Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Max on December 06, 2016, 07:36:11 AM

Title: Bf109-G10
Post by: Max on December 06, 2016, 07:36:11 AM
Didn't we used to have this plane in the game? When did it disappear, and why?

Thanks
Title: Re: Bf109-G10
Post by: Oldman731 on December 06, 2016, 09:44:04 AM
Didn't we used to have this plane in the game? When did it disappear, and why?


We did.  Way back when.  If memory serves, the consensus was that our G10 was a Frankenstein combination of various other airframes and parts, and never actually existed in real life.

- oldman
Title: Re: Bf109-G10
Post by: Max on December 06, 2016, 09:58:02 AM
Wikipedia says that's false; new airframe.
Title: Re: Bf109-G10
Post by: morfiend on December 06, 2016, 10:46:01 AM
Wikipedia says that's false; new airframe.


  While wiki is correct I think what Oldman meant was the ingame G10 wasnt really a G10,it was a K4 with G10 weapons options.

  The real G10 would be about 20 to 30 mph slower and was actually fielded after the K4!


 YMMV.



   :salute
Title: Re: Bf109-G10
Post by: Karnak on December 06, 2016, 11:56:32 AM

  While wiki is correct I think what Oldman meant was the ingame G10 wasnt really a G10,it was a K4 with G10 weapons options.

  The real G10 would be about 20 to 30 mph slower and was actually fielded after the K4!


 YMMV.



   :salute
This is what it was.

We never had an actual Bf109G-10, just a Bf109K-4 that was labeled as a Bf109G-10 so it could look legitimate to have the Bf109G-10's 20mm options.  When aircraft were updated to AH2 standard they cleaned up Frankenstein aircraft such as the "Bf109G-10" and "Spitfire Mk IX".
Title: Re: Bf109-G10
Post by: bustr on December 06, 2016, 11:57:42 AM
I thought it was in production before the K4 to try and combine features of G6\G14 into one production airframe as a stop gap before the K4 went full production. And then the K4 had delays while the G10 kept being produced even for awhile when the K4 started being delivered.
Title: Re: Bf109-G10
Post by: Karnak on December 06, 2016, 12:04:48 PM
Bf109K-4 entered service in October of 1944 and the Bf109G-10 entered service in November of 1944.

What we need for an earlier high altitude Bf109 is either the Bf109G-6/AS or Bf109G-14/AS.
Title: Re: Bf109-G10
Post by: FBKampfer on December 06, 2016, 01:59:53 PM
The G-10 sort of became a limited upgrade for older G models, though it was intended to be a stop gap new model.

Some were made with new air frames, which would be quite similar to the K4 when it finally went into production, some were G-14's finished as G-10's with the new engine, while others were upgraded from old or damaged airframes, featuring the cowl bulges and lacking other aerodynamic refinements of the K4. These later two would be the slower and probably more common versions, though still a fair improvement over the G-14.
Title: Re: Bf109-G10
Post by: Denniss on December 06, 2016, 02:27:23 PM
G-10 was all-new production. Initial G-10 production used airframes originally sheduled to be completed as G-6 or G-14 but never completed as such.
With a DB 605AS or D engine you won't see cowl bulges, same with repaired 109g airframes mated with a 605AS or D (rare but may have happened).
Title: Re: Bf109-G10
Post by: EagleDNY on December 07, 2016, 12:54:20 PM
Bf109K-4 entered service in October of 1944 and the Bf109G-10 entered service in November of 1944.

What we need for an earlier high altitude Bf109 is either the Bf109G-6/AS or Bf109G-14/AS.

^ What he said. 
Title: Re: Bf109-G10
Post by: morfiend on December 07, 2016, 03:56:00 PM
Bf109K-4 entered service in October of 1944 and the Bf109G-10 entered service in November of 1944.

What we need for an earlier high altitude Bf109 is either the Bf109G-6/AS and a Bf109G-14/ASM.


    There I fixed it for you Karnak! :devil




    :salute
Title: Re: Bf109-G10
Post by: FBKampfer on December 08, 2016, 12:15:28 PM
G-10 was all-new production. Initial G-10 production used airframes originally sheduled to be completed as G-6 or G-14 but never completed as such.
With a DB 605AS or D engine you won't see cowl bulges, same with repaired 109g airframes mated with a 605AS or D (rare but may have happened).

Yes and no. Factory made "new" G-10's would be to a similar finish. Some would have landing gear covers, some would not, little things like that.

But many fighters were sent back to factory for repair, and often partially upgraded at the same time, depending on the damage level.
Title: Re: Bf109-G10
Post by: Denniss on December 08, 2016, 04:35:05 PM
Yes and no. Factory made "new" G-10's would be to a similar finish. Some would have landing gear covers, some would not, little things like that.

But many fighters were sent back to factory for repair, and often partially upgraded at the same time, depending on the damage level.
Repaired and partially upgraded yes, Restamped to G-10 no. An example is the G-6/U4 at the Australian War Memorial - started it's life as standard G-6, was then converted to G-6/AS with Erla-canopy and during depot repair it was 'downgraded' to G-6/U4.
Title: Re: Bf109-G10
Post by: Gman on December 23, 2016, 10:13:47 AM
The AH G10 was great, you could fly it with a 20mm, albeit it was a 150 rnds max back then.
Title: Re: Bf109-G10
Post by: Flitze on January 06, 2017, 01:01:13 PM
We never had an actual Bf109G-10, just a Bf109K-4 that was labeled as a Bf109G-10 so it could look legitimate to have the Bf109G-10's 20mm options.

??? The 109G-10 was considerably slower but more manoeuvrable than the K-4. So it was never a K-4 with 20mm gun. Effectively the G-10 wasn't even faster than a G-6 flown by a top 109 pilot when he excercised his wide and fast turns. So what you're trying to tell newcomers here is absolutely wrong !
Title: Re: Bf109-G10
Post by: morfiend on January 06, 2017, 03:14:12 PM
??? The 109G-10 was considerably slower but more manoeuvrable than the K-4. So it was never a K-4 with 20mm gun. Effectively the G-10 wasn't even faster than a G-6 flown by a top 109 pilot when he excercised his wide and fast turns. So what you're trying to tell newcomers here is absolutely wrong !


  You are correct but,back when we had the G10 ingame it wasnt modeled as a G10! It had the performance of the K4 and the weapons options of the G10,so it was neither a G10 or a K4 but more of a hybrid. When HTC remodeled the 109 series planes they removed the 20mm option and the gondie option from the G10 and renamed it the K4.


 So while you are correct so was Karnak!




   :salute
Title: Re: Bf109-G10
Post by: FBKampfer on January 08, 2017, 10:04:29 AM
Interestingly enough though, it wasn't entirely inaccurate. Towards the end of the war, German factories were turning out some frankenstein equipment.

Some K4's were given Mg 151/20's when the MK 108 was unavailable, some G10's were finished with the K4's 605DC engine instead of their own 605D.

I can't provide proof, but I've heard tell that at the very end of things, they were also taking near total loss airframes, and mothballed older models, and jamming them together with new engines to make bastard G-10's.
Title: Re: Bf109-G10
Post by: Serenity on January 09, 2017, 08:34:59 AM
at the very end of things, they were also taking near total loss airframes, and mothballed older models, and jamming them together with new engines to make bastard G-10's.

That's a strategy the USN has adopted wholeheartedly!