Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hristo on January 25, 2000, 01:57:00 AM
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Here are Tour 1 K/D ratios (as of Jan 25th, 8.30 GMT+1). The sample is still very small, except for cannon Hog, whose number of kills is already greater than it used to be for whole beta tour for Macchi.
Plane K/D
F4u-1C 2.28 !!
Fw 190A-8 1.20
George 0.92
Spit IX 0.91
109G-6 0.86
P 51D 0.82
La 5FN 0.72
C 205 0.70
109F-4 0.65*
F4U-1D 0.63
109G-10 0.61
109G-2 0.38*
* means that the plane has very few kills and deaths, so K/D might be off quite a bit after few days.
Your thoughts, plase (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Here are mine.
Cannon Hog kills everything in the arena. Either everyone who understands of lethality has moved to it, or it really disbalances the arena (700+ kills, compared to miserable 50+ kills of 109G-10, for example).
Poor turning ability, poor six view did not hurt the Hog much, it seems. Everyone is on the recieving end.
It's a new plane, so this should not be disregarded. Everyone wants to try it, I guess.
Its record might also have something to do with prevailing HO mentality in AH.
190 is same as before, and I'd say the quality of pilots has most to do with its record. They all flew WB A-8, and now they feel like they have wings (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Big-guns-good-turn planes hold 0.9* K/D ratio. It might be far better if those weren't the one way ticket planes, used to defend vulched fields.
Moderate turners, moderate guns hold 0.8*-0.7* K/D. Fair enough. My guess is that few have taken time to explore these planes fully and fly them correctly.
Now, my real question is who is guilty for such a lousy record of the G-10 ? It is a superb machine, and you waste it so easy. Bah (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
G-2 has indeed poor record, but it wasn't flown that much, so things can change. Still, it is a good all round plane, comparable to Macchi, guns somewhat weaker.
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Still too early to tell, but I hope there is some form of RPS-type restriction for such planes. My plane is the La-5FN, and while still a competitive aircraft with all this hard-hitting, late war hardware, the La-5FN is slowly being pushed out as a viable choice.
I really don't want to be forced into a F4U-1C, Fw 190A-8, or N1K2, but I don't want to spend my time, getting pasted by hordes of spray-n'-pray corsair hispano cannons.
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leonid
129 IAP VVS RKKA
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Well, this one is easy:
F4U-1C is way overmodelled, fix it asap !
More power to G-2 !
More fuel to G-2 !
More guns to G-2 !
More ammo to G-2 !
More TnB capability to G-2 !
More BnZ capability to G-2 !
More E capability to G-2 !
More visibility to G-2 !
More any other-god-darn-thing to G-2 !
Oh, did I mentioned, F4U-1C is way overmodelled.
Now that I call a thorough, scientific analysis, eh ?
Interesting to see how that ugly P-38 will affect to K/D's. I'll bet it'll be number 1.
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"Flying Finns"
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Well said Janne (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I've been flying the G2 mostly, surprise surprise. I think the modelling was pretty good in the last version. I haven't tried the 1.00 yet, looks like I have to go crank that ratio up a bit (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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Ok I admit, G-2's poor K/D is entirely my fault, came on-line to fly at around 4am after some nice work day.
One problem I had was that my con was really poor, and so was everyone else's by the ammount of "you're warping" on chan 100. With F4U-1C it ain't too bad cause all you need is 1 hit, but with G-2 you gotta pour in a solid burst of single 20mm to get anything done.
//fats
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"Cannon Hog kills everything in the arena."
So does the N1K2, FW-190, yada yada...
It was just the shock of the new. This is, after all, the -1D with cannons. The FM hasn't changed. After the novelty wears off, you'll see a lot less of the the plane than you do now. Almost everyone was flying one last night, what would you expect k/d ratio to be?
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Spinny, VF-17, The Jolly Rogers 8X
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Spinny said:
So does the N1K2, FW-190, yada yada...
Not quite, Spinny. Only two planes go faster than a F4U-1C: P-51D, and possibly, Bf 109G-10. With the N1K2 it was at least six planes who were faster, and with the Fw 190, about five.
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leonid
129 IAP VVS RKKA
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Oh my the Uber Hog whine has begun.
And just as I predicted a couple of days ago on this BBS, the Luftwaffe contingent is leading the cry of "Its OVERMODELED!!" Chill out guys, x4 20mm cannons are not the exclusive right of the Fw190 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
My impression is that it is very similar to the FW190 (especially with the new MW50 WEP modeling, which many have overlooked in their rush to try out the new plane).
Yes the cannons are lethal. So are the 190's and the N1K2's.
But it has some very obvious weakness's too. Poor climb, poor acceleration, slower than the P-51 & Me109, same approximate speed as 190.
The Hog is very vulnerable if caught with inferior E. Just ask Dingy, he handed me my head last night when his Pony jumped my Hog with just about a 3K advantage. Nice flying Dingy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Give it a week or two, and you won't see anymore -1C's than you do 190's and N1K2's. In fact, I bet you still see more N1K2's, since they appeal to the larger TnB crowd.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
Dicta Verm: "Never give the suckers an even break!" or translated "Never engage without an advantage"
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What Verm said.
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Spinny, VF-17, The Jolly Rogers 8X
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Right on Verm.
One thing nobody has mentioned, the La5 can catch a Hawg as well. So as far as flat-out speed, you have to be careful of 190's, 51's, 109's, and La5's. The LW planes are very dangerouse because the accellerate much better than the hawg, and out-climb it to boot. You also need to be very careful of N1k's, as they accell well and can catch you in the verticle if you give them 1/2 a chance.
BTW, I've flown the F4U-1D almost exclusively for months, and it feels right to me. The 1C is identical as far as FM goes. This plane is not the best at ANYTHING in the arena, and yet the "overmodelled" whining starts already. My gawd this thing climbs like a brick, the only thing it can do is hold E well, and even then you must be very gentle with it. The 51 is better as an E fighter to boot.
FYI, my K/D has NOT changed with the 1C. I got just as many kills with the .50 cal version. Yes, this one is more lethal, so I expect my k/d to go up a bit, but in all other respects it's identical to the 1D. Funny, I never heard anybody crying about the F4U-1D being "overmodelled". Well, not too often anyway, and that was only when I slapped some dweeb down and got the obligatory "The F4U can't out-turn my Spitball! You must be cheating!" response.
Sigh, from being the dog of the arena to "uber-plane" over night. Yeah right. I can just imagine the screaming when the P-38L gets introduced. <G>
Verm, you are right about not seeing F4U's as much soon. Not too many pilots have the patience required to do a climb-out at 2.25k fpm to 15k before they engage. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 01-25-2000).]
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Calm down, guys, calm down. Nobody will take it away from you like they did in WB. Why so paranoic about whines when there weren't any (yet) ?
LW is whining about the Hog ?!?! Didn't see any whines in this thread, just the fact how many kills Hog made.
I did not have the slightest intention to call the Hog ubermodeled. A little disbalancing maybe, but not overmodeled (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
No whines from LW that I saw in this thread. More like whine responses of people who were expecting the whines and prepared themselves.
But judging by the nervous reactions ("Luftwaffe contingent leading the whine..."), it is like some doubt their own opinion.
I'd worry much more about constant poor record of the G-10. Damn, guys, the plane is a jewel, and you lose 2 for downing 1 plane !! Why is that ?
[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 01-25-2000).]
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I was snacking on F4U's for quite a bit last night flying my C205. I found nothing different. Just yet *another* cannon equipped , radial engined aircraft. We already had the N1K and the FW. <yawn>
If it got on my six I was as dead as if it were 6 .50's let alone 4 20mm.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 01-25-2000).]
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... that ugly P-38 ...
Ugly?!?!?!! Man, them's fightin' words!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I guess beauty _is_ in the eye of the beholder ... best lookin' WWII a/c to me: P-38, 109, P-51 ... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
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especially with the new MW50 WEP modeling, which many have overlooked in their rush to try out the new plane
Actually I think it's the extra injector in the supercharger that's being approximated by the WEP. Even with this improvement it only gets to 400mph at 20k.
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Before screaming for a reworked fm, keep a couple of things in perspective.
It's a new plane, so this should not be disregarded. Everyone wants to try it, I guess.
Not only is this the case, but only the more experienced pilots are going to know its a new plane, and try it. (all other things being equal, those more familiar with the game are going to be better)
Also, the k/d will never be a gauge for wither the plane is modelled correctly because it is the primary choice for vultching (firepower + plenty of ammo). This probably pushed the 190 up some as well.
Fatty
(one a them FDBs)
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Yea Westy!
They sure do taste good! Yum,Yum!! I love the new F4U. Needs alittle salt, though!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
From what I've seen they're good to use for vulching!
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Damn Ghostrider! This bogey is all over me!!
[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 01-25-2000).]
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Salt Swager???? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Damn those things should taste like anchovies, they're so salt encrusted. Remember we are talking about Carrier Birds here. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
Dicta Verm: "Never give the suckers an even break!" or translated "Never engage without an advantage"
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I flew my first two missions last night in fw to try out new wep(excellent). Then about 5 missions in F4U(20)...I think that last night people where not realizing their peril when shot at by new f4u and not reacting like they where in danger at 1k...People will not make that mistake for much longer..
Bomber pilots take note..Before you try to lure that interceptor to his death...make sure he is not sea blue...
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Pongo
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Damn! Verm, I didn't even think about that! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Okay! Needs alittle pepper! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I'm a toejamty cook anyways!!
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Damn Ghostrider! This bogey is all over me!!
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Correction: La5 will not catch a hog. The La-5FN has a limit of speed in the 380-400 mph range, plus without WEP above 8k now we cannot accelerate nearly fast enough in the 300 mph+ range to hope to catch a hog unless hes below us and we can dive on him. However, I believe a G10 should be able to play catch with one?
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If your in range, so is the enemy.
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These K/D ratios omit the fact that the fast, heavily armed planes are the favorite rides for shameless vulchers like me. Since vulching a field can rack up a lot of kills, these vulchwagons have a higer K/D. If I had to guess I would list the P-51 as having the best all around non-vulching K/D.
With so much of the fighting being either vulching or defending against vulchers, the 109s haven't been able to show their stuff. The same thing happens in WB, where the 109 does much better in scenarios than it does in the MA.
--ra--
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Originally posted by Vermillion:
And just as I predicted a couple of days ago on this BBS, the Luftwaffe contingent is leading the cry of "Its OVERMODELED!!" Chill out guys, x4 20mm cannons are not the exclusive right of the Fw190 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
Maybe F4U is slightly more modelled with additional bonuses than Fw190?
That might be a reason.... (btw. more likely 109 for me than 190, more survivable and more kills)
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Originally posted by ra:
These K/D ratios omit the fact that the fast, heavily armed planes are the favorite rides for shameless vulchers like me. Since vulching a field can rack up a lot of kills, these vulchwagons have a higer K/D. If I had to guess I would list the P-51 as having the best all around non-vulching K/D.
Biggest reason for lousy K/Ds, like spits and n1k2s, is caused by vulching.. they take off hundred of times and die as many times.
P-51? no... I would say Bf109 is the best.
Can't really fight your way off in a P-51, like in Bf109 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Spitfire or N1K2 would be the second... can fight their way out of trouble.
Note; this is also based on that how easy it is to go into fights. Of course you can do great K/D in any plane, but in what time scale? You'll engage more freely in 109/N1K2/spit than in P-51.
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Seems the G2 is getting rid of that sorry K/D ratio slowly as we speak. Currently having reached 0.76 (51/67).
In my eyes its a beauty both in performance and apperance.
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LLv34 Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
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In my eyes its a beauty both in performance and apperance.
I definitely agree on the appearance! As I posted earlier, the 109 is one of my top three WWII planes on the "beauty" scale, and those Finnish markings are a nice touch by HTC ... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
Snefens, I saw where Camo was flying this one, are most of your unit flying it, too? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
P.S. Love your squadron (one of the coolest!) & web site.
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"Maybe F4U is slightly more modelled with additional bonuses than Fw190?"
Ah, the patented Fishu "Allied Conspiracy at
HTC" ineuendo. Maybe we could start a pool: whoever comes closest to guessing the number of times he offers this up over the next six months wins.
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Spinny, VF-17, The Jolly Rogers 8X
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Originally posted by spinny:
"Maybe F4U is slightly more modelled with additional bonuses than Fw190?"
Ah, the patented Fishu "Allied Conspiracy at
HTC" ineuendo. Maybe we could start a pool: whoever comes closest to guessing the number of times he offers this up over the next six months wins.
Can't I even say "maybe"?
Just as a note, I haven't been flying 1.00 yet... so, I just replied a response for that one crybaby, who was yelling about LWs crying... (hush.. not yer business! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
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So far only a fraction of the squad is playing this, but trying my best to convert more (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I know Camo like the G2 too, not sure about Nattulv and Jarski hates it I think (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Our CO BlauKreuz do all the site-maintainence, I will pass the compliement along. He would also like to try AH, but can't get more than 3 FPS for some reason (not THAT bad a computer). He is to buy new one soon, so maybe one more LLv34'er at AH then (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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LLv34 Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
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Thanks for your kind words, Gator (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Yep, not too many of our squad (only 4) are playing AH, I really cant see why? Too hard, maybe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) And they're also frightened of the upcoming cost, which is totally understandable. This is not for everybody!
BK should be getting his new 'puter within a few days, I'm sure he'll be glued to the screen atleast for his 2 week trial (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Cya online!
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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You start a squad with rather historical name or even join one and the game even has a plane with the paint scheme of the squad, and then you don't fly the damn plane 99% of the time. What is the point of wasting a good name like that?
//fats
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The Hog is very vulnerable if caught with inferior E. Just ask Dingy, he handed me my head last night when his Pony jumped my Hog with just about a 3K advantage. Nice flying Dingy.
Thanks for the compliment Verm! Means alot coming from you. You are absolutely correct, the Hog is not any better or worse than any other plane when placed in an E deficit. What makes me shy away from it is not the sheer numbers that fly it....its that miserable 6 view out back.
Give it a week or two, and you won't see anymore -1C's than you do 190's and N1K2's. In fact, I bet you still see more N1K2's, since they appeal to the larger TnB crowd.
Umm...erm....well....
I've just recently started trying to master the Nik myself (a reformed P-51 jock) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). Im really starting to like that plane! Now that I'm beginning to learn how that plane manages its E, its starting to become a formidable weapon.
Wonder what plane I will fly next once I get bored of the Nik? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) P-38 Perhaps? LOL
-Ding
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F4U-1C? I fly it when looking for Buffs or vultching a CAP'd field.
Squads? Not for me, but I think the guys should fly whatever they want.
Nikki? It's a great plane, just a little slow against some of the other planes in the set. You have to let them bring the fight to you.
109's? Love 'em, but you can sure take a beating if you get caught by several fighters at once. 1 vs. 1 it's beautiful.