General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Dobs on March 18, 2017, 10:02:27 AM
Title: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Dobs on March 18, 2017, 10:02:27 AM
Think that 1) smoke trail is too persistent (stays visible too long) and 2) is too "heavy"...
https://youtu.be/ALH2LazrzgE?t=348
You can see the tracers come in his second burst...they are distinctive due to the color of their round, not the heavy smoke trail they leave behind (because their isn't one..it is faint).
Compare to here:
Note the tracer smoke behind the guy firing.... (https://i.imgur.com/UlKyrO6.jpg)
Just my 2 cents...but I think it loses some of the immersion when I see the above.
Dobs
And here we have the Star Wars effect going on.... (https://i.imgur.com/p3soxq4.jpg)
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: captain1ma on March 18, 2017, 10:15:54 AM
I never use tracers, problem solved!
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Dobs on March 18, 2017, 10:23:27 AM
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Becinhu on March 18, 2017, 12:50:06 PM
Dobs you know that isn't tracer smoke....it's counter slips for the margaritas
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: ONTOS on March 18, 2017, 01:17:01 PM
I love the tracers. If you don't, disable them.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Dobs on March 18, 2017, 03:24:12 PM
See rule 4
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: caldera on March 18, 2017, 04:25:23 PM
They don't look so bad in real time. Some kind of compromise, perhaps for less of a processor workload?
Like with propellers, which should be visible in screen shots, but they are only coded to look like they are rotating. I've seen some pictures in which real props look more like AH props, but they are darker and more visible than the AH version.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: bozon on March 19, 2017, 01:38:45 AM
I agree with Dobs, tracer smoke is visible to too long distance and stays too long.
smoke should be visible only to maybe around 200 yards head and fade shortly after the plane passes this distace, so you don't see such a long smoke trails behind you. Tracer light should be visible to a large distance like it is now.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Dobs on March 19, 2017, 08:49:33 AM
See rule #4
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Mister Fork on March 19, 2017, 09:03:50 AM
I agree with Dobs, tracer smoke is visible to too long distance and stays too long.
smoke should be visible only to maybe around 200 yards head and fade shortly after the plane passes this distace, so you don't see such a long smoke trails behind you. Tracer light should be visible to a large distance like it is now.
Tracer burnout is 900 meters if I remember correctly? So it is kinda ridiculous that people are shooting from 1K with the effect they are today.
I'm all for shortening it up so the lazers aren't as effective over actual ACM. :salute
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Dobs on March 20, 2017, 03:52:45 PM
Agreed Oldman. That could be perceived as a putz move bro. What were you hoping to point out Dobs?
That I couldn't find a trace of this guy flying in the last 3 melee rounds...but I did find him in GVs.
Don't know him, don't know his past..don't know that I've seen him online.
The intent of the post was to show why I think tracer smoke is overdone and too persistent. The "no value added crowd" just likes to post it appears.....
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Vinkman on March 20, 2017, 04:01:04 PM
For the record, I like the current tracer smoke.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Mister Fork on March 20, 2017, 04:10:50 PM
The visibility of tracers in real life was dependant on humidity of the air, air temperature, air pressure, time of day, and the visibility in the air. In addition, they're dependant on the type of ammo used (type of incendiary, quality of the round). In Aces High, they're always in the perfect condition that gives an 'added flare.'
Conversely we also don't have contrails at higher altitudes. Again, visibility of contrails dependant exactly the same as tracers.
I like the look.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: bozon on March 21, 2017, 04:12:52 AM
Mr. Fork, tracer light and tracer smoke trail are two different things.
Tracers from heavy machine guns used by infantry are visible to many hundred of meters as "fireflies" even in daylight. They leave very little smoke trail because that would be a very bad thing for infantry. I do not know if the tracers used by planes in WWII used a different burning composition that produced more smoke on purpose. If they did, it would probably be very faint from 800 yards, probably invisible. The tracer light emission was likely still clearly visible.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: nooby52 on March 21, 2017, 09:15:10 AM
Mr. Fork, tracer light and tracer smoke trail are two different things.
Tracers from heavy machine guns used by infantry are visible to many hundred of meters as "fireflies" even in daylight. They leave very little smoke trail because that would be a very bad thing for infantry. I do not know if the tracers used by planes in WWII used a different burning composition that produced more smoke on purpose. If they did, it would probably be very faint from 800 yards, probably invisible. The tracer light emission was likely still clearly visible.
I liked the tracer fire in "FURY", and I like the tracer smoke in this game.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Oldman731 on March 21, 2017, 01:46:02 PM
That I couldn't find a trace of this guy flying in the last 3 melee rounds...but I did find him in GVs.
Don't know him, don't know his past..don't know that I've seen him online.
Then allow me to introduce him. Jaeger1 has flown in AH for a decade (more?). One of the original JG11 members, he stepped forward to help run the AvA arena six or seven years ago. He, Jimson, Easyscor, USRanger and others have struggled to keep that arena open and interesting, a truly thankless task, let me tell you. I have never seen a dark side of Jaeger1, no matter what gets thrown at him. It is unremarkable that you observed only GV scores if you only checked back a few tours; the AvA has been featuring a GV-oriented series of trial-and-error events.
He often throws light-hearted posts into threads - such as the one that prompted you to investigate scores. I hope you two get along well.
- oldman
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Dobs on March 21, 2017, 02:04:47 PM
Then allow me to introduce him. Jaeger1 has flown in AH for a decade (more?). One of the original JG11 members, he stepped forward to help run the AvA arena six or seven years ago. He, Jimson, Easyscor, USRanger and others have struggled to keep that arena open and interesting, a truly thankless task, let me tell you. I have never seen a dark side of Jaeger1, no matter what gets thrown at him. It is unremarkable that you observed only GV scores if you only checked back a few tours; the AvA has been featuring a GV-oriented series of trial-and-error events.
He often throws light-hearted posts into threads - such as the one that prompted you to investigate scores. I hope you two get along well.
- oldman
Thank you for the intro and thank you to Jaeger for all of his hard work and time to make the game better, <S>!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: TheBug on March 21, 2017, 02:53:16 PM
Although it is a small detail and I also no longer have a vested interest, but just to be clear Jaeger was never in JG11. I believe you are referring to JG54. And it is also lucky for us that he is not one of the originals.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Mister Fork on March 21, 2017, 06:26:51 PM
Although it is a small detail and I also no longer have a vested interest, but just to be clear Jaeger was never in JG11. I believe you are referring to JG54. And it is also lucky for us that he is not one of the originals.
correct - he helped found JG54 with myself and ( heaven forbid I mention his name Storch) waaay back before Oldman and I started the Gunfighters. Not sure of the history of JG-11 Bug. And when OM and I retired as admins of the AvA he took over - all-in approach!
Dobs - :salute
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Creton on March 21, 2017, 07:36:35 PM
Then allow me to introduce him. Jaeger1 has flown in AH for a decade (more?). One of the original JG11 members, he stepped forward to help run the AvA arena six or seven years ago. He, Jimson, Easyscor, USRanger and others have struggled to keep that arena open and interesting, a truly thankless task, let me tell you. I have never seen a dark side of Jaeger1, no matter what gets thrown at him. It is unremarkable that you observed only GV scores if you only checked back a few tours; the AvA has been featuring a GV-oriented series of trial-and-error events.
He often throws light-hearted posts into threads - such as the one that prompted you to investigate scores. I hope you two get along well.
- oldman
If this was an attempt at a light heartedness, then it falls way short. 1: Jager had no way of knowing he would get his stats published, so he was by proxy, inferring he flew AC. 2: Dobs has no way of knowing Jager was in AVA doing GV stuff all the time, so pulling his stats strengthened the point of Jagers comment being of nonvalue in the thread. 3: Dobs has no way of knowing who/what/when or even how long Jager has played. 4: Great for Jager to have been CM of the AVA arena, I was a CM for quiet sometime myself over a decade ago. It does have perks. 5: Thanks for being a White Knight for another player, I guess. Cudos 6: If Jager was jesting as you claim, then Dobs reply was a perfect Jest back at Jager and thus doesn't warrant your disapproval. 7: Know your facts about players before you attempt to enlighten NEWER players. 8: Why wouldn't they get along? And are you gonna referee them until they do? They don't seem to actually have a problem with each other. 9: Tracers on or tracers off isn't the topic of the thread, the thread is about accuracy in graphics. 10: Have a good day and I am sure you will lose respect for me. OH, who were you again?
CRETON 2000-2017
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Shuffler on March 22, 2017, 08:07:18 AM
LOL this whole thread has blown up and I still do not use tracers. Have not for more than 15 years. The tracers were always distracting to me.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Mister Fork on March 22, 2017, 11:28:48 AM
Getting back on track - there are three sides to this?
1. If you don't like the tracer effects, you 'can' just turn them off. Problem solved. :airplane: :cool:
2. If you like the tracer effects, leave them on because they're fine or you can live with it. :rock :aok
3. If you don't like the tracer effects, but like the tracer bullet tracking, well, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. You're essentially in a constant state of purgatory. Or hell. (depending how much you hate the tracer effects). :joystick: :bhead
Interesting dilemma with no easy answer. :confused:
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: SlipKnt on March 22, 2017, 11:34:05 AM
Tracers from heavy machine guns used by infantry are visible to many hundred of meters as "fireflies" even in daylight. They leave very little smoke trail because that would be a very bad thing for infantry.
As a grunt and having been a M249 SAW gunner once upon a time in my life. Training at the range, I used tracers. In combat, I remove them. No way I wanted to be seen (traced back to point of origin).
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Mister Fork on March 22, 2017, 11:48:46 AM
As a grunt and having been a M249 SAW gunner once upon a time in my life. Training at the range, I used tracers. In combat, I remove them. No way I wanted to be seen (traced back to point of origin).
+1 Wonderful LMG. We (in Canada) had the 'C-9' fitted with the 3.4x ELCAN C79 telescopic sight - she's a beaut and a beast. What I found to be a PITA was that in addition to being assigned a M249, we also had our regular issue C-7 (M-16) - had to huck that, couple of boxes of ammo in my ruck, and then 150-200 rounds for the M-16. Ugh. Thank-god I was a big lad back then (was maybe also why they assigned one to me regularly).
I didn't think to check the boxes and remove the tracer rounds. Then again, I never fired one at an actual enemy force to be concerned about someone (snipers) tracing my shooting position. That, is a good idea.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: JunkyII on March 22, 2017, 12:49:57 PM
I was never worried about the tracers giving away my position, I was more focused on accurate fire keeping their head down so I could manuever.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: 10thmd on March 22, 2017, 12:52:48 PM
As a grunt and having been a M249 SAW gunner once upon a time in my life. Training at the range, I used tracers. In combat, I remove them. No way I wanted to be seen (traced back to point of origin).
As a grunt and having been a M249 SAW gunner once upon a time in my life. Training at the range, I used tracers. In combat, I kept using them.I mean the dust kicked up whenever I opened up with Clarice already had a big here I am factor. Even had a belt I had made of nothing but tracers. It was hilarious when I shot that one off.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Shuffler on March 22, 2017, 01:03:05 PM
In a P 38 with guns all on the nose in front of the pilot it can obscure your view. That is why I do not use it.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: JunkyII on March 22, 2017, 01:22:17 PM
As a grunt and having been a M249 SAW gunner once upon a time in my life. Training at the range, I used tracers. In combat, I kept using them.I mean the dust kicked up whenever I opened up with Clarice already had a big here I am factor. Even had a belt I had made of nothing but tracers. It was hilarious when I shot that one off.
As a Team Leader I had a magazine of tracer rounds to point out targets...Joe can't see crap behind his gun.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: bozon on March 22, 2017, 03:52:03 PM
Nice, but to all of the above people, did your tracers leave a visible smoke trail? Mine did not - 5.56, 7.62 certainly did not, 0.5 I think not, but dont remember as clearly. It was 20 years ago.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Creton on March 22, 2017, 04:05:05 PM
With tracers on, it is easier to "walk" your rounds into the target. I believe that the human mind is capable of compensating for drop and deflection for bullet drop and predicting the trajectory with tracers off. It does take some time for you to get proficient in shooting with tracers off, but a person will eventually get it figured out.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: The Fugitive on March 22, 2017, 04:43:09 PM
As a grunt and having been a M249 SAW gunner once upon a time in my life. Training at the range, I used tracers. In combat, I kept using them.I mean the dust kicked up whenever I opened up with Clarice already had a big here I am factor. Even had a belt I had made of nothing but tracers. It was hilarious when I shot that one off.
And how much smoke followed the rounds to the target? Or was the only smoke the smoke that you got from the round going off?
Thats what I think Dobs is talking about here, not the tracer it self. What we have is a long tail attached to the tracer rounds dragging out behind the round and if the smoke was a different color would look like StarWars lazer fire.
I'd like to see the "tail" shortened up alot. It would still give me the tracers to "walk" my rounds in, but wouldn't obscure the target I was trying to hit.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: colmbo on March 22, 2017, 08:35:24 PM
Nice, but to all of the above people, did your tracers leave a visible smoke trail? Mine did not - 5.56, 7.62 certainly did not, 0.5 I think not, but dont remember as clearly. It was 20 years ago.
True. 5.56 and 7.62 don't leave smoke trails.
I don't remember if the 50 cal did or not.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Dobs on March 23, 2017, 11:04:40 AM
And how much smoke followed the rounds to the target? Or was the only smoke the smoke that you got from the round going off?
Thats what I think Dobs is talking about here, not the tracer it self. What we have is a long tail attached to the tracer rounds dragging out behind the round and if the smoke was a different color would look like StarWars lazer fire.
I'd like to see the "tail" shortened up alot. It would still give me the tracers to "walk" my rounds in, but wouldn't obscure the target I was trying to hit.
Fugitive nailed it....6 months into the game, I'm not good enough to NOT use tracers. But the smoke trail is too long (persistent was what I said.....but long works :)) and too "heavy"/visible. Was my only point....The picture shows it behind dawger..
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: 10thmd on March 23, 2017, 11:19:21 AM
5.56 and 7.62 tracers leave no smoke trail that is visible at ground lvl for sure.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: JunkyII on March 23, 2017, 11:59:54 AM
Pretty good example of tracers...I know up in the heavens they might have a trail behind them but at 5-10K feet ASL which is probably the height these guys are at there isn't any...except in probably very rare weather occasions
BTW the low pitched gun firing more thumps then smacks is the M2...but don't confuse it with the M240B and SAW which are also both firing.
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: Dobs on March 23, 2017, 12:10:03 PM
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: SlipKnt on March 23, 2017, 02:30:22 PM
Pretty good example of tracers...I know up in the heavens they might have a trail behind them but at 5-10K feet ASL which is probably the height these guys are at there isn't any...except in probably very rare weather occasions
BTW the low pitched gun firing more thumps then smacks is the M2...but don't confuse it with the M240B and SAW which are also both firing.
Ummmmm... yeah!!! That just excited me... ...sexually!!! :rock
Title: Re: I think the tracer smoke is too heavy and set with persistence too high....
Post by: JunkyII on March 24, 2017, 11:13:55 PM