Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: oboe on February 21, 2017, 11:20:17 AM
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The P-51's forte was really long-range escort - but, the British practiced night bombing, so no escort was needed (or even practical?). Wiki says the British used almost 1000 Bs and Cs (Mustang Mark III) and over 800 Ds (Mark IV). How did they use them? The only thing I can find is low level fighter sweeps with the Mustang Mark I and II due to its limited high altitude performance, and hunting V1 sites.
So what did they do with all those Mustangs? Did the RAF use any in the Pacific Theater?
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Primary RAF use was as a fighter bomber. Those "Rhubarb" attacks on Germany, tactical recon, etc. The Aussies used them in the Pacific and had a license to build them. I think the war ended before they truly ramped that up.
The CA-15 was a sort of Aussie "Super Mustang" that got the axe due to jet technology. It was a ground-up design.
As for British use in the Pacific I am drawing a blank.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/CA-15.jpg)
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RAF also used Mustang Mk III and IV (the British names for the P-51B and D) as interceptors during the baby blitz and against doodlebugs.
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The RAF Allison Mustangs were also used in the Circus raids due to their good low alt performance.
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The first service use of the Mustang Mk 1 was in July of 1942 (delayed since April for personnel training). Squadron 2 took sixteen Mustangs into the Ruhr area to harass shipping and rail operations. The first operation of the flight was suppression of a military base in Belgium. Petroleum facilities in Lathan were strafed and then the squadron proceeded to Dortmund. Barges and ore laden shipping on the Ems river were strafed. Finally two large ships were strafed on the Zuider Zee with one ship left ablaze and the other one suffering from a large explosion amid ship. There were no enemy aircraft encountered, and no losses.
British reports indicated that the early Mustangs would out run the FW190A at low altitude, and out turn it at all altitudes.
C/AS Sir Charles Portal advised Air Vice Marshal Slessor that Mustang production in England would be advantageous (didn't happen).
Eventually the RAF would have 21 squadrons of the Mustang Mk 1.
The first use of the Mustang Mk 1A (P-51-1NA) or P-51 Apache (not the later A36 Mustang) was as photo-recon aircraft, and also by the British as ground support.
The eventual adaptation of the Merlin to the Mustang axed all of these variants in favor of focusing production efforts.
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The first service use of the Mustang Mk 1 was in July of 1942 (delayed since April for personnel training). Squadron 2 took sixteen Mustangs into the Ruhr area to harass shipping and rail operations. The first operation of the flight was suppression of a military base in Belgium. Petroleum facilities in Lathan were strafed and then the squadron proceeded to Dortmund. Barges and ore laden shipping on the Ems river were strafed. Finally two large ships were strafed on the Zuider Zee with one ship left ablaze and the other one suffering from a large explosion amid ship. There were no enemy aircraft encountered, and no losses.
British reports indicated that the early Mustangs would out run the FW190A at low altitude, and out turn it at all altitudes.
C/AS Sir Charles Portal advised Air Vice Marshal Slessor that Mustang production in England would be advantageous (didn't happen).
Eventually the RAF would have 21 squadrons of the Mustang Mk 1.
The first use of the Mustang Mk 1A (P-51-1NA) or P-51 Apache (not the later A36 Mustang) was as photo-recon aircraft, and also by the British as ground support.
The eventual adaptation of the Merlin to the Mustang axed all of these variants in favor of focusing production efforts.
Suddenly I want the P-51A and A-36A in the game. A low altitude fighter sweep to harass enemy shipping and rail operations sounds like loads of fun! 'course when could use enemy shipping and rail operations in the game, too.
Just wondering what the British did with their Merlin-powered Mustangs. Here they had a superb high altitude, long-range escort fighter, but really no need to use it as such. Did they just continue low level attack/penetration raids with them?
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Did the Brits ever fly P-47s?
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Did the Brits ever fly P-47s?
I know the Aussies did.
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RAF used the Thunderbolt in Burma. AH has some RAF P-47 skins. The Mustang for them I believe was solely in the ETO and it was used as a tactical fighter, recce and escort.
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RAF also used P51s to escort day operations by medium bombers and other attack planes. Most noteable were long range Coastal Command operations, in Norway for example. Escorting photo recce missions was also one of their jobs.
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Did the Brits ever fly P-47s?
The Royal Air Force was supplied with a total of 830 P-47Ds. In RAF service, the "razorback" P-47D was known as the Thunderbolt I and the "bubble canopy" P-47D was known as Thunderbolt II. Thunderbolt Is were delivered in two batches--serials FL731 to FL850 and HB962 to HD181. They were delivered to the RAF from the P-47D-22-RE production blocks. The "bubble-topped" Thunderbolt II fighters were from the P-47D-25/-30-RE and the P-47D-30/-40-RA production blocks, and four main batches were delivered--serials HD182 to HD301, KJ128 to KJ367, KL168 to KL347, and KL838 to KL976. A few aircraft in the last two batches were equipped with the dorsal fin strake.
The RAF Thunderbolts were evaluated in Europe, but most of them were shipped to the CBI theatre, where they fought against the Japanese. The following RAF squadrons --the 5th, 30th, 79th, 123rd (later became 81), 134th (later became 131), 135th (later became 615th ), 146th (later became 42nd), 258th and 261st Squadrons in 1944, and the 34th, 42nd, 60th, 81st, 113th, 131st and 615th Squadrons in 1945. However, many of these late arrivals were not in time to see any action. One of the first RAF squadrons to see action was the 5th Squadron, which was based in Burma and which had previously flown Mohawks and Hurricanes. They flew patrols under the direction of visual ground posts and caused tremendous damage among Japanese troops and supply lines.
Following V-J Day, most of the Thunderbolts rapidly disappeared from RAF squadrons, which were either disbanded or were reequipped with British-built aircraft. The last RAF squadron (No 60) disposed of their Thunderbolts in October of 1946.
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Suddenly I want the P-51A and A-36A in the game. A low altitude fighter sweep to harass enemy shipping and rail operations sounds like loads of fun! 'course when could use enemy shipping and rail operations in the game, too.
Just wondering what the British did with their Merlin-powered Mustangs. Here they had a superb high altitude, long-range escort fighter, but really no need to use it as such. Did they just continue low level attack/penetration raids with them?
And you must also consider that while the early ponies could match the speed of early 190:s and the 109G-2 it will not match the opposition it will face in the MA. And there are several planes that can fly low level ground attack missions with greater success
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And you must also consider that while the early ponies could match the speed of early 190:s and the 109G-2 it will not match the opposition it will face in the MA. And there are several planes that can fly low level ground attack missions with greater success
Frankly, you don't know that. Nothing could dive bomb with the accuracy of the A-36 for many years to come.
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I know the Aussies did.
Kind of sort of on that point.
No RAAF squadron ever flew P-47's.
There were several RAF squadrons that were full of Australian personal that did.
In the CBI theater you had No 258 Squadron, Royal Air Force for example plus they had a lot New Zealand personal as well.
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Kind of sort of on that point.
No RAAF squadron ever flew P-47's.
There were several RAF squadrons that were full of Australian personal that did.
In the CBI theater you had No 258 Squadron, Royal Air Force for example plus they had a lot New Zealand personal as well.
I had always thought one of these squadrons was RAAF. My bad.
(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/350/pics/9_18.jpg)
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All RAF and Commonwealth squadrons in the Far East and South-East Asian Theaters eventually used those SEAC roundels. The red was removed and the size reduced for obvious reasons.
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All RAF and Commonwealth squadrons in the Far East and South-East Asian Theaters eventually used those SEAC roundels. The red was removed and the size reduced for obvious reasons.
Yeah...it was just my fuzzy memory that thought at least one unit of Jugs was Australian.
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Suddenly I want the P-51A and A-36A in the game...
Both these aircraft would be good additions to the game. For players who enjoy taking on the late war monsters in lower tier aircraft, they would be perfect. In a midwar main like we used to have or a historical setup, they'd rock.
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Thanks for the info.
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The RAF used the Mustang III and IV in ETO and MTO for recon, escort, fighter bomber CAS in both theatres.
At first the RAF preferred not to modify their P-51B-1 and P-51B-5/C-1 with 85 gallon tanks but most were loaned back in late December, 1943 to 9th AF 354FG and 363FG and 357FG at request of Doolittle/Spaatz. Many were modified for the 85 gallon fuselage tank to perform 8th AF Long Range mission. Many were returned in that condition and virtually all the new P-51B-10/C-5 that incorporated the 85 gallon tank at the factory were left in but mostly not used except for long range escort,
The RAF supported 8th AF on several March/April 1944 missions in addition to escorting their own B-25s, etc in daylight. Later, when Harris was coerced to join the daylight campaign against Oli, the RAF preferred RAF Mustangs under their control for tactics - they did not approve of the 8th AF Fighter Group "See the enemy - attack the enemy" but could control their own Mustang squadrons to perform close escort. In the MTO, the roles were similar but I don't recall reading of RAF Mustangs escorting 12th AF medium and light bomber attacks.
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Also remember the escort of Mossies and Beau's to Norway. The Mustang Wing at Peterhead I believe flew those. That was both Mustang III and IV
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First RAF Mustangs were used in armed recon. later used much as USAAC and some squadrons did escort USAAC and RAF bombers.