Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: BBP on January 29, 2017, 08:02:39 PM

Title: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: BBP on January 29, 2017, 08:02:39 PM
I WANT ONE!!! :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_P-51_Mustang_variants#/media/File:P-51A.jpg
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: awrabbit on January 31, 2017, 11:49:30 AM
the hispano stang would be a nice addition to AH would cover some ground and could even be  Allison powered variant.  low alt.

if i came modeled with the Merlin in any for it would have to be perked.  or a P-51 C variant could be used.  lots of potions. 

Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Vraciu on January 31, 2017, 11:55:07 AM
Most of our purse fights are at low alt so this airplane would get some use.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Zimme83 on January 31, 2017, 12:08:21 PM
Would be roughly equal to a spit IX in speed at low alt (Mustang I) so it would not be that scary, like a 190A but with poorer climb performance.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: save on February 01, 2017, 11:03:17 AM
4 Hispanos in any plane would see lots of use, specially if it can carry good ordnance.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: JOACH1M on February 01, 2017, 11:38:26 AM
4 Hispanos in any plane would see lots of use, specially if it can carry good ordnance.
mossie is not used much

Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: save on February 01, 2017, 12:01:15 PM
True,it's a specialists plane, much like the 109s.

Particularly it's a bad diver, and is fragile, you easy get pilot wounds, could it be because Mossie pilots have too big heads ?  :D

mossie is not used much
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Dobs on February 01, 2017, 12:06:33 PM
Test platform...

Corsairs had a variant with 4 20s as well....

I'd settle for some torque being modeled in the air:)
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Zimme83 on February 01, 2017, 12:20:30 PM
With its poor overall performance i dont think it would be that popular, the cannons would not compensate for poor top speed, poor turn rate etc. My guess is that it would be like the Typhoon, a suicide jabo. (depending on ord options). But as a fighter the 190A-8 is a more dangerous 4 cannon bird.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Vraciu on February 01, 2017, 12:32:16 PM
Poor turn performance?    Sounds like an A8 actually.   :rofl
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: caldera on February 01, 2017, 04:11:52 PM
Do you think four cannons will be enough?  What happens if you HO a guy that also has four cannons?  I think we need an extra two cannons available as a perked option.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: save on February 02, 2017, 05:25:28 AM
I have actually turned within a sector with an A8  :neener:

To Dobs - we already have that pesky perked F4u1c that have 4*20mm,

And a big YES to more torque.


and to Caldera, Fw190a5-a8 had a Rücksatz carrying in total 6*20mm and 2*mg, I heard it made wonders to the plane performance  :D




Poor turn performance?    Sounds like an A8 actually.   :rofl
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Wyatt134 on July 04, 2017, 01:54:14 PM
its 4 hispano mk2s so its basically a tiffy but with the speed of a mustang just have a loadout for 4 cannons on the bravo personally if i was desighning aircraft in 1944 i woulda put hispano mk5s on the p51D and put a griffon in it hispano mk5s are already in game on the tempest
T
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: atlau on July 04, 2017, 02:52:53 PM
its 4 hispano mk2s so its basically a tiffy but with the speed of a mustang just have a loadout for 4 cannons on the bravo personally if i was desighning aircraft in 1944 i woulda put hispano mk5s on the p51D and put a griffon in it hispano mk5s are already in game on the tempest
T

Think you forgot some punctuation:)
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Mister Fork on July 04, 2017, 05:07:21 PM
So we're clear, we're talking about the British Mustang MkIa with the 4x20mm hispano cannons, the Allison engine that topped out at 382 mph, had the older canopy, and NO ordnance options.  About 111 ended up serialized with the RAF in this configuration - probably less actually made it in the air.

What exactly would make this version a more popular version compared to the P-51B that is mostly a hangar queen? And with it's smaller wing area, it's not going to turn as well as the P-51B/D and has a climb rate of 3000ft/s.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Guppy35 on July 06, 2017, 11:01:42 PM
There is no discussing this as it's been done many times over the years.  Folks see 4 cannons and they wet themselves thinking that's the answer to all their cartoon flying issues.  If you are really going to push for an Allison Mustang then the A-36 or the MG armed RAF versions or 50 call armed USAAF versions would be better options just because of their numbers and historical use.

But again, this isn't about anything but wanting 4 cannons.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: 10thmd on July 07, 2017, 03:06:49 PM
Test platform...

Corsairs had a variant with 4 20s as well....

I'd settle for some torque being modeled in the air:)

Are you saying torque isn't modeled?  IF you think so take up any 109 and turn off auto trim, engage wep and see what happens when that MW-50 hits.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Devil 505 on July 07, 2017, 03:52:58 PM
There is no discussing this as it's been done many times over the years.  Folks see 4 cannons and they wet themselves thinking that's the answer to all their cartoon flying issues.  If you are really going to push for an Allison Mustang then the A-36 or the MG armed RAF versions or 50 call armed USAAF versions would be better options just because of their numbers and historical use.

But again, this isn't about anything but wanting 4 cannons.

Damn right, Dan.  :aok

It's amazing how many people posting "facts" in this thread really have no idea what they're talking about.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Chalenge on July 08, 2017, 11:34:39 PM
So we're clear, we're talking about the British Mustang MkIa with the 4x20mm hispano cannons, the Allison engine that topped out at 382 mph, had the older canopy, and NO ordnance options.  About 111 ended up serialized with the RAF in this configuration - probably less actually made it in the air.

What exactly would make this version a more popular version compared to the P-51B that is mostly a hangar queen? And with it's smaller wing area, it's not going to turn as well as the P-51B/D and has a climb rate of 3000ft/s.

Smaller wing area? The wing never changed.

Thankfully, I know HTC will not be using any of the information in this thread should they ever add the P-51 Apache.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Guppy35 on July 09, 2017, 12:56:26 AM
Smaller wing area? The wing never changed.

Thankfully, I know HTC will not be using any of the information in this thread should they ever add the P-51 Apache.

Just so you know, the Mustang fanatics pitch a fit when someone claims the Apache name.  Never happened other than a suggestion.  Officially the name was never adopted.  Trust me, I tried to suggest it and got clobbered :)

Push for the A36.  With the way the game is played, that one would get plenty of use with the dive brakes and dive bombing.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Greebo on July 09, 2017, 01:51:29 AM
If the Allison Mustang gets modelled I expect it would have various armament options like the Hurricane Mk IIA/B/C or the I-16. I think the dive bomber would need a separate variant from the fighters though.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: save on July 09, 2017, 02:03:42 AM
If we get it with different loadout, everyone and his mother will take the cannon version, much like the rare 3-cannon LA-7, or the .50 call Lancaster.

If AH had a rare variant of p47 with 8 cannons with loads of ammo, it would be the only p47  you would ever see.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Guppy35 on July 09, 2017, 02:13:06 AM
If the Allison Mustang gets modelled I expect it would have various armament options like the Hurricane Mk IIA/B/C or the I-16. I think the dive bomber would need a separate variant from the fighters though.

The A-36 is the only Allison bird we'd use as it's role was so much different than the other Mustangs.  An RAF version with the 303s would be interesting for events but I figure it would be a hanger queen.  The 50 cal version would be nice for the CBI, but again, how much arena use would it get?

I'm opposed to the cannon version as it's wished for purely for that reason, nothing else.  The numbers were limited as was their use.  The A-36 could at least sub for the RAF Allison bird or the CBI USAAF used bird.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: trap78 on July 09, 2017, 10:33:52 AM
If we ever get an Allison Mustang, the A-36 would make the most sense, not the four cannon bird. The 51-A would be cool, but the invader/apache is the biggest hole in the Mustang plane set. The late war MA "hangar queen" debate is irrelevant if the goal is to offer a good representation of combat aircraft that served in WWII.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Chalenge on July 12, 2017, 01:15:07 AM
I am a Mustang guy, and I'm telling you the first training units were told their plane was the "P-51 Apache," and likewise the ground attack guys (where the "A" comes from) were training in "A-36 Mustangs." The very first North American wartime poster for either airplane named it "P-51 Apache," which was the project name from the very beginning.

A-36 Mustang

(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/19029340_1935866720031283_8400728823148980581_n_zps3oq673oh.jpg)

(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/P51_Av_4312_ad_p159_W_zpslcxn5pen.png)

P-51 Apache

I have seen the wartime poster for the original "P-51 Apache" and I am still looking for it online.

See "Kinzey, Bert. P-51 Mustang in Detail & Scale: Part 1; Prototype through P-51C. Carrollton, Texas: Detail & Scale Inc., 1996. ISBN 1-888974-02-8"

(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/p-51-mustang-poster-3_zps07oqfsog.gif)
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Chalenge on July 12, 2017, 01:33:18 AM
I believe the original poster was something like this one, but stating more clearly that the P-51 was an Apache, obviously.

(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/Apache.jpg)
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: BuckShot on July 13, 2017, 08:57:11 AM
Looks like photobucket is telling everyone to photosuckit.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Chalenge on July 13, 2017, 04:17:32 PM
Yeah, and that sucks it alright. I'll just change services.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Guppy35 on July 16, 2017, 01:08:35 PM
I have a book from 41 made for kids that refers to the coming P-51 as the Apache as well.  Some guy posted the official AAF position on it in an memo put out during the war and Mustang was it. 

I'm not arguing either way, just suggesting the real down in the dirt 51 guys get touchy about "Apache" :)

Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: icepac on July 18, 2017, 08:38:17 PM
In warbirds, it seemed that the A36 was the default plane.

If you installed warbirds and clicked "fly", you would be in the a36.

I rarely saw it flying in the arenas......except when I accidently selected it.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: trap78 on July 19, 2017, 08:07:21 PM
In Warbirds the A36 was the first plane on the list; like the A20 is here. In the RPS when the 190 would first come out, the A36 and the 47-C were the only Allied planes that could compete with the Wulf.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Petey on July 20, 2017, 09:46:10 AM
interesting picked from the web.


Mustang Ia

March of 1941, the US Congress passed the Lend/Lease Act which permitted the "lending" of US built aircraft to nations that were "vital to the security of the United States". This allowed the US to place an order for 150 more Mustangs to be sent to Brittan. This allocation was NA-91, RAF designation of Mustang Ia. The Mustang Ia was equipped with four Hispano 20mm cannons installed in the wings. The nose guns were deleted. Out of the 150 ordered, only 111 were serialized for the RAF and probably less than that actually received.

133 P-47 M's  130 delivered to the 56th.

how many aircraft have to see service or be delivered to a Squadron to be considered as significant enough to have modeled in game?

Just curious.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Guppy35 on July 20, 2017, 11:26:59 PM
interesting picked from the web.


Mustang Ia

March of 1941, the US Congress passed the Lend/Lease Act which permitted the "lending" of US built aircraft to nations that were "vital to the security of the United States". This allowed the US to place an order for 150 more Mustangs to be sent to Brittan. This allocation was NA-91, RAF designation of Mustang Ia. The Mustang Ia was equipped with four Hispano 20mm cannons installed in the wings. The nose guns were deleted. Out of the 150 ordered, only 111 were serialized for the RAF and probably less than that actually received.

133 P-47 M's  130 delivered to the 56th.

how many aircraft have to see service or be delivered to a Squadron to be considered as significant enough to have modeled in game?

Just curious.

After the 600 or so mg armed RAF Allison Mustangs show up, and the 500 A-36s show up and the 310 USAAF P51As show up.  Hows that? :)
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: MiloMorai on July 21, 2017, 08:06:06 AM

133 P-47 M's  130 delivered to the 56th.

how many aircraft have to see service or be delivered to a Squadron to be considered as significant enough to have modeled in game?

Just curious.

You do know that these a/c were grounded for several months.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Petey on July 21, 2017, 09:37:01 AM
yes they had some growing pains.  and  i think 12 pilots were lost due to mechanical issues.

Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: DaveBB on July 21, 2017, 10:33:03 AM
I thought the problem with P-47M's stemmed from saltwater corrosion from poor storage aboard ships.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: caldera on July 21, 2017, 10:39:39 AM
The only way they grant this wish is if it comes with four exclamation points.  Three is just not gonna cut it.
Title: Re: P-51 with 4 CANNONS!!!
Post by: Petey on July 21, 2017, 10:43:33 AM

I didn't read into the details of what caused the mechanical issues I was only searching for the numbers of the AC deployed.  however it did have something to do with the engines and that being such highly tuned performance engines they had problems.  I didnt dig any further to find as to why.