Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Technical Support => Topic started by: Condor on December 23, 2016, 12:20:46 PM
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I have A CH HOTAS and use the CH Control Manager Software. I've been using it for at least 8 years with minimal problems (e.g. I had to repair broken toe brake wires). In the last week, on multiple occasions, all three controllers, Fighterstick, throttle, and pedals have stopped working simultaneously (No response to any buttons stick, throttle, or pedal movements.) if I interrupt game play for a few minutes. (In tower or in GV or flight.) If I log out and test them they all seem to work fine and work fine when I log back in again. No rebooting required. I've never had this problems before. Don't know if it's a bug in the game or my computer. Any ideas will be appreciated. :headscratch:
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Not a game bug. We have no control over this type of issue. Given what you are seeing, it sounds like the USB bus is either experiencing a brown out condition which causes endless bus resets to happen taking it away from the game, or something else is interfering.
I would start by removing the game manager and use the stick without it to see if it helps.
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A power issue? Do you use a powered USB hub or have you plugged all the gear to your motherboard? In the latter case, is it still the same motherboard and power supply?
And of course, check the obvious: Go to Device Manager and ensure that allowing Windows to save energy by shutting down the device is unchecked for all USB Root Hubs. Do the same with all HID devices, Mice, Network adapters etc. Then check Control Panel>Power Management to make sure that Best Performance is selected.
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A power issue? Do you use a powered USB hub or have you plugged all the gear to your motherboard? In the latter case, is it still the same motherboard and power supply?
And of course, check the obvious: Go to Device Manager and ensure that allowing Windows to save energy by shutting down the device is unchecked for all USB Root Hubs. Do the same with all HID devices, Mice, Network adapters etc. Then check Control Panel>Power Management to make sure that Best Performance is selected.
Yes, especially if you are running Windows 10, as Microsoft has a nasty habit of reverting your settings back to defaults when they do updates.
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I would start by removing the game manager and use the stick without it to see if it helps.
It won't as the problem isn't with the Control Manager software.
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It won't as the problem isn't with the Control Manager software.
I am pretty sure it won't solve the issue. It is just a process.
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Now to each his\her own.......................... .....
But if you really want to stop all of that from going on w\ your USB HOTAS the only method that I find 100% effective on this is to install a good USB\PCI-E add-in card that uses 12v auxillary power from your PSU then attach your USB HOTAS controllers to this card in their own separate USB slot. So you will need at a minimum a 3-external port USB\PCI-E add-in card w\ either a 4-pin Molex or 15-pin SATA 12v power connector on it and 3-USB 2.0 extension cables (unless your set up will allow your USB HOTAS cables to reach the back of your computer w\o extensions). Most USB\PCI-E add-in cards do not have\use any sort of power saving control, the onboard USB controller has its own driver and is dedicated to controlling your HOTAS and Windows will not set the USB ports\add-in card up for any power control either as the drivers don't call for any of this so your USB HOTAS controllers will get full power all the time w\ unfettered access to the system across the PCI-E bus (depending on which PCI-E slot you install the add-in card into it will either be routed thru the chipset's PCI-E bus or direct to the CPU PCI-E bus (speed-wise it won't matter as both are treated the same).
The only caveat is this will cost you the use of 1 PCI-E slot on your mobo and 1 of your PSU's Molex or SATA 12v connectors.............
I just did this on my box and now after using my CH USB HOTAS w\ this setup I'm kicking myself in the butt for NOT doing this sooner.
Been there, done that now.........this method is hands down THE best way to hook up a USB HOTAS controller setup to a computer to get optimum reliability\performance from them......solves all the issues.
Now I'm using this w\ Win 7 HP SP1 but unless I'm not in the know this method should fix this issue w\ Win 10..............
Just putting this out there if interested.
:salute
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A power issue? Do you use a powered USB hub or have you plugged all the gear to your motherboard? In the latter case, is it still the same motherboard and power supply?
I used a powered USB hub with my XP machine but I have not used it with the "new" machine I built 3 years ago. This is the first time I've had this problem in the 3 years with the new machine. The only changes to the "new" machine were installation of a Soundblaster Z audio card about 8 months ago and upgrade from an HD 6950 o a GTX 1060 two months ago. I suppose it could be a power issue and I need to go back to the powered USB hub but don't understand why it would take 3 years to become a problem. I have an FSP 700W PSU so I doubt its a PSU issue.
And of course, check the obvious: Go to Device Manager and ensure that allowing Windows to save energy by shutting down the device is unchecked for all USB Root Hubs. Do the same with all HID devices, Mice, Network adapters etc. Then check Control Panel>Power Management to make sure that Best Performance is selected.
Checking power management in device manager was not obvious to me (LOL) but all the appropriate boxes were unchecked. Interestingly, although I had best performance in Power Management I found it changed back to balanced. No one else touches this computer so it must be the poltergeist (or Windows acting on it's own). It's noe set back to Best Performance. If the problem persists I will dig out my powered USB hub.
Thanks, Bizman :salute
Not a game bug. We have no control over this type of issue. Given what you are seeing, it sounds like the USB bus is either experiencing a brown out condition which causes endless bus resets to happen taking it away from the game, or something else is interfering.
I would start by removing the game manager and use the stick without it to see if it helps.
Thanks for the suggestion Skuzzy but dropping the control manager software is the last option I will try. It's worked well for years on two machines, I have a number of friends who use it who don't have this problem, and it allows much more flexibility in controller programing than can be done in the game alone. I've never understood why some CH users don't use it, but that's another discussion. :salute
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Now to each his\her own.......................... .....
But if you really want to stop all of that from going on w\ your USB HOTAS the only method that I find 100% effective on this is to install a good USB\PCI-E add-in card that uses 12v auxillary power from your PSU then attach your USB HOTAS controllers to this card in their own separate USB slot. So you will need at a minimum a 3-external port USB\PCI-E add-in card w\ either a 4-pin Molex or 15-pin SATA 12v power connector on it and 3-USB 2.0 extension cables (unless your set up will allow your USB HOTAS cables to reach the back of your computer w\o extensions). Most USB\PCI-E add-in cards do not have\use any sort of power saving control, the onboard USB controller has its own driver and is dedicated to controlling your HOTAS and Windows will not set the USB ports\add-in card up for any power control either as the drivers don't call for any of this so your USB HOTAS controllers will get full power all the time w\ unfettered access to the system across the PCI-E bus (depending on which PCI-E slot you install the add-in card into it will either be routed thru the chipset's PCI-E bus or direct to the CPU PCI-E bus (speed-wise it won't matter as both are treated the same).
Thanks
The only caveat is this will cost you the use of 1 PCI-E slot on your mobo and 1 of your PSU's Molex or SATA 12v connectors.............
I just did this on my box and now after using my CH USB HOTAS w\ this setup I'm kicking myself in the butt for NOT doing this sooner.
Been there, done that now.........this method is hands down THE best way to hook up a USB HOTAS controller setup to a computer to get optimum reliability\performance from them......solves all the issues.
Now I'm using this w\ Win 7 HP SP1 but unless I'm not in the know this method should fix this issue w\ Win 10..............
Just putting this out there if interested.
:salute
Thanks Pudgie,
Sounds like a good solution but all my PCI-E slots are either populated or blocked by other components (e.g. GTX 1060). :salute
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It could be age. A good externally powered USB hub would be a cheap investment.
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I suppose it could be a power issue and I need to go back to the powered USB hub but don't understand why it would take 3 years to become a problem.
As Skuzzy said, it could be age. Or, it can be a creeping failure which is starting to show now. Sometimes even the best gear can fail prematurely. As for your power supply, FSP makes decent ones and 700 W should be enough but not too much. However, there's more than just the PSU in the power chain: Your motherboard takes care of transforming your 12 and 5 volt lines into the smaller voltages used by your processor, memory etc.
Sometimes it can even be sheer luck, good or bad depending on your point of view. I'd call that good luck since you've had no issues for such a long time. Some people seem to have issues with brand new gear without any specific reason to be RMA'd.
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Thanks Pudgie,
Sounds like a good solution but all my PCI-E slots are either populated or blocked by other components (e.g. GTX 1060). :salute
Hi Condor,
Just so you know there are PCI-E 1x slot ribbon extension cables available that are designed to attach to the PCI-E 1x slot located under the graphics card(s) so that this PCI-E 1x slot(s) can be used.....as long as there is an empty case slot for a sound card\USB-to-PCI-E add-in card or any device that uses PCI-E 1x to be mounted in that doesn't have a mobo PCI-E slot that lines up w\ it.
Was thinking bout ordering 1 myself just to test it out to see if they work well enough to not degrade the power\lane signals across it.
FYI.......................... ....
:salute
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As Skuzzy said, it could be age. Or, it can be a creeping failure which is starting to show now. Sometimes even the best gear can fail prematurely. As for your power supply, FSP makes decent ones and 700 W should be enough but not too much. However, there's more than just the PSU in the power chain: Your motherboard takes care of transforming your 12 and 5 volt lines into the smaller voltages used by your processor, memory etc.
Sometimes it can even be sheer luck, good or bad depending on your point of view. I'd call that good luck since you've had no issues for such a long time. Some people seem to have issues with brand new gear without any specific reason to be RMA'd.
I hope your wrong. My old XP machine went for almost 8 yrs. Then one day it just wouldn't post. Decided rather that try to figure out what was wrong, I decided to build the win 7 machine I have now. I think of 3 years as young. Don't think of it as a "long time".
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I share your hopes.
For clarification, I didn't exactly mean your computer would be old as outdated or obsolete. Prematurely aged might be the best description. There's several reasons why that could happen, starting from poor electronic components in the parts. A very common reason is excess heat. You see, every component has a life span during which it will slowly wear out. For capacitors which are a very common component the life span can be doubled or halved depending on the surrounding temperature. If your computer case is constantly 10 degrees warmer than the average, your caps will die in half the time. There's no layman's "normal" temperatures as far as I know, but if you can drop the case temperature by 5 degrees or more with a single fan or by placing your computer to a more open place that might indicate something. As a rule of thumb the case shouldn't feel warm if you touch it.
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Thanks for the info. Didn't know that capacitors were so heat sensitive. Fortunately I have a large positive pressure Raven case with three 180mm fans at the bottom blowing up and a 120mm fan at the top. The case never feels warm. Aditionally there is a 120mm fan on the Kool master CPU cooler. I'm not bothered by fan noise so I run then all at top speed. I also bought the 2 fan version of the GTX 1060. I think I'm in pretty good shape with respect to heat.
.
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Your ventilation sounds like it should be!
[hijack] For those who'd like to get their computers cooled but are worrying about it getting too noisy: If you want a cool, silent rig, get the biggest fans your case can take. Also, get as many of them as there's places. Logically, the more fans you have the better airflow you get. Seemingly illogically the more and bigger fans you have the quieter your system can get!
Now you might wonder how that can be possible. The explanation is simple: Fans make noise in several ways, all of which are related to rotating speed. The most obvious is the noise of bearings. The second obvious is the whoosh caused by airflow - it gets worse if the fan grille has only small round holes instead of a hexagonal mesh. The third is the sound of the fan blades slicing air.
For a desired airflow big fans need to rotate much slower than small ones, so the rotation related sound levels diminish, even below an audible level. Even at full speed big fans aren't causing too much noise as Condor can confirm.
As for the amount, sound level math is somewhat different. The sound level doesn't add linearly by every new fan. If you have an inaudible 15 dB fan, doubling that won't give you a 30 dB whoosh not to mention that three fans would make a 45 dB tornado. Highly simplified, duplicating the existing amount of fans using similar ones will add some 3 dB. So 2*15=18, 2*20=23 etc. in a very inaccurate way of calculating. [/hijack]
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3dB, though, is double the noise level.
It's not just about the number of fans, though. The primary consideration is volume of flow. You can run your case pressure as positive, neutral, or negative, as long as you have adequate exhaust to prevent heat buildup. If exhaust temperatures rise just a few degrees C, then you doing very well. If your exhaust temperatures are hot to the touch, then you should increase exhaust flow through rpm, or additional exhaust area.
Usually, if the number if intake fans is the equal of exhaust fans, and you have the fan orientation correct, then you should be fine. I have been using a front panel fan controller for years now and usually run the intake fans at a higher rpm than the exhaust fans, but I also have Scythe fans on the hard drive mounts to make sure there is adequate flow there, too.
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3dB, though, is double the noise level.
That's what I remember reading, too.
What I meant to say, a duplicate or triplicate whisper doesn't equal to a yell.
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Yes, with three 180mm and one 120mm case fan running at the highest setting plus the CPU cooler, PSU and video card fans the sound is noticeable but no objectioal. The sound is not noticeable at all during game play. Thanks for the high jack. It's always nice to learn.