Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: cav58d on February 13, 2017, 05:20:28 PM
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Anyone know if the Thrustmaster T-16000M Flight Stick is being discontinued, or if a refresh is on the way? Sold out EVERYWHERE, and is going for a stupid amount on Amazon.
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I noticed that, too.
They just recently remodelled it and seems like they botched their production queue and ran out of supply temporarily.
It is still a main part of their joystick line (probably the main part of it) judging from their home page. I'm guessing it will be back up to stock everywhere like before within a few weeks.
Interestingly, although US places all seem to be out, Amazon UK had a handful still in stock as of a few days ago.
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Anyone using this bad boy? Worth waiting for? Price is right.
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My brother in law, MARK4 uses one and he loves it. He has had his a few as well so that speaks well for the life of it. He has things setup for a lefty, so some of the setting are backwards to me but when I have messed around with it it seems very smooth and precise.
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Anyone using this bad boy? Worth waiting for? Price is right.
I got one for a couple of friends who like them.
I think they are the best inexpensive stick for AH.
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There are a few places that claim to have them in stock.
Do a search on Google and look at the ads at the top -- click through a few, and you will perhaps find a place that has them. When I looked, Fry's and B&H claimed to have some in stock.
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Anyone using this bad boy? Worth waiting for? Price is right.
I'm using one. I know at least half a dozen other Finns use them. It might well be the best stick in its price category and better than many of the more expensive ones.
Notice that TM also sell a HOTAS and a Flight Pack featuring the same stick along with a throttle and pedals.
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Yes AH has a dismal search feature. Lots of complaints but it still sucks. Just google using aces high t-1600M.
Super stick.
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Gonna get me one when they are back in stock. Between completely new rig, all peripherals, track IR and now this stick, playing AH sit cheap!
New computer $1,049
Monitor - $199
Track IR - $169
Joystick -$60
Re-discovering the game that made you a "gamer" over a decade ago in moms basement, and now playing it in the comfort of your man cave in your own home...PRICELESS.
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Yes AH has a dismal search feature. Lots of complaints but it still sucks. Just google using aces high t-1600M.
Super stick.
:headscratch: :headscratch: :headscratch:
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Max, I have come to the conclusion that most are to lazy to click on the "Advanced Search" link under the regular search box when using Aces High message board Search feature
if they would only just click on that "Advanced Search" link and setup the Search to search a particular area/ forum(s) etc.... then Aces High message board Search feature is very quick in response on showing threads and/or posts that are valid to the search in question!
the options to use or not use are almost limitless
most who try to use it do not realize that by not using the Advanced Search and setting it up to search in specific areas or for specific words or specific member's usernames who have made posts, or even set the number of days from 0 to since the message boards came on-line, again, they don't realize that the search feature is scanning through every single thread and post that is on the message boards since the beginning, if they are using the Simple Search function and not using the Advanced Search link and adjusting the options available....
^
^
^ This is why they complain about it
edit: what most use ---> Simple Search http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=search
what they should use--> Advanced Search http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=search;advanced;search=;search=
then uncheck the All box and click on the + sign to maximize the "Choose a board to search in, or search all " drop down list of all forums, then check only the appropriate forums that you think what you are looking for might show up in, and also adjust the number of days to look through default is set at 0 to 9999 days ( if I am not mistaken "0" means Today )
it is very simple and thorough
Hope this helps
TC
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Great write up TC. - Thanks!
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Yes AH has a dismal search feature. Lots of complaints but it still sucks. Just google using aces high t-1600M.
Super stick.
If you are talking about the bulletin board search, simply limit the time period and it works fine. SMF never designed it to be able to search over 4 million posts on a board so it times out if you try to search all 17 years of the boards life.
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I've been looking to upgrade from my old Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. I've used CH and others over the years but liked the Logitech for its somewhat stronger spring action and lack of "stiction". This thread convinced me and I ordered the HOTAS version from B&H yesterday. Evidently the stick by itself is not available until mid March but the HOTAS is available now. It shipped today.
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https://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-16000M-Flight-Stick-PC/dp/B004PZIEF4/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1487267164&sr=8-3&keywords=16000m
Original version of stick is available on Amazon.
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:noid check out Gladiator :noid
It's good
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Cav, I've used this stick for awhile and found it a great replacement for my old precision pro. I think I originally got it at Frys for around 40-50 dollars. I have found it more stable with a heavier base. I have absolutely no complaints.
one-eye
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Anyone using the HOTAS version? Reviews look pretty good.
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I'm using the T16000 with the throttle of a TM TopGun Afterburner 2. Last night there was some chat about the stick and someone said that he doesn't like the buttons of the T16000. At some level I agree. I don't use them at all. There's some functions configured on them, but I can't remember what they do. They all look the same!
I believe that the throttle of the T16000 HOTAS is at least as good as the one I use. There's no going back to a single stick for me now that my left hand fingers have learned to do their job without looking.
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I ended up buying the new 16000M sick only. I really like the feel, but the LED that comes on when making inputs is kind of annoying. Even though the stick advertises 12 base buttons, half are inaccessible without removing your flying hand off stick or using opposite Fan. This is by design though as an ambidextrous controller.
I am going to look into the throttle next time I go to microcenter.
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I'm using the T16000 with the throttle of a TM TopGun Afterburner 2. Last night there was some chat about the stick and someone said that he doesn't like the buttons of the T16000. At some level I agree. I don't use them at all. There's some functions configured on them, but I can't remember what they do. They all look the same!
I believe that the throttle of the T16000 HOTAS is at least as good as the one I use. There's no going back to a single stick for me now that my left hand fingers have learned to do their job without looking.
I plan to program the buttons on the stick base for things I seldom use and would normally have to hit the keyboard for, like dive flaps, tail hook, jump to other a/c in gunner position, damage check, toggle icons, etc. A reminder card will be necessary for when my old brain doesn't remember which is which.
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there is a new version. I liked the t16000m, but this is cooler and updated buttons and such
http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_US/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B0/t16000m-fcs-flight-pack-complete-solution-flight-simulation-fans
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there is a new version. I liked the t16000m, but this is cooler and updated buttons and such
http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_US/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B0/t16000m-fcs-flight-pack-complete-solution-flight-simulation-fans
That's the version of stick and throttle I'm getting. Should be here Tuesday. I'll stay with my old CH Pro pedals. They seem to get better and smoother the more sunflower hulls and cigar ashes I drop onto them!
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FYI - If your looking for stick only, microcenter has them for $60-
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Fought with UPS all day but ended up with the new TM's this evening and got started setting them up. Very smooth and precise with many buttons and a paddle, a mini joy stick and a roller wheel that don't seem to be useful for AH. I'm questioning whether the "scaling" will be necessary for the X and Y axes. I'll fool with it off line for a couple of days to fine tune.
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Let us know. I went with stick only, but i'm definitely considering adding the throttle. Enjoy!
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I spent all day setting up the Thrustmaster. Still hard to hit the right buttons but I went on line for a brief check out and caught a spit and a 190 chasing my squad mate's bombers. Killed one and got an assist on the other with no damage to my P-47. I suspected the old stick was causing my gunnery problems and I was right. Being able to hit when the opportunity presents itself is priceless. My ACM is not real hot but adequate.
By the way, I used the default stick scaling and it works like a charm.
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How's the action on the throttle?
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How's the action on the throttle?
It is nice and smooth. I tightened the resistance a bit and it has just enough "stiction" to hold its position. It is linear rather than pivoted and that leads to a consistent angle and low profile. Buttons and switches are easy to access.
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I just ordered the stick on its own. It seems to be available in a ton of different places, including the HOTAS. I almost ordered the HOTAS setup for $106 or so from Amazon but ended up getting just the stick for 60 Euro from a German vendor (I live in Germany and the shipping is 1-2 days instead of 7-14 to my APO).
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The stick feels great but it really could use another hat switch. I'm thinking of ordering the throttle so I can have a true hands off situation.
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For those of you using the throttle, how did you program the buttons? Just got it but it seems they are hard to reach
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The T-16000M was too small a stick for my hand as well as having far too few switches/buttons. The stick is smooth and easliy programmable, but just too small for me.
I did invest in a Warthog and just love it.
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For those of you using the throttle, how did you program the buttons? Just got it but it seems they are hard to reach
I have never used their TARGET software, mine is set up (can reach them all without repositioning my hand):
left front orange button: zoom on/off
next front orange button: WEP
rocker: flaps up/down
right side orange button: dive brakes
middle side switch of those 3 black side switches: up-head up, left/ right side- head slides left/right
Had trims set up to lower black switch but I never use it and other switches are all unused and not needed so far.
I have the T-16000M with throttle and rudder pedals and I am pleased. I tend to be a bit aggressive on the view switch but it has been working flawless so far. I have never used the slider, side buttons and twist function on that stick. My biggest complaint would be that you can`t lock the twist action when not needed but that should be an easy fix, if not, then it will be when the warranty period is over. I wish the rudder pedals had hall sensors as well.
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For those of you using the throttle, how did you program the buttons? Just got it but it seems they are hard to reach
I like to have the stick right in front of me with the throttle on the left so the left side buttons of the stick base would be easily reached as well as the slider for RPM. However, I can't remember what I've mapped to them so I use the keyboard instead. Obviously the most important in-flight buttons for me have already been mapped to the stick top and the throttle.
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The only problem with the T-16000M stick is that it's only a 16-bit controller.
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16 bit... as opposed to what?
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16 bit... as opposed to what?
32 bit.
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32 bit.
:rofl Quite true.
Coogan
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Is there a joystick with 32-bit precision?
Does the game even support 32-bit precision? The values look 16-bit.
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For those of you using the throttle, how did you program the buttons? Just got it but it seems they are hard to reach
Try placing a board in your lap and set the joystick on that.
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I meant more that the throttle is too wide/distance between the buttons such as the pinky roller to the 3 hat switches is just far enough that you need to reposition your hand slightly to use. And I'd say i have average size hands :p
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Is there a joystick with 32-bit precision?
Yes, there are quite a few. My pedals (VKB) are 32-bit and the VKB joystick I've got on order is also 32-bit.
Does the game even support 32-bit precision? The values look 16-bit.
AH takes all of its controller information from Windows (via DirectX), yes, the game does support 32-bit controllers since DirectX does.
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Do you know how to program in ah where max throttle is automatically wep?
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Do you know how to program in ah where max throttle is automatically wep?
If you have a programmable joystick, you could do it through the programming software. I can do it through CH Control Manager but, at least for me, it was just easier to program one of the buttons on my Pro Throttle to engage/disengage WEP.
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Do you know how to program in ah where max throttle is automatically wep?
I have a Saitek X-52 that has an upper and lower end detent.
I use the upper end detent to engage WEP and the lower to bail out. (also called tripping the wire)
Coogan
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Yes, there are quite a few. My pedals (VKB) are 32-bit and the VKB joystick I've got on order is also 32-bit.
AH takes all of its controller information from Windows (via DirectX), yes, the game does support 32-bit controllers since DirectX does.
I took a look at their joysticks and none mention 32bit pots or sensors, only a 32bit arm controller, which obviously handles pc to device communication and more advanced fuctions. The sensors are labelled "high resolution".
What has my attention is the 16bit values that AH show in the settings system. Even if you have 8 bit sensors it shows 16 bit values (with interpolation).
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Without the detent is there a way of setting deadbands to trigger an action at min or max? I set the max throttle in AH to engage WEP but it does not consistently do so...
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Without the detent is there a way of setting deadbands to trigger an action at min or max? I set the max throttle in AH to engage WEP but it does not consistently do so...
I did the same thing when one of the buttons on my CH throttle started going bad. I got it to work by changing the scaling of the throttle axis in AH. In map controllers.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
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Yes, there are quite a few. My pedals (VKB) are 32-bit and the VKB joystick I've got on order is also 32-bit.
I have Gunfighter+MCG-Pro grip. You're gonna love it. Very precise, and hyper configurable. Thing is..... Once you get to order it! Which will be a seemingly never ending two weeks! I ordered the GF gimbal without a grip last spring as soon as it became available. The MCG-Pro grip was supposed to be on sale by May. That stretched to December. Finally showed up after the new year. Once they ship it, it only takes a week. I guess it's a good problem to have for a small niche company. They make good stuff and they can't seem to make enough of them!
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
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The only problem with the T-16000M stick is that it's only a 16-bit controller.
For a game like ah, anything over 16 bit is an overkill.
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For a game like ah, anything over 16 bit is an overkill.
No it's not.
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I did the same thing when one of the buttons on my CH throttle started going bad. I got it to work by changing the scaling of the throttle axis in AH. In map controllers.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
Did you have it scale to be at 100% throttle while it was set at, say, 80%. Still trying to make this work consistently
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Yeah pretty much like that. Just keep playing with the scaling to find something that works for you.
I found myself flying around on wep a lot when set up this way. It worked but could be hard to keep track of. No detent to push thru on the CH throttle. Button press is easier to remember so I went back to that. Got a new stick that had more buttons and hats than I knew what to do with so that opened up some on the throttle.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
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No it's not.
Yes it is.
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Yes it is.
Say what you want but I can say that after going from a CH fighterstick to a VKB gunfighter my ability to ride the edge of a stall is infinitely improved. Is it the smooth action of the all metal gimbal or the far greater resolution of the controller allowing for finer adjustments or maybe a little bit of both? Without question I'm able to make tiny corrections around the center of travel that were impossible with the CH stick and that is all about the controller. It's a huge difference.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
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Yes it is.
I don't know why you think it is, it's obvious that you've never tried using a 32 bit controller in AH so you don't know that a 32 bit controller offers better precision and control over a 16 bit controller.
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I don't know why you think it is, it's obvious that you've never tried using a 32 bit controller in AH so you don't know that a 32 bit controller offers better precision and control over a 16 bit controller.
Will a 32 bit controller make an average player better than a 16 bit controller? No. Is it more precise. Yes. Overkill? Yes.
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It is absolutely not overkill.
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Will a 32 bit controller make an average player better than a 16 bit controller? No. Is it more precise. Yes. Overkill? Yes.
A player with a 32 bit controller has an advantage over a player using a 16 bit controller. A 32 bit controller offers an accuracy, precision and a range of motion advantage over someone with a 16 bit controller.
When I swapped out by 16 bit CH Pro Pedals for the 32 bit VKB T-Rudder Mk IV, I was blown away by how much more precise and accurate I was in my rudder movements, which translated to being able to make my nose low turns tighter.
Again, make no mistake about it, a player with 32 bit controllers is at an advantage over someone using 16 bit controllers.
There are some videos posted on this forum by Blade that shows the differences between 16 bit controllers and 32 bit controllers, showing how much more precise the 32 bit controllers are.
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I have a set of every HOTAS made pretty much since the 90s and the early TM stuff - including the VKB and Virpil units. The Gunfighter is the most accurate stick I've used, period, and it does make a difference particularly right on the edge - when I fly it's often in the Ki43 which is usually flown right to the edge of its envelope in order to survive and pull in 10-12 kills per hour with it. While CH was forever the stick I'd recommend for AH (since 1999) over the TM WH, all the Saitek stuff, etc, that ended with the newer tech sticks, which allow you to change out springs and cams to emulate that very soft CH movement, and increase accuracy BIG time over the older sticks.
I sort of understand the idea that it may not seem a "huge" difference, especially without comparing 16/32/etc side by side, but as Gale Boetticher said in Breaking Bad - "that 3% may not sound like a lot...but it is". And it is.
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Unless you can accurately state the "resolution" of a 16 bit vs a 32 bit controller and translate that into the throw of each axis, you can't argue it.
A 16 bit controller should have around 65,000 values per axis or -32767 to 32767 for a centered x or y axis.
Then your operating system would have to be capable of resolving those 65,000 values.
Then your game would have to be capable of resolving those 65,000 values.
Then your hand would have to be capable of feeling all 65,000 of the possible increments of each axis.
Half that, twice that..............I'll venture a bet most games have significantly less "steps on an axis" and it's probably 256 or less for aces high.
Can your hand differentiate between pulling the stick to a value of "234 out of 256" and a value of "235 out of 256"?
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Unless you can accurately state the "resolution" of a 16 bit vs a 32 bit controller and translate that into the throw of each axis, you can't argue it.
A 16 bit controller should have around 65,000 values per axis or -32767 to 32767 for a centered x or y axis.
Then your operating system would have to be capable of resolving those 65,000 values.
Then your game would have to be capable of resolving those 65,000 values.
Then your hand would have to be capable of feeling all 65,000 of the possible increments of each axis.
Half that, twice that..............I'll venture a bet most games have significantly less "steps on an axis" and it's probably 256 or less for aces high.
Can your hand differentiate between pulling the stick to a value of "234 out of 256" and a value of "235 out of 256"?
Fair enough, you could be correct that the difference in effect in terms of the "numbers" might be difficult to distinguish, but unless you've physically tried both side by side, it's difficult to explain the increased precision in words. I had a local sim/DCS player buy my first T50 from me he was that impressed with it compared to his former 16 bit hotas - my 2nd T50 should be here next week, I'm going to do some tests such as Blade did before with the VKB and Virpil sticks vs the T160000 (which I'll have to buy still, as I just bought the TWCS throttle and not that stick). Like I said though, the numbers and graphs only tell a part of the story, you truly can't appreciate the difference until you'll using it, and for example trying to hold that rope/rudder or tight bank riding a possible stall. I'll compared the other commonly used hotas around here like the X55, Cougar, Warthog, and CH Fighter/Combat sticks as well.
IMO the new 32bit controller sticks do have other attributes which affect their increased precision and accuracy, most of which resides in the design and operation of their gimbal/movement system. Take apart both the Virpil T50 and the VKB Gunfighter, and you'll see why the sensors and boards they use are part of a team, and while no doubt provide an improvement, the materials, design, and care put into the hardware bottom end of the sticks - the most important I think - is pretty apparent.
Blade did some tests a few years ago with earlier VKB Black Mamba units, they've only improved since then.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,371364.0.html