for starters.
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Vulcan on November 24, 2016, 09:53:46 AM
ran into this term looking at something else. Thought maybe it could apply here...................
maybe skuzzy could elaborate if this could apply to AH3 play....................
:salute
Nope. That looks like a bunch of people involved in custom router firmwares, buffer issues would only arise if you are doing to much stuff for the router cpu - ie running their custom firmware with too many features. It's the same old theme in tech, people trying to do stuff on the cheap.
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Pudgie on November 24, 2016, 10:41:28 AM
We hate routers which try to be smarter than we are. It is one of the many things wrong with the Ethernet protocols. There is no "leave this dang packet alone and deliver it the way I am telling you to!" option.
You want to help yourselves? Disable QoS for starters.
Ok, Ok.........I give up.........!
:D
Have turned QoS off in my Nighthawk modem\router now..........
:aok
Also got another phone line rerouted yesterday to get the wife's all-in-one printer, copier, scanner and fax off our dedicated ADSL line as she finally confessed in a roundabout way that she was the culprit who had removed the cheap ADSL line filter from this unit some time back when she couldn't get a fax to go thru listening to somebody else instead of telling me about it. Now all will go thru the Centurylink installed industrial-grade ADSL line separator I had them install some 6 yrs ago in our phone service box so the Nighthawk has unfettered ADSL access to it going forward now.
:salute
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: MADe on November 25, 2016, 10:31:21 PM
We hate routers which try to be smarter than we are. It is one of the many things wrong with the Ethernet protocols. There is no "leave this dang packet alone and deliver it the way I am telling you to!" option.
You want to help yourselves? Disable QoS for starters.
When the KILLER NIC came to market, I was less informed, anyways I learned then that you can do what you want behind your modem but you can do nada to affect the net. That supposed game traffic shaper did no better than anything else.
I am prolly gonna get the Microtik RB2011 as per skuzzy suggestion. ROUTER OS is a software that can be used with it supposedly, as per link. This is why I ask. My home network now has just me and my devices to contend with. For now I only keep 1 machine on at a time, but I have TV's with lan, home sound system and others I would like to integrate into home net and then forget without impinging the game play. Also later when I retire gonna need a roving internet package so..........
I gave up on QoS while ago, such things are for business networks, or systems with multitudes.
Title: Re: Common Cause of Warpy Game Play
Post by: Pudgie on November 26, 2016, 12:46:47 PM
Ok, so if I'm deciphering all this correctly...................
The best layout is to use a dedicated broadband modem w\ a dedicated Ethernet-connected router that can do port service throttling across it's Ethernet LAN ports then use a WAP(s) off the dedicated Ethernet router to bring in all wireless devices so that service can be properly controlled to give it to the devices needing it the most all the time and not the all-in one's.....or at least not the residential-grade all-in-one's if there's such a critter made for business use.
Will keep this in mind for any future setup changes.