Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Vraciu on February 13, 2017, 02:47:06 AM
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I may tweak the specular settings a tad along with a few panels that I just noticed...but we are a LONG way from where it started. It's hard to believe this is the same Mustang.
I began this project because *my* "Jo-Baby" gave me a painting of this airplane signed by Lt. McCampbell as a birthday present one year. It has now morphed into an additional seven skins.
:x
I have had a blast doing this. Thanks to all of you for the help, advice, criticism, and encouragement. We've definitely made progress.
:salute
Here's the original.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=357987.0;attach=18962)
Here's the latest...
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385118.0;attach=26695)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385118.0;attach=26697)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385118.0;attach=26689)
The real Jo-Baby, third from camera:
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385118.0;attach=26693)
A different shot in hi-res of the same formation which I based my color selection upon:
http://www.cloud9photography.us/Military-Aviation-9/North-American-P-51-Mustang/i-gjxKKDN
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Nice! Big improvement.
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Adding the lighting effects has improved the skin a lot, it is less "flat" looking. I'd still like to see some variation between individual metal panels on the fuselage though. You can see this on the photo of "Miss Ruth", the panel below the star and bar insignia is darker and bluer than the panels around it. This sort of variation came about from panels on the aircraft coming from different batches of aluminium, perhaps a different thickness or strength of alloy being used here and there. Adding some variation would make it look less like shiny grey paint.
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The red & yellow are too rich. Just my opinion. :salute
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Adding the lighting effects has improved the skin a lot, it is less "flat" looking. I'd still like to see some variation between individual metal panels on the fuselage though. You can see this on the photo of "Miss Ruth", the panel below the star and bar insignia is darker and bluer than the panels around it. This sort of variation came about from panels on the aircraft coming from different batches of aluminium, perhaps a different thickness or strength of alloy being used here and there. Adding some variation would make it look less like shiny grey paint.
No disrespect intended with the following..
I am aware of the reasons behind panel variations. Having stared at literally THOUSANDS of Mustang photos, however, there is no hard rule for how they appear. For every photo that shows obvious differences I can find two with little or none.
The only trend I see is that variation diminishes with time. This is due to tarnish and/or corrosion. Some airplanes actually look like they're painted a uniform color, that's how close they are to being the same.
MISS RUTH's blue hue under the national insignia is due to reflectivity not a panel color difference, IMHO. The trailing edge wing fairing was often lighter than the surrounding metal on the D--though not always. I think that's what we are seeing, and the sun is washing out the rest. Regardless of cause, JO-BABY doesn't have this in any photo of her I have access to.
My biggest hangup with the variation as shown in the game is one of subtlety. Even a one percent in brightness is too stark. I don't know if it is better addressed with a hue change.
The game with all ighting enabled washes out the metal in direct light. Toning that down makes the skin look gray. It's extremely frustrating. I am at a loss.
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It's extremely frustrating. I am at a loss.
Greebo makes metal look like metal. If you want your metal to do the same, listen to Greebo. Also, grab the default P-47D-25 and D-40 that he did and study the bitmaps. Bare metal is extremely difficult, but we have a master here - heed his advice.
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Greebo makes metal look like metal. If you want your metal to do the same, listen to Greebo. Also, grab the default P-47D-25 and D-40 that he did and study the bitmaps. Bare metal is extremely difficult, but we have a master here - heed his advice.
Listening to you guys is how I got this far in the first place. :cheers: That being said...and again, no disrespect intended...
I disagree. I fly real airplane's made out of metal. He approximates metal and does a pretty fine job, but the game has limitations.
I've stared at thousands of photos of these airplane's. I've stared at them up close. I've flown some of them even.
I've flown every NMF skin in the game offline, not just his. None of them look right, especially the Mustangs (which, generally speaking, had painted wings as discussed elsewhere). Some are better than others but none are without flaws.
Less is more, but nobody seems to get that.
Panel variation is not the problem I'm having--I think specular reflectivity and/or tone is/are. With ALL LIGHTING it gets washed out into chalky white. In shadow it turns gray. I'm banging my head against a wall. :bhead
Any way...
Soon it will be someone else's problem. I'm leaving when my six month subscription expires. You guys can paint them with mud and charcoal at that point for all I care. They're obviously worthless any way since the commmon misperception is these planes look(ed) in real life like someone hit them with a dump truck.
I'm making a few more passes to improve them over the next few months then I'm out. When the 3D shapes are updated to the new standard my skins will fade into oblivion and none will be the wiser. :salute
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Nice! Big improvement.
Thanks man. :salute
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The red & yellow are too rich. Just my opinion. :salute
Thanks for the input. I feel the evidence indicates otherwise. If I desaturate them any more the plane looks like a cartoon.
Perhaps the hue needs a little tweak, though.
The best photos out there (like the following) along with the book on my desk--"Spitfires and Yellow Tails"--show the yellow (and usually the red) as very stark. Duplicating the gloss has been a challenge I'm still wrestling with.
You be the judge. :salute
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385118.0;attach=26740)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385118.0;attach=26742)
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Thing is that they were not trying to hide who or what they were in the air. Those colors were meant to be bright and to stand out. Unlike the Luftwaffe which got more and more drab as the war went on. :D
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Thing is that they were not trying to hide who or what they were in the air. Those colors were meant to be bright and to stand out. Unlike the Luftwaffe which got more and more drab as the war went on. :D
Well said. :salute
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I'm also going to point out (before I forget) that the panel on MISS RUTH Act of the wingroot fairing is not a different color than those beside it, IMO, but is actually at a different angle. As a result it is reflecting light differently. The blue in the national insignia (which is painted with the same color throughout) on that panel shows evidence of this phenomenon.
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I'm also going to point out (before I forget) that the panel on MISS RUTH Act of the wingroot fairing is not a different color than those beside it, IMO, but is actually at a different angle. As a result it is reflecting light differently. The blue in the national insignia (which is painted with the same color throughout) on that panel shows evidence of this phenomenon.
I beg to differ, the color shift occurs along the entirety of the panel line with the wing root fairing. The fairing only changes shape close to the wing itself, but joins the fuselage close to flush.
(http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2005/12/images/walkaround_p51_f_004.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GDFpcXfIBkg/T0pz8px4hTI/AAAAAAAAEiw/yepE-hGiIMk/s1600/p51.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8383/29208649872_e9959cc339_o.jpg)
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I beg to differ, the color shift occurs along the entirety of the panel line with the wing root fairing. The fairing only changes shape close to the wing itself, but joins the fuselage close to flush.
Walk up to one and touch it. They are multi-angled.
The panel (or panels) aft of the wing root fairing bends around the fuselage. The color shift you see is light-induced. The roundel section of the national insignia is reflecting light at a slightly different angle. That's why the dark blue has a non-identical hue.
The wing-root fairing on MISS RUTH is both light-shifting AND materially different (the latter on some Mustangs, not all).
(http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/history/images/p-51_mustang_hero_med_01_1280x436.jpg)
Some Mustangs (again, not all) DO have a different color aluminum on that panel aft of the fairing. Some skip a panel. Some look identical.
(http://www.swissmustangs.ch/var/m_7/71/71f/28906/1725623-44-63975~21st~FG~46th~FS~$23256.jpg)
(http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q569/bryguyw/563807_345790782122897_2039809715_n_zpseb11f8ee.jpg) (http://s1164.photobucket.com/user/bryguyw/media/563807_345790782122897_2039809715_n_zpseb11f8ee.jpg.html)
(http://www.318fis.com/IMAGES/F-51D%2000%20318%20FS%20CO%20JAMES%20V%20TONER%203%20KILLS%20img850%20550%20X%20257.jpg)
As the plane ages the panel color differences moderate due to tarnish.
I see this on the bright work of my airplane every year after they're polished. Within a couple of months the shine goes from being like a mirror to dull like a coke can.
(http://web.tiscalinet.it/warbirds/warbirds/P51-Vigna2.JPG)
In shadow this Mustang appears gray, again due to tarnish. It wouldn't take long for the environment of Europe to tarnish the shine on an unpainted airplane.
Using restored warbirds is not always a reliable source. Only a handful come close to how they would have appeared during the war.
(https://img.apmcdn.org/18051d7810afff7430a2044a49224f5e6678a093/uncropped/d0b785-20111004-aircorps6.jpg)
Another with the varied fuselage panel aft of the wingroot. I can find no explanation as to why some had this and others did not. I've found a half dozen variations on this.
Examples:
- Some match the fairing to the bright side.
- Some have a bright fairing, then--as we move aft--a panel that doesn't match, then a panel that matches the fairing.
- Some have a standard color fairing but skip TWO panels before a change (bottom).
- Some have all three the same color as the rest of the fuselage.
- Some have all three being different (below).
(http://www.worldwarphotos.info/wp-content/gallery/usa/aircrafts/p-51-mustang/P-51D_Mustang_Wrecked_On_Iwo_Jima_1945_2.jpg)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b9/ca/55/b9ca558ba9b41484b695be49909700c6.jpg)
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I think it looks great! Can only get better:-)
I agree with your comment on the lighting htting the curves and sometimes the dents in thr metal is what causes many of thr color variations, least from what I can see from your examples.
IF you were to vary the color on the frame panels ever so slightly (and maybe some very small tweaking on bitmap angles to adjust how the light reflects) it may mimic the light reflecting effect for our virtual world. I'm sure you'll get it close to perfection in the long run!
I hope you come back, will miss another pilot with knowledge taking off for the final time.
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I think it looks great! Can only get better:-)
Thanks, bro. I keep trying to improve it. Learning little by little. It sure looks good from inside the cockpit. I finally was able to get some highlighting of panel lines in there after listening to these guys explain it over and over and over again. Not quite as good as the way they do it but I like it. I'm a minimalist because that's the way I think airplanes actually look. Nobody agrees with me so at least that makes me unique. :) :O
I agree with your comment on the lighting htting the curves and sometimes the dents in thr metal is what causes many of thr color variations, least from what I can see from your examples.
IF you were to vary the color on the frame panels ever so slightly (and maybe some very small tweaking on bitmap angles to adjust how the light reflects) it may mimic the light reflecting effect for our virtual world. I'm sure you'll get it close to perfection in the long run!
I will give it another shot and see what I can do with it. I just finished up adding a bunch of stuff I didn't notice before. Will take a day off from it and then hit it again to see if I can tweak these panels.
I hope you come back, will miss another pilot with knowledge taking off for the final time.
Thanks man. You're likely one of the very few who thinks that, but I appreciate it.
I won't lie, I was pretty hacked off when I wrote that. I love this game. Walking away is not going to be easy. I've already calmed down some. Gonna' take a couple of weeks away from everything and reset my headgear. A few deep breaths and all that...
:salute
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Vraciu,
I just noticed your screenshots dont' have the bright "shadow gap" bug on the shadowed side of an object. Doesn't that bug affect you? I thought it was universal....
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Vraciu,
I just noticed your screenshots dont' have the bright "shadow gap" bug on the shadowed side of an object. Doesn't that bug affect you? I thought it was universal....
It does and that brings to light (pun) another issue I am having. I do not have shadows or reflections enabled. It seems that doing so really screws with how the skin looks.
When working with OD I don't have many issues but with metal....yikes. I am getting washed out in the light and goofy shadows opposite. Black still looks like gray or charcoal in shadow. It's extremely frustrating.
I guess it's the nature of the beast.
I am also getting other weird effects. Where the skin wraps around you will see lines at where the skin meets itself, the main wheels show through the gear doors at certain angles, etc.
I suppose these issues will be addressed in the new shape layout down the road.
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Do you have a screenshot of it? I'll try and duplicate it on my end to confirm.
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Here's one that shows it a little. I didn't realize you had shadows turned off, that explains it.
(http://i.imgur.com/afQSv9T.jpg)
You can see under the stabilizer, the shadow has a bright line. should be nothing but dark shadow under the stabilizer. This is not unique to your skin - its any skin castig a shadow. Was reported in Beta bug testing but HiTech hadn't decided how to fix it.
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Also by the propeller blade, no?
I seem to recall getting those. Will turn shadows on when I do my next test flight.
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Also by the propeller blade, no?
I seem to recall getting those. Will turn shadows on when I do my next test flight.
Yep, there too. Good eye. I think everybody gets them - the graphics engine just does that with shadows. Must be a tough fix, or one with an unacceptable tradeoff.
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Yep, there too. Good eye. I think everybody gets them - the graphics engine just does that with shadows. Must be a tough fix, or one with an unacceptable tradeoff.
Well, as I see it there are probably half a dozen fixes this engine needs. In some ways I preferred the old one. Hopefully once they get this one sorted out it will be solid like AH2 was.
The skin joints, bleed through, blurring of the panel with Post Lighting enabled, and the effect on dark colors in shadow are my top three. The latter though, is a must-have. I think what drives that is the same thing that makes bullet holes look white in certain lighting. It's REALLY screwy.
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Well, as I see it there are probably half a dozen fixes this engine needs. In some ways I preferred the old one. Hopefully once they get this one sorted out it will be solid like AH2 was.
The skin joints, bleed through, blurring of the panel with Post Lighting enabled, and the effect on dark colors in shadow are my top three. The latter though, is a must-have. I think what drives that is the same thing that makes bullet holes look white in certain lighting. It's REALLY screwy.
The bullet holes I think is just the spec maps for the hit objects being full reflection for some reason.
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The bullet holes I think is just the spec maps for the hit objects being full reflection for some reason.
Ahhh... I never considered that.
Something that needs tweaking for sure.