General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: nugetx on May 12, 2017, 02:06:47 AM
Title: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 12, 2017, 02:06:47 AM
Hello, I would like to get into this game but there are a few points which prevent me from doing so, Dear Developers, help me help you make some money.
1) Payment options
Not everyone is using credit card online, there are other alternatives, which could be potentialy added? like:
Paysafecard - www.paysafecard.com (you purchase a coupon at your local retailer and pay with it online)
bmt micro - https://www.bmtmicro.com/ (a reseller that provides many alternate payment options [paysafecard also] )
2) Add the game on Steam ?
Everyone using the internet and playing games probably knows steam by now, Steam offers a lot of payment options and would bring a lot of new players, steam exposure is always huge.
See a new game in early access called Playerunknown Battlegrounds, it's sold over 2 million in first week after opening on steam.
You can see it here in top played games on steam
http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
3) The monthly subscription
Last but not least a lot of people in 2017 simply do not want to pay monthly subscription, a lot of online games today are free to play, i know this is a business for developers so maybe just make it buy to play?
60$ one time fee and micro transactions for skins for example.
If those points would be addressed, i bet the player base would increase immensely because there is a crowd for this type of game, there are a lot of people like me who would like to play this but one of those points which i listed prevent them from playing.There is no other game like Aces High currently on the market available, Hitechcreations can draw in the big userbase, but it needs to do some changes, this is first and foremost an online game - so the more players the better for everyone devs and players.
Thanks for reading.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: 1stpar3 on May 12, 2017, 03:10:54 AM
Well the Steam option is a definite NO. Its been discussed more than a few times. I cant really remember why its a no, so cant elaborate on that issue. As too using coupons purchased at a retailer...I use a pre paid debit card for my fees. Should be pretty much the same thing? On the subscription, I would be more than happy to pay your first fee :aok Honestly! I am fairly confident that you would get hooked, and we need all the new players we can get :rock
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nooby52 on May 12, 2017, 06:54:52 AM
Great suggestions Nugetx! I mean, Dale and company are really new to this online gaming thing and they prolly never considered any other payment/ business development options. :rofl :bolt:
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: DubiousKB on May 12, 2017, 10:01:12 AM
I think steam wants their grubby fingers in the cookie jar and would charge HTC and co to host or something like that... Steam is still a business too...
IIRC, if it was on steam, the cost would go up. I thought it was a good idea to be a lamprey on the big shark with steam too, but what do I know. I lawndart trying to kill cynide. :banana:
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Skuzzy on May 12, 2017, 10:18:28 AM
We do accept Paypal as an option as well.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Hungry on May 12, 2017, 10:19:17 AM
Great suggestions Nugetx! I mean, Dale and company are really new to this online gaming thing and they prolly never considered any other payment/ business development options. :rofl :bolt:
Some things never change :bhead the OP is looking for alternatives not sarcasm, i wish there was an emoticon of an ostrich with his head in the sand
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: bustr on May 12, 2017, 10:45:23 AM
His syntax style reminds me of several players who have been through the game already, and under their real ID presented similar arguments to get Hitech ultimately to change the subscription model to FTP for the MA. Paypal as an option can be found by calling HTC, or asking here in the forums. Hungry, FTP is always the ultimate goal of these boiler plate wishes when you break down the parenthetics of the presentation, as I suspect you are interested in also by defending the OP.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Zoney on May 12, 2017, 11:03:51 AM
Some things never change :bhead the OP is looking for alternatives not sarcasm, i wish there was an emoticon of an ostrich with his head in the sand
You're pretty sure he's just a brand new guy with his first post and "looking for alternatives" like you said? It's not possible that it is just a troll that has opened up another account just to pound that drum and make sure his opinion which he has most likely stated so many times that it no longer has an impact. So you can tell that from his first post can ya? The emoticon you are asking for with an ostrich's head in the sand would fit you well if that's the case, sir.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Hungry on May 12, 2017, 11:12:07 AM
His syntax style reminds me of several players who have been through the game already, and under their real ID presented similar arguments to get Hitech ultimately to change the subscription model to FTP for the MA. Paypal as an option can be found by calling HTC, or asking here in the forums. Hungry, FTP is always the ultimate goal of these boiler plate wishes when you break down the parenthetics of the presentation, as I suspect you are interested in also by defending the OP.
I defend his right to suggest alternatives without getting jumped on, I've paid way more than I've played the payment method is of no concern to me personally.
Whether or not he's a troll, who knows, but what does that say in itself, the opinion cant be raised by a "normal" player without disdain so they have to sneak their way in?
Dear Hitech
Wishlist
Please speak for yourself, some players on these boards represent them selves as you which is doing you a disservice in some cases
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Hungry on May 12, 2017, 11:14:34 AM
You're pretty sure he's just a brand new guy with his first post and "looking for alternatives" like you said? It's not possible that it is just a troll that has opened up another account just to pound that drum and make sure his opinion which he has most likely stated so many times that it no longer has an impact. So you can tell that from his first post can ya? The emoticon you are asking for with an ostrich's head in the sand would fit you well if that's the case, sir.
see the post above, don't kid yourself the ostrich would fit many here who come across as this being their game not Hitechs
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Wiley on May 12, 2017, 11:21:17 AM
see the post above, don't kid yourself the ostrich would fit many here who come across as this being their game not Hitechs
The payment options are... whatever. But HTC's mentioned in the past they're not keen on Steam, and I believe the gist of his comment on F2P was something along the lines of, "If I created an F2P game, it would not look anything like this one."
I don't know what this game would look like if it went F2P. Based on most F2P games I've played, it's not a clear cut case of "It would be way better."
Although I think HTC could save themselves a lot of storage in the Wishlist forum if they just had a sticky at the top with the title, "Things that aren't going to happen." Like the nuke among other things. At least then people could link it instead of either digging through old posts or telling the new guy to do so.
Wiley.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: bustr on May 12, 2017, 11:25:17 AM
Hungry,
I'm betting it's Violator and this is boiler plate from every other time he wants Hitech to make the MA FTP.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Hungry on May 12, 2017, 11:39:16 AM
I'm betting it's Violator and this is boiler plate from every other time he wants Hitech to make the MA FTP.
Could be I shouldn't have poked my nose into it, on the other hand if it was a new player....... that's why policy decisions should be answered by Hitech personnel only
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Zoney on May 12, 2017, 11:53:46 AM
Could be I shouldn't have poked my nose into it, on the other hand if it was a new player....... that's why policy decisions should be answered by Hitech personnel only
I, like you are just giving my opinion and I do not assume to speak for anyone, including HiTech.
Could be I shouldn't have poked my nose into it, on the other hand if it was a new player....... that's why policy decisions should be answered by Hitech personnel only
This is what happens when someone posts this sort of thread on the boards. He could call the office or email without seeing any feedback from the current players of AH.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Wiley on May 12, 2017, 12:12:36 PM
At the end of the day, anything after the first post in a thread in the wishlist forums that doesn't come from HTC is essentially noise. People seem to forget that.
Wiley.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Zoney on May 12, 2017, 12:40:16 PM
At the end of the day, anything after the first post in a thread in the wishlist forums that doesn't come from HTC is essentially noise. People seem to forget that.
Wiley.
Good point.
Edit:
In retrospect, after reading my posts, I definitely come off too harsh and for that, I apologize Hungry :salute
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 12, 2017, 01:30:43 PM
I think steam wants their grubby fingers in the cookie jar and would charge HTC and co to host or something like that... Steam is still a business too...
Ofcourse, but do math on having influx of hundred of players even with steam taking that 30% vs 30 on MA what i saw yesterday.
besides there are people who will never play it because of the reasons stated....... not having it on steam is just potential money wasted, because those that would not want, could still play it the normal way from this site, and those that want it, could play it via steam.
Having more options is always better and not negative.
There is a game called 'Town of Salem' it is a f2p game on the main website, but on steam it costs 10$ and people are buying it ! even though its f2p on own website. It currently has 1000 steam players only and that is not counting the players that also play the f2p from website
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Zoney on May 12, 2017, 01:51:58 PM
That's awesome Nugetx. Thanks for your opinion. I'm glad you are here and playing.
So how is the flying and fighting going for you? Are you getting the needed help to help you be happy here?
I was hoping your in-game handle was also "nugetx" but that does not seem to be the case. Please, who are you in-game ?
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: puller on May 12, 2017, 02:18:59 PM
This is what happens when someone posts this sort of thread on the boards. He could call the office or email without seeing any feedback from the current players of AH.
:aok
Steam? -1
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Randall172 on May 12, 2017, 03:21:59 PM
100% of nothing is less than 70% something :bhead
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 12, 2017, 05:00:36 PM
Going to Steam would also require making a new version of AH for Steam and then having to essentially support two versions of AH3 in addition to the 30% Steam takes on all transactions.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 12, 2017, 05:20:06 PM
I'm sure Violator will get a kick outta this... :aok
Hehe, he could never find an example of me actually saying anything close to this. Just another reason how he still doesn't understand what I'm talking about. No offense, bustr.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Zoney on May 12, 2017, 06:06:22 PM
There is going to be no Steam version of the game...
This is a subscription game...where you pay a monthly fee for everything in-game...there are going to be no microtransactions...your not going to pay for skins or anything else...your not going to pay for better planes or different guns or ammo...
Please search Hitech's posts and you will see the various reasons other than the reason AkAk gave in the thread I linked above...
Your subscription gives you access to everything...what more could you ask for...I know that if this was my game, I would not like the idea of a company skimming off the top just so it can be downloadable somewhere else...
-1
Title: Re: Steam
Post by: The Fugitive on May 15, 2017, 10:50:33 AM
a better wish might be to go to the steam page and wish that they make a "promotional " page where a company like HTC could have their game listed and steam would make money based on the click though to the HTC page.
Title: Re: Steam
Post by: Zoney on May 15, 2017, 11:43:32 AM
nugetx, I asked earlier and maybe you missed it, I was hoping you would share your in game handle/name with us? Do you normally fly rooks, bish or knights?
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: AAIK on May 15, 2017, 12:50:03 PM
Maybe the reality is that it wont have any popularity if put on steam and HT is afraid of that happening.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: DubiousKB on May 15, 2017, 12:54:25 PM
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Steam would bring in many new players, especially if it were part of the steam sales. Those sales are the sole reason many players have a large game library.
I'd rather have 300 people with it on their computers checking it out for 2 weeks than 10 players online at all times...
Fresh meat!!!!!
If you're not innovating you're dying... And that's the way the cookie crumbles......
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 15, 2017, 02:37:40 PM
Steam would bring in many new players, especially if it were part of the steam sales. Those sales are the sole reason many players have a large game library.
Being on Steam does not guarantee increased numbers, it didn't work for Warbirds.
Title: Re: Steam
Post by: Vudu15 on May 15, 2017, 09:57:10 PM
most likely he fly's troll....
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 16, 2017, 01:24:24 AM
Steam would bring in many new players, especially if it were part of the steam sales. Those sales are the sole reason many players have a large game library.
I'd rather have 300 people with it on their computers checking it out for 2 weeks than 10 players online at all times...
Fresh meat!!!!!
If you're not innovating you're dying... And that's the way the cookie crumbles......
:aok
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 16, 2017, 01:30:18 AM
You can play the game without Steam. Don't see why you're not able to play it without having to use Steam.
Because a lot of people like me don't use credit card or paypal but alternative forms of payment which steam provides them.
Quote
Actually it's not, especially for small indie game developers like HTC.
Unpopular games on steam on average have 275,602 copies sold. The lowest with 5,658 and the highest with 1,201,136
you can see it all on www.steamspy.com.
Warbirds which is pretty much dead and you could call it very unpopular have 4,756 copies sold and stats shows that in the last 2 weeks it had 1700 players ! (probably playing single player as multiplayer there is pretty much dead). Just go and input 'warbirds' in steamspy page if you don't believe me.
Title: Re: Steam
Post by: Lusche on May 16, 2017, 05:02:17 AM
Actually it's not, especially for small indie game developers like HTC.
This interests me. Not knowing a ton about it, it seems to me like a boon to small developers. Massive exposure and distribution. The 30% off the top and being forced into whatever sales they do (iirc) are the only downsides I see. What am I missing?
Wiley.
Title: Re: Steam
Post by: JimmyD3 on May 16, 2017, 10:59:51 AM
It wouldn't surprise me at all if -496 people had logged into WBs in the last 2 weeks.
This interests me. Not knowing a ton about it, it seems to me like a boon to small developers. Massive exposure and distribution. The 30% off the top and being forced into whatever sales they do (iirc) are the only downsides I see. What am I missing?
Wiley.
Independence
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: lunatic1 on May 16, 2017, 02:25:06 PM
Cause and Effect-cause if HiTech went with a company like steam the effect he would have to raise our subscription prices...
First, I'm not particularly pro-steam, but I'm just looking at the idea objectively. Just hypothetically, a few hundred new subs at $10.50 is still a substantial increase in cash flow.
Quote
not onlt that Stream I would believe try to Tell HiTech how to run HIS game..too make it like WOT WOW WT.
What on earth would cause that? That I know of Steam doesn't have anything to do with how games are run. Am I just unaware that it happens?
Quote
Plus if by some weird deal he did go with stream theres no guarantee that it would bring in more players.
Agreed. I could see it fizzling quite badly what with people there being used to AAA small arena games.
Wiley.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 16, 2017, 04:39:21 PM
This does not make any sense. If they cannot play the current version, they would not be able to play a Steam version either.
umm you can purchase games on steam with paysafecard or bitcoin, something which you cannot do here. I cannot pay for Aces High here, because i cannot pay with paysafecard.
Quote
ot onlt that Stream I would believe try to Tell HiTech how to run HIS game..too make it like WOT WOW WT.
pls do not spread false info. Steam is not a publisher that finaces production like electronic arts for example. Steam is just a distribution platform. They have no input on the game you make.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 16, 2017, 04:46:36 PM
Quote
Agreed. I could see it fizzling quite badly what with people there being used to AAA small arena games.
Wiley.
Look at War thunder, it's an arcade flight sim without arena and it has currently 14,000 players at peak today. (steam stats).
It means people want a flight sim, but there aren't any.
by not being on steam Aces High is shooting itself in the foot imo
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Wiley on May 16, 2017, 04:55:14 PM
Look at War thunder, it's an arcade flight sim without arena and it has currently 14,000 players at peak today. (steam stats).
It means people want a flight sim, but there aren't any.
by not being on steam Aces High is shooting itself in the foot imo
Not that simple. The comparison that's about the most accurate would be Planetside 2 vs Counterstrike. PS2's got gameplay in the vicinity of AH. Counterstrike's pretty similar to WT. PS2 ~2000 people at the moment. Counterstrike GO ~380k.
If the percentages carried over, AH would gain about 73 people. Whoopee. That also doesn't take into account the fact that both of those other games don't have a subscription.
Wiley.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 16, 2017, 05:00:19 PM
Not that simple. The comparison that's about the most accurate would be Planetside 2 vs Counterstrike. PS2's got gameplay in the vicinity of AH. Counterstrike's pretty similar to WT. PS2 ~2000 people at the moment. Counterstrike GO ~380k.
If the percentages carried over, AH would gain about 73 people. Whoopee. That also doesn't take into account the fact that both of those other games don't have a subscription.
Wiley.
but for a game like planetside 2 you have to count also the players that play the version without steam(because everyone play together, those with steam and without, it's the same server), CSGO is steam only (as it's a valve game).
The same would be with AH as with planetside 2, unless it would want to fully migrate to steam.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Wiley on May 16, 2017, 05:08:39 PM
but for a game like planetside 2 you have to count also the players that play the version without steam(because everyone play together, those with steam and without, it's the same server), CSGO is steam only (as it's a valve game).
The same would be with AH as with planetside 2, unless it would want to fully migrate to steam.
So that bumps the PS2 numbers by about 1000. Still, no subscription, which is a killer for the vast majority of people.
Wiley.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 16, 2017, 05:10:17 PM
Your numbers show that there are more steam players than players from the main website :)
Touche, but it's still not apples to apples.
Wiley.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: JimmyD3 on May 16, 2017, 08:18:35 PM
Just another Troll. :bolt:
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 17, 2017, 01:19:38 AM
I'm just a guy who would like to play but cannot.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: puller on May 17, 2017, 07:59:47 AM
So what you are telling us is that you have no money....but you have some sort of fake internet currency that means absolutely nothing in the real world...
In having this fake currency you think HTC should either accept this currency or put the game on steam NOTE:(I have still never even googled steam...don't really care what it is)
You know you can download the game and play for free in the free arenas under the free tab in game right??? All you have to do is have an account...
Your trolling other players and the developer are not going to get you anywhere...I still do not understand, other than the fact you have no money, why you can't play the game???
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: JimmyD3 on May 17, 2017, 09:46:07 AM
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: bustr on May 17, 2017, 11:59:27 AM
From PaySafe:
Secure Information – When you buy a Paysafecard, you do not hook it to any type of bank account, credit card, or other personal information at all. In fact, all Paysafecards are bought with cash and you are given a voucher that will allow you to spend the money on your Paysafecard online without needing to enter in any information at all. If a site that you are using is then compromised, you never have to worry about your information getting into the wrong hands.
Cash - Means he can play Aces High if he wants to.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: hitech on May 17, 2017, 12:11:40 PM
Secure Information – When you buy a Paysafecard, you do not hook it to any type of bank account, credit card, or other personal information at all. In fact, all Paysafecards are bought with cash and you are given a voucher that will allow you to spend the money on your Paysafecard online without needing to enter in any information at all. If a site that you are using is then compromised, you never have to worry about your information getting into the wrong hands.
Cash - Means he can play Aces High if he wants to.
You can also play ah with check or money order.
HiTech
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Skuzzy on May 17, 2017, 12:17:26 PM
Secure Information – When you buy a Paysafecard, you do not hook it to any type of bank account, credit card, or other personal information at all. In fact, all Paysafecards are bought with cash and you are given a voucher that will allow you to spend the money on your Paysafecard online without needing to enter in any information at all. If a site that you are using is then compromised, you never have to worry about your information getting into the wrong hands.
Cash - Means he can play Aces High if he wants to.
Do not forget about the 15% merchant account transaction fee Paysafe charges and then there is the $7.50 refund fee the player eats on refunds. Does not sound like a good deal to me.
I would think a prepaid debit card would be a better deal.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: guncrasher on May 17, 2017, 12:39:30 PM
where can I go to find time to play? hitech please I pay monthly dues every month but I cannot find the time to play due to real life issues. makes as much sense as nugetx reason for not playing the game.
semp
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2017, 01:56:29 PM
Do not forget about the 15% merchant account transaction fee Paysafe charges and then there is the $7.50 refund fee the player eats on refunds. Does not sound like a good deal to me.
I would think a prepaid debit card would be a better deal.
I too was wondering why he didn't just use a prepaid debit card to play AH.
:salute Sik
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2017, 02:30:11 PM
It requires the verbal consent of an adult. Just guessing.
Was thinking the same thing... but then again I've had strokes :old:
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 18, 2017, 12:49:16 AM
Quote
So what you are telling us is that you have no money....but you have some sort of fake internet currency that means absolutely nothing in the real world...
Please good Sir, read first what is Steam and what is paysafecard....
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 18, 2017, 01:00:20 AM
My good man, it's easiest to pay online with paysafecard in this side of the world.
and those who still don't know. You pay with real cash at your local retailer and purchase a voucher to pay it with it online.
That's why Steam is so popular, because it allows people to pay with what they want - with real cash and not 'fake currency'.
Also Steam user base is huge, 125 million players, so the potential customer is there.
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Skuzzy: Do not forget about the 15% merchant account transaction fee Paysafe charges
Please in front of this audience convince Hitech he wants to give Paysafe a cut of his transactions to accept Paysafe vouchers, or Steam 30%. Or increase the subscription fee past $14.95 to cover the incurred expense. So far you have not given an incentive that Hitech as a business owner in the online gaming industry has not investigated and rejected publicly in these forums over the years. Since you don't want to use the search(research) function before launching your boiler plate post at Hitech. You do get the point his response is no, so what is your purpose past this point other than ego against your audience including Hitech for rejecting you?
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 19, 2017, 01:13:07 AM
Please in front of this audience convince Hitech he wants to give Paysafe a cut of his transactions to accept Paysafe vouchers, or Steam 30%
Well, i'm not here to convince anyone about anything.... just saying why some people cannot play this, because they use different payment methods.
Also imo by having it on Steam 2 birds can be hit with 1 stone, the payment and popularity problem. Look at general discussion the 'player numbers down' thread has 14 pages, it means there is lack of players. Steam is where players today reside, young generation, and lets be honest, games are mostly played by younger people, without credit cards.
If this is worth the 30% of steam? it's not my decision, but if I would make a game I know I would distribute it on steam because it's the place where you make money from games today.There is a crowd on steam who just collects games for the sake of collecting, because they need to have all the games in their library, and then are the trading cards, where people trade cards with each other for real money and the developers and steam get a cut from the sales.
That's all. Peace. Over and out.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 19, 2017, 02:41:00 AM
but if I would make a game I know I would distribute it on steam because it's the place where you make money from games today.
Correction, Steam is the place where Valve makes money. If I was a small developer, I would be hesitant to jump into Steam. While it is probably the most popular form of digital distribution for games, Steam is not very friendly towards small, indie developers. More small, indie developers fail even though they went to Steam than those that succeed.
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There is a crowd on steam who just collects games for the sake of collecting, because they need to have all the games in their library, and then are the trading cards, where people trade cards with each other for real money and the developers and steam get a cut from the sales.
Steam uses a proprietary algorithm to rank their games, and developers have found out ways to exploit it to artificially raise their "ranking" and increase monetary revenue. Just look how some developers are using the trading cards to exploit the algorithm for their games that don't exist and still generate revenue.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 19, 2017, 03:44:12 AM
Quote
Correction, Steam is the place where Valve makes money.
Sure, but for that 30% you get massive exposure..... One would have to do math on how much would a TV commercial cost in this day and age and towards whom it is centralised and then compare it to steam where it's directly marketed towards gamers from the whole world
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Skuzzy on May 19, 2017, 06:33:42 AM
That Paysafe option is not an option. The merchant rates are ridiculous. I thought American Express was bad. but these guys make AMEX look really good.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: bustr on May 19, 2017, 01:56:48 PM
He is not making steam out to be pro HTC in terms of profit as much as his personal desire to not pay HTC directly. And he's being obtuse and does not want to loose an argument because he is pro steam knowing Hitech will not make the move. He is not representing steam very well if he is an employee if they are trying to include Hitech as a subscriber.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Skuzzy on May 19, 2017, 02:43:24 PM
I doubt it bustr. Anyone working in this industry would know those merchant rates are absurd.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: bustr on May 19, 2017, 02:46:08 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Skuzzy on May 19, 2017, 02:51:14 PM
Calm down bustr.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 20, 2017, 02:34:40 AM
He is not making steam out to be pro HTC in terms of profit.
Actualy I am.
Younger crowd who don't own a credit card, can't make money transfer, can't own paypal for the same reason(or people who just don't use them for various reasons), CAN purchase a paysafecard voucher because you buy it like candy at a local shop.
Now, lets say 1000 people for example will get the game on steam,,,, otherwise those 1000 would not play at all for the reason stated above. That is 1000 x 15$ ...... Even with that 30% ..... that is 1000 more players in the game vs 0, how is that not pro HTC ?
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nrshida on May 20, 2017, 04:35:52 AM
that is 1000 more players in the game vs 0, how is that not pro HTC ?
How many additional arenas would be needed to accomodate an additional 1000 players? How would you delineate and manage them fairly and for the long-term health of the game? What do propose HTC does with the large cash injection? In what direction do you propose they develop? Do you suggest HTC becomes more volume-based in philosophy? What percentage of existing, long-term players would be alienated? How do you propose to convert instant gratification, competitive-focussed newcomers to become long-term players? Do you alternatively support a simplification of the simulation to compress the learning curve? Is there a set of conventions all things must converge towards in order to remain successful?
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Skuzzy on May 20, 2017, 05:46:05 AM
Younger crowd who don't own a credit card, can't make money transfer, can't own paypal for the same reason(or people who just don't use them for various reasons), CAN purchase a paysafecard voucher because you buy it like candy at a local shop.
Now, lets say 1000 people for example will get the game on steam,,,, otherwise those 1000 would not play at all for the reason stated above. That is 1000 x 15$ ...... Even with that 30% ..... that is 1000 more players in the game vs 0, how is that not pro HTC ?
This presumes each player does not incur any cost to HTC. That is not realistic.
Again, there is no way we are going to use Paysafe and pay those absurd merchant transaction fees.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 20, 2017, 05:58:37 AM
Wow those are a lot of questions, which i'm not knowledgeable enough to answer, so i'll only adress a few in my amateurish way as i have nothing to do with the industry, it's just a player perspective!
How many additional arenas would be needed to accomodate an additional 1000 players?
I can't realy know how many players would there be, if 100 or 10,000, but they wouldn't play all at the same time, people are from different time zones etc, so everyone could get a share time of play with people from their time zone.Player numbers at the same time in-game would balance themselves out naturaly.
Ofcourse if it would be a big hit there would be a need to increase the capacity.
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What do propose HTC does with the large cash injection?
Expand the server capacity if there would be a need to accomodate extra players? Further the development of the game ?
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In what direction do you propose they develop?
Actualy I had this idea for a fun and historic arena flight sim which I consider to be my 'dream' game, don't know if anyone will agree with me but here it goes:
Main arena Axis vs Allies, 1 map (a replica of Europe for example). Why 1 map? because people enjoy what they are familiar with, and having 1 map would allow everyone to learn everything by heart. All game mechanics as they are now, but have a war that starts in 1939 and ends in 1945. According to the year planes are introduced. For example:
Spitfire I - 1939 109 E4 - 1939 190 A4 - 1942
etc according to logic.
If a side wins the war before the end of 1945, the front is being reset and the fun begins again !
I will illustrate this with a random picture which i loosely found on the internet just to get the point across.
(http://i.imgur.com/uknzJjj.jpg)
Capturing the fields would move the front line in one way or the other.
That would require the game to have more planes to accomodate different years.
I believe this would make the game more fun AND historic ! Because it would make you feel like you are a part of a real war and not only furballing in a p51d vs spit 1 over a crater which no offense is not historicaly accurate at all. Instead you would fight in a 109 E4 vs Spit 1 over england or parts of france or germany. Don't get me wrong, the game is good, I love it ! But I believe it can be even better ! HTC can make this game into something wonderfull because no other developer is even trying to do something like this.
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What percentage of existing, long-term players would be alienated?
None! Everyone would play together, they already know the game.
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How do you propose to convert instant gratification, competitive-focussed newcomers to become long-term players?
Hehe, this is a nice question and the answer is more of a philosophical one, usualy when people grow up they become more patient, but I believe the flight sim crowd is already more patient than the Call of Duty crowd, a good product defends by itself and people would remain for long term.
Hell, if this was on steam and had this Axis vs Allies MA which I hinted at previously, i would get all of my friends to play this and would advertise this everywhere.
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Do you alternatively support a simplification of the simulation to compress the learning curve?
Nope, however some people do not have a joystick and as I understand this game can be played with a mouse, it could be elaborated further that the game can be played only with a mouse. It works as a mouse-joystick as i understand ?
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Is there a set of conventions all things must converge towards in order to remain successful?
Well, I will reply to this with:
Aces High is a good product, but to make it fantastic it needs some changes. Changes are sometimes necessary for growth.
But why i even write this? Because i always liked to play flight sims, and today there are virtualy none, Aces High is probably one of few last arena sims that is still alive, why not breath a breath of fresh life into the o'l gal, make it available to wider community and then some ?
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This presumes each player does not incur any cost to HTC. That is not realistic.
Again, there is no way we are going to use Paysafe and pay those absurd merchant transaction fees.
Thanks for reading anyway.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: FLOOB on May 20, 2017, 06:27:05 AM
Now I don't know wtf is going on. Should I be scared?
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nrshida on May 20, 2017, 07:51:06 AM
An impressive amount of work Nuget, however on a metalevel I was trying to question if you thought perhaps there is also an upper limit to AH player numbers before it loses its character, individuality and distinctiveness. Sure player numbers are slightly low at present, but this game has outlasted an awful lot of competitors.
Have you heard of a motorcar company called Morgan? Interesting parallel.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: NatCigg on May 20, 2017, 11:19:53 AM
the server would crash before the fun would. :old: I would play in the 4th arena. like when we had two arenas, they would filter out the zombie fish leaving a nice pond for my shark to feed. :lol
:old:
:salute
:airplane:
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Hungry on May 20, 2017, 11:34:05 AM
Nugetx I like your concept but my first impression is it would be hard to manage and administrate (code wise)
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Wiley on May 20, 2017, 12:14:13 PM
Nugget. There is already a game that has a main arena with a rotating plane set called Warbird. You should check it out and see how well that idea works.
Wiley.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 20, 2017, 12:52:07 PM
This presumes each player does not incur any cost to HTC. That is not realistic.
Again, there is no way we are going to use Paysafe and pay those absurd merchant transaction fees.
I shudder to think what Paysafe's penalty fees are for invalid charges and charge backs. My company only uses payment vendors so we don't have to keep a player's credit card information in case we get hacked, more to cover our behinds than anything else because some of those vendor fees (like Paysafe) are outrageous. Another thing we noticed when we switched to outside payment vendors was an increase of fraudulent charges.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Zoney on May 20, 2017, 01:08:59 PM
Hell, if this was on steam and had this Axis vs Allies MA which I hinted at previously, i would get all of my friends to play this and would advertise this everywhere.
But why i even write this? Because i always liked to play flight sims, and today there are virtualy none, Aces High is probably one of few last arena sims that is still alive, why not breath a breath of fresh life into the o'l gal, make it available to wider community and then some ?
So, let me see if I have this straight, I am easily confused.
You like playing Aces High, so I must assume you have found some way to pay for it.
You have acknowledged the demise of games like this and don't want to see Aces High go away.
After playing these games you are going to advise HiTech on how to make this game bigger, even though you have just acknowledged the fact that this game has a very long shelf life the way it is run currently, leading us to conclude that HiTech really does know what he is doing.
I appreciate your suggestions but the random throwing out of numbers by you with absolutely no facts to support them gives me pause.
Ok, I got it now, moving on
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Ramesis on May 20, 2017, 04:12:35 PM
How many additional arenas would be needed to accomodate an additional 1000 players? How would you delineate and manage them fairly and for the long-term health of the game? What do propose HTC does with the large cash injection? In what direction do you propose they develop? Do you suggest HTC becomes more volume-based in philosophy? What percentage of existing, long-term players would be alienated? How do you propose to convert instant gratification, competitive-focussed newcomers to become long-term players? Do you alternatively support a simplification of the simulation to compress the learning curve? Is there a set of conventions all things must converge towards in order to remain successful?
+1 :aok
And to add to shidas response above... what would happen to HTC in the long run? Suppose with the injection of money, Steam starts dictating to Dale what he could and could not do with the game Seems to me that just such a scenario was the demise of AW :noid
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 20, 2017, 04:53:12 PM
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, however on a metalevel I was trying to question if you thought perhaps there is also an upper limit to AH player numbers before it loses its character, individuality and distinctiveness. Sure player numbers are slightly low at present, but this game has outlasted an awful lot of competitors.
Upper limit IMO depends on the map size. If everyone would be crammed into one spot it would not be fun, but if the map is big enough with a lot people then it is no problem. However if you mean if the game loses its thing by having a lot of players, i don't think thats possible..... the more players for online games the better for players, because it will live longer.
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Have you heard of a motorcar company called Morgan? Interesting parallel.
That's the first time i hear about it.... but I'm from the other side of the world :P
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Nugetx I like your concept but my first impression is it would be hard to manage and administrate (code wise)
thx, i have no idea about the technical stuff though
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Nugget. There is already a game that has a main arena with a rotating plane set called Warbird. You should check it out and see how well that idea works.
Yea I know Warbirds is dead, but Warbirds is ancient compared to Aces High, the graphics, flight model and damage model are like from 1994.
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You like playing Aces High, so I must assume you have found some way to pay for it.
I played the free trial
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You have acknowledged the demise of games like this and don't want to see Aces High go away.
true
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I appreciate your suggestions but the random throwing out of numbers by you with absolutely no facts to support them gives me pause.
Just giving examples
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And to add to shidas response above... what would happen to HTC in the long run? Suppose with the injection of money, Steam starts dictating to Dale what he could and could not do with the game
Well, looks like Steam is a definite no, but steam does not dictate things to developers, they only distribute the game.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 20, 2017, 05:14:16 PM
btw here is some Q & A from steam
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1. Does Steam only accept games from major publishers, or will you take a game from an indie developer?
Your game doesn't have to come from a big name studio, as long as it's fun we'd love to see it. 2. What do you look for when accepting games for Steam?
Going forward, we’re putting the choice into the hands of customers through Steam Greenlight. You can find about more about Steam Greenlight here. 3. Who sets the price for my game on Steam?
Pricing is very title specific, and we've got a lot of data and experience to help you decide on what the best price is for your title. We'll work with you to figure out pricing. 4. What is your revenue split?
We don't discuss our revenue split publicly. Once your game goes through Steam Greenlight, we'll get to those details. 5. Do the steam royalties apply before or after VAT/country specific taxes?
Taxes are removed before calculating royalties. 6. What is the common payment interval and can we group transactions to minimize banking fees?
We make monthly statements and payments. 7. What other fees come out of my revenue share?
There are some specific adjustments made depending on such things as fraud and returns and these are outlined more fully in our distribution agreement that we will send to you if your game is going on Steam. We do not make deductions for marketing or bandwidth. 8. Do you require exclusivity for titles you sell on Steam?
We think you should get your game in front of as many people as you can, therefore we do not require exclusivity on titles. 9. What are my marketing options on Steam?
We do not sell any of our marketing on Steam. We will work with you to determine the best marketing plan for your title.
http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/FAQ.php
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nrshida on May 21, 2017, 04:02:19 AM
Upper limit IMO depends on the map size. If everyone would be crammed into one spot it would not be fun, but if the map is big enough with a lot people then it is no problem.
The mapping between quantity and quality is far from an injective function. That's a persistant dogma.
The Morgan Motor Company story is interesting and relevant because it also rejected this universally accepted path and focussed on smaller size, quality and, in that case, traditional values in spite of severe criticism from industrial / analytical experts that they would not survive without modernisation and expansion. In 1990 they were told by a famous expert in a televised documentary that they were doomed. Guess what, their waiting list is over 3 years per order, they still use hand tools and some of their jigs date back to the 1930s :old:
Perhaps Aces High is just (nearly, at the moment) the right size and quality too.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 21, 2017, 05:28:25 PM
nugetx also doesn't factor into the resources and cost for HTC that it would take to put the game on Steam. He doesn't take into consideration that HTC would have to develop and support two different versions of AH. Patches/updates would have to be created for the non-Steam and the Steam version and there is also the factor of accounts. Players would not be able to migrate their non-Steam version of AH to the Steam version, if they wanted to play on the Steam version the player would have to create a brand new account, losing years of progress (perks, achievements, etc) in the process.
It is not as simple as throwing the game on Steam and then expect the masses to roll in through the door.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: BuckShot on May 22, 2017, 12:10:00 AM
Steampunk!
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 22, 2017, 12:23:07 AM
nugetx also doesn't factor into the resources and cost for HTC that it would take to put the game on Steam. He doesn't take into consideration that HTC would have to develop and support two different versions of AH.
I'm aware of that, however while the main game is done, I don't think the cost for maintaining the Steam version is that much compared to potential new customers profit.
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Patches/updates would have to be created for the non-Steam and the Steam version and there is also the factor of accounts. Players would not be able to migrate their non-Steam version of AH to the Steam version, if they wanted to play on the Steam version the player would have to create a brand new account
If players can play together, there is no real need for current players to migrate to Steam. Steam is to draw in new players and/or ease of life enhancements. Unless HTC would make it so, so you can play with your account on steam, which I think is possible also.
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It is not as simple as throwing the game on Steam and then expect the masses to roll in through the door.
It is not, but then again it is ;).
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 22, 2017, 01:28:31 AM
I'm aware of that, however while the main game is done, I don't think the cost for maintaining the Steam version is that much compared to potential new customers profit.
With a small development team, it will most likely be a burden and a drain of resources.
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If players can play together, there is no real need for current players to migrate to Steam. Steam is to draw in new players and/or ease of life enhancements. Unless HTC would make it so, so you can play with your account on steam, which I think is possible also.
It is not, but then again it is ;).
It's not HTC's decision to allow merging of a non-Steam account with a Steam account, it's Valve's. If you have a non-Steam version of the game and want to migrate your account (including all the perks, achievements, etc) over to the Steam version, you can't as per Valve's policy. This I know because I helped on getting two of the online games the studio I work for has on Steam.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Skuzzy on May 22, 2017, 06:16:24 AM
I'm aware of that, however while the main game is done, I don't think the cost for maintaining the Steam version is that much compared to potential new customers profit. <snip.
So we add a million customers at a profit of -x.xx percentage (that's right...minus) per customer. I may not have a degree in economics, but the math on that looks suspect as far as "potential new customer profits" goes.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 22, 2017, 08:01:44 AM
So we add a million customers at a profit of -x.xx percentage (that's right...minus) per customer. I may not have a degree in economics, but the math on that looks suspect as far as "potential new customer profits" goes.
I'm not sure I get it, are you saying that if you put Aces high on steam even with new players you will have -x.xx profit % ? :headscratch:
How is that possible? Shouldn't the sales from the game be higher than what steam takes and other prices combined ?
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: ImADot on May 22, 2017, 08:59:34 AM
Sounds to me like HTC's margin is pretty slim and Steam's cut would be more than that margin.
But if steam takes 30% from sales, so that leaves 70% to developers, are the server running costs higher than what would be from the 70% ? Does steam want more from HTC than 30% ? If yes, then it is understandable, but otherwise the profit should always be +x.xx %
AFAIK there is only one time fee of 90$ to put a game on steam greenlight,
btw steam is removing greenlight in spring and doing something new
'A better path for digital distribution
The next step in these improvements is to establish a new direct sign-up system for developers to put their games on Steam. This new path, which we’re calling “Steam Direct,” is targeted for Spring 2017 and will replace Steam Greenlight. We will ask new developers to complete a set of digital paperwork, personal or company verification, and tax documents similar to the process of applying for a bank account. Once set up, developers will pay a recoupable application fee for each new title they wish to distribute, which is intended to decrease the noise in the submission pipeline.
While we have invested heavily in our content pipeline and personalized store, we’re still debating the publishing fee for Steam Direct. We talked to several developers and studios about an appropriate fee, and they gave us a range of responses from as low as $100 to as high as $5,000. There are pros and cons at either end of the spectrum, so we’d like to gather more feedback before settling on a number.'
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Skuzzy on May 22, 2017, 09:41:01 AM
Steam greenlight has been undergoing changes since its inception. It has been a moving target. They deploy it, then they pull it back. They change it and they change it again.
The registration fee is not the only costs associated with Steam.
nugetx, you really do not know much about running this type of business if you think server costs are all there is to it.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 22, 2017, 09:43:55 AM
But if steam takes 30% from sales, so that leaves 70% to developers, are the server running costs higher than what would be from the 70% ? Does steam want more from HTC than 30% ? If yes, then it is understandable, but otherwise the profit should always be +x.xx % number.'
Good job completely ignoring the fact that there are costs involved. FYI unless HiTech has at least a 30% margin then there are no profits. Economics 101.
What's your ingame handle please?
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: JimmyD3 on May 22, 2017, 08:58:50 PM
Good job completely ignoring the fact that there are costs involved. FYI unless HiTech has at least a 30% margin then there are no profits. Economics 101.
What's your ingame handle please?
"SteamAgent" :D
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: guncrasher on May 22, 2017, 10:24:18 PM
there's at least 7 liquor stores or 711 within 3 blocks of my house that sell visa or mc prepaid cards. you think that would be enough for this guy
semp
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Rodent57 on May 22, 2017, 10:30:07 PM
If you were following this thread, you know that he said he's NOT from around here.
may not have 7/11s
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 23, 2017, 05:52:18 AM
prepaid credit cards are not the standard in different countries, there is no such thing here
Quite true.
By the way, we did put Aces High III on Steam (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=931022855). It was being planned for a couple of months, but we will not do Paysafe.
Still remains to be seen if we stay on Steam.
Personally, I will never load that software on any of my computers.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nugetx on May 23, 2017, 07:08:40 AM
:aok
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: bustr on May 23, 2017, 09:50:07 AM
By the way, we did put Aces High III on Steam (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=931022855). It was being planned for a couple of months, but we will not do Paysafe.
Still remains to be seen if we stay on Steam.
Personally, I will never load that software on any of my computers.
Interesting series of posts here and in the General forum, Skuzzy is Patton, Hitech is Eisenhower and Steam is D-Day.....My compliments to the house. :salute
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It was being planned for a couple of months
Handled well, this can repopulate the game. Just make sure to hang onto the current generation of old vets needed to create the AH magic which is the secret to Aces High.:O
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Ramesis on May 23, 2017, 02:31:55 PM
By the way, we did put Aces High III on Steam (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=931022855). It was being planned for a couple of months, but we will not do Paysafe.
Still remains to be seen if we stay on Steam.
Personally, I will never load that software on any of my computers.
As I will not use paypal :aok
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Skuzzy on May 23, 2017, 02:43:11 PM
I consider that a reasonable thing to do when concerned about security.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: JVboob on May 23, 2017, 06:57:30 PM
I hope we can keep up to date with all this steam stuff. I have steam and there are 2 games ive played the last few years. AH ive played since 2002...I dont want steam to bite us in the ARSE. If there is contingency plan then we will be fine either way. Id like to fly against someone who isnt a vet every once and a while.
AVA use to be busy and it was awesome I hope to see that come back!
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Rodent57 on May 23, 2017, 06:58:47 PM
IF we get more players via Steam, that shouldn't be a bad thing.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Rodent57 on May 23, 2017, 06:59:53 PM
PS If you ever need an easy victim, I'm yer huckleberry!
Proficiency is at a 14 year low right now :-)
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: JVboob on May 23, 2017, 07:14:25 PM
your 14 year low is better than my coming up on 15 year old high...
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: bustr on May 24, 2017, 05:32:12 PM
enVision the first month of AH3 on Steam with all of the new players with no ACM or SA clue to speak of in the MA, flying at you thinking it will be a piu, piu, piu fest and no problemo. Then imagine how your years will look to their 30 day ziltch....... :O
I just hope that multiplied by 200 isn't enough to chase them away.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 25, 2017, 02:31:58 AM
enVision the first month of AH3 on Steam with all of the new players with no ACM or SA clue to speak of in the MA, flying at you thinking it will be a piu, piu, piu fest and no problemo. Then imagine how your years will look to their 30 day ziltch....... :O
I just hope that multiplied by 200 isn't enough to chase them away.
Give it a rest. Heaven forbid that HiTech tries to bring in new players to the game. Instead of whining, why don't you suggest something like a revamp of the training arena, maybe make a newbie arena along the lines that AW had for new players to acclimate themselves before entering the MA. Your incessant whines does not help the game.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: nrshida on May 25, 2017, 04:38:49 AM
I consider that a reasonable thing to do when concerned about security.
Call me paranoid but of course I consider security whenever I use my computers :noid Adding Steam I think will increase that risk :D I have to pick and choose... Steam is not one I would choose :rock
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Skuzzy on May 25, 2017, 03:08:06 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Rodent57 on May 25, 2017, 05:45:24 PM
Call me paranoid but of course I consider security whenever I use my computers :noid Adding Steam I think will increase that risk :D I have to pick and choose... Steam is not one I would choose :rock
Which is why we are glad that we can go direct to source to play the game! If Steam was required, I'd be gone!
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: DubiousKB on May 29, 2017, 11:53:08 AM
Why all this hate for steam?!
All you guys have no problem downloading continuous updates for AcesHigh3 from tiny company that is unknown vs an establish reputable entity such as Steam.
I think the comments were accurate on the greenlight page... it's ALMOST as if the author didn't really care about getting onto steam, more about the ability to shut up paying customers with "I tried!"...
just because it goes onto steam, DOES NOT MEAN, that will be the only login pathway... HTC STATED THIS ALREADY!
yikes... the change is bad crowd need to take their dementia medicine. :bolt:
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: horble on May 29, 2017, 11:59:20 AM
All you guys have no problem downloading continuous updates for AcesHigh3 from tiny company that is unknown vs an establish reputable entity such as Steam.
I think the comments were accurate on the greenlight page... it's ALMOST as if the author didn't really care about getting onto steam, more about the ability to shut up paying customers with "I tried!"...
just because it goes onto steam, DOES NOT MEAN, that will be the only login pathway... HTC STATED THIS ALREADY!
yikes... the change is bad crowd need to take their dementia medicine. :bolt:
The geriatric crowd that hangs around here would rather have the game end than see any change whatsoever.
Most of them are still pissed they've had to update their computer within the last 15 years.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: AAIK on May 29, 2017, 12:00:15 PM
All you guys have no problem downloading continuous updates for AcesHigh3 from tiny company that is unknown vs an establish reputable entity such as Steam.
I think the comments were accurate on the greenlight page... it's ALMOST as if the author didn't really care about getting onto steam, more about the ability to shut up paying customers with "I tried!"...
just because it goes onto steam, DOES NOT MEAN, that will be the only login pathway... HTC STATED THIS ALREADY!
yikes... the change is bad crowd need to take their dementia medicine. :bolt:
This is actually a solid point. Games on steam would have more vetting being done to them vs a lone company, which has no kind of 'police' keeping an eye on them.
Steam has actively removed companies from bad behaviour.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Wiley on May 29, 2017, 12:11:28 PM
Similar reasons to why some people don't go on Facebook. You either choose to let them record what you're doing with the games and what all you've bought, or you don't. I'm not bothered by it, use Steam all the time. Some people are.
This is actually a solid point. Games on steam would have more vetting being done to them vs a lone company, which has no kind of 'police' keeping an eye on them.
Steam has actively removed companies from bad behaviour.
More or less devil's advocating here, but what makes you think you can trust Valve to be all-benevolent?
Wiley.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: DubiousKB on May 29, 2017, 12:26:05 PM
More or less devil's advocating here, but what makes you think you can trust Valve to be all-benevolent? Wiley.
They have much more at stake than HTC.... And the all-mighty dollar Wiley :devil
Not only does steam handle user information and credit cards, but also handles the exchange of money between users and developers... They simply have more at steak in the way of liability than HTC does.
I mean think about this for a second... A TINY company with all of what, 6-10 employees in a small office out of Texas, has the credit card information of all it's users whom trust the source completely and are used to multiple "updates" to their machines. :noid
They have much more at stake than HTC.... And the all-mighty dollar Wiley :devil
Not only does steam handle user information and credit cards, but also handles the exchange of money between users and developers... They simply have more at steak in the way of liability than HTC does.
I mean think about this for a second... A TINY company with all of what, 6-10 employees in a small office out of Texas, has the credit card information of all it's users whom trust the source completely and are used to multiple "updates" to their machines. :noid
All you guys have no problem downloading continuous updates for AcesHigh3 from tiny company that is unknown vs an establish reputable entity such as Steam.
Not unknown to me. I've met Dale and co. face to face. Steam? Not so much.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: guncrasher on May 29, 2017, 04:03:34 PM
you guys seem to forget that by using credit cards you are protecting yourself. any unauthorized charges will be reversed. all it takes is a call or go online. a little bit different than using debit cards or prepaid cards.
semp
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: JimmyD3 on May 29, 2017, 08:55:14 PM
They have much more at stake than HTC.... And the all-mighty dollar Wiley :devil
Not only does steam handle user information and credit cards, but also handles the exchange of money between users and developers... They simply have more at steak in the way of liability than HTC does.
I mean think about this for a second... A TINY company with all of what, 6-10 employees in a small office out of Texas, has the credit card information of all it's users whom trust the source completely and are used to multiple "updates" to their machines. :noid
They have much more at stake than HTC.... And the all-mighty dollar Wiley :devil
Not only does steam handle user information and credit cards, but also handles the exchange of money between users and developers... They simply have more at steak in the way of liability than HTC does.
I mean think about this for a second... A TINY company with all of what, 6-10 employees in a small office out of Texas, has the credit card information of all it's users whom trust the source completely and are used to multiple "updates" to their machines. :noid
Our track record is better than Valve's as it pertains to security.
Would you like a list of the companies, with thousands of employees, who have had their credit card database hacked?
The size of a company is no measure of how secure it is or is not. Our track record speaks for itself.
As far as who has more at stake goes. It all depends on how you measure it. When you have 100 employees doing the same thing, they have a tendency to get complacent about it as it is easier to point fingers at the other person.
When you have one person responsible for any given thing, they have a tendency to be more mindful as there is no place to hide.
Our track record is better than Valve's as it pertains to security.
How many instances of players playing the game outside the limits you intended? As in, what IS your track record with respect to hacking players and/or security? .... Since it's such a good record, it would seem you wouldn't mind sharing it publicly... :cool: I always wondered how many times players like *He-who-shall-not-be-named* has been blocked/banned....
Not unknown to me. I've met Dale and co. face to face. Steam? Not so much.
I'm trying to play devils advocate, everyone on this board quickly forgets what it's like to NOT to be a part of the AcesHigh community and what it's like coming into this game "blind".... As in how did you find this game?
Steam IS THE NEXT LOGICAL STEP TO INTRODUCE THE GAME TO A LARGE AUDIENCE.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: DubiousKB on May 30, 2017, 10:02:06 AM
Sure.... HTC is a billionaire with more assets/employees than Valve... :bhead
What I was trying to point out but didn't articulate well in my last post was, sure, Valve is big. People still deal with PSN in spite of multiple hacks. The large companies, especially one as diverse as Valve can weather a little bad publicity here and there if something like that happens.
It could be said that a small company has more at stake because a smaller incident can completely cripple them.
How many instances of players playing the game outside the limits you intended? As in, what IS your track record with respect to hacking players and/or security? .... Since it's such a good record, it would seem you wouldn't mind sharing it publicly... :cool: I always wondered how many times players like *He-who-shall-not-be-named* has been blocked/banned....
Sorry, what on earth does some pud circumventing an IP ban have to do with security of customer information?
Wiley.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: ImADot on May 30, 2017, 10:09:14 AM
How many instances of players playing the game outside the limits you intended? As in, what IS your track record with respect to hacking players and/or security? .... Since it's such a good record, it would seem you wouldn't mind sharing it publicly... :cool: I always wondered how many times players like *He-who-shall-not-be-named* has been blocked/banned....
I'm pretty sure this part of the conversation revolves around the security of customer payment data. And I'm pretty sure HTC is more vested in this type of security than Valve/Steam, being HTC is a small shop. Their reputation and relatively small pool of income would not survive a data breach the likes of what we've seen in the news lately.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: DubiousKB on May 30, 2017, 10:16:24 AM
It could be said that a small company has more at stake because a smaller incident can completely cripple them.
Sorry, what on earth does some pud circumventing an IP ban have to do with security of customer information?
Wiley.
Fair point on the first; smaller could mean more at risk, but I was thinking in terms of the total assets etc.... I'd be able to pull more money out of valve with a lawsuit than if one "ruined" HTC and co....
as far as credit card security goes, I'm sure HTC and co. are just as hardcore as anyone else using this system.. I mean I know personally they have never missed charging my card, so 10/10 securley taking my $$$ :neener:
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Wiley on May 30, 2017, 10:19:42 AM
Fair point on the first; smaller could mean more at risk, but I was thinking in terms of the total assets etc.... I'd be able to pull more money out of valve with a lawsuit than if one "ruined" HTC and co.
Yeah, at which point they'd pay you out, put out a boilerplate press release saying, "It's ok! We fixed it.", buy one less ivory back scratcher and continue business as usual.
Wiley.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: popeye on May 30, 2017, 10:27:42 AM
I'm sure HTC credit card info is very secure. I just don't understand the code: "GRAGGANMORE", on the statement.
:D
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Skuzzy on May 30, 2017, 12:37:53 PM
We have never had one bit of a customers data compromised, in the 18 years we have been around. We have never had a customer data breech.
Valve had their entire source code compromised and has had security issues with their customer database.
You are the one implying a small company cannot be as secure as a large company in spite of the fact many, many large companies have been compromised.
Quote
A TINY company with all of what, 6-10 employees in a small office out of Texas, has the credit card information of all it's users whom trust the source completely and are used to multiple "updates" to their machines.
What do you have to back that up with?
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 30, 2017, 12:58:10 PM
you guys seem to forget that by using credit cards you are protecting yourself. any unauthorized charges will be reversed. all it takes is a call or go online. a little bit different than using debit cards or prepaid cards.
semp
Do you know who has to eat the fees for charge backs? Hint...It's not Steam, the bank or the customer.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: hitech on May 30, 2017, 01:08:33 PM
The term MMORPG was coined by Richard Garriott, the creator of Ultima Online, in 1997.[20] The term probably derives from "MMOG", which can be traced back to the 1995 E3 Convention, when Dale Addink used it to describe Confirmed Kill.[citation needed]
I tip my hat to you sir. Very cool.
Title: Re: A perspective from a new player on payment/player numbers
Post by: hitech on May 30, 2017, 01:31:28 PM