General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Dawger on January 20, 2017, 03:28:32 PM
Title: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: Dawger on January 20, 2017, 03:28:32 PM
I would like the text icon to disappear inside of X yards to be replaced by a soft glow outlining the aircraft silhouette.
X could be anything from 1000 to 400 yards, preferably closer to 1000.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: DaddyAce on January 20, 2017, 03:38:27 PM
This sounds good to me. I often have trouble seeing the plane, although the icon is quite clear.......maybe I need to play with the settings more, although I partially attribute my issue with aging eyes and that I'm somewhat red green colorblind.....Dawger, your suggestion seems like it would be helpful!
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: Owlblink on January 20, 2017, 07:05:58 PM
I do not like this idea. I understand it's a game but that would take too much away from it being a simulator. If a plane dives out to the deck they can hide their icon and make use of their plane's camo. Having a "highlighting" effect is too big of a step towards a more arcady game style.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: Dawger on January 21, 2017, 08:31:50 AM
I do not like this idea. I understand it's a game but that would take too much away from it being a simulator. If a plane dives out to the deck they can hide their icon and make use of their plane's camo. Having a "highlighting" effect is too big of a step towards a more arcady game style.
The only changes I proposed were within a range where camouflage is completely ineffective.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: Dawger on January 21, 2017, 08:35:53 AM
Dobs originally conceived of this idea two decades ago and explains it in a little more detail in another recent thread.
Quote
Actually proposed this in lieu of icons "way back when" (different Sim though).... it went something like this:
If I look out a view and an aircraft is within 1000 then it gets a halo (highlight) indicating bandit in 1 sec. If it is 1001 to 2000 it takes 2 secs, 2001 to 3000 3 seconds, etc........ If you keep looking long enough the icon appears so you know its a 190, P-51 etc... how long is long enough? Well you can double the time it takes to get a halo...so a con inside 1000 gets an icon in 2 seconds, etc... Once you close within 600 then you get the icon to disappear and only the halo stays.
Gives a little more "realism" to obtaining Tally, getting an ID, and having to "search" for those longer range cons....
The highlight would solve the "aircraft paint pixel matches the terrain paint pixel" issue and "highlight" the aircraft slightly...
If his version were fully implemented the ability to mask against the terrain would be realistically preserved while retaining an icon system to preserve the playability.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: Mongoose on January 21, 2017, 11:03:52 AM
The text icon is there to make up for the depth perception and other visual cues that you can't duplicate on a computer screen. The halo would be too much like an arcade game.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: Chilli on January 21, 2017, 02:15:46 PM
Mongoose, your logic fails me :headscratch: Red text is acceptable, where highlight is not??
I do, understand the concern though. It would not be pleasing to anyone to have a bunch of "glow bug" objects littering the screen.
In both, Dawger's idea and the discussion from another sim, it appears that is not the request. Halo would only appear at close range. Funny, but independently of these suggestions I came to the same conclusion (instead called for a thin line silhouette / which sounds like the same thing) but utilizing the target lock system, that only works if you enable it on a specific target. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,384540.msg5114607.html#msg5114607 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,384540.msg5114607.html#msg5114607)
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: Dawger on January 21, 2017, 03:44:38 PM
Here is a quick edit of DOBS screen shot to show what subtle halo icons could look like in three different icon colors. Top left is his original shot, unedited. The rest are quick ovals of the chosen color to match wing and fuselage and then overlay blended. The result is subtle color hints
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: save on January 21, 2017, 08:02:56 PM
Another idea could be to see only the enemy vertical red bar within 1k distance, like in some scenarios in Warbirds many eon's ago.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: Dawger on January 22, 2017, 12:16:51 PM
I think the aircraft icons from WWIIOL were a pretty innovative solution. (hated the game the few times I played thought)
A circle around the aircraft at distance that unwinds counterclockwise as you get closer.
The aircraft type is visible in the mid ranges but not present when far away or in close.
Once you get very close there is no icon at all.
Example is this video
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: Pudgie on January 22, 2017, 01:03:31 PM
I like this idea..................
:salute
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: bustr on January 22, 2017, 04:20:17 PM
How many of you with a dog in this hunt are at FOV 90-100?
These ideas for changes are good until you get above 100 or use zoom a lot. Here are screen shots at 110. Notice between 600-200 you really don't see much of a difference in the wingspan unless you use the Mil structures on a gunsight in zoom. How many of you know how to do that on the fly?
A halo would make these cons look like a Mario Bros powerup crap especially if you get stuck at the trigger threshold range chasing it. At 400-200 Hitech could have the icon swap out with a red dot on each wing tip and the rudder. But, how many of you really want to watch an annoying flashing red icon as you get stuck on someones tail just at the threshold for any of these changes? A player with epilepsy might even have an interesting lawsuit over it.
Anyone consider the obvious and just have the aircraft type and country tag avatar something you can choose to toggle on or off to reduce the clutter? Or toggle off the plane name only, or toggle off range and plane name? Things like this that Hitech already can choose to reveal in the game window like the HUD.
Otherwise you guys are taking a track here that always fails. You are trying to force Hitech with group consensus to do something you want without making any attempt to see if he wants it.
Con through gunsight at FOV 110, zoom off, 200-1000.
(https://s20.postimg.org/mvuxf30ul/110_FOV.jpg)
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: pembquist on January 22, 2017, 04:50:21 PM
I would be very happy if this feature existed: toggle on-icon for the plane in front of me goes away just for me, all other icons stay on, toggle off back to normal. I know you can toggle through the icon settings one after another, I'd like to have it binary and only effect the plane that you would do target lock to. I don't want the icon to change to an outline. The primary reason I want this is not because I can't see the planes against a dark background per se, but because my aged brain fixates on the icon and makes it hard to decipher what the plane ahead (or behind if it was like target lock) is doing and I tend to blast the hell out of the icon while leaving the plane untouched.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: Pudgie on January 22, 2017, 05:53:31 PM
How many of you with a dog in this hunt are at FOV 90-100?
These ideas for changes are good until you get above 100 or use zoom a lot. Here are screen shots at 110. Notice between 600-200 you really don't see much of a difference in the wingspan unless you use the Mil structures on a gunsight in zoom. How many of you know how to do that on the fly?
A halo would make these cons look like a Mario Bros powerup crap especially if you get stuck at the trigger threshold range chasing it. At 400-200 Hitech could have the icon swap out with a red dot on each wing tip and the rudder. But, how many of you really want to watch an annoying flashing red icon as you get stuck on someones tail just at the threshold for any of these changes? A player with epilepsy might even have an interesting lawsuit over it.
Anyone consider the obvious and just have the aircraft type and country tag avatar something you can choose to toggle on or off to reduce the clutter? Or toggle off the plane name only, or toggle off range and plane name? Things like this that Hitech already can choose to reveal in the game window like the HUD.
Otherwise you guys are taking a track here that always fails. You are trying to force Hitech with group consensus to do something you want without making any attempt to see if he wants it.
Con through gunsight at FOV 110, zoom off, 200-1000.
(https://s20.postimg.org/mvuxf30ul/110_FOV.jpg)
Don't have a dog in this hunt.....I still think it's a good idea, I still like the idea & I use a FOV of 90....the default FOV..................
:salute
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: BuckShot on January 22, 2017, 06:04:04 PM
-1
This is not world of tanks. The highlighted silhouette is one of the reasons I played wot only one time...it stunk, unrealistic.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: bustr on January 22, 2017, 06:44:44 PM
This is not world of tanks. The highlighted silhouette is one of the reasons I played wot only one time...it stunk, unrealistic.
So Buckshot, you didn't like seeing the highlights, or you didn't like that it reduced your ability to hide in a tank?
These are 2 entirely separate issues. Even with our very stealthy ground vehicles, once they are on the move they are highlighted. A moving aircraft would respond with a great number of clues that would increase their visibility also.
Now, if you just don't like seeing them, the compromise is clear to me by making it target lock only visible. You don't lock on a target, you wouldn't see any highlight.
A third alternative comes to mind, after some discussion in other threads, instead of "glowing" highlight, target locked could contain more detail or contrast. (Achieved by +/- power of one or more of the skin's layers). The plane would stand out better, but still look like the original aircraft.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: JunkyII on January 23, 2017, 03:28:35 PM
How many of you with a dog in this hunt are at FOV 90-100?
These ideas for changes are good until you get above 100 or use zoom a lot. Here are screen shots at 110. Notice between 600-200 you really don't see much of a difference in the wingspan unless you use the Mil structures on a gunsight in zoom. How many of you know how to do that on the fly?
A halo would make these cons look like a Mario Bros powerup crap especially if you get stuck at the trigger threshold range chasing it. At 400-200 Hitech could have the icon swap out with a red dot on each wing tip and the rudder. But, how many of you really want to watch an annoying flashing red icon as you get stuck on someones tail just at the threshold for any of these changes? A player with epilepsy might even have an interesting lawsuit over it.
Anyone consider the obvious and just have the aircraft type and country tag avatar something you can choose to toggle on or off to reduce the clutter? Or toggle off the plane name only, or toggle off range and plane name? Things like this that Hitech already can choose to reveal in the game window like the HUD.
Otherwise you guys are taking a track here that always fails. You are trying to force Hitech with group consensus to do something you want without making any attempt to see if he wants it.
Con through gunsight at FOV 110, zoom off, 200-1000.
(https://s20.postimg.org/mvuxf30ul/110_FOV.jpg)
I use 120 and the change they are suggesting would not effect me at all
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: bustr on January 23, 2017, 04:00:59 PM
Junky who cares, you are an anomaly. All games have anomaly players like you just like real life organized sports teams. To the other 98% of the unwashed masses not you in our game, this is a problem.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: whiteman on January 23, 2017, 04:20:29 PM
No, no thanks.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: BuckShot on January 23, 2017, 07:43:44 PM
So Buckshot, you didn't like seeing the highlights, or you didn't like that it reduced your ability to hide in a tank?
These are 2 entirely separate issues. Even with our very stealthy ground vehicles, once they are on the move they are highlighted. A moving aircraft would respond with a great number of clues that would increase their visibility also.
Now, if you just don't like seeing them, the compromise is clear to me by making it target lock only visible. You don't lock on a target, you wouldn't see any highlight.
A third alternative comes to mind, after some discussion in other threads, instead of "glowing" highlight, target locked could contain more detail or contrast. (Achieved by +/- power of one or more of the skin's layers). The plane would stand out better, but still look like the original aircraft.
Both reasons. To me, those issues are very similar in that I didn't like them, and they caused me to uninstall that game.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: JunkyII on January 23, 2017, 09:20:52 PM
Junky who cares, you are an anomaly. All games have anomaly players like you just like real life organized sports teams. To the other 98% of the unwashed masses not you in our game, this is a problem.
Go back to the OP and start again....think you're missing what they are saying
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: Chilli on January 24, 2017, 03:11:47 AM
The fix is easy Buckshot. DON'T use the target lock. You won't see it.
If you want to hide in an aircraft, then :headscratch: Maybe use the sun to obstruct vision, go low 6 o'clock, or some other real world tactic. In other words, why should it bother you that other online players may stand a better chance to actually challenge you?
I too, am not all that headstrong to see something that looks horribly out of place. The original post was for better contrast by using halo instead of red tag at close range. I inserted a wish to enable it using target lock only, but would like the difference to be suttle with just enough "detail" to make it pop better.
A number of ways this could be done tastefully, but only HiTech knows at what cost. Still, I am at a +++ :aok for some kind of change in this direction.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: Dawger on January 24, 2017, 04:47:08 AM
Actually I really just want the butt ugly text icons to go away, especially up close and be replaced by something much less visually obtrusive. A soft halo would give aspect information not available with text, and doesnt look like 1990.
No need to apply it to the cockroaches just the airplanes.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: BuckShot on January 24, 2017, 07:29:43 AM
The fix is easy Buckshot. DON'T use the target lock. You won't see it.
I wouldn't use it, but...To me, this falls into the same category as the new hud stuff; I don't use them and keep them off. Even though I dont use them and don't have to, I think tools like that are bad for this WW2 game overall.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: Tilt on January 24, 2017, 07:31:06 AM
I have just watched a silver car drive down the road passing multiple parked silver vans. In AH terms it was camouflaged.
Yet I could pick it out clearly. If this was fully rendered in AH3 I believe I would not be seeing this silver car so easily even at 200-400 yards.
My PC screen does not permit me to differentiate any depth of focus between bogie and back ground clutter so picking a jinking bogie out when low with fully rendered clutter about is not as easy as RL ................. unless I am running with these back ground graphics turned down. The test is to consider the same situation where back ground graphics are somewhat irrelevant........... when bogie is against sky or water.
Like RL I can see bogie more easily in AH against sky but the argument here is not black and white.............its a matter of degree.
At ranges of 600+ I am referring to the icon anyway............ so it does not matter really.
Would I like a bogie halo at short ranges?.............. well not really as said above its bit WOT. But it would help make up the difference here.
Actually I would prefer a zoom setting that blurred back ground clutter a little bit out of focus but I guess that would be really hard to do as my FE does not know what I am looking at.
The other approach would be to influence the shading of other rides (to pick them out better) as the range closes to that of a cannon/mg firing solution (500?).
The observation I do make is that this issue (and that of the visibility of black dot distant planes) presently penalises the player who has invested in a higher end system and is using it to its fullest. Obviously the ideal is one where by all players have the same level playing field. But I cant help feeling that investment in kit should bring about an improvement in game play...not (even if only in a couple of aspects) the reverse.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: bustr on January 24, 2017, 05:04:58 PM
Until this group consensus fest convinces Hitech to change the game for you.
I forgot about something I had started working on during the alpha because I didn't like the new gunsight alpha mask. You can put sunglasses on your gunsight reflector plate. Night or day it shifts the picture through the gunsight to a more monochrome improving the contrast of the con to its surroundings. Not it's clarity or color. Sunglasses in the real world do the same thing with blue, green, or orange. In AH3 red or orange works best. I discovered this trying to lighten up Waffle's dark grey mask on the gunsight reflector plates. I used to be able to do it in AH2. Instead I discovered that red and amber acted a lot like amber shooting glasses.
At first it's disconcerting until you notice things like looking at a con from above over trees it stands out better. Or diving on a town in our short darkness, the lines of the buildings stand out better as a contrast in the monochrome. It even holds back a bit longer the sun whiteout effect.
I gave up trying to get Hitech to do things in consensus fests like this and started looking at the tools he provides to make minor adjustments to the game for solutions. From watching Hitech for 14 years, you gents may have better luck asking him to allow toggling off the three parts of the icon. Range counter, country tag, and aircraft type since he gives you the ability to completely turn off the icon.
Night time, Amber Mask with red dot. 512x512 8bit bitmap. Mask R22 G9 B0. Darkens clutter and makes objects stand out.
(https://s20.postimg.org/stcl14m4t/AMask.jpg)
Dob's screen capture under low light conditions, doesn't look like full night. Dark gray gunsight mask in effect and it makes objects as you look through it look like objects in full dark under low light conditions.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: Chilli on January 24, 2017, 08:35:25 PM
Bustr,
That IS a problem you ARE correct. That is NOT the whole problem however. Here is how you can screenshot and compare.
In order to take the gun sight and / or windscreen mask out of the equation using F3 mode and look at a P47M at low light from the same distance. You will see an improvement in visibility (yes, clearly can see a change is desirable to reflector plate and maybe even windscreen mask, as you have stated).
With those eliminated from the equation you should now see that the object with nothing but air between view will STILL be more difficult to OUTLINE at close distances.
Your solution would be a very nice improvement. However, even after that, the degree of difficulty in picking up the aircraft against the background is arguably unrealistic.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: bustr on January 25, 2017, 03:21:44 PM
It contrasts even that condition to see the con better than your screen shot. And a silver or light gray aircraft will tend to blend into a silver rock formation as you have conveniently picked out of hour and 13 minute film. That mossie will stand out against the green clutter in a second which you know will happen next. And picking out planes against backgrounds in real life varies from impossible to no problemo depending on a universe of factors that cannot be controlled other than "keep looking" as the pilot.
When I was a kid at the Ft. Meade flying club my father and friends would agree on Saturday mornings to fly in to Fredrick Maryland for lunch. Lots of farmland around Fredrick. We would get up to 6 small aircraft showing up over a designated spot over 30 minutes. Half the time it took a few minutes to find each other looking down for those lower than us even in Cessna white. To kill time waiting sometimes we would play tail chase with up to 4 planes. Even with the kids on board we lost sight of each other.
Here is what this wish simplifies down to.
Wish:
Hitech make planes stand out lit up like a neon sign so I can see them looking down and at a distance.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: JunkyII on January 25, 2017, 03:26:11 PM
It contrasts even that condition to see the con better than your screen shot. And a silver or light gray aircraft will tend to blend into a silver rock formation as you have conveniently picked out of hour and 13 minute film. That mossie will stand out against the green clutter in a second which you know will happen next. And picking out planes against backgrounds in real life varies from impossible to no problemo depending on a universe of factors that cannot be controlled other than "keep looking" as the pilot.
When I was a kid at the Ft. Meade flying club my father and friends would agree on Saturday mornings to fly in to Fredrick Maryland for lunch. Lots of farmland around Fredrick. We would get up to 6 small aircraft showing up over a designated spot over 30 minutes. Half the time it took a few minutes to find each other looking down for those lower than us even in Cessna white. To kill time waiting sometimes we would play tail chase with up to 4 planes. Even with the kids on board we lost sight of each other.
Here is what this wish simplifies down to.
Wish:
Hitech make planes stand out lit up like a neon sign so I can see them looking down and at a distance.
It is true that finding another aircraft against the terrain can be challenging.
That isnt the issue being discussed.
Once you know exactly where the aircraft is, at 400 yards or less they are very easy to see.
And we know exactly where they are and they are rendered invisble by several contributing factors in AH.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: 100Coogn on January 25, 2017, 04:54:34 PM
It is true that finding another aircraft against the terrain can be challenging.
That isnt the issue being discussed.
Once you know exactly where the aircraft is, at 400 yards or less they are very easy to see.
And we know exactly where they are and they are rendered invisble by several contributing factors in AH.
You mean like the blazing red icons in our face @ D400 or less? At that close of a range the icons are a distraction from the target. Just put a little thin red bar beneath the enemy, when they are that close. We do not need the plane-type or range info, when the con is directly in front of us. Just my 2 cents.
Coogan
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: bustr on January 25, 2017, 07:56:43 PM
Couple of years ago someone wish listed that the icon gradually began shrinking until at 400 it was I think only the range marker. Red is red and you shoot it. Outside of 400 the country tag appears then at some distance you get back the plane type designation. Things like this probably need to be on a toggle because not everyone will want to give up the full monti icon like it is now.
If you are trying to get Hitech to completely scrap the current Icon system and replace it over night with what you want today. Your chances of success are proportional to how Hitech hopped into a post and liked the recent wish about changing the radar circles and it was in the next patch while needing ongoing tweaking. It's back to his occasional admonishment about the nature of a wish. The vast majority of wishes are for personal outcomes, not global in scope. And then there's always getting lucky and he had been musing updating the thing in your wish already.
This was for Chilli because this is what he wants but won't just wish list it directly: Hitech make planes stand out lit up like a neon sign so I can see them looking down and at a distance.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: Dawger on January 25, 2017, 08:28:45 PM
Dale will either recognize there is an issue with aircraft visibility at short range or he won't.
It is his game.
Just because there is little is no reason not to post ideas for improvement.
Title: Re: Halo Icons at short range
Post by: Chilli on January 26, 2017, 04:24:08 AM
Actually, it took me about 2 minutes to find the battle between Bruv in the Ki84 and Beer in the rather large Mossie (I got lucky). Bruv caught Beer in what appeared to be an attempted Hammer Head maneuver in which the incredible Ki84 was able to defeat. After the Mossie became oiled it appeared that Beer either tried to dive away or simply stalled. I was astonished that the aircraft became invisible at 489 yards against the rocky terrain.
Bustr, I can guess that several things contributed to this. Most have been discussed in this thread. I directed the picture to you as an example of there being more than just the issue with the sight glass.
Because settings such as screen resolution, monitor color / contrast / gamma and field of view have multiple variations in results (not to mention color blindness and / or faulty vision) these sort of comparisons echo more of the "true" complaint underlining this wish. The game plays fine. If Dale does nothing, the game will still play fine. It won't stop me from grumbling when running into this kind of experience. A good place to start would be, as you suggested to take a hard look at the sight glass. Just as important to hypothesize that would not eliminate all of the complaints, and the wishlist would take on an even more frustrating :bhead tone, ie "I thought we fixed that.... now what?"
As for me asking for neon signs, in most of my posts, I am asking for boost in detail via adjustment of power in certain layers of the skin. You know how this works, and it could result in more contrast. Also, take a look at the line added to dar ring by HiTech today, not even visible until zoomed in at some level. I think that works extremely well as designed.
That came from HiTech's own vision of how that should work. Would he have bothered to tweak it, if he had no feedback on the original concept? That is hard to say; mostly because we are an opinionated bunch, and he has given us the tool to speak up. Heck, he gave us a front porch view during Alpha and Beta testing of a number of works in progress. The man must not ever sit still.